RE: Tooth brushing question

[Guest guest]

To assimilate into culture? They didn't have cavities, but they had green

slime on their teeth!

I doubt most of us, even on this list, eat as good as most of the people

Weston Price found. They probably didn't have occasional indulgences into

beer (bottle-conditioned or not) or the level of sweets we might make with

maple syrup or raw honey.

But MOST importantly, our soil fertility *sucks* and they had good soil

fertility. So for a given " nutritious, whole food " ours would not have the

nutrition theirs would.

That said, my boss knows a mentally disabled guy that lives on a farm and all

his life he has drunk warm raw milk straight from the cow, along with canned

food and a bunch of crap. He has *never* brushed his teeth and has *never*

had a single cavity.

So, for many of us, brushing teeth may well be unnecessary, but it is taking

a chance.

And, even for those of us who don't need to, some might want to to be a

little more " kissable. "

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/9/03 2:16:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jaltak@... writes:

> It's also possible that the main reason for pushing frequent tooth brushing

> is to sell toothpaste.

That definitely factors in somewhere, but I don't think it is conscious on

the parts of dentists by anymeans... or tooth paste executives, for that

matter. While I'm not crediting tooth paste executives with humanitarianism,

I don't believe that *they* believe tooth brushing is unnecessary. It is

just that the medical paradigm in this country and most other industrialized

ones is one that requires dependency on the medical establishment, b/c few

would fund research or consider theories that would erase their career and

everything they've worked for. Don't think they do it *consciously* though.

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/9/03 2:29:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,

s.fisher22@... writes:

> now that i eat more traditionally, i swear my face is getting wider. maybe

> it's just the few extra winter pounds iv'e put on...

LOL!

>but i wonder if it's possible to prevent teeth from moving with good

diet...? anyone >else notice something similar?

Sally showed a picture of a girl, someone she knew apparently, at the lecture

last summer, who had crowded teeth as a teenager but adopted a good diet and

actually fixed her teeth/facial structure by her 20s. Of course you're still

somewhat developing even in late teens I think.

But I'm glad you might be having luck... maybe there's hope for my

mouth-breathing and narrow ear canals yet!

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/9/03 3:14:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,

s.fisher22@... writes:

> ---->oh, i have those issues too. and i absolutely hate breathing out of my

> mouth! come to think of it, my brother has wider nostrils than i do.

> geez...he got all the good stuff.

i can breathe through my nose better than ever before right now, but i still

can't very well from time to time. my ear canals do not drain mucus

properly, so i constantly feel like i have to yawn but my ears never pop.

this is also getting a lot better now too, but still more or less

ever-present. :-/

chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

I was wondering this same thing

.... drinking milk... eating cheese etc

that is lactose.. that is " milk sugar "

no cavities? hmmmm

----- Original Message -----

From: " Judith Alta " <jaltak@...>

< >

Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 7:46 AM

Subject: Tooth brushing question

> Question:

>

> If brushing one's teeth is so important why did the native peoples that

> Weston Price studied have no cavities or gum disease without brushing?

>

> Judith Alta

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Judith-

>If brushing one's teeth is so important why did the native peoples that

>Weston Price studied have no cavities or gum disease without brushing?

I've wondered this for a long time -- and how did the healthy people he

found all have such bright white teeth, too? There must be some other

factor or factors in our lifestyles or theirs (or both) that accounts for

it. Obviously brushing shouldn't be necessary.

-

[Guest guest]

Good thoughts.

It's also possible that the main reason for pushing frequent tooth brushing

is to sell toothpaste.

And it's not only the soil that has been denatured it's the processed food

" enriched " with fake vitamins.

Judith Alta

-----Original Message-----

To assimilate into culture? They didn't have cavities, but they had green

slime on their teeth!

I doubt most of us, even on this list, eat as good as most of the people

Weston Price found. They probably didn't have occasional indulgences into

beer (bottle-conditioned or not) or the level of sweets we might make with

maple syrup or raw honey.

But MOST importantly, our soil fertility *sucks* and they had good soil

fertility. So for a given " nutritious, whole food " ours would not have the

nutrition theirs would.

That said, my boss knows a mentally disabled guy that lives on a farm and

all

his life he has drunk warm raw milk straight from the cow, along with canned

food and a bunch of crap. He has *never* brushed his teeth and has *never*

had a single cavity.

So, for many of us, brushing teeth may well be unnecessary, but it is taking

a chance.

And, even for those of us who don't need to, some might want to to be a

little more " kissable. "

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

>>>To assimilate into culture? They didn't have cavities, but they had

green

slime on their teeth!

---> LOL! I was just talking about this last night with my family. I told

them about the wide-faced traditional/primitive folks WAP studied and how

they had wide enough dental arches to fit all 32 teeth just fine. My mom has

a broad face, my dad's is not as broad, but not at all narrow, mine is

oval - kind of medium width by modern standards and my brother's slightly

narrower than mine. I had everyone open their mouths so i could see their

teeth, and to my dismay I have the worst teeth in my family! even my brother

with a narrower face has beautiful straight, white teeth, and has his wisdom

teeth intact. and no, he hasn't had braces or anything to straighten them.

My dad has his wisdom teeth intact (he grew up poor with lots of traditional

foods) and his are also straight. I have my wisdom teeth too, but they are

now horizontal and in my mid-30s started pushing my other teeth (which WERE

straight). so now some of them are not so straight (although my dentist said

he's seen much worse.) I wonder why wisdom teeth would wait thirty years or

so before they started pushing other teeth?

I ate a TON of candy growing up and so have a mouth full of mercury

amalgams, too. It's possible my mom's diet might have deteriorated from the

time she had my brother to the time she had me three years later. But I

wonder if that's the only thing that would account for why his teeth are so

straight and healthy and mine are getting pushed by my wisdom teeth. I also

suspect my diet hasn't been as good as his most of our lives.

now that i eat more traditionally, i swear my face is getting wider. maybe

it's just the few extra winter pounds iv'e put on...but i wonder if it's

possible to prevent teeth from moving with good diet...? anyone else notice

something similar?

i still don't know if i'm going to have my wisdom teeth removed...was

supposed to years ago, but kept putting it off until my employer switched

insurance plans and they didn't cover it anymore, and i didn't have the

money to pay for it myself. so i'm just letting it ride for now.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

Suze-

>It's possible my mom's diet might have deteriorated from the

>time she had my brother to the time she had me three years later. But I

>wonder if that's the only thing that would account for why his teeth are so

>straight and healthy and mine are getting pushed by my wisdom teeth.

Don't forget that pregnancy severely depletes a woman's body, and if your

mom wasn't eating a super-healthy diet to replenish her reserves, you

would've come out unhealthier no matter what.

-

[Guest guest]

>>>>Suze-

>It's possible my mom's diet might have deteriorated from the

>time she had my brother to the time she had me three years later. But I

>wonder if that's the only thing that would account for why his teeth are so

>straight and healthy and mine are getting pushed by my wisdom teeth.

>>>>Don't forget that pregnancy severely depletes a woman's body, and if

your

mom wasn't eating a super-healthy diet to replenish her reserves, you

would've come out unhealthier no matter what.

---->ack! i knew there must be some disadvantage to being the baby in the

family...i was doomed!

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

>>>>But I'm glad you might be having luck... maybe there's hope for my

mouth-breathing and narrow ear canals yet!

---->oh, i have those issues too. and i absolutely hate breathing out of my

mouth! come to think of it, my brother has wider nostrils than i do.

geez...he got all the good stuff.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

> > Question:

> >

> > If brushing one's teeth is so important why did the native peoples that

> > Weston Price studied have no cavities or gum disease without brushing?

> >

> > Judith Alta

I have found that on certain diets, I have not needed particularly

to brush my teeth. It is when I eat things like crackers that I really

get " mossy teeth. " When I was eating mainly salads and fish I

didn't brush my teeth much at all, but I did visit the dentist,

who said my teeth were great. Carbs that are in, say, cracked

grain don't seem to make your teeth dirty either.

Also probiotics help prevent plaque (they are

experimenting with a probiotic tooth paste!) because the bacteria

prevent the plaque bacteria from growing. So that may be part

of the answer. A some cultures chew sticks too, to clean their

teeth, though they may not have regarded it as " tooth brushing " .

My mother used to describe the " hicks " from the Ozarks with

their willow-stick bundles that they used to clean their teeth.

There is also an interesting connection between gluten

and tooth calcification. If a person is sensitive to gluten,

and eats it, then calcium usage is fouled up somehow,

which leads to osteoporosis. But it can also lead to teeth

that are not calcified, which is considered a symptom

of celiac. I think this happened with my daughter -- the

dentist tells me her teeth are soft and porous, though

her diet was good and she never did get much candy and

she got plenty of calcium. People who live in our culture

but don't react to gluten probably have much, much better

teeth, even if their diets are lousy.

On a side note -- when our dog arrived the vet said his teeth

were full of plaque and he needed them cleaned. I've been

giving him raw bones -- this visit she said his teeth were great.

I never did get his teeth cleaned. I guess he cleans them by

chewing on bones!

Heidi S

[Guest guest]

Suze, this is very probable as I am the oldest out of 4 and my

youngest sister has allergies, eczema, and needs braces. I was

curious as to what my mother ate when pregnant before we moved to

the US and she said when she was pregnant with me at the time she

ate a lot of fish and coconuts. That is just what she craved at the

time. My other sister as well has straight teeth, the youngest ones

born here have crooked teeth.

> >>>>Don't forget that pregnancy severely depletes a woman's body,

and if

> your

> mom wasn't eating a super-healthy diet to replenish her reserves,

you

> would've come out unhealthier no matter what.

Stangely enough my children are only 16 months apart(Ooops)and the

youngest one seems a lot healthier than her brother. I was in labor

for abour 3 hours and she was out very alert baby. She has a broad

face, wide nostrils and only has had 2 colds since she was born.

My son on the other hand, I had a hard labor with him as his head

was quite large and this turned into a c-section. He wouldn't

tolerate dairy for about a year and a half, he had about 4 ear

infections, he has pinched nostrils and breathes through his mouth

like my husband. It is just strange that she seems healthier than

him, I did get get pregnant with her while in Hawaii, maybe it was

all that great food I was eating. LOL Perhaps time will tell when

they get older, but right now I am just trying to feed them the

best. This means no junk, lots of good fats, and no sugar.

Fortunately they are too young to ask me for junk food still.

-Bella

[Guest guest]

At 12:28 PM 3/9/03 -0800, you wrote:

>

>> > Question:

>> >

>> > If brushing one's teeth is so important why did the native peoples that

>> > Weston Price studied have no cavities or gum disease without brushing?

>> >

>> > Judith Alta

Just theory but mostly they consumed little to no simple carbohydrates. Those

that had grain in their diet also had plentiful dairy, fish or wild game.

Fruits didn't have the sugar content today's hybrids do. Unless it was the

southern hemisphere these were seasonal. Their foods involved more chewing and

more saliva production to help keep the mouth clean. Water probably

sufficed to

rinse particles that might cause problems out of the mouth.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

At 03:01 PM 3/9/03 -0500, Suze wrote:

>---->ack! i knew there must be some disadvantage to being the baby in the

>family...i was doomed!

Remember reading in some book over the last few months that the youngest child

gets the least amount of toxins from the mother. Said by the time the 7th was

born they were pretty much toxin free. I'm a first and hubby is a 7th. Hope

this helps you feel less disadvantaged. :-)

Wanita

[Guest guest]

At 09:33 AM 3/9/03 -0800, you wrote:

>I was wondering this same thing

>... drinking milk... eating cheese etc

>that is lactose.. that is " milk sugar "

>no cavities? hmmmm

,

This was whole raw milk with enzymes and CLA intact. CLA is more concentrated

in butter but has to be in its source's fat. Cheese is more protein than

fat or

carb. The fat is also in its natural state so it reduces the glycemic

result of

the lactose in the best way for the body to assimilate. More than likely why

people today who can't tolerate pasteurized, homogenized lactose have no

problem with raw milk.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

>>>i can breathe through my nose better than ever before right now, but i

still

can't very well from time to time. my ear canals do not drain mucus

properly, so i constantly feel like i have to yawn but my ears never pop.

this is also getting a lot better now too, but still more or less

ever-present. :-/

---->my situation is similar...always had ear problems since i was a kid,

although they are not regular, but flare up every once in a while. I can say

i have " pinched nostrils " but it makes me feel so ugly! my mom,

interestingly, has a wide face, but had such breathing problems from narrow

nostrils that she had to have an operation to open them up. she also had to

have her wisdow teeth removed. go figure.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

>>>Remember reading in some book over the last few months that the youngest

child

gets the least amount of toxins from the mother. Said by the time the 7th

was

born they were pretty much toxin free. I'm a first and hubby is a 7th. Hope

this helps you feel less disadvantaged. :-)

---->haha! thanks wanita...i always thought the baby was so *advantaged*

until i saw my brother's great teeth! I just knew he sucked all the

nutrients out of my mom leaving me the scraps. so maybe i didn't get all the

dioxin either...LOL!

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

> A some cultures chew sticks too, to clean their

> teeth, though they may not have regarded it as " tooth brushing " .

> My mother used to describe the " hicks " from the Ozarks with

> their willow-stick bundles that they used to clean their teeth.

When I got to spend time with Maasai, I frequently saw them rubbing a

particular stick on their teeth/gums as they talked with one

another. The stick would get all frayed at the end. Unfortunately,

I wasn't interested in food/WAP at the time, so I didn't ask what

type of stick they used. They did have gorgeous teeth.

[Guest guest]

I have heard of a stick like that used traditionally in India, but

don't know what sort it is either.

Laurie

[Guest guest]

>Don't forget that pregnancy severely depletes a woman's body, and if your

>mom wasn't eating a super-healthy diet to replenish her reserves, you

>would've come out unhealthier no matter what.

Plus, in traditional societies kids were spaced at least 5 years apart!

I had mine 2 years apart -- big mistake! If you live in a traditional

society, and breast feed as long as they did, you would not get pregnant

for at least 3 and probably 5 years -- they also carried the kids around

until they could walk good (about 3-4 years), so a woman could not

have them too close together. That gave her reserves time to rebuild,

and the older kid could help care for the younger. Much, much easier

on the woman. When we started farming, women started having kids

much closer together, which is one reason for unhealthier kids and

a shorter lifespan for the woman.

Heidi S

[Guest guest]

>i can breathe through my nose better than ever before right now, but i still

>can't very well from time to time. my ear canals do not drain mucus

>properly, so i constantly feel like i have to yawn but my ears never pop.

>this is also getting a lot better now too, but still more or less

>ever-present. :-/

>

>chris

A lot of people suffer from chronic sinusitis. I've been experimenting -- with

an e-friend -- with the concept of " probiotics for the nose " . What if --

and I'm

not saying I know -- the sinuses are supposed to be colonized by good bacteria?

We are trying using kefir whey in a Neti pot. So far, so good -- I was

having an

incipient sinus infection starting and it seems to be receding, and my friend

had the same response. I'm using about 1 Tbls per pot of salt water. If anyone

else has that problem and tries it, do let me know what the outcome is.

Sinusitis is a bear, and it can really make you sick, and there are not

good treatments for it. The Neti pot really helps, but basically I was

having chronic pain for years before I figured it out (it was low-level

pain, and I just thought it was eye-pain from reading too much). I can't

figure out why this is such an issue for so many people, but I'm guessing

it has something to do with narrow faces or high dental arches, both of

which go with connective tissue issues (which are strongly influenced by

diet).

Heidi S

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " lassegaard " <PWC24@...>

> I have heard of a stick like that used traditionally in India, but

> don't know what sort it is either.

> Laurie

I have a cook book that says it is the neem tree. Dunno the accuracy

of that though?

Take Care,

Adrienne

Georgia Naturals Farm

one can not always be magnificent,

but simplicity is always a possible alternative

[Guest guest]

You underestimate the toothpaste manufacturers in their drive to sell as

much product as possible. If they think it will sell product they will push

it for everything they can get out of it. And that is true of most, if not

all, business.

Ever notice that the ads all show a toothbrush with toothpaste the full

length of the bristles, and extending up or down at each end? Half that

amount is more than enough. But they want you to think you MUST use that

much.

Judith Alta

-----Original Message-----

In a message dated 3/9/03 2:16:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jaltak@... writes:

> It's also possible that the main reason for pushing frequent tooth

brushing

> is to sell toothpaste.

That definitely factors in somewhere, but I don't think it is conscious on

the parts of dentists by anymeans... or tooth paste executives, for that

matter. While I'm not crediting tooth paste executives with

humanitarianism,

I don't believe that *they* believe tooth brushing is unnecessary. It is

just that the medical paradigm in this country and most other industrialized

ones is one that requires dependency on the medical establishment, b/c few

would fund research or consider theories that would erase their career and

everything they've worked for. Don't think they do it *consciously* though.

Chris

[Guest guest]

I'm not sure it the chewing of the bones that cleans a dog's teeth. Our dog

is raw fed and I've been on several raw fed list where members said that

their dog's teeth improved tremendously, but they were fed ground raw bones

and meat and did not have bones to chew.

Judith Alta

-----Original Message-----

From: Heidi Schuppenhauer [mailto:heidis@...]

> > Question:

> >

> > If brushing one's teeth is so important why did the native peoples that

> > Weston Price studied have no cavities or gum disease without brushing?

> >

> > Judith Alta

I have found that on certain diets, I have not needed particularly

to brush my teeth. It is when I eat things like crackers that I really

get " mossy teeth. " When I was eating mainly salads and fish I

didn't brush my teeth much at all, but I did visit the dentist,

who said my teeth were great. Carbs that are in, say, cracked

grain don't seem to make your teeth dirty either.

Also probiotics help prevent plaque (they are

experimenting with a probiotic tooth paste!) because the bacteria

prevent the plaque bacteria from growing. So that may be part

of the answer. A some cultures chew sticks too, to clean their

teeth, though they may not have regarded it as " tooth brushing " .

My mother used to describe the " hicks " from the Ozarks with

their willow-stick bundles that they used to clean their teeth.

There is also an interesting connection between gluten

and tooth calcification. If a person is sensitive to gluten,

and eats it, then calcium usage is fouled up somehow,

which leads to osteoporosis. But it can also lead to teeth

that are not calcified, which is considered a symptom

of celiac. I think this happened with my daughter -- the

dentist tells me her teeth are soft and porous, though

her diet was good and she never did get much candy and

she got plenty of calcium. People who live in our culture

but don't react to gluten probably have much, much better

teeth, even if their diets are lousy.

On a side note -- when our dog arrived the vet said his teeth

were full of plaque and he needed them cleaned. I've been

giving him raw bones -- this visit she said his teeth were great.

I never did get his teeth cleaned. I guess he cleans them by

chewing on bones!

Heidi S