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Re: low carb bone loss?

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Quoting Evely <je@...>:

> http://www2.ajkd.org/scripts/om.dll/serve?

action=searchDB & searchDBfor=art & artType=abs & id=a34504 & nav=abs

I'd have to see the full text to comment further, but there's no useful

information in the abstract. What is a " low-carbohydrate, high-protein

diet? " How much protein? What kind? Were the diets deficient in any

micronutrients? What about fat? What, if anything, do these short term

results tell us about long-term effects of such a diet? Until these

questions are answered, you can't make any practical recommendations based

on this study.

--

Berg

bberg@...

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><http://www2.ajkd.org/scripts/om.dll/serve?action=searchDB & searchDBfor=art & ar>h\

ttp://www2.ajkd.org/scripts/om.dll/serve?action=searchDB & searchDBfor=art & artType\

=abs & id=a34504 & nav=abs

Consumption of an LCHP diet for 6 weeks delivers a marked acid load to the

kidney, increases the risk for stone formation, decreases estimated calcium

balance, and may increase the risk for bone loss. © 2002 by the National

Kidney Foundation, Inc.

This is pretty much what I've consistently read. If you eat a high-meat

diet, you need lots of calcium. BUT -- if you eat lots of calcium with the

meat, it results in net bone GAIN:

http://www.chiroweb.com/archives/20/23/03.html

Results of the group who received the calcium and vitamin - D supplements

were as follows: The low-protein group lost bone density (but less than the

low-protein placebo group). The medium and high-protein groups gained bone

density, and there was a linear correlation between the amount of total

bone mineral density gain and protein ingested. In this case, the higher

the dietary protein (animal or vegetable), the greater the bone gain.

========

I'd expect our ancestors ate lots of leafy greens and gnawed bones or drank

milk or whatever -- but those paleo folks ate mainly meat and they had nice

strong bones.

Heidi S

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In a message dated 3/21/03 9:23:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,

bberg@... writes:

> I'd have to see the full text to comment further, but there's no useful

> information in the abstract. What is a " low-carbohydrate, high-protein

> diet? " How much protein? What kind? Were the diets deficient in any

> micronutrients? What about fat? What, if anything, do these short term

> results tell us about long-term effects of such a diet? Until these

> questions are answered, you can't make any practical recommendations based

> on this study.

I don't have time to read the abstract right now, but it is pretty well

accepted that an immediate change to a low-carb diet can cause temporary

calcium loss, but it usually only lasts about 2 weeks.

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

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>>>>>>This is pretty much what I've consistently read. If you eat a

high-meat

diet, you need lots of calcium.

-----><lightbulb goes on over head> aha! i wonder if that's why dogs have a

higher requirement for calcium than humans, since they are carnivores and

evolved on an LCHP diet??? (although i wonder if it was more LCHP than paleo

diets?)

i also wonder if primal dieters make an effort to eat more calcium?

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

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In a message dated 3/22/03 4:23:04 PM Eastern Standard Time,

heidis@... writes:

> >This ties in with something I've been wondering about for awhile: should we

> >consider eating some of the crumbly bones that are left after making

> >stock? Some of the bones stay hard, but some have enough protein sucked

> >into the stock that they're basically dust waiting to happen, and I can

> >crush them to powder in my mouth with the greatest of ease.

> >

> >-

>

> I've thought about that too. I even gnawed on one. Tastes pretty good.

> Seems like we should at least blend them up or bury them in the garden.

I've been wondering about this also. The one concern I have is the lectins.

Apparently the stuff you skim off the stock is full of lectins and some

" undesirable " proteins. For this reason it seems that, at least for many

people (and I don't know how to know if I'm one of them) should probably not

eat *raw* bones, and I have no idea if simmering in the water would

completely neutralize this problem, or if there are still substantial lectins

and other things in the bones that would cause problems.

Any idea?

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

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>

>i also wonder if primal dieters make an effort to eat more calcium?

I've read feces studies (really old feces!) from " primal dieters " and basically

I don't think they *worked* at getting calcium -- their feces were

full of things like feathers, tiny bones, grit. So much " filler " that

in fact there was some discussion of tooth wear from grit and bones.

Probably not on purpose, but if you don't have a kitchen counter

it is pretty hard to get a nice clean sliced steak. Much easier to

put a small animal on a spit and roast it, hair and all, or eat it

raw.

Now, most of that would just pass through the intestines, but

at least some of the calcium would leach out in that highly

acidic stomach we have, I'd think. They gnawed on bones too,

cracked them open to get the marrow, which dogs seem to do

a lot too. At least some of the sand they swallowed likely contained

shell particles, which would also contribute some calcium (I feed

the chickens crushed oyster shells, which does wonders for their

eggs!).

I was on a " nature tour " , living on a boat with an expert in Indian

foods, and he pointed out the foods the Indians ate on the islands

we were visiting. And of course I had to try them! We went to tide

pools and collected snails, roasted seaweed. Whole snails (even sans shell)

are full of calcium, and seaweed I think is too. Now the Koreans and

Japanese eat these little whole dried fish too, complete with bones,

and I'd guess something like that was part of an ancient diet too (I

think a lot of cultures do the " dried fish " thing -- it is really easy

and they are rather tasty). Also I think pretty much everyone ate

bugs, with the shell, which also have to be full of calcium I think.

No one knows when fermentation really started either, but a lot

of ferments use meat, bones/shell and all. Like the fermented

caterpillars someone mentioned earlier. The calcium would leach

out into the acidic ferment.

So maybe it comes down to a " whole foods " issue -- in our culture

we eat meat, but we don't swallow the bones, hair, scales, grit,

and we don't eat whole bugs, shrimp, snails, oysters etc. much.

I don't think it is easy to get enough calcium from greens though,

so I take a calcium supplement and eat my anchovies. Someday

I'll start putting " whole foods " into my kimchi too (I tried the

anchovies, but those little anchovy eyes disconcerted the

other diners at my table!).

Heidi S

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Heidi-

>Now, most of that would just pass through the intestines, but

>at least some of the calcium would leach out in that highly

>acidic stomach we have, I'd think.

This ties in with something I've been wondering about for awhile: should we

consider eating some of the crumbly bones that are left after making

stock? Some of the bones stay hard, but some have enough protein sucked

into the stock that they're basically dust waiting to happen, and I can

crush them to powder in my mouth with the greatest of ease.

-

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>This ties in with something I've been wondering about for awhile: should we

>consider eating some of the crumbly bones that are left after making

>stock? Some of the bones stay hard, but some have enough protein sucked

>into the stock that they're basically dust waiting to happen, and I can

>crush them to powder in my mouth with the greatest of ease.

>

>-

I've thought about that too. I even gnawed on one. Tastes pretty good.

Seems like we should at least blend them up or bury them in the garden.

>

Heidi S

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Chris-

Generally speaking, I think the lectin concern, at least as popularized by

D'Adamo, is a crock. The degree it's genuine for any given person is the

degree to which that person's intestinal lining has become compromised, so

if you're eating healthily, I think it's safe to completely ignore his

advice -- which you'll have to do in order to eat healthily.

Also, traditional cultures did at least eat _some_ bones, in some kinds of

fish for example, and dogs do best when given raw bones to eat along with

their raw meat, so I guess the question is how close are we to dogs in that

respect? And will cooking the bone for many hours to make stock impair the

calcium (and other mineral) availability?

I've been getting bone-in lamb stew meat lately, and when I cook it

overnight in a crockpot it forms a nice thick stock and some of the bones

become porous and easy to chew and eat. I've been eating them without any

apparent ill effects so far, but I am wondering.

>The one concern I have is the lectins.

>Apparently the stuff you skim off the stock is full of lectins and some

> " undesirable " proteins. For this reason it seems that, at least for many

>people (and I don't know how to know if I'm one of them) should probably not

>eat *raw* bones, and I have no idea if simmering in the water would

>completely neutralize this problem, or if there are still substantial lectins

>and other things in the bones that would cause problems.

-

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>I've been wondering about this also. The one concern I have is the lectins.

>Apparently the stuff you skim off the stock is full of lectins and some

> " undesirable " proteins.

I can't see how the stuff you skim would be substantially different from

the stuff in the broth. Lectins are in EVERYTHING, and most of them

don't seem to be problematic -- there are tons of them in shrimp too.

Anyway, I just keep track of my reactions -- if my stomach cramps

up and I " have to go " after a meal, it's likely my body did not like

what was in that thing.

Heidi S

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Well, according to Pottenger, cooked bone is limited in mineral

availability. He would make his own bone meal from raw femur bones

dried at a very low temp if I remember correctly. I've grated raw

bone to put in smoothies before (weird, huh?) and have also thought

about eating the stock bones. But I would say that raw is better

from a nutritional standpoint and probably digestability too.

Becky

> Also, traditional cultures did at least eat _some_ bones, in some

kinds of

> fish for example, and dogs do best when given raw bones to eat

along with

> their raw meat, so I guess the question is how close are we to dogs

in that

> respect? And will cooking the bone for many hours to make stock

impair the

> calcium (and other mineral) availability?

>

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In a message dated 3/22/03 9:12:36 PM Eastern Standard Time,

beckymauldin@... writes:

> Well, according to Pottenger, cooked bone is limited in mineral

> availability. He would make his own bone meal from raw femur bones

> dried at a very low temp if I remember correctly. I've grated raw

> bone to put in smoothies before (weird, huh?) and have also thought

> about eating the stock bones. But I would say that raw is better

> from a nutritional standpoint and probably digestability too.

Hi Becky,

Where can I get directions on how to make " bone meal " ? In one of Pottenger's

books? If it's simple could you explain it? Or, for that matter, elaborate

a tiny bit on how you consume raw bones? Do you use femur bones? What do

you grate it with, just a regular grater you'd use for carrots? How much

should one consume at once? Since it is raw, is there concerns with

bacteria or anything, and should one only use high-quality pastured bones, or

is it safe to use grain-finished stuff?

Thanks,

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

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>>>>Where can I get directions on how to make " bone meal " ? In one of

Pottenger's

books? If it's simple could you explain it? Or, for that matter, elaborate

a tiny bit on how you consume raw bones? Do you use femur bones? What do

you grate it with, just a regular grater you'd use for carrots? How much

should one consume at once? Since it is raw, is there concerns with

bacteria or anything, and should one only use high-quality pastured bones,

or

is it safe to use grain-finished stuff?

------>apparently some tribe in somalia made raw bone powder from fermented

bone. martha posted details from a book she had, on beyondprice last year.

they first fermented the bones for something like 3 days (or was it 3

weeks?) in a large vat of water. then, i think they dried the bones, then

pounded them into powder. I wonder if people in other parts of the world

have historically harvested bone in a similar fashioned?

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

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This is taken from one of Pottenger's articles I got from Price-

Pottenger, called, The Importance of a Vital, High Protein Diet in

the Treatment of Tuberculosis and Allied Conditions.

He fed his patients 4 grams of raw bone meal each day.

" The raw bone meal is used because we have found that the heat

treated bone meal is not readily assimilable. Finely ground bone

meal is easily chewed into a gelatinous-like substance and it affords

an excellent source of calcium. The femur of the steer ground at low

temperatures is used as a source of bone marrow. "

This article is very interesting. I have only used the bone a few

times and it was from a grassfed animal. I just grated frozen bone

with a fine grater and added it to my liver tonic smoothie...It does

not even taste like anything.

Becky

> In a message dated 3/22/03 9:12:36 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> beckymauldin@h... writes:

>

> > Well, according to Pottenger, cooked bone is limited in mineral

> > availability. He would make his own bone meal from raw femur

bones

> > dried at a very low temp if I remember correctly. I've grated

raw

> > bone to put in smoothies before (weird, huh?) and have also

thought

> > about eating the stock bones. But I would say that raw is

better

> > from a nutritional standpoint and probably digestability too.

>

> Hi Becky,

>

> Where can I get directions on how to make " bone meal " ? In one of

Pottenger's

> books? If it's simple could you explain it? Or, for that matter,

elaborate

> a tiny bit on how you consume raw bones? Do you use femur bones?

What do

> you grate it with, just a regular grater you'd use for carrots?

How much

> should one consume at once? Since it is raw, is there concerns

with

> bacteria or anything, and should one only use high-quality pastured

bones, or

> is it safe to use grain-finished stuff?

>

> Thanks,

> Chris

>

> ____

>

> " What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion?

It is a

> heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings,

birds, and

> animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the

sight of

> them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and

intense

> compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them

unable to

> bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any

creature.

> Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for

enemies of the

> truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

>

> --Saint Isaac the Syrian

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why not just use gelatin

----- Original Message -----

From: <ChrisMasterjohn@...>

< >

Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 2:49 AM

Subject: Re: Re: low carb bone loss?

> In a message dated 3/22/03 9:12:36 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> beckymauldin@... writes:

>

> > Well, according to Pottenger, cooked bone is limited in mineral

> > availability. He would make his own bone meal from raw femur bones

> > dried at a very low temp if I remember correctly. I've grated raw

> > bone to put in smoothies before (weird, huh?) and have also thought

> > about eating the stock bones. But I would say that raw is better

> > from a nutritional standpoint and probably digestability too.

>

> Hi Becky,

>

> Where can I get directions on how to make " bone meal " ? In one of

Pottenger's

> books? If it's simple could you explain it? Or, for that matter,

elaborate

> a tiny bit on how you consume raw bones? Do you use femur bones? What do

> you grate it with, just a regular grater you'd use for carrots? How much

> should one consume at once? Since it is raw, is there concerns with

> bacteria or anything, and should one only use high-quality pastured bones,

or

> is it safe to use grain-finished stuff?

>

> Thanks,

> Chris

>

> ____

>

> " What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

> heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds,

and

> animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight

of

> them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

> compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

> bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

> Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of

the

> truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

>

> --Saint Isaac the Syrian

>

>

>

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In a message dated 3/24/03 9:21:21 AM Eastern Standard Time,

beckymauldin@... writes:

> This is taken from one of Pottenger's articles I got from Price-

> Pottenger, called, The Importance of a Vital, High Protein Diet in

> the Treatment of Tuberculosis and Allied Conditions.

>

> He fed his patients 4 grams of raw bone meal each day.

>

> " The raw bone meal is used because we have found that the heat

> treated bone meal is not readily assimilable. Finely ground bone

> meal is easily chewed into a gelatinous-like substance and it affords

> an excellent source of calcium. The femur of the steer ground at low

> temperatures is used as a source of bone marrow. "

>

> This article is very interesting. I have only used the bone a few

> times and it was from a grassfed animal. I just grated frozen bone

> with a fine grater and added it to my liver tonic smoothie...It does

> not even taste like anything.

Thanks Becky. Do you use egg shells also? Is there any level egg shells

must be ground to to avoid danger of choking? It seems they would be sharp,

which is the only thing that makes me reluctant.

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

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In a message dated 3/24/03 6:49:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, irene@...

writes:

> I don't use egg shells because I heard that they are coated with mineral

> oil. I suppose if you get your eggs directly from the farmer that would

not

> be the case.

Really? Is this true with only industrially produced factory farmed eggs or

even the higher quality super market organic eggs? I got 14 eggs today from

my boss, so they aren't coated. Boy, they were a little tough going down. I

tried dissolving them in water, but they didn't dissolve well. then I tried

putting them in my mouth with a spoon and chasing them down with water, but

it was kind of tough to get them out from the front of my mouth. A little

effort though and they go fine ;-)

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

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In a message dated 3/24/03 7:41:34 PM Eastern Standard Time,

bberg@... writes:

> I believe that you can dissolve egg shells in vinegar. That's what we're

> talking about right?

No, that's easy. I ground 3 egg shells in a coffee grinder and ate them.

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

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>>>>Thanks Becky. Do you use egg shells also? Is there any level egg

shells

must be ground to to avoid danger of choking? It seems they would be sharp,

which is the only thing that makes me reluctant.

---->not to worry at all chris...i've been grinding eggshells for about 3

years for my 9 lb. dogs. I do it in my coffee grinder and it becomes a fine

powder. If the tiny throat of a 9 lber. can handle this powder, so can you

:) also, ground eggshell powder is routinely fed to dogs of all sizes by

(i'd guess) thousands of other dog owners. just be sure to grind it fine.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

-

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I don't use egg shells because I heard that they are coated with mineral

oil. I suppose if you get your eggs directly from the farmer that would not

be the case.

At 03:05 PM 3/24/03, you wrote:

>In a message dated 3/24/03 9:21:21 AM Eastern Standard Time,

>beckymauldin@... writes:

>

> > This is taken from one of Pottenger's articles I got from Price-

> > Pottenger, called, The Importance of a Vital, High Protein Diet in

> > the Treatment of Tuberculosis and Allied Conditions.

> >

> > He fed his patients 4 grams of raw bone meal each day.

> >

> > " The raw bone meal is used because we have found that the heat

> > treated bone meal is not readily assimilable. Finely ground bone

> > meal is easily chewed into a gelatinous-like substance and it affords

> > an excellent source of calcium. The femur of the steer ground at low

> > temperatures is used as a source of bone marrow. "

> >

> > This article is very interesting. I have only used the bone a few

> > times and it was from a grassfed animal. I just grated frozen bone

> > with a fine grater and added it to my liver tonic smoothie...It does

> > not even taste like anything.

>

>Thanks Becky. Do you use egg shells also? Is there any level egg shells

>must be ground to to avoid danger of choking? It seems they would be sharp,

>which is the only thing that makes me reluctant.

>

>Chris

>

>____

>

> " What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

>heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

>animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

>them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

>compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

>bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

>Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

>truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

>

>--Saint Isaac the Syrian

>

>

>Sponsor<http://rd./M=245314.3072841.4397732.2848452/D=egroupweb/S=1705\

060950:HM/A=1495890/R=0/*http://www.netbizideas.com/yheb42>

>

>

>

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>>>>I don't use egg shells because I heard that they are coated with mineral

oil. I suppose if you get your eggs directly from the farmer that would not

be the case.

---->i've heard that as well. I forgot all about it because I get my eggs

directly from the farm.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

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Quoting ChrisMasterjohn@...:

> I got 14 eggs today from my boss, so they aren't coated. Boy,

> they were a little tough going down. I tried dissolving them in

> water, but they didn't dissolve well. then I tried putting them

> in my mouth with a spoon and chasing them down with water, but

> it was kind of tough to get them out from the front of my mouth.

> A little effort though and they go fine ;-)

I believe that you can dissolve egg shells in vinegar. That's what we're

talking about right?

--

Berg

bberg@...

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I get organic valley eggs and they look coated but I don't know that for a

fact.

At 04:01 PM 3/24/03, you wrote:

>In a message dated 3/24/03 6:49:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, irene@...

>writes:

>

> > I don't use egg shells because I heard that they are coated with mineral

> > oil. I suppose if you get your eggs directly from the farmer that would

>not

> > be the case.

>

>Really? Is this true with only industrially produced factory farmed eggs or

>even the higher quality super market organic eggs? I got 14 eggs today from

>my boss, so they aren't coated. Boy, they were a little tough going down. I

>tried dissolving them in water, but they didn't dissolve well. then I tried

>putting them in my mouth with a spoon and chasing them down with water, but

>it was kind of tough to get them out from the front of my mouth. A little

>effort though and they go fine ;-)

>

>Chris

>

>____

>

> " What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

>heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

>animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

>them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

>compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

>bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

>Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

>truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

>

>--Saint Isaac the Syrian

>

>

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Quoting ChrisMasterjohn@...:

> In a message dated 3/24/03 7:41:34 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> bberg@... writes:

>

> > I believe that you can dissolve egg shells in vinegar. That's what

> we're

> > talking about right?

>

> No, that's easy. I ground 3 egg shells in a coffee grinder and ate them.

But you said that you had trouble dissolving them in water. If water won't

do the job, why not use vinegar?

--

Berg

bberg@...

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In a message dated 3/24/03 9:27:26 PM Eastern Standard Time,

bberg@... writes:

> But you said that you had trouble dissolving them in water. If water won't

> do the job, why not use vinegar?

Oh, do you mean powdered egg shells will form a solution with vinegar? If

you meant that, I didn't realize that and will try it. I thought you were

referring to soaking the egg shells in vinegar for a few days. Well, I am on

an anti-candida diet so technically shouldn't be having vinegar... I'll try

it when I'm off I guess.

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

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