Re: Germs in the School Room

[Guest guest]

what about wearing masks or/and gloves ?

which desinfectants ? Is mere alcohol good ? Are sprays OK or is wiping better ?

about virucidal tissues I found:

http://www.thedenenbergreport.org/article.php?index=506

being sceptical

are there virucidal gloves ?

[Guest guest]

>>

>> what about wearing masks or/and gloves ?

>> which desinfectants ? Is mere alcohol good ? Are sprays OK or is

>wiping

>> better ?

>> are there virucidal gloves ?

>>

>

>The worst places to catch a flu would be in a daycare center,

could this be solved by stricter isolation of ill children ?

In case of more dangerous viruses we would probably do this,

but it might also help to fight colds, if children would

stay at home or avoid sane children when they have a cold.

>hospital, crowded shopping area or any other public gathering place.

>

>10% Bleach solution seems to work well as a disinfectant.

I never heard about using bleach, only alcohol. Is there some study ?

>Gloves may

>work but constant hand sanitizing would be even more effective.

but tedious. E.g. if you go shopping, shouldn't there be

gloves which you get at the entry and lay back at the caisse ?

>I can't imagine masks working for long since breathing into a mask for

>more than 20 minutes gets bothersome and people often develop

>sensations of suffocation and panic. People with breathing difficulty

>in the first place would be even more affected by wearing a face mask.

yes, but you needn't wear it all time.

In some places it could make sense. Buses,subway,

lectures,waiting rooms

>Avoiding human and bird contact may be the only way to go.

you needn't avoid birds yet

>Avoid public places and remain isolated seem to be the best

>countermeasures.

i.e. if you are already infected !

Shouldn't it be illegal to go to public places it you are

infected ?!?

As I read, the cold mainly spreads by contact through hands,

while the flu mainly spreads by breathing.

So this seems to be different

-Guenter

[Guest guest]

->The worst places to catch a flu would be in a daycare center,

or a doctor's waiting room. The risk could be larger than the expectedcure from the doctor ! >> could this be solved by stricter isolation of ill children ?

>This isn't always feasible because some children may not even exhibit >flu symptoms right away, or children could be wrongly diagnosed with >another disease with similiar symptoms (like pneumonia)

yes, so do as good as you can. There are cases where it's obvious,e.g. when already many children have the same symptoms.Let them play in another room or let them stay at home.Has it been tried in a study somewhere ? I estimate it wouldsignificantly reduce infections.

>>10% Bleach solution seems to work well as a disinfectant. >> >> I never heard about using bleach, only alcohol. Is there some study > >Bleach has been known for years to kill bacteria and kill back viruses >Alcohol is not the only sanitizer out there.

but the cheapest, most tested and easily available

>> >Gloves may work but constant hand sanitizing would be even more >effective. >> >> but tedious. E.g. if you go shopping, shouldn't there be >> gloves which you get at the entry and lay back at the caisse ? > >What purpose woul returning infected gloves do? They should be >discarded as HAZMAT right away (when customer leaves store). Although >this may not be very cost effective, it's better than leaving infected >gloves at the cash register.

don't know what HAZMAT is. They could be returned into a clapp-box at thecash-register (or better: the exit) and can be desinfected by juststoring them some days. They could be pulled off automaticallywhich also avoids touching them.You could have them in your house too for telefone,door-knobs,watertap.Imagine small boxes with tissues near doors,telefones...

[Guest guest]

In einer eMail vom 23.11.2005 09:20:44 Westeuropäische Normalzeit schreibt rboylern@...:

>Yep. One part bleach to ten parts water and you've got your germ-killer without >having spend a ton of money on commercial products which aren't as good as they >say they are.

no alcohol at all ?

are you sure it works for rhinoviruses,fluviruses ?

I don't know whether it works for Aids, but flu/cold could be different

[Guest guest]

gauze masks are maybe just not fine enough.

What about these nanomasks ? They claim they can catch the viruses

[Guest guest]

as for alcohol vs. bleech, I remember one study some years ago, which

said that Lysol/alcohol were best for rhinoviruses.

Don't nail me, I don't remember exactly. Some websearch for lysol,rhinovirus

or such could be successful.

[Guest guest]

I found the study . See here:

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=182122Chemical disinfection to interrupt transfer of rhinovirus type 14 from environmental surfaces to hands.S A Sattar, H sen, V S Springthorpe, T M Cusack, and J R RubinoDepartment of Microbiology & Immunology, Faculty of Medicine, University of Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. Abstract Rhinoviruses can survive on environmental surfaces for several hours under ambient conditions. Hands can readily become contaminated after contact with such surfaces, and self-inoculation may lead to infection. Whereas hand washing is crucial in preventing the spread of rhinovirus colds, proper disinfection of environmental surfaces may further reduce rhinovirus transmission. In this study, the capacities of Lysol Disinfectant Spray (0.1% o-phenylphenol and 79% ethanol), a domestic bleach (6% sodium hypochlorite diluted to give 800 ppm of free chlorine), a quaternary ammonium-based product (7.05% quaternary ammonium diluted 1:128 in tap water), and a phenol-based product (14.7% phenol diluted 1:256 in tap water) were compared in interrupting the transfer of rhinovirus type 14 from stainless steel disks to fingerpads of human volunteers upon a 10-s contact at a pressure of 1 kg/cm2. Ten microliters of the virus, suspended in bovine mucin (5 mg/ml), was placed on each disk, and the inoculum was dried under ambient conditions; the input number on each disk ranged from 0.5 x 10(5) to 2.1 x 10(6) PFU. The dried virus was exposed to 20 microliters of the test disinfectant. The Lysol spray was able to reduce virus infectivity by > 99.99% after a contact of either 1 or 10 min, and no detectable virus was transferred to fingerpads from Lysol-treated disks. The bleach (800 ppm of free chlorine) reduced the virus titer by 99.7% after a contact time of 10 min, and again no virus was transferred from the disks treated with it.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)Full text

[Guest guest]

>

> what about wearing masks or/and gloves ?

> which desinfectants ? Is mere alcohol good ? Are sprays OK or is

wiping

> better ?

> are there virucidal gloves ?

>

The worst places to catch a flu would be in a daycare center,

hospital, crowded shopping area or any other public gathering place.

10% Bleach solution seems to work well as a disinfectant. Gloves may

work but constant hand sanitizing would be even more effective. I

can't imagine masks working for long since breathing into a mask for

more than 20 minutes gets bothersome and people often develop

sensations of suffocation and panic. People with breathing difficulty

in the first place would be even more affected by wearing a face mask.

Avoiding human and bird contact may be the only way to go. Avoid

public places and remain isolated seem to be the best countermeasures.

[Guest guest]

->The worst places to catch a flu would be in a daycare center,

>

> could this be solved by stricter isolation of ill children ?

This isn't always feasible because some children may not even exhibit

flu symptoms right away, or children could be wrongly diagnosed with

another disease with similiar symptoms (like pneumonia)

>10% Bleach solution seems to work well as a disinfectant.

>

> I never heard about using bleach, only alcohol. Is there some study

Bleach has been known for years to kill bacteria and kill back viruses

Alcohol is not the only sanitizer out there.

>

> >Gloves may work but constant hand sanitizing would be even more

effective.

>

> but tedious. E.g. if you go shopping, shouldn't there be

> gloves which you get at the entry and lay back at the caisse ?

What purpose woul returning infected gloves do? They should be

discarded as HAZMAT right away (when customer leaves store). Although

this may not be very cost effective, it's better than leaving infected

gloves at the cash register.

>

> >I can't imagine masks working for long since breathing into a mask for

> >more than 20 minutes gets bothersome and people often develop

> >sensations of suffocation and panic. People with breathing difficulty

> >in the first place would be even more affected by wearing a face mask.

>

> yes, but you needn't wear it all time.

> In some places it could make sense. Buses,subway,

> lectures,waiting rooms

>

> >Avoiding human and bird contact may be the only way to go.

>

> you needn't avoid birds yet

>

> >Avoid public places and remain isolated seem to be the best

> >countermeasures.

>

> i.e. if you are already infected !

> Shouldn't it be illegal to go to public places it you are

> infected ?!?

>

>

>

>

> As I read, the cold mainly spreads by contact through hands,

> while the flu mainly spreads by breathing.

> So this seems to be different

>

>

>

> -Guenter

>

[Guest guest]

Really? Only 10%?

10% Bleach solution seems to work well as a disinfectant.

[Guest guest]

Masks are useless because they are so pourous and also because they can actually harbor bacteria because of the moisture that builds up inside them. Gloves? Nope. Kids will not wear them, nor will they wear masks. Common sense hygienic practices work the best of all and it's easy to comply with them. Wiping with a cleam damp paper towel does help, but using a spary is better. The best disinfectant is a solution of one part chlorine bleach and ten parts water. Use it in a spray bottle. Wipe with a clean paper towel. Studies many years ago with the AIDS virus showed the remarkable germ-killing power of this solution. I've never heard of viricidal gloves.sterten@... wrote: what about wearing masks or/and gloves ? which desinfectants ? Is mere alcohol good ? Are sprays OK or is wiping better ? about virucidal tissues I found: http://www.thedenenbergreport.org/article.php?index=506 being sceptical are there virucidal gloves ?

Never place a period where God has placed a comma. - Gracie

[Guest guest]

This is really excellent, . It sure beats developing an allergy

to latex via gloves. Now, any thoughts as to how this 10% bleach

solution compares to Lysol as a disinfectant?

>

> Masks are useless because they are so pourous and also because they

can actually harbor bacteria because of the moisture that builds up

inside them. Gloves? Nope. Kids will not wear them, nor will they

wear masks. Common sense hygienic practices work the best of all and

it's easy to comply with them.

>

> Wiping with a cleam damp paper towel does help, but using a spary

is better. The best disinfectant is a solution of one part chlorine

bleach and ten parts water. Use it in a spray bottle. Wipe with a

clean paper towel. Studies many years ago with the AIDS virus showed

the remarkable germ-killing power of this solution.

[Guest guest]

Neither colds nor the flu are spread by simply breathing. Both are spread very easily by unwashed hands and by uncovered coughs and sneezes. These are respiratory viruses and travel through the air on the vaporized spray in a cough or sneeze. The spray can travel as far as three feet. As to the bleach disinfectant, there were studies done a very long time ago about this but I can't recall them right now. Chlorine bleach has long been known to be a very powerful germ killer. We used a bleach solution to clean counter surfaces in our microbiology lab, and that was some 20 or so years ago. Remember it's 1 part bleach to 10 parts water.sterten@... wrote: >>>> what about wearing masks or/and

gloves ?>> which desinfectants ? Is mere alcohol good ? Are sprays OK or is>wiping >> better ?>> are there virucidal gloves ?>>>>The worst places to catch a flu would be in a daycare center,could this be solved by stricter isolation of ill children ?In case of more dangerous viruses we would probably do this,but it might also help to fight colds, if children wouldstay at home or avoid sane children when they have a cold.>hospital, crowded shopping area or any other public gathering place.>>10% Bleach solution seems to work well as a disinfectant. I never heard about using bleach, only alcohol. Is there some study ?>Gloves may>work but constant hand sanitizing would be even more effective.but tedious. E.g. if you go shopping, shouldn't there be gloves which

you get at the entry and lay back at the caisse ?>I can't imagine masks working for long since breathing into a mask for>more than 20 minutes gets bothersome and people often develop>sensations of suffocation and panic. People with breathing difficulty>in the first place would be even more affected by wearing a face mask.yes, but you needn't wear it all time.In some places it could make sense. Buses,subway,lectures,waiting rooms>Avoiding human and bird contact may be the only way to go.you needn't avoid birds yet>Avoid public places and remain isolated seem to be the best>countermeasures. i.e. if you are already infected !Shouldn't it be illegal to go to public places it you areinfected ?!?As I read, the cold mainly spreads by contact through hands,while the flu mainly spreads

by breathing.So this seems to be different-Guenter

Never place a period where God has placed a comma. - Gracie

[Guest guest]

Respiratory viruses that travel three feet???!!!!!

Fabulous post, . During the 1918 Flu Pandemic, everyone wore

gauze masks. I can see now that they all should have carried bottles

of spray disinfectant. That is clearly the answer.

Suppose a bleach solution of 2 parts bleach to 8 parts water is used?

Does doubling the bleach component add to its power?

These are respiratory viruses [that] travel through the air on the

vaporized spray in a cough or sneeze. The spray can travel as far as

three feet.

>

> As to the bleach disinfectant, there were studies done a very long

time ago about this but I can't recall them right now. Chlorine bleach

has long been known to be a very powerful germ killer. We used a

bleach solution to clean counter surfaces in our microbiology lab, and

that was some 20 or so years ago. Remember it's 1 part bleach to 10

parts water.

[Guest guest]

As to bleach vs. alcohol, I recall this experiment we did in my microbiology lab during my nurse's training. We were told to bring in from home anything we believed to have germ killing power. People brought commercial products like Lysol and Mr. Clean, hydrogen peroxide, bleach, ammonia, alcohol, and someone brought in garlic. Each of us was given a petri dish that had been seeded with a non-pathogenic organism. We put but one drop of whatever we had brought in the center of our dish and put it in the incubator for 24 hours. The results were startling. In the dishes that had been treated with bleach there was only the slightest bacterial growth at the very edge of the dish. Garlic, interestingly enough, came in a hearty second. Alcohol, peroxide and ammonia came it third. The commercial products didn't do well at all.sterten@... wrote: ->The worst places to catch a flu would be in a daycare center, or a doctor's waiting room. The risk could be larger than the expectedcure from the doctor ! >> could this be solved by stricter isolation of ill children ? >This isn't always feasible because some children may not even exhibit >flu symptoms right away, or children could be wrongly diagnosed with >another disease with similiar symptoms (like pneumonia) yes, so do as good as you can. There are cases where it's obvious,e.g. when already many children have the same symptoms.Let them play in another room or let them stay at

home.Has it been tried in a study somewhere ? I estimate it wouldsignificantly reduce infections. >>10% Bleach solution seems to work well as a disinfectant. >> >> I never heard about using bleach, only alcohol. Is there some study > >Bleach has been known for years to kill bacteria and kill back viruses >Alcohol is not the only sanitizer out there. but the cheapest, most tested and easily available >> >Gloves may work but constant hand sanitizing would be even more >effective. >> >> but tedious. E.g. if you go shopping, shouldn't there be >> gloves which you get at the entry and lay back at the caisse ? > >What purpose woul returning infected gloves do? They should

be >discarded as HAZMAT right away (when customer leaves store). Although >this may not be very cost effective, it's better than leaving infected >gloves at the cash register. don't know what HAZMAT is. They could be returned into a clapp-box at thecash-register (or better: the exit) and can be desinfected by juststoring them some days. They could be pulled off automaticallywhich also avoids touching them.You could have them in your house too for telefone,door-knobs,watertap.Imagine small boxes with tissues near doors,telefones...

Never place a period where God has placed a comma. - Gracie

[Guest guest]

Yep. One part bleach to ten parts water and you've got your germ-killer without having spend a ton of money on commercial products which aren't as good as they say they are.Lee <jackalope_lepus@...> wrote: Really? Only 10%?10% Bleach solution seems to work well as a disinfectant.

Never place a period where God has placed a comma. - Gracie

[Guest guest]

The 10% bleach beats Lysol by a mile, and you don't have that yukky Lysol smell in the air; plus you save a gang of money.Lee <jackalope_lepus@...> wrote: This is really excellent, . It sure beats developing an allergy to latex via gloves. Now, any thoughts as to how this 10% bleach solution compares to Lysol as a disinfectant?>> Masks are useless because they are so pourous and also because they can actually harbor bacteria because of the moisture that builds up inside them. Gloves? Nope. Kids will not wear them, nor will they wear masks. Common sense hygienic practices work the best of all and it's easy to comply with them.>

> Wiping with a cleam damp paper towel does help, but using a spary is better. The best disinfectant is a solution of one part chlorine bleach and ten parts water. Use it in a spray bottle. Wipe with a clean paper towel. Studies many years ago with the AIDS virus showed the remarkable germ-killing power of this solution.

Never place a period where God has placed a comma. - Gracie

[Guest guest]

Thanks very much. I checked my copy of " Clean and Simple: A Back to

Basics Approach to Cleaning Your Home " by Halvorson and

M. Sheldon but found no mention of this. Good book, but they

were into cleaning but not disinfecting.

>

> Yep. One part bleach to ten parts water and you've got your germ-

killer without having spend a ton of money on commercial products which

aren't as good as they say they are.

[Guest guest]

I appreciate this more than you know. I have been battling sinus

infections for the last few years and had just got Lysol to begin

spraying my A/c and furnace with it. This bleach solution sounds like

it will do much better.

After I spray the bleach solution, do I need to rinse the area with

plain water from a second spray bottle?

>

> The 10% bleach beats Lysol by a mile, and you don't have that yukky

Lysol smell in the air; plus you save a gang of money.

[Guest guest]

Doubling the strength makes the solution too strong since it will leave a decided residue of chlorine on a surface. One to ten, that's it. Yes, respiratory viruses can travel that far. It all depends on how forceful the sneeze or the cough is.Lee <jackalope_lepus@...> wrote: Respiratory viruses that travel three feet???!!!!!Fabulous post, . During the 1918 Flu Pandemic, everyone wore gauze masks. I can see now that they all should have carried bottles of spray disinfectant. That is clearly the answer.Suppose a bleach solution of 2 parts bleach to 8 parts water is used? Does doubling the bleach component add to its power?These are respiratory viruses [that]

travel through the air on the vaporized spray in a cough or sneeze. The spray can travel as far as three feet.> > As to the bleach disinfectant, there were studies done a very long time ago about this but I can't recall them right now. Chlorine bleach has long been known to be a very powerful germ killer. We used a bleach solution to clean counter surfaces in our microbiology lab, and that was some 20 or so years ago. Remember it's 1 part bleach to 10 parts water.

Never place a period where God has placed a comma. - Gracie

[Guest guest]

Never add alcohol to bleach. It creates a highly toxic gas that could cause great harm. The 1 to 10 bleach solution works for all viruses, including the AIDS virus, flu, rhinoviruses. It's the best thing around.sterten@... wrote: In einer eMail vom 23.11.2005 09:20:44 Westeuropäische Normalzeit schreibt rboylern@...: >Yep. One part bleach to ten parts water and you've got your germ-killer without >having spend a ton of money on commercial products which aren't as good as they >say they are. no alcohol at all ? are you sure it works for rhinoviruses,fluviruses ? I don't know whether it works for Aids, but flu/cold could be different

Never place a period where God has placed a comma. - Gracie

[Guest guest]

No rinsing required. Just spray the area lightly and wipe dry with clean paper towels. Caveat to all: Don't use the bleach solution on wood surfaces. Chlorine and wood just don't mix at all. I don't know what to recommend for wood surfaces. Frequent dusting and wiping down with a damp (not wet) cloth is just about all I can think of.Lee <jackalope_lepus@...> wrote: I appreciate this more than you know. I have been battling sinus infections for the last few years and had just got Lysol to begin spraying my A/c and furnace with it. This bleach solution sounds like it will do much better.After I spray the bleach solution, do I need to rinse the area with plain water from a second spray bottle?>> The 10% bleach beats Lysol by a mile, and you don't have that yukky Lysol smell in the air; plus you save a gang of money.

Never place a period where God has placed a comma. - Gracie

[Guest guest]

Applause for finding the study! So I must spray an area and then wait

for the virus on the surface to die? I would prefer something that

kills a bit quicker, but I guess there is nothing.

Chemical disinfection to interrupt transfer of rhinovirus type 14 from

environmental surfaces to hands.

S A Sattar, H sen, V S Springthorpe, T M Cusack, and J R Rubino

Department of Microbiology & Immunology, Faculty of Medicine,

University of Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.

The Lysol spray was able to reduce virus infectivity by > 99.99% after

a contact of either 1 or 10 min, and no detectable virus was

transferred to fingerpads from Lysol-treated disks. The bleach (800 ppm

of free chlorine) reduced the virus titer by 99.7% after a contact time

of 10 min, and again no virus was transferred from the disks treated

with it.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=182122

[Guest guest]

A very interesting article. One thing that makes me wonder about the objectivity of the investigation. One of the investigator's was associated to L & F Products, the makers of Lysol. Just thought I'd mention it.sterten@... wrote: I found the study . See here: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=182122Chemical disinfection to interrupt transfer of rhinovirus type 14 from environmental surfaces to hands.S A Sattar, H sen, V S Springthorpe, T M Cusack, and J R RubinoDepartment of Microbiology & Immunology, Faculty of Medicine, University of

Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. Abstract Rhinoviruses can survive on environmental surfaces for several hours under ambient conditions. Hands can readily become contaminated after contact with such surfaces, and self-inoculation may lead to infection. Whereas hand washing is crucial in preventing the spread of rhinovirus colds, proper disinfection of environmental surfaces may further reduce rhinovirus transmission. In this study, the capacities of Lysol Disinfectant Spray (0.1% o-phenylphenol and 79% ethanol), a domestic bleach (6% sodium hypochlorite diluted to give 800 ppm of free chlorine), a quaternary ammonium-based product (7.05% quaternary ammonium diluted 1:128 in tap water), and a phenol-based product (14.7% phenol diluted 1:256 in tap water) were compared in interrupting the transfer of rhinovirus type 14 from stainless steel disks to fingerpads of human volunteers upon a 10-s contact at a pressure of 1 kg/cm2. Ten microliters of the virus, suspended in bovine

mucin (5 mg/ml), was placed on each disk, and the inoculum was dried under ambient conditions; the input number on each disk ranged from 0.5 x 10(5) to 2.1 x 10(6) PFU. The dried virus was exposed to 20 microliters of the test disinfectant. The Lysol spray was able to reduce virus infectivity by > 99.99% after a contact of either 1 or 10 min, and no detectable virus was transferred to fingerpads from Lysol-treated disks. The bleach (800 ppm of free chlorine) reduced the virus titer by 99.7% after a contact time of 10 min, and again no virus was transferred from the disks treated with it.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)Full text

Never place a period where God has placed a comma. - Gracie

[Guest guest]

Wonderful. Rinsing was a major nuisance.

I don't know how to disinfect a wood surface either, but if it does not

disinfect, then that is a good reason to pitch it. I suppose one might

try garlic...

>

> No rinsing required. Just spray the area lightly and wipe dry with

clean paper towels.

>

> Caveat to all: Don't use the bleach solution on wood surfaces.

Chlorine and wood just don't mix at all. I don't know what to

recommend for wood surfaces. Frequent dusting and wiping down with a

damp (not wet) cloth is just about all I can think of.