Re: coconut oil and eczema

[Guest guest]

Hi

I use 1 T of coconut oil and 1/3 can of coconut milk every day in a

fresh milk shake. I also use it on my face afer rinsing it with warm

water, morning and night. Occasionaly I use it on my hands if they

feel dry.

I also think beet kvass has helped get rid of my eczema. It is easy

to make.

This is the first year I have had any eczema on my face, but before

this I had a lot on my legs, arms and back. It was awful itchy for a

while, but the worst of it has disappeared. I attribute these positve

changes to the coconut oil, more raw proteins(eggs), raw dairy and

healthy fats. Not swimming in the local pool also helped.

I have been trying to get my Omega 6 to Omega 3 into a better balance

for about two years. I seem to finally be having results worth

mentioning. One of the best changes is my lack of allergy

symptoms.They used to start in January, the same time of year the

eczema would appear in force,however this year they are not with me.

It will be interesting to see how I do when the pollen really hits

the air.

According to Enig the therapudic dose of coconut oil is 3 1/2 T

a day. I can't aford that much just now, but hope to take more in the

future. I like the taste of it.

No white or other color coating on my tongue. I think that would be a

sign of poor digestion. Right? Poor digestion will mess with our

health in every possible way as I'm sure you know. It has taken me a

few years to get my digestion improved. It can be done, and when it

happens it is a great feeling!

Sheila

-- In , ChrisMasterjohn@a... wrote:

> A question for those who have said their eczema went away with

coconut oil--

>

> When this happened, how much coconut oil were you using? Did you

apply it

> topically, or just internally. Also, did you have a white or

yellow coating

> on your tongue and did the coconut oil help with that too?

>

> Thanks,

> Chris

>

> ____

>

> " What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion?

It is a

> heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings,

birds, and

> animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the

sight of

> them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and

intense

> compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them

unable to

> bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any

creature.

> Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for

enemies of the

> truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

>

> --Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

Sheila,

Thanks for your feed back. Coating on the tongue is from toxin release and

can be candida related. I'm doing a protocol from

www.naturalhealingsolutions.com that is based on the assumption that my

exczema is microbial related. I'm not so sure I have a candida growth, but I

*might*. BUT, I did notice that my eczema started *right* after my root

canal last summer *right* at the same time as my chronic conjunctivitis, or a

few days before. I didn't realize this till a week or two ago. So I believe

it is microbial related in either case.

The reason I asked about coconut oil is that I had been taking coconut oil at

4 tbsp a day for my chronic conjunctivitis, and when I would slip off the

coconut oil it would come back, and when I would take it it would be gone

within a day or two. So I maintained a habit of 3-4 tbsp CO every day.

Granted this was Spectrum so I could afford it but it made me want to puke.

Anyway, after a while, when I started eating a half pound of raw meat a week,

my immune system symptoms started to greatly improve, so I lowered my CO

intake until I deemed I didn't need it any more. Then I used it

occasionally, but not all the time.

It never occured to me that my eczema had anything to do with my

conjunctivitis or other immune system problems, nor my CO intake. But now I

realize that my eczema has gone completely out of control since my cessation

of CO intake, which also coincided with a great declination in my intake of

lacto-fermented foods.

One of the main symptoms taken into account that I might have a fungal

problem is that I had a yellow coating on my tongue. That disappeared after

a day or two on the protocol, but as I upped my MSM dosage I get a little bit

of white, probably from the MSM cleaning out toxins.

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/12/03 3:05:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, bwp@...

writes:

> Why does everyone endlessly discuss coconut oil

> (non-whole food) and dwell so much on the inconvenience and expense?

> Why not just buy some dried coconut, which is very cheap. Don't you

> get the same coveted lauric acid in this form?

No.

The usability of lauric acid is higher in coconut milk and oil than in dried

coconut. It is higher in dried or fresh coconut proportional to how finely

chopped/shredded/ground the coconut is. While coconut is very high in fat,

you still need to eat a heck of a lot of it to get the equivalent of 4 tbsp

of coconut oil a day.

Putting it on your salad is a fine source of lauric acid for you, but not

those of us who need very large doses for therapeutic means.

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/12/03 3:05:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, bwp@...

writes:

> but I try

> to use a fresh young coconut about once a week on average, and

> they're only $1.25-$1.50 a pop anywhere I've seen them.

I don't know what kind of coconuts these are or where they come from, but

*organic* coconuts go for about $3 a pop where I am. Moreover, Tropical

Traditions coconuts are organically grown in *volcanic* soil, and very likely

*much* more nutritious than the average dollar-a-pop coconut in the

supermarket.

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

> I can't aford that much just now, but hope to take more in the

> future. I like the taste of it.

> Sheila

I'm loose-fingered tonight, so I might as well rant a little about my

coconut pet peeve. Why does everyone endlessly discuss coconut oil

(non-whole food) and dwell so much on the inconvenience and expense?

Why not just buy some dried coconut, which is very cheap. Don't you

get the same coveted lauric acid in this form? Even better, and

maybe even still cheaper than the oils (though I've never crunched

the numbers, so I really don't know) is simply buying fresh young

coconuts! You can't beat the taste, and you get the priceless

coconut water in its freshest state that way as a highly non-trivial

bonus, not to mention the great fun and thrill of cracking it. I eat

some coconut everyday in my salad, usually the dried stuff, but I try

to use a fresh young coconut about once a week on average, and

they're only $1.25-$1.50 a pop anywhere I've seen them.

Sorry, just had to get this coconut oil thing off my chest!

Mike

[Guest guest]

My daughter has eczema and I rub coconut oil on her cheeks

daily. This seems to help a lot. Also, I make sure she has a

little spoon of coconut oil a day or when we have fresh coconut she

loves to scrape as much as she can. Her itchy spots have improved a

great deal. I am still however trying to figure out what is causing

it, it just might be this weather.

Bella

> A question for those who have said their eczema went away with

coconut oil--

>

> When this happened, how much coconut oil were you using? Did you

apply it

> topically, or just internally. Also, did you have a white or

yellow coating

> on your tongue and did the coconut oil help with that too?

>

> Thanks,

> Chris

[Guest guest]

> > Why does everyone endlessly discuss coconut oil

> > (non-whole food) and dwell so much on the inconvenience and expense?

> > Why not just buy some dried coconut, which is very cheap. Don't you

> > get the same coveted lauric acid in this form?

>

> No.

>

> The usability of lauric acid is higher in coconut milk and oil than in dried

> coconut. It is higher in dried or fresh coconut proportional to how finely

> chopped/shredded/ground the coconut is. While coconut is very high in fat,

> you still need to eat a heck of a lot of it to get the equivalent of 4 tbsp

> of coconut oil a day.

> Chris

Are we talking a difference of 100% usability versus 98% or something? I

have a hard time believing that typical dried, shredded coconut (and

not necessarily the coarsely powdered variety) cannot be

easily and fully digested. The stuff practically melts into other food

given the slightest bit of moisture. Additionally, the fresh meat from

young coconuts is a soft gel that surely must be a breeze to fully digest

and utilize.

By my estimates, using typical shredded coconut, it would take about 1 cup

to get the same amount of lauric acid in 4 tbsp of oil. I would be a

pretty happy guy if ate 1 cup of dried coconut everyday! Even my modest

amounts bring tremendous flavor to food, and it goes with just about

anything, soup, salad, etc. And the flavor benefits would

only be multiplied for the fresh stuff. Unfortunately, eating upwards of

500 calories a day just from coconut would crowd out way too much other precious

food

in my diet, so this is not something I could seriously consider.

Besides the flavor and frugality, you'd be getting a nice hit of Mg, K, and

other

minerals by eating the whole food instead, though I have no idea how much

of the nutrients are missing in the oil--this would be a very interesting

piece of information! The only downside to the whole food is the bit

of carbs, but heck, I'll take the flavor, extra nutrients, and economy

instead. At the cheapest (5 gallon bucket), Tropical Traditions is about

$.17/tbsp. ($.26/tbsp for the 1 gallon size.) At about $1/lb, the dried

coconut I buy works out to about $.05 for a tbsp of the fatty acids. That's

actually not such a big difference, so I could see someone going either

way on this depending on the other considerations of flavor, texture,

total nutritional profile, etc.

?> but I try

>> to use a fresh young coconut about once a week on average, and

>> they're only $1.25-$1.50 a pop anywhere I've seen them.

>I don't know what kind of coconuts these are or where they come from, but

>*organic* coconuts go for about $3 a pop where I am. Moreover, Tropical

>Traditions coconuts are organically grown in *volcanic* soil, and very

>likely

>*much* more nutritious than the average dollar-a-pop coconut in the

>supermarket.

>

>Chris

I don't know where they're grown, but I always buy my young coconuts

(dehusked, white, with pointy tops) from Chinese or Vietnamese shops.

I've never tried one of the old, brown coconuts. Even if the

Tropical Traditions nuts are grown in the best soil, how much of those

great minerals are lost in making the oil? Also, you get as much as 400g

of coconut water a pop. I'd buy 'em just for that. Got one in the frig

right now--all this typing is making me thirsty! Got some longans in the

freezer too I could mix in--can't wait till they're in-season again!!

Mike

[Guest guest]

Mike-

>Additionally, the fresh meat from

>young coconuts is a soft gel that surely must be a breeze to fully digest

>and utilize.

Probably, but that gel is largely sugar.

>By my estimates, using typical shredded coconut, it would take about 1 cup

>to get the same amount of lauric acid in 4 tbsp of oil. I would be a

>pretty happy guy if ate 1 cup of dried coconut everyday!

For lots of people that's just way too many carbs.

Also, do you use butter? That's not a " whole " food. For that matter

neither is cream.

-

[Guest guest]

> >Additionally, the fresh meat from

> >young coconuts is a soft gel that surely must be a breeze to fully digest

> >and utilize.

>

> Probably, but that gel is largely sugar.

I don't have any data for young coconut meat (please let me know if you

have any links or refs for this!!), but going by the USDA data for coconut

meat (probably the hard meat), only about 16% of calories come from carbs,

and if we add in the data from coconut water to get a better estimate for

the young meat, it only goes up to about 19%.

>

> >By my estimates, using typical shredded coconut, it would take about 1 cup

> >to get the same amount of lauric acid in 4 tbsp of oil. I would be a

> >pretty happy guy if ate 1 cup of dried coconut everyday!

>

> For lots of people that's just way too many carbs.

>

> Also, do you use butter? That's not a " whole " food. For that matter

> neither is cream.

that's a good point! I get raw butter from a local farm, but I mainly

only eat it under the influence of NT (well, it tastes great too); I never

ate butter before. I agree that the " whole food " concept is only a vague

guideline, but eating butter and using milk for kefire is not much

different conceptually from using the flesh and bones from an animal

separately and subjecting them to different methods of preparation.

Mike

[Guest guest]

I'd agree, but most dried coconut has preservative on it, so i'd wanna make

it fresh, and i don't live in the tropics.

When i did however, i used to eat/drink 5-10 young coconuts each day, and i

never felt better. Very high in minerals too, chris

_________________________________________________________________

Hotmail now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to

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[Guest guest]

I'd agree, but most dried coconut has preservative on it, so i'd wanna make

it fresh, and i don't live in the tropics.

When i did however, i used to eat/drink 5-10 young coconuts each day, and i

never felt better. Very high in minerals too, chris

>From: " michaelantonparker " <bwp@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: coconut oil and eczema

>Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 08:04:43 -0000

>

> > I can't aford that much just now, but hope to take more in the

> > future. I like the taste of it.

> > Sheila

>

>I'm loose-fingered tonight, so I might as well rant a little about my

>coconut pet peeve. Why does everyone endlessly discuss coconut oil

>(non-whole food) and dwell so much on the inconvenience and expense?

>Why not just buy some dried coconut, which is very cheap. Don't you

>get the same coveted lauric acid in this form? Even better, and

>maybe even still cheaper than the oils (though I've never crunched

>the numbers, so I really don't know) is simply buying fresh young

>coconuts! You can't beat the taste, and you get the priceless

>coconut water in its freshest state that way as a highly non-trivial

>bonus, not to mention the great fun and thrill of cracking it. I eat

>some coconut everyday in my salad, usually the dried stuff, but I try

>to use a fresh young coconut about once a week on average, and

>they're only $1.25-$1.50 a pop anywhere I've seen them.

>

>Sorry, just had to get this coconut oil thing off my chest!

>

>Mike

>

_________________________________________________________________

Hotmail now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to

http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/hotmail_mobile.asp

[Guest guest]

Mike-

>only about 16% of calories come from carbs,

>and if we add in the data from coconut water to get a better estimate for

>the young meat, it only goes up to about 19%.

I have no hard data on young coconuts, but the one time I tasted some of

the gel, it was very sweet, not like mature coconut flesh at all.

Also, I'm not sure the USDA information on fat calories is

accurate. According to the coconut oil people, coconut oil, being almost

entirely medium-chain, has fewer calories per gram than longer-chain animal

fats. The USDA, however, requires that all fats be labeled as containing

the same number of calories per gram.

>I agree that the " whole food " concept is only a vague

>guideline, but eating butter and using milk for kefire is not much

>different conceptually from using the flesh and bones from an animal

>separately and subjecting them to different methods of preparation.

No, but how different is eating butter and feeding skim milk to pigs from

eating coconut oil and feeding the remaining material to livestock?

-

[Guest guest]

> I have no hard data on young coconuts, but the one time I tasted some of

> the gel, it was very sweet, not like mature coconut flesh at all.

I don't know if this experience of sweetness comes from the sugars

or other components. After all, butter can taste very sweet.

I found this bit of info on sugars in coconut water, which we might be

able to extrapolate to the young flesh to some extent.

" Sugars in the forms of glucose and fructose form an important constituent

of the tender nut water. The concentration of sugars in the nut water

steadily increases from about 1.5 per cent to about 5 - 5.5 per cent in

the early months of maturation and then slowly falls reaching about 2 per

cent at the stage of the full maturity of the nut. In the early stages of

maturity sugars are in the form of glucose and fructose (reducing sugars)

and sucrose (non-reducing sugar) appears only in later stages which

increases with the maturity while the reducing sugars fall. In the fully

mature nut approximately 90 per cent of the total sugars is sucrose. "

http://coconutboard.nic.in/tendnutr.htm

> Also, I'm not sure the USDA information on fat calories is

> accurate. According to the coconut oil people, coconut oil, being almost

> entirely medium-chain, has fewer calories per gram than longer-chain animal

> fats. The USDA, however, requires that all fats be labeled as containing

> the same number of calories per gram.

" Know Your Fats " covers this topic in detail, giving the numbers. The

difference is too small to even show up at the level of precision we're

looking at here, rounding off to integers, etc. When it comes

macronutrient ratios and such, it's pretty meaningless to be more precise.

(Also, I did the calorie calculations myself using integers, so the USDA's

calorie formulas weren't involved.)

By the way, the modifier " animal " above is potentially misleading. The

difference in metabolic pathways between medium-chain and long-chain fatty

acids is unrelated to the origin of the fatty acids. After all, plant

foods supply the very same long-chain fatty acids, just in different

quantities, and coconut itself has long-chain fatty acids. Also, animal

foods have medium-chain fatty acids, and even short-chain fatty acids.

For example, butter has both.

Mike

[Guest guest]

>>>>By the way, the modifier " animal " above is potentially misleading. The

difference in metabolic pathways between medium-chain and long-chain fatty

acids is unrelated to the origin of the fatty acids.

----->this brings to mind...due to all the claims of the different metabolic

pathway of MCTs and potential benefits of this different pathway, some

researchers tested this on dogs and found that MCTs did not follow a

different metabolic pathway than longer chain fatty acids. They were

transported in the same way that long chain fats were. obviously, they are a

different species than humans, but there are numerous similarities in the

way both species function (which is why most early research on human

nutrition used dogs as subjects), so i was wondering if the research on

humans showing that MCTs are metabolized differently than other fatty acids

is solid.

these authors write that the notion that MCTs are transported directly to

the portal vein is based on studies on rats, and that those studies did not

directly measure the MCTs in lymphatic or portal fluid (as this study did),

but rather used indirect methods and made *assumptions* based on the lack of

radioactively labelled MCTs in the feces. (has ANY study directly measured

MCTs in the human portal vein?) they also write that rat studies cannot be

extrapolated to dogs (how about humans?) because rats don't have a

gallbladdder! additionally, they write that MCT absorption may be altered in

the presence of LCTs, so they should be studied together to understand how

they are transported in a practical situation (*real food* as opposed to

isolated MCT) to see if there's any clinical usefulness.

has anyone read primary research that found MCTs (especially when eating

*whole* food) are transported directly to the portal vein in humans?

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

>>>>only about 16% of calories come from carbs,

>and if we add in the data from coconut water to get a better estimate for

>the young meat, it only goes up to about 19%.

I have no hard data on young coconuts, but the one time I tasted some of

the gel, it was very sweet, not like mature coconut flesh at all.

---->i have some data on immature and *very* immature coconuts. I believe

it's from the ASEAN food comp database and i think the coconuts are from

southest asia. as best i can make out the *immature* coconut has 12.1 g carb

and the *very immature* one has 5.6 g. i'm guessing that this is per 100 gs,

but it doesn't say. take this with a grain of salt though, because the

columns are labelled in a way that makes me have to guess at which one is is

the carb column. because the other columns are pretty clear cut, i figured

by process of elimination that this is the carb column, which is labelled

" CHOCDF. "

the fat is clearly labelled and the very immature one only has 1.6 grams,

but the immature one has 5.3 g.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

wrote:

>only about 16% of calories come from carbs,

It's not the calorie count that's important, it's the carb count, because for

low-carbers, that's what's going to effect us the most. For example, 1 cup corn

(42g carbs) will make me apathetic and depressed, never mind really sleepy,

whereas one cup of broccoli (8g carbs) will barely make a dent in my mood or

energy level. 1C of fresh coconut is only about 13g carbs, but for many people,

that might be 1/3 of what they can eat for the day - not necessarily a bonus,

I'm sure you'd agree.

Dryad

--

http://www.puritycontrol.co.uk - XF rec's at The Grove, updated 3/12/03

[Guest guest]

> >only about 16% of calories come from carbs,

>

> It's not the calorie count that's important, it's the carb count,

because for

> low-carbers, that's what's going to effect us the most.

> Dryad

The two counts are interchangeable up to a constant, like liters vs

quarts, etc, so it doesn't matter which one is used...

And of course, using percentages is most helpful in general discourse

because everyone's absolute food intake is different depending on

size, metabolic efficiency, etc, a basic point somehow overlooked

by " Life Without Bread " as I recall when I read it a few months ago.

Pretty sad to see a one-size-fits-all number in an otherwise decent

book. (I'm not a low-carber, just keeping up with the times!)

Mike

[Guest guest]

That doesn't compute, Mike.

On Atkins I can " legally " eat two or three (or more) pounds of meat per day

and still lose weight. How does that equate in calories?

Judith Alta

-----Original Message-----

> >only about 16% of calories come from carbs,

>

> It's not the calorie count that's important, it's the carb count,

because for

> low-carbers, that's what's going to effect us the most.

> Dryad

The two counts are interchangeable up to a constant, like liters vs

quarts, etc, so it doesn't matter which one is used...

And of course, using percentages is most helpful in general discourse

because everyone's absolute food intake is different depending on

size, metabolic efficiency, etc, a basic point somehow overlooked

by " Life Without Bread " as I recall when I read it a few months ago.

Pretty sad to see a one-size-fits-all number in an otherwise decent

book. (I'm not a low-carber, just keeping up with the times!)

Mike

[Guest guest]

Judith-

>On Atkins I can " legally " eat two or three (or more) pounds of meat per day

>and still lose weight. How does that equate in calories?

It doesn't. For whatever reason, many people still insist that calories

count, but they don't, or at least not strictly and not by themselves. As

many people know from experience, the more meat and fat and the less carbs

one eats, the more calories one can eat and lose or maintain weight.

-

[Guest guest]

1 g carbs = 4 cals carbs

> > >only about 16% of calories come from carbs,

> >

> > It's not the calorie count that's important, it's the carb count,

> because for

> > low-carbers, that's what's going to effect us the most.

> > Dryad

>

> The two counts are interchangeable up to a constant, like liters vs

> quarts, etc, so it doesn't matter which one is used...

> And of course, using percentages is most helpful in general

discourse

> because everyone's absolute food intake is different depending on

> size, metabolic efficiency, etc, a basic point somehow overlooked

> by " Life Without Bread " as I recall when I read it a few months ago.

> Pretty sad to see a one-size-fits-all number in an otherwise decent

> book. (I'm not a low-carber, just keeping up with the times!)

>

> Mike

[Guest guest]

--- In , Idol <Idol@c...>

wrote:

> Judith-

>

> >On Atkins I can " legally " eat two or three (or more) pounds of

meat per day

> >and still lose weight. How does that equate in calories?

>

> It doesn't. For whatever reason, many people still insist that

calories

> count, but they don't, or at least not strictly and not by

themselves. As

> many people know from experience, the more meat and fat and the

less carbs

> one eats, the more calories one can eat and lose or maintain

weight.

>

>

>

>

> -

[Guest guest]

>That doesn't compute, Mike.

>

>On Atkins I can " legally " eat two or three (or more) pounds of meat per day

>and still lose weight. How does that equate in calories?

>

>Judith Alta

Two pounds of meat is about 2,400 calories (depending on how lean it is and

how it is cooked). Given that there are few carbs, that would be most of

the calories in the diet. Protein makes the metabolism go faster. Excess

fat tends to be excreted, not used. Protein tends to be used to make

muscle, but it is difficult for the body to turn it into fat. And if the

diet is ketogenic, your metabolism is not as efficient with calories as it

would be otherwise. So sure, you could still lose weight.

The question is, do you actually EAT two or three pounds of meat a day?

Schwartzbein's take (and my experience tends to agree) is that you have an

" appestat " which normally causes you to regulate your food intake to match

your activity level. So if you were out building a railroad, you could eat

3-4 lbs of pemmican a day, but most desk-workers could not choke down that

much. Fat and protein are really, really hard to overindulge in. Try eating

20 hard-boiled eggs someday.

But almost everyone can overindulge on carbs -- we just don't have a good

" off switch " for carbs. What is interesting is that ruminants don't have an

off switch for them either. I was reading an article about goats, and it

says if the goat gets into the grain bin, you can kiss that goat goodbye,

they will literally eat themselves to death.

So with goats, you regulate the carb intake and let them eat all the grass

they want. I think that works pretty good for people too -- no matter that

the level the carbs might be under debate.

So it's a lot more complicated than just calories. But it's not as simple

as " calories don't count " either. Given a diet with a steady macronutrient

percentage, metabolism, and fiber level, more calories usually translates

into more fat.

Heidi S

[Guest guest]

Mike-

> " Know Your Fats " covers this topic in detail, giving the numbers. The

>difference is too small to even show up at the level of precision we're

>looking at here, rounding off to integers, etc.

Hmm, I keep meaning to get that book. If that's correct, then the coconut

people (or Tropical Traditions, anyway, and I think Bruce Fife) are, to put

it diplomatically, substantially wrong.

>By the way, the modifier " animal " above is potentially misleading. The

>difference in metabolic pathways between medium-chain and long-chain fatty

>acids is unrelated to the origin of the fatty acids.

Yes and no. The nutrient and cofactor profiles of foods with animal fats

and those with vegetable fats are substantially different, and I've

observed in myself and others that it actually does make a big difference

where the fat comes from.

-

[Guest guest]

Suze-

>has anyone read primary research that found MCTs (especially when eating

>*whole* food) are transported directly to the portal vein in humans?

Nope. And just to confuse the issue further, the sensation of warmth (of

generating a lot of heat) that I got when eating a lot of coconut oil

actually _increased_ when I replaced the coconut oil with lard and more

beef fat.

That said, I actually seem to be *less* tolerant of warmth now, whereas I

think coconut oil was making heat and humidity a little easier to bear last

year, so now I'm dreading summer more than ever.

-

[Guest guest]

> > " Know Your Fats " covers this topic in detail, giving the numbers. The

> >difference is too small to even show up at the level of precision we're

> >looking at here, rounding off to integers, etc.

>

> Hmm, I keep meaning to get that book. If that's correct, then the coconut

> people (or Tropical Traditions, anyway, and I think Bruce Fife) are, to put

> it diplomatically, substantially wrong.

Hey ,

Yeah, you gotta read that book--it's great! Kind of an extended appendix

to NT. I'd crunch the numbers right now, but I lent my copy to my

neighbor (along with the Ravnskov book and a Kilmer McCully book after I

found out he was starting to take cholesterol drugs--he was already

slightly more sophisticated than average in health matters, and he was

quite swayed by the stuff!). Anyway, I just remember having the distinct

impression that the whole medium-chain calorie thing is of more theoretical

interest than practical interest, at least from a numerical point of view.

Obviously coconut does wonders for people regardless of exactly how many

calories are

involved, and there are so many other factors that affect caloric intake,

like whether you take a walk that day or do housecleaning or whatever, or

what your macronutrient ratios, etc, that I don't see why a small numerical

difference would be of any practial relevance to anybody. I think that

when people have an agenda they sometimes present tiny issues as big

issues, like when someone attacks/promotes food x because it contains

substance y that has toxic/wondrous effects, when the quantity of y is too

small to be relevant.

Mike