Diabetes and whole foods diet?

[Guest guest]

I would be interested in hearing from anyone who knows of someone who

has improved their diabetes(type 1 or 2) by eating the NT way. I have

a family member with this disease and as the chief cook I'm trying to

help them.

So far I serve lots of butter or gravy with a potato or any strachy

vegetable or grain, always trying to keep the serving small on the

starches, big on the gravy or butter. We eat grass fed beef, buffalo

fed silage, many, many farm fresh eggs(not pastured, but the chickens

are outdoors all day in a large enclosure), raw milk, raw milk

buttermilk and fresh cream.

What part do vegetables and fruits play in a diabetic's diet?

Baked apples with fresh cream, or home made ice cream or nuts and

chesse whith fresh fruit are standard desserts. Any other suggestions

would be greatly appreciated.

Sheila

[Guest guest]

>I would be interested in hearing from anyone who knows of someone who

>has improved their diabetes(type 1 or 2) by eating the NT way. I have

>a family member with this disease and as the chief cook I'm trying to

>help them.

I don't have diabetes (AFAIK) but I'm at risk for it genetically. So

here is what I have found out:

1. The books " Life without bread " and " The Schwartzbein principle " both

have good tips about Type 2 diabetes. Both are NT compatible. The basic

deal is to cut down on the amount of carbs, not to ketogenic levels (LWB

makes a point of saying ketogenesis isn't harmful, but you don't have to go

to that extreme to help diabetes).

2. Type 1 diabetes is associated with gluten intolerance, and if a person

has it, they should get tested for gluten reactions. IF the person has a

gluten reaction, they actually produce antibodies that attack the pancreas

(it is an autoimmune problem). Those antibodies go away on a non-gluten

diet, but it really has to be NON-gluten to work, and it does not reverse

the damage that is already done. What is interesting is that they are now

diagnosing more Type 1 mixed with Type 2 D. -- Type 1 used to be just in

children.

3. Schwartzbein did her research by having the people test their blood

sugar an hour after a meal. I think THAT is just a great idea. See what

meals cause a spike in blood sugar! Likely each individual is different.

4. Exercise makes a *huge* difference. I started Nordic Trakking every

other day (which is NT too, get it? :-) and I can't believe how much it

affected my blood sugar highs and lows. That and weight training. It has

been shown to dramatically affect insulin resistance, in a very short time.

If you do #1 and #4 together, then you start losing fat too, which also

helps a lot. It only takes me about 20 minutes a day.

5. Eating good fat helps a lot. I've been doing more frying, in goose fat

because that is easy to get. Also I structure our meals (I'm the chief cook

too!) around lean vegies -- green beans, eggplant, salad, whatever -- with

some good meat, and make the carbs the " side dish " . I started this because

one of our folks is an Atkins, and very strict about her carbs, but since

we don't eat gluten either, it makes the meals easier to prepare. The guys

eat a lot more carbs, esp. the one who does cross-country cycling, I think

he needs the calories.

But it is really time-consuming to prepare most carb foods properly, so for

that reason I do less of them also -- also grains, no matter how they are

prepared, seem to be hard to digest for some of us. Vegie-meat combinations

are easy!

Heidi S

[Guest guest]

Thanks Heidi,

I will read Life Without Bread. I have been meaning to get it for

some time. I do eat quite low carb, but others have more trouble

following that sort of plan. Since I am in charge of the cooking I am

will more careful to use fewer potatoes, rice etc., and more non-

starchy vegies. Even brocolli seems to be a hit when served with a

cheese sauce or lots of butter and garlic.

Sally once told me to add cream to whole milk for diabetes. Sounds

yummy to me!

Exercise does seems to be key in controling blood highs and lows.

Bravo for you with your double NT-ing.

I guess it's time to put the stationary bike in front of the

television. If it were there, what excuse could there be for not

biking when it's cold outside? Well I could probaly think of some

excuses, but I'd better not head down that road.

Thanks again for the help.

Sheila

>

> >I would be interested in hearing from anyone who knows of someone

who

> >has improved their diabetes(type 1 or 2) by eating the NT way. I

have

> >a family member with this disease and as the chief cook I'm trying

to

> >help them.

>

> I don't have diabetes (AFAIK) but I'm at risk for it genetically. So

> here is what I have found out:

>

> 1. The books " Life without bread " and " The Schwartzbein principle "

both

> have good tips about Type 2 diabetes. Both are NT compatible. The

basic

> deal is to cut down on the amount of carbs, not to ketogenic levels

(LWB

> makes a point of saying ketogenesis isn't harmful, but you don't

have to go

> to that extreme to help diabetes).

>

> 2. Type 1 diabetes is associated with gluten intolerance, and if a

person

> has it, they should get tested for gluten reactions. IF the person

has a

> gluten reaction, they actually produce antibodies that attack the

pancreas

> (it is an autoimmune problem). Those antibodies go away on a non-

gluten

> diet, but it really has to be NON-gluten to work, and it does not

reverse

> the damage that is already done. What is interesting is that they

are now

> diagnosing more Type 1 mixed with Type 2 D. -- Type 1 used to be

just in

> children.

>

> 3. Schwartzbein did her research by having the people test their

blood

> sugar an hour after a meal. I think THAT is just a great idea. See

what

> meals cause a spike in blood sugar! Likely each individual is

different.

>

> 4. Exercise makes a *huge* difference. I started Nordic Trakking

every

> other day (which is NT too, get it? :-) and I can't believe how

much it

> affected my blood sugar highs and lows. That and weight training.

It has

> been shown to dramatically affect insulin resistance, in a very

short time.

> If you do #1 and #4 together, then you start losing fat too, which

also

> helps a lot. It only takes me about 20 minutes a day.

>

> 5. Eating good fat helps a lot. I've been doing more frying, in

goose fat

> because that is easy to get. Also I structure our meals (I'm the

chief cook

> too!) around lean vegies -- green beans, eggplant, salad, whatever -

- with

> some good meat, and make the carbs the " side dish " . I started this

because

> one of our folks is an Atkins, and very strict about her carbs, but

since

> we don't eat gluten either, it makes the meals easier to prepare.

The guys

> eat a lot more carbs, esp. the one who does cross-country cycling,

I think

> he needs the calories.

>

> But it is really time-consuming to prepare most carb foods

properly, so for

> that reason I do less of them also -- also grains, no matter how

they are

> prepared, seem to be hard to digest for some of us. Vegie-meat

combinations

> are easy!

>

>

>

> Heidi S

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>I will read Life Without Bread. I have been meaning to get it for

>some time. I do eat quite low carb, but others have more trouble

>following that sort of plan. Since I am in charge of the cooking I am

>will more careful to use fewer potatoes, rice etc., and more non-

>starchy vegies. Even brocolli seems to be a hit when served with a

>cheese sauce or lots of butter and garlic.

I've found that when people have a LOT to choose from, and

carbs are a side dish, they don't eat so many of them. A lot

of it is a matter of giving yourself permission. Once I figured

out I could have a breakfast of ONLY bacon (yeah, it has

nitrates, but I was travelling and it was the only non-gluten

food available besides a little hashbrowns) -- wow, I just

pigged out on bacon, who needs toast?

>Sally once told me to add cream to whole milk for diabetes. Sounds

>yummy to me!

I think it is, but I also think it is good to keep a food diary.

I started pigging out on cream and started getting migraines --

I think there is a hormonal issue there, or maybe an allergy

(I test sensitive to casein, though I don't think there is much

in cream).

>Exercise does seems to be key in controling blood highs and lows.

>Bravo for you with your double NT-ing.

Thanks. I have to keep bragging about it to keep me going ;-)

But I feel better than I have in 5 years.

>I guess it's time to put the stationary bike in front of the

>television. If it were there, what excuse could there be for not

>biking when it's cold outside? Well I could probaly think of some

>excuses, but I'd better not head down that road.

Pre-marriage I had a rowing machine in front of the TV. I taped

my favorite shows, and would ONLY allow myself to watch them

if I exercised. You can get " radio headphones " so the machine

doesn't interfere with the TV. Boy, was I ever diligent on that

machine! This works especially well if you are addicted to soaps.

Heidi S

[Guest guest]

Pigs fed cooked potatoes experienced fluctuating insulin levels.

Pigs fed raw potatoes had more stable blood sugar.

Chris

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/13/03 4:50:02 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jopollack2001@... writes:

> I suggest to my mum (type 2 diabetic) that she goes for

> 60-80g per day

Isn't that kind of high to call " low-carb " ? A piece of bread with every meal

would be roughly 60, maybe 72, grams carbs. Broccoli is about 3g per cup.

You'd have to eat twenty cups a day to get into that range! With legumes you

could probably do it, but if you can still do it while eating bread at every

meal that's probably more moderate carb than low-carb, no?

I'm not criticizing the plan by any means of course, I don't know anything

about diabetes. But I'm on a no-starch/no-sugar diet for the first time now

and I don't think I eat anywhere near 60g carbs. Maybe more like thirty?

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

> I would be interested in hearing from anyone who knows of someone

who

> has improved their diabetes(type 1 or 2) by eating the NT way. I

have

> a family member with this disease and as the chief cook I'm trying

to

> help them.

>

Hi Sheila

I don't know about NT and diabetes, but a diabetic's diet should be

low carbohdrate in order to control blood sugar. How low is open to

debate - each doctor says something different, but the book " Dr

Bernsteins diabetic solution " is a must read for all diabetics.

Personally, I suggest to my mum (type 2 diabetic) that she goes for

60-80g per day, all low glycaemic carbs, such as vegetables, legumes

etc. Potatoes and grains are higher glycaemic, so should be eaten in

moderation.

The glycaemic load of a carb can be lowered by eating fibre and fat

with the carbs, which will lessen/slow the insulin reaction. Never

eat a carbohydrate alone.

This advice can be followed along with NT principles.

Fruit/fructose has little effect on insulin. However, it does raise

blood sugar and if the energy is not burned off through exercise,

then it will be stored as fat without the use of insulin. If the

diabetic has a weight problem, fruit should only be eaten in

moderation, and lower carb veggies used instead for the nutrition.

Just my opinion!

Jo

[Guest guest]

Jo-

>The glycaemic load of a carb can be lowered by eating fibre and fat

>with the carbs, which will lessen/slow the insulin reaction. Never

>eat a carbohydrate alone.

A slight correction: the glycemic load of a carb is unaffected by food

combining, as the load is a measure of the total amount of sugar consumed

regardless of when and how; it's actually the glycemic index (i.e. the

spike in blood sugar) that's reduced by eating a carb with fat.

-

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/14/03 6:44:53 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jopollack2001@... writes:

> The type of carb is very important - most veggies except root veggies

> are slow-release carbs. So 60g from beans, brocolli and a few

> carrots is better than 1 slice of bread with every meal (although my

> mum lives in france where the quality of the flour used in bread is

> generally better)

Right, but it's just rather hard to eat so much of these (except beans, and

*maybe* carrots) to supply 80g of carbs. Most non-starch-dense veggies you

have to eat a whole plateful just to get 10g carbs.

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

--- In , Idol <Idol@c...>

wrote:

> A slight correction: the glycemic load of a carb is unaffected by

food

> combining, as the load is a measure of the total amount of sugar

consumed

> regardless of when and how; it's actually the glycemic index (i.e.

the

> spike in blood sugar) that's reduced by eating a carb with fat.

Ah well, depends which book you read and what terminology it uses!

The fact that the glycaemic load of a carb is higher than the

glycaemic load of a meal which contains that same carb, with fat and

protein is what counts in a balanced meal.

Jo

[Guest guest]

>> > I suggest to my mum (type 2 diabetic) that she goes for

> > 60-80g per day

>

> Isn't that kind of high to call " low-carb " ? A piece of bread with

every meal

> would be roughly 60, maybe 72, grams carbs. Broccoli is about 3g

per cup.

> You'd have to eat twenty cups a day to get into that range! With

legumes you

> could probably do it, but if you can still do it while eating bread

at every

> meal that's probably more moderate carb than low-carb, no?

>

The average western diet is usually in the region of 200-300g carbs

per day. Certainly the people around me at work and my friends eat

that level of carbs. So, 60g is low carb - in fact, 100g is low carb

in comparison!

The type of carb is very important - most veggies except root veggies

are slow-release carbs. So 60g from beans, brocolli and a few

carrots is better than 1 slice of bread with every meal (although my

mum lives in france where the quality of the flour used in bread is

generally better)

There are not many low carb plans that go below 60g per day. Dr

Atkins does, and the Protein Power plan does, but both only in the

beginning. Dieters are encouraged to increase carbs as time goes

on.

The Schwarzbein Principle, Eat Fat Get Thin, CAD are all 60g or more

per day.

Jo

[Guest guest]

>Ah well, depends which book you read and what terminology it uses!

>

>The fact that the glycaemic load of a carb is higher than the

>glycaemic load of a meal which contains that same carb, with fat and

>protein is what counts in a balanced meal.

>

>Jo

The " Glycemic load " is a new term, AFAIK, that takes into account

the glycemic index (how fast a given food causes the blood sutar to spike)

and how much of that food constitutes one portion (100 grams, I think). The

glycemic index is based on 100 *calories*, and it gives a high value for

foods like carrots. The problem is, 100 calories worth of carrots is more

carrots than most people actually eat. The glycemic load might be a more

reasonable value to go with, according to some people. But like you say,

neither takes into account that foods are eaten in combination with

other foods, and the kind of preparation really matters a lot. Didn't

someone say that pigs got fat on cooked potatoes, but not on raw

potatoes? The starch in cooked carrots is very different from raw

carrots too.

Heidi S

[Guest guest]

>I can add that changing to a more traditional diet,

>eating almost zero grains has helped me manage my

>blood sugars well. I have never been and am not

>currently on medication. I still suffer from some

>morning fasting blood sugars around 110, while post

>prandial, bedtime and random checks are normal. This

>problem still confounds me.

>

>Carol

A lot of it has to do with insulin resistance, and how well

the body can access fat it has stored. A good quick way

to help with that is to do weight training or hard exercise --

it helps almost immediately. When I do my exercising

(not a lot, 20 min/day) then I can actually skip meals

because my body can access the fat I have stored instead of

insisting I eat something, and the carbs I eat can be processed

instead of raising my blood sugar.

Heidi S