Re: Too Much Salt in My Sauerkraut?

[Guest guest]

> I received my Harsch crock yesterday and set about making my first

> batch of kraut today. The directions that came with the crock call

> for about 2.5 grams of salt per kg of cabbage, which is more than

the

> traditional 3TBS per 5 lbs. I used 3TBS per 5lbs, and ended up

> putting about 7TBS of salt in the crock with about 12 lbs of

> cabbage. I tasted the stuff before I sealed the jar, and it was

> REALLY salty--I never tasted kraut that salty before. I never even

> noticed kraut had salt in it, actually. Does the lactic acid

somehow

> obscure the salt taste? Has anybody made sauerkraut and noticed

that

> it tastes really salty before fermentation and OK after? Thanks!

I use 5 level Tbsp of salt per 10 lbs cabbage, and it tastes perfect

to me. I tried a batch with only 3 Tbsp instead of 5, and it had an

off taste, as if the low salt allowed a different spectrum of

beasties to work on it. And, in storage, that low-salt batch would

get slimy on the surface very quickly, and I'd have to keep scraping

off and throwing away the top layer. My advice to you is to reduce

the salt from 3T/5lbs to 2.5T/5lbs.

[Guest guest]

While I have never lacto fermented saeurkraut, I have done a few others in NT

such as apple butter and pickles. I have noticed they are very salty. Has

anyone else noticed this? Could the salt be significantly reduced or even

eliminated, especially with the addition of whey? Any suggestions would be

appreciated.

thanks

danny

Creek Bend Dairy Farm

Harry & Peggy Strite

11917 Snug Harbor Lane

port, MD 21795

301-582-4135

cbdfarm@...

----- Original Message -----

From: Price

Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 4:18 AM

Subject: Too Much Salt in My Sauerkraut?

I received my Harsch crock yesterday and set about making my first

batch of kraut today. The directions that came with the crock call

for about 2.5 grams of salt per kg of cabbage, which is more than the

traditional 3TBS per 5 lbs. I used 3TBS per 5lbs, and ended up

putting about 7TBS of salt in the crock with about 12 lbs of

cabbage. I tasted the stuff before I sealed the jar, and it was

REALLY salty--I never tasted kraut that salty before. I never even

noticed kraut had salt in it, actually. Does the lactic acid somehow

obscure the salt taste? Has anybody made sauerkraut and noticed that

it tastes really salty before fermentation and OK after? Thanks!

DJ

[Guest guest]

> While I have never lacto fermented saeurkraut, I have done a few

> others in NT such as apple butter and pickles. I have noticed

> they are very salty. Has anyone else noticed this? Could the

> salt be significantly reduced or even eliminated, especially with

> the addition of whey?

Before I got my Harsch crock I would ferment cabbage with little or

no salt in a glass cookie jar using either kefir whey or kefir

grains. For more on kefirkraut, see:

http://users.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefirkraut.html

Kefirkraut is good stuff, but it does have a different taste than

traditional sauerkraut. Personally, I much prefer sauerkraut, so I

bought a Harsch crock so I could make it myself and eat it raw.

[Guest guest]

>Does the lactic acid somehow

>obscure the salt taste? Has anybody made sauerkraut and noticed that

>it tastes really salty before fermentation and OK after?

If it is too salty for you, you can rinse it before you use it.

I've used the Harsch recommendations and it didn't seem

very salty though. Using too *little* salt can be a problem,

unless you use whey, because the " bad critters " can grow

and throw off the taste.

Heidi S

[Guest guest]

>While I have never lacto fermented saeurkraut, I have done a few others in

>NT such as apple butter and pickles. I have noticed they are very

>salty. Has anyone else noticed this? Could the salt be significantly

>reduced or even eliminated, especially with the addition of whey? Any

>suggestions would be appreciated.

>thanks

>danny

The Koreans reduce the salt by adding red pepper. Basically you are dealing

with " desirable " vs. " undesirable " bacteria, and adding vinegar, pepper,

ginger, sugar, and likely other spices really help in this area. Adding

whey might help too. My latest batch uses ground up salted shrimp as an

" additive " . The Korean recipes really work well for me though, never slimy,

moldy, and they keep forever in the fridge. Using Napa cabbage and daikon

radish helps too -- they are just more forgiving and maybe have better

bacteria built in.

Heidi S

[Guest guest]

Heidi,

could you share YOUR kimchi recipe?

I make kimchi more like a salad as we eat it at less than a day old, made with a

little rice vinegar and some cold pressed sesame oil.

TIA

Dedy

----- Original Message -----

From: Heidi Schuppenhauer

Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 4:33 PM

Subject: Re: Too Much Salt in My Sauerkraut?

>While I have never lacto fermented saeurkraut, I have done a few others in

>NT such as apple butter and pickles. I have noticed they are very

>salty. Has anyone else noticed this? Could the salt be significantly

>reduced or even eliminated, especially with the addition of whey? Any

>suggestions would be appreciated.

>thanks

>danny

The Koreans reduce the salt by adding red pepper. Basically you are dealing

with " desirable " vs. " undesirable " bacteria, and adding vinegar, pepper,

ginger, sugar, and likely other spices really help in this area. Adding

whey might help too. My latest batch uses ground up salted shrimp as an

" additive " . The Korean recipes really work well for me though, never slimy,

moldy, and they keep forever in the fridge. Using Napa cabbage and daikon

radish helps too -- they are just more forgiving and maybe have better

bacteria built in.

Heidi S

[Guest guest]

Heidi,

could you share YOUR kimchi recipe?

I make kimchi more like a salad as we eat it at less than a day old, made with a

little rice vinegar and some cold pressed sesame oil.

TIA

Dedy

----- Original Message -----

From: Heidi Schuppenhauer

Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 4:33 PM

Subject: Re: Too Much Salt in My Sauerkraut?

>While I have never lacto fermented saeurkraut, I have done a few others in

>NT such as apple butter and pickles. I have noticed they are very

>salty. Has anyone else noticed this? Could the salt be significantly

>reduced or even eliminated, especially with the addition of whey? Any

>suggestions would be appreciated.

>thanks

>danny

The Koreans reduce the salt by adding red pepper. Basically you are dealing

with " desirable " vs. " undesirable " bacteria, and adding vinegar, pepper,

ginger, sugar, and likely other spices really help in this area. Adding

whey might help too. My latest batch uses ground up salted shrimp as an

" additive " . The Korean recipes really work well for me though, never slimy,

moldy, and they keep forever in the fridge. Using Napa cabbage and daikon

radish helps too -- they are just more forgiving and maybe have better

bacteria built in.

Heidi S

[Guest guest]

>Heidi,

>could you share YOUR kimchi recipe?

>I make kimchi more like a salad as we eat it at less than a day old, made

>with a little rice vinegar and some cold pressed sesame oil.

>TIA

>Dedy

That sounds good too. I think the Japanese version is not old at all --

sometimes I eat the 'mixings' before they've fermented. Salted napa is real

good on it's own!

I don't really have a recipe. I sort of adopted some of the principles from

" Kimchi, a Korean health food " . But it goes something like this:

1. Dump a cup of sea salt in a big bowl.

2. Add a napa cabbage or two, in quarters. Fill with water, let it set a

few hours or a day.

3. Next day, chop some: Diakon radish (with leaves! That's the best part),

grated carrot, broccoli, ginger, garlic (lots), and whatever else suits

your fancy. The amounts vary -- I like it to look colorful.

4. Dump about a cup of " salted shrimp " in the blender and blend. These look

like baby shrimp, come in a jar in the fridge section of a Korean store.

You could use dried ones, I'd guess.

5. Add to the shrimp: salt (maybe 1 Tbls), some sugar, Korean red pepper

(more like paprika, not as hot as cayenne). Add some juice from the last

batch of kimchi.

6. Drain and rinse the cabbage, chop it up, add everything, mix. But

reserve a few leaves for the next step.

7. Put it in the Harsch crock, pound it with a dowel. Add water if needed.

Cover with a couple of leaves from the cabbage.

8. Add the stones, add water if needed, add some salt on top.

I usually am pretty liberal with the water, because the kimchi " juice "

makes a great flavoring agent for cooking. I keep the juice separate in a

jar. When you add water, you are supposed to add 2 T salt per quart of

water, but at this point I wing it.

I let it go 3 days or so, then put it in smaller jars. It takes a week or

so in the fridge to really get tasting good.

You can add raw fish too, and oysters, which makes the calcium content

rather high.

Mine has been getting spicier and spicier, but you don't have to make it

all that spicy.

I don't measure the salt -- if it tastes kind of sweet-salty then it's

ready to ferment. Adding the kimchi juice from the last batch helps prevent

mold (it adds acid) and gets it started quicker, I think.

I've been told you should use the kimchi in cooking (like stir fry, or

grill it (???)) if it gets too sour, it is supposed to be crunchy and not

too sour. The more salt you use, the less sour it gets.

Heidi S

[Guest guest]

Good morning Heidi, [yes, it's 9 am here in London]

thanks for the recipe... sounds good to me... never used the daikon leaves but

then they always chop them off here even at the Chinese supermarket... I can get

dried shrimp powder in the same place, might give it a try soon... how about

using some fish sauce?....

BTW - Napa cabbage is called 'Chinese leaf' here... have a look at -

http://asiarecipe.com/asianveg.html good info, incl. pics and recipes.

Dedy

----- Original Message -----

From: Heidi Schuppenhauer

Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 8:03 AM

Subject: Re: Too Much Salt in My Sauerkraut?

>Heidi,

>could you share YOUR kimchi recipe?

>I make kimchi more like a salad as we eat it at less than a day old, made

>with a little rice vinegar and some cold pressed sesame oil.

>TIA

>Dedy

That sounds good too. I think the Japanese version is not old at all --

sometimes I eat the 'mixings' before they've fermented. Salted napa is real

good on it's own!

I don't really have a recipe. I sort of adopted some of the principles from

" Kimchi, a Korean health food " . But it goes something like this:

1. Dump a cup of sea salt in a big bowl.

2. Add a napa cabbage or two, in quarters. Fill with water, let it set a

few hours or a day.

3. Next day, chop some: Diakon radish (with leaves! That's the best part),

grated carrot, broccoli, ginger, garlic (lots), and whatever else suits

your fancy. The amounts vary -- I like it to look colorful.

4. Dump about a cup of " salted shrimp " in the blender and blend. These look

like baby shrimp, come in a jar in the fridge section of a Korean store.

You could use dried ones, I'd guess.

5. Add to the shrimp: salt (maybe 1 Tbls), some sugar, Korean red pepper

(more like paprika, not as hot as cayenne). Add some juice from the last

batch of kimchi.

6. Drain and rinse the cabbage, chop it up, add everything, mix. But

reserve a few leaves for the next step.

7. Put it in the Harsch crock, pound it with a dowel. Add water if needed.

Cover with a couple of leaves from the cabbage.

8. Add the stones, add water if needed, add some salt on top.

I usually am pretty liberal with the water, because the kimchi " juice "

makes a great flavoring agent for cooking. I keep the juice separate in a

jar. When you add water, you are supposed to add 2 T salt per quart of

water, but at this point I wing it.

I let it go 3 days or so, then put it in smaller jars. It takes a week or

so in the fridge to really get tasting good.

You can add raw fish too, and oysters, which makes the calcium content

rather high.

Mine has been getting spicier and spicier, but you don't have to make it

all that spicy.

I don't measure the salt -- if it tastes kind of sweet-salty then it's

ready to ferment. Adding the kimchi juice from the last batch helps prevent

mold (it adds acid) and gets it started quicker, I think.

I've been told you should use the kimchi in cooking (like stir fry, or

grill it (???)) if it gets too sour, it is supposed to be crunchy and not

too sour. The more salt you use, the less sour it gets.

Heidi S

[Guest guest]

At 09:08 AM 3/6/2003 +0000, you wrote:

>Good morning Heidi, [yes, it's 9 am here in London]

>thanks for the recipe... sounds good to me... never used the daikon leaves

>but then they always chop them off here even at the Chinese supermarket...

>I can get dried shrimp powder in the same place, might give it a try

>soon... how about using some fish sauce?....

Sure, fish sauce is great. It IS hard to get diakon leaves, they sure don't

*look* edible. Plain radishes are sometimes sold with the leaves though,

and they work too. Mainly they just taste good and keep their crunch.

Fish sauce is great. Ground up whole anchovies are supposed to be good too.

You can also add apples and pears (Asian pears are supposed to be good),

chestnuts, pinenuts, seseme seeds.

Heidi S

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/6/03 4:38:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jopollack2001@... writes:

> Maybe it's just a normal part of the fermenting process that others

> haven't noticed cos they have the patience to wait until a food is

> properly fermented! lol! :-)

I think it is mostly a difference in taste for salt. Were you on previously

on a no-salt or low-salt diet? I've noticed that many people on this list

have mentioned a problem with the salty taste of l-f foods, and others have

never noticed. Given that this list is largely made up of people who have

experimented with a variety of different diets that either didn't fix their

health problems, made them worse, or caused them, quite a few vegetarians for

example, there are probably a lot of salt-free people, another common fad.

I've never noticed a salty taste, but I've always eaten salty food.

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

To the person asking about salty sauerkraut - I'm a novice at

fermenting. I have just made ginger carrots which only had a little

salt in them. I have just tasted a little moouthful and they were

disgustingly salty!

Also had a slightly soapy taste to them (is that indicative of an

alkaline substance?)

Maybe it's just a normal part of the fermenting process that others

haven't noticed cos they have the patience to wait until a food is

properly fermented! lol! :-)

Jo