Re: Re: tobacco

[Guest guest]

Well I'm certainly not saying tobacco isn't bad for you, like I said. I do

believe someone's health could be shot to hell from smoking cigarettes,

however, that is still smoking a hell of a lot more than " tobacco. " I

suspect that all the myriad chemicals most cigarettes are loaded with are

responsible for *at least half* of all the health effects. I smoked for a

couple years and quit, and my physical withdrawal symptoms were awful, I'd

just fall asleep randomly in the middle of the day, I felt achy and

incapacitated, headaches, etc. I made it twelve days. I quit again a year

later, but I'd been smoking American Spirits all-natural cigarettes for

almost a year, and the withdrawal symptoms weren't half as bad, even though

I'd been smoking for longer.

Then there are others like how much does one smoke. And I bet people would

smoke less if cigarettes weren't laden with ammonia to enhance the addictive

effects of nicotene.

After the San, a tribal people in the Kalahari dessert, had some contact with

modern civilization folks coming through, they took up smoking cigarettes.

They remained hunter-gatherers, retained their life-style of working on

average 2 hours a day (can you imagine?) and retained their diet, etc. Now I

don't know how much they smoked or what kind of access to cigarettes they

actually had, but they apparently loved cigarettes... still, they were free

of tooth decay, heart disease, high blood pressure, etc. They were

vulnerable to several diseases they came in contact through contact with

modern folks, but other than that, they were pretty free of health problems.

Everybody's different and I'm sure have varying degrees of potential to be

harmed by smoking, but it does seem to me to be, for most people, a bit down

below sugar and pufa's on the harm list.

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

Quoting Stanley <johnny_tesla@...>:

>

> > Does anyone else here think the dangers of tobacco use are

> > overrated?

>

> As an ex-smoker whose health was shot to hell from tobacco, I'd say

> no, the dangers of tobacco aren't the least bit overrated.

Was it really shot to hell from tobacco, or was it shot to hell from your

diet? Or perhaps from some synergistic combination of the two?

--

Berg

bberg@...

[Guest guest]

Chris-

>but it does seem to me to be, for most people, a bit down

>below sugar and pufa's on the harm list.

Perhaps, but it's hard to separate them since all such harmful substances

potentiate each other. Eat a perfect diet and some sugar won't do you much

harm. Eat a perfect diet and smoke some tobacco and maybe you'll be

relatively OK. Put them together and maybe you're not so OK. Not to

mention that our soil is in such bad shape that nobody has the nutritional

wherewithal of early healthy smokers, and that virtually everyone is at

least second-generation depleted.

-

[Guest guest]

>

> > Does anyone else here think the dangers of tobacco use are

>overrated?

My grandfather smoked ... his claim was that if you " rolled your own " they

were ok, mainly because he felt the tobacco companies added a lot

of junk to the cigarettes (wow, prescient wasn't he? Or maybe he could

taste it). He also felt that a cigarette should go out if you didn't puff on

it. Anyway, his tobacco smelt good and we didn't mind it -- most cigarettes,

on the other hand, are nauseating IMO. He did die of heart disease, but

he never had lung problems. However, if you roll your own you also aren't

likely to smoke a pack a day. It was more an after-dinner habit, one or two

a day.

>

Heidi S

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/18/03 11:06:53 PM Eastern Standard Time,

johnny_tesla@... writes:

> You raise an important point. When I was smoking Marlboro reds I

> simply could not quit. A friend suggested I switch to American

> Spirits, which I did. After I had been smoking them for a few days I

> sparked up a Marlboro and got dizzy. And after a few weeks on

> American Spirits I was able to quit cold turkey. I was only miserable

> for about a day and a half.

Right, and like Heidi said, even though I wasn't rolling my own, I still

smoked a lot less because without the chemicals in the paper they burned so

much slower. It wouldn't go out if I didn't puff on it, but it wouldn't

*burn* if I didn't, as opposed to a Marlboro Red for example, which would be

gone in 2 minutes if you left it in the ash tray.

> In any event, when I was smoking I'd wake up every day coughing,

> hacking, and wheezing like I was at death's door, and I'm pretty sure

> the undiagnosable arthritis-like condition in my joints and

> connective tissues that started a while after I began smoking again

> was caused by smoking. After I quit smoking the pain episodes slowly

> became less frequent, and they went away completely after about three

> years.

Right... no doubt smoking can kill your health. It does depend on a lot of

factors though. It especially causes vitamin deficiencies, and especially in

localized areas, increases your risk of oxidization, severely decreases

oxygenation of tissue, etc. There are so many factors in diet and lifestyle

that determine whether your body can handle this stress but like said

most people in our society at least will suffer from it.

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/19/03 12:16:33 PM Eastern Standard Time,

bberg@... writes:

> Does that really amount to smoking less? On the one hand, you're smoking

> fewer cigarettes, but on the other hand, you're doing more actual smoking

> per cigarette, because they don't smoke themselves while they're sitting in

> the ash trays.

I don't think so. I think the amount a person smoke's is usually to fill

their psychological satisfaction, which is higher than their actual physical

need for nicotine. When you take a drag off of a slow-burning cigarette, I

believe you would be inhaling less smoke per given amount of air that you

inhale. In my own experience and that of people around me, people who

smoke(d) American Sprits are/were more likely to a)at times smoke a half a

cigarette and save the other half for later, b)throw the cigarette away when

there was say, an inch, inch and a half left, rather than smoke it almost to

the filter, and c)smoke less total cigarettes per day.

My guess is that the reason for this is the one I pointed out above: that the

psychological satisfaction is reached by drags taken and lenth of time spent

smoking, while phsycial need for nicotine is always exceeded because it is a

small amount, and therefore the psychological satisfaction is reached with

American Sprits with less total smoke inhaled, and also the fact that there

are many addictive and addiction-enhancing elements added to other cigarettes

that increase the need for nicotine/cigarettes throughout the day.

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/19/03 1:35:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,

johnny_tesla@... writes:

> I went through phases of rolling my own with Jester cigarette

> tobacco, and I smoked just as much and was just as wheezy in the

> morning. I have no idea if there were fewer chemicals/additives in

> the Jester, but without filters, those cigarettes packed a punch.

There is a couple companies that sell chemical-free rolling tobacco, but most

are just as bad as pre-rolled. Mc and American Sprits, I think, are

two chemical free ones. The rest are probably *worse*, as you said, with no

filters.

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: <ChrisMasterjohn@...>

> Right, and like Heidi said, even though I wasn't rolling my own, I still

> smoked a lot less because without the chemicals in the paper they burned

so

> much slower. It wouldn't go out if I didn't puff on it, but it wouldn't

> *burn* if I didn't, as opposed to a Marlboro Red for example, which would

be

> gone in 2 minutes if you left it in the ash tray.

Does that really amount to smoking less? On the one hand, you're smoking

fewer cigarettes, but on the other hand, you're doing more actual smoking

per cigarette, because they don't smoke themselves while they're sitting in

the ash trays.

[Guest guest]

At 01:43 PM 3/19/03 -0500, you wrote:

>There is a couple companies that sell chemical-free rolling tobacco, but

most

>are just as bad as pre-rolled.  Mc and American Sprits, I think, are

>two chemical free ones.  The rest are probably *worse*, as you said, with no

>filters.

>

>Chris

We smoke American Spirit handrolled here. Hubby has to do the rolling as I

can't rotate my thumb due to almost cutting my right hand off when Iwas in the

3rd grade. Few years back in a poor winter it was either give up buying packs

for me of American Spirit, have organic tobacco too or join him with

handrolled. I smoke half to a third of what I did with the filters. Its not a

pleasant habit. For me its more keeping my hands busy. They do go out on their

own and smoking half I do often. The papers that come with the tobacco are

better quality than the paper used in any filter cigarette.

The war on tobacco was begun by Al Gore whose sister died young of lung cancer

attributed to smoking. They were also brought up on a farm that grew tobacco

IIRC. If thats not right what immediately came to me on the crop that was

grown

was that it is a heavily pesticide sprayed crop.

Having some Native American ancestry here's my observation. I've met few

Native

Americans who don't smoke and know its extremely high in use on reservations

too. Tobacco was and still is a sacred ceremonial plant to Native Americans.

Whats sold commercially originated south of the U.S. How much tobacco you had

and grew determined wealth especially among the founding fathers of this

country before there was currency.Like anything moderation is advised. I find

it interesting that with most Native Americans smoking that diabetes and heart

disease, both food linked diseases are the biggest killers.

Personally I will do a great, big happy dance on the day that its admitted and

warning labels appear on the air, earth, water and food wherever they have

been

altered from their natural state to a source of profit with no thought of

result to health.

Can only hope. :-)

Wanita