gluten and starch (was raw eggs?)

[Guest guest]

>>>>>I've already addressed part of this elsewhere, but again, you're

mischaracterizing her theory. I'm not arguing that there's no such thing

as an immune response to gluten -- or to egg protein or casein or beef

proteins for that matter. And obviously that response plays a role in the

disease condition once the sensitivity is created, and obviously people

will reduce their symptoms by avoiding proteins they've become sensitive

to. So somebody who has bowel disease and has become sensitive to, say,

beef, obviously has to avoid beef like the plague for awhile, until the gut

is healed. Similarly, somebody who has become sensitive to gluten will

take care of some symptoms by avoiding gluten. But the root microbe

problem will not be addressed as long as there are substantial fuel-sources

in the diet for those microbes, and in fact countless people have tried to

modify the SCD by trying gluten-free carb foods, and they've only gotten

somewhat better, and generally only for some time.

------>well, here is another data point to add to this discussion...there is

a somewhat breed-specific disease, most common in Irish Setters, called

" gluten-sensitive enteropathy. " it's closest parallel in humans is celiacs

disease. typical age of onset is between *4-7 months.* the following info is

from " the waltham book of clinical nutrition of the dog and cat " :

in dogs with this disease...

--there's some indirect evidence for " proximal small intestine disease

including low serum and red cell folate

--but culture of duodenal juice shows no sign of small intestine bacterial

overgrowth

--most common signs of GSE are atrophied villi and " increased epithelial

lymphocytes "

--earlier studies showed a connection between dietary wheat and damaged gut

and suggested there might be " an underlying permeability disorder "

--challenge studies have been done on dogs with the disease, and when wheat

was removed from the diet, intraepithileal lymphocytes and height of villi

returned to normal, and compared to control dogs, gut permeability

decreased, although remained elevated compared to the control group (the

authors write that this further suggests an underlying gut permeability

disorder). a repeated gluten challenge resulted in a relapse, and in typical

outward symptoms of diarrhea and weight loss. (they don't say whether they

fed *isolated gluten* or *wheat*, though.)

this may not add anything significant to the discussion, but i thought i'd

toss it out there anyway. it seems that 4 months of age is awfully young to

have developed a damaged gut from a poor diet, or bacterial overgrowth (and

they report they *didn't* find bacterial overgrowth in the small intestine),

so i'm wondering if there's some genetically-influenced propensity for a

'less than optimal gut' in certain breeds, as well as some humans? or if

breeds originating in areas where wheat is not indigenous (i.e. Ireland)

just don't have the proper equipment to digest wheat gluten? or....something

else?

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

Suze-

>--but culture of duodenal juice shows no sign of small intestine bacterial

>overgrowth

Based on what standards? The dogs used as a baseline were no doubt modern

dogs fed dog food -- which is stuffed with grains to make it cheaper and

more profitable, and which will result in a much higher intestinal bacteria

population.

And to borrow information from human " science " , I've read papers in which

all kinds of nonsensical standards for bacterial populations are touted;

for example, gas production due to bacterial fermentation in the colon is

regarded as a positive -- the more farting the healthier the person!

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