Re: anti-science sentiment in the US

[Guest guest]

And yet how many of these fundamentalists will reach for the aspirin when they have a headache or race to an emergency room when their children are sick?Lee <jackalope_lepus@...> wrote: The growing influence of fundamentalist Christians in the Bush administration and their challenge to science represented by "intelligent design", which holds that the Darwinian theory of evolution is fatally flawed, indicates the rising tide of anti-science sentiment in the US. Resurgence of such religious fundamentalism has been throttling the voice of rational quest in the country that has played a leading role in science and technology in the post-World War II era. No wonder, in the past five years the US scientific community has often been at odds with the Bush administration over issues as diverse

as stem cell research, global warming and ozone depletion.And it's not just Christian fundamentalism in the US, but fanaticism in all hues — Islam, Hinduism and even Buddhism — have been posing a threat to science across the world. A rise in literalist religious thinking has devastated science in the Islamic world by promoting the idea that all knowledge could be found in the Quran. According to fundamentalists, anything that goes against the holy book should be ruthlessly rejected. Hindu fundamentalists in India think on the similar line, proposing ancient ideas of astrology from sacred texts like the Vedas. Even Buddhism, usually considered the least militant among all major religions, has had its crazed fundamentalists (sects like Aum Shinrikyo that carried poisonous gas attacks in Tokyo) who strongly object to foetal stem-cell research because it involves destruction of life. What has been the driving force

behind the growth of irrational belief systems? And why is it hellbent on overthrowing free-thinking promoted by science? The problem lies in the success of science in the last few decades. Modern society, which undermines most of the traditional uncertainties of life, is essentially based on science. Scientific explanations based on empirical evidence — rather than `revealed truth' — have replaced religious notions in many people's minds. Science has asserted that human beings are not at all special — and nothing more than a speck of dust — in the huge cosmos. And birth and death of an individual human being are too insignificant events in the entire scheme. Above all, the basic tenet of science rejects infalliblity of sacred texts. It inspires individuals — irrespective of caste, creed or religion — to critically examine any established idea.So, threatened by the secular rationalism promoted by science,

fundamentalists wish to revive an era of medieval dogmas when no one questioned religious doctrines. And the more they are threatened, the more rabid they turn against science — their most dangerous enemy. http://www.telegraphindia.com/1051107/asp/knowhow/story_5434790.asp

Never place a period where God has placed a comma. - Gracie

[Guest guest]

If this is going to turn into a bashing of Bush/Christians/Fundamentalists/Creationists/aspirin users & anything thing else you are "anti" on, I am going to unsubscribe.

I really thought I might have found a site that actually had some intelligent discussion & information on the subject at hand, as opposed to radicals (which by the way, can include the above) of any ilk just having to express their personal opinions (always negative) instead of sticking to the subject.

Every single group I have ever been in does the same exact thing. Things start to deteriorate because people just HAVE TO express negative opinions & really tick off people trying to get a perspective on the subject the group is supposed to discuss.

Please don't bother responding with some snide/cute/obscene remark because you will not get an argument from me in return.

My concern is trying to figure out with all the information, if/when the Avian Flu hits & intelligent, common sense responses to it.

Sunny

-- Re: [Flu] anti-science sentiment in the US

And yet how many of these fundamentalists will reach for the aspirin when they have a headache or race to an emergency room when their children are sick?Lee <jackalope_lepus@...> wrote: The growing influence of fundamentalist Christians in the Bush administration and their challenge to science represented by "intelligent design", which holds that the Darwinian theory of evolution is fatally flawed, indicates the rising tide of anti-science sentiment in the US. Resurgence of such religious fundamentalism has been throttling the voice of rational quest in the country that has played a leading role in science and technology in the post-World War II era. No wonder, in the past five years the US scientific community has often been at odds with the Bush administration over issues as diverse as stem cell research, global warming and ozone depletion.And it's not just Christian fundamentalism in the US, but fanaticism in all hues — Islam, Hinduism and even Buddhism — have been posing a threat to science across the world. A rise in literalist religious thinking has devastated science in the Islamic world by promoting the idea that all knowledge could be found in the Quran. According to fundamentalists, anything that goes against the holy book should be ruthlessly rejected. Hindu fundamentalists in India think on the similar line, proposing ancient ideas of astrology from sacred texts like the Vedas. Even Buddhism, usually considered the least militant among all major religions, has had its crazed fundamentalists (sects like Aum Shinrikyo that carried poisonous gas attacks in Tokyo) who strongly object to foetal stem-cell research because it involves destruction of life. What has been the driving force behind the growth of irrational belief systems? And why is it hellbent on overthrowing free-thinking promoted by science? The problem lies in the success of science in the last few decades. Modern society, which undermines most of the traditional uncertainties of life, is essentially based on science. Scientific explanations based on empirical evidence — rather than `revealed truth' — have replaced religious notions in many people's minds. Science has asserted that human beings are not at all special — and nothing more than a speck of dust — in the huge cosmos. And birth and death of an individual human being are too insignificant events in the entire scheme. Above all, the basic tenet of science rejects infalliblity of sacred texts. It inspires individuals — irrespective of caste, creed or religion — to critically examine any established idea.So, threatened by the secular rationalism promoted by science, fundamentalists wish to revive an era of medieval dogmas when no one questioned religious doctrines. And the more they are threatened, the more rabid they turn against science — their most dangerous enemy. http://www.telegraphindia.com/1051107/asp/knowhow/story_5434790.asp

Never place a period where God has placed a comma. - Gracie

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your feedback, Sunny. It sometimes does happen that we get a little off track, but for the most part we try to keep on topic as best we can; and when we do get off track we usually notice it and get back to the subject at hand pretty quickly. Sunny <sunnyt747@...> wrote: If this is going to turn into a bashing of Bush/Christians/Fundamentalists/Creationists/aspirin users & anything thing else you are "anti" on, I am going to unsubscribe. I really thought I might have found a site that actually had some intelligent discussion & information on the subject at hand, as opposed to radicals (which by the way, can include the above) of any ilk just having to express their personal opinions (always negative) instead of sticking to the subject. Every single group I have ever been in does the same exact thing. Things start to deteriorate because people just HAVE TO express negative opinions & really tick off people trying to get a perspective on the subject the group

is supposed to discuss. Please don't bother responding with some snide/cute/obscene remark because you will not get an argument from me in return. My concern is trying to figure out with all the information, if/when the Avian Flu hits & intelligent, common sense responses to it. Sunny -- Re:

[Flu] anti-science sentiment in the US And yet how many of these fundamentalists will reach for the aspirin when they have a headache or race to an emergency room when their children are sick?Lee <jackalope_lepus@...> wrote: The growing influence of fundamentalist Christians in the Bush administration and their challenge to science represented by "intelligent design", which holds that the Darwinian theory of evolution is fatally flawed, indicates the rising tide of anti-science sentiment in the US. Resurgence of such religious fundamentalism has been throttling the voice of rational quest in the country that has played a leading role in science and technology in the post-World War II era. No wonder, in the past five years the US scientific

community has often been at odds with the Bush administration over issues as diverse as stem cell research, global warming and ozone depletion.And it's not just Christian fundamentalism in the US, but fanaticism in all hues — Islam, Hinduism and even Buddhism — have been posing a threat to science across the world. A rise in literalist religious thinking has devastated science in the Islamic world by promoting the idea that all knowledge could be found in the Quran. According to fundamentalists, anything that goes against the holy book should be ruthlessly rejected. Hindu fundamentalists in India think on the similar line, proposing ancient ideas of astrology from sacred texts like the Vedas. Even Buddhism, usually considered the least militant among all major religions, has had its crazed fundamentalists (sects like Aum Shinrikyo that carried poisonous gas attacks in Tokyo) who strongly object to foetal stem-cell research

because it involves destruction of life. What has been the driving force behind the growth of irrational belief systems? And why is it hellbent on overthrowing free-thinking promoted by science? The problem lies in the success of science in the last few decades. Modern society, which undermines most of the traditional uncertainties of life, is essentially based on science. Scientific explanations based on empirical evidence — rather than `revealed truth' — have replaced religious notions in many people's minds. Science has asserted that human beings are not at all special — and nothing more than a speck of dust — in the huge cosmos. And birth and death of an individual human being are too insignificant events in the entire scheme. Above all, the basic tenet of science rejects infalliblity of sacred texts. It inspires individuals — irrespective of caste, creed or religion — to critically examine any established

idea.So, threatened by the secular rationalism promoted by science, fundamentalists wish to revive an era of medieval dogmas when no one questioned religious doctrines. And the more they are threatened, the more rabid they turn against science — their most dangerous enemy. http://www.telegraphindia.com/1051107/asp/knowhow/story_5434790.asp Never place a period where God has placed a comma. - Gracie

Never place a period where God has placed a comma. - Gracie

[Guest guest]

Hi and Sunny, This site is not about bashing, but the

relationship between government and science is certainly relevant to

this discussion. Further, as Council on Foreign Relations fellow

Laurie Garrett asked: " How can the current Administration understand

the evolution of a virus when it does not believe in evolution? "

Nevertheless, while this topic is not off-track, it is a topic that we

will rarely go into because it does not come up that often. But do not

expect that I will avoid posting an item like this when I come across

it so as to spare feelings.

What interested me most about this item is the source: it is from The

Telegraph: but not The Telegraph in England, but the one in India. I

thought it was interesting that the Indians perceive an anti-science

sentiment in the USA. Does anyone here read India Indian newspapers

with any frequency? Do you have any favorites? I do not often surf

Indian newspapers and would appreciate any information.

Now, Sunny, why do you object to bashing? Do you think it unfair to

bash the Bush/Fundamentalists/Creationists because it is so easy to do?

My own view on this is simply that the advancement of science is too

important to permit any interference with it on the part of theology of

of theology inspired politics. Science has almost eliminated Smallpox

and would have eliminated Polio but for superstitious Muslim who

refused vaccination. Some have even dared to hope that the coming flu

pandemic will be the last one in human history because science will

find a way to eliminate flu. Science must go forward unhindered.

> If this is going to turn into a bashing of

Bush/Christians/Fundamentalists/Creationists/aspirin users & anything

thing else you are " anti " on, I am going to unsubscribe.

[Guest guest]

Prosecutors stay busy with cases of Christian Scientist or other

religious parents who fail to do just that. Then their child dies and

they are prosecuted. These cases are always very sad.

>

> And yet how many of these fundamentalists will reach for the aspirin

when they have a headache or race to an emergency room when their

children are sick?

[Guest guest]

Hi Sunny, We can skip the discussion if you like, but you will find

in our site FILES under BOOK REVIEWS three book reviews of a book

entitled the Republican War on Science. You will also want to take a

look at Bruce B. Lawrence's book " Defender's of God: the

Fundamentalist Revolt Against the Modern Age " (1989, Harper & Row).

My comments on fundamentalism were not extreme but were right on

target and in line with current academic theory.

If you doubt that government can do some things to protect us from a

pandemic, you do not know public health law. I recommend that you

read Laurie Garrett's book Betrayal of Trust, which also has a review

posted in our site FILES. The question is: Will we take the public

health steps to exterminate this pandemic when it starts and/or to

stop this pandemic from reaching our shores? Suppose such steps

involved stopping all international flights and shipping? Airlines

and shippers contribute heavily to the political parties. Would the

government be willing to drive them into bankruptcy by shutting them

down for six months? On 9/11 when the WTC/Pentagon were attacked,

the Feds grounded ALL air traffic. Would they be willing to do that

for six months to let keep a worldwide flu pandemic out of the USA?

Do not pull your 401K's and convert to gold. Instead, look in our

site files under economics to see what the experts recommend. If you

must convert then perhaps Swiss Francs would be worth considering,

altho I do not really see why you would bother. I would not worry

about economic chaos, but roving gangs are a concern because so many

police and military will get sick and their first priority will be

the big cities.

I am not sure what more to say about individual preparation. If

people wish to chat about that on here then that is fine. You can

also try Flu Pandemic Alternative Medicine which may be a bit more

focused on individuals.

As for other flu groups, I know of no other decent ones which is why

I started this group. But my interest is in news analysis. I do not

think that we are being lied to, but I do think that we have to hunt

for the truth and carefully sift information to find it.

Shooting all the birds is not a bad idea. Some have discussed

killing ALL the birds in an infected nation and then starting over

with fresh bird stocks from uninfected nations.

Hope that this answers your post. Thanks, Lee

[Guest guest]

They would do better with WHICH over-the-counter remedies or WHAT

herbal medicinals? Recommendations?

>

> It's important to remember a few things about Tamiflu.

> .. It offers no protection against any kind of flu.

> .. It is not a cure.

> .. It only relieves flu symptoms by a couple of days.

> If people want symptom relief they'd do better with over-the-

counter remedies or their favorite herbal medicinals.

[Guest guest]

I did not realize that your license limited you. That is fine. But you

can tell me which ones you use. Right?

They would do better with WHICH

over-the-counter remedies or WHAT

> herbal medicinals? Recommendations?

[Guest guest]

I have all of those in the medicine chest and have used them, and I do

agree that homemade chicken soup is the best.

>

> I have used Thera-Flu - the kind you dissolve in hot water. It's

lemon flavored. Only moderately effective. I've tried Sudafed, and

its Walgreen's analog Wal-phed. Put me to sleep. I really can't

tolerate those things. Nyquil and Dayquil are only effective for about

2 hours. From personal experience, I really recommend the old-

fashioned therapy: bedrest, lots of fluids, and comfort foods like

homemade chicken soup.