RE: Re: Thank Heavens.....!!!!!!

[Guest guest]

Lee wrote: I am pleased to note

that our moderator is a retired RN nurse with years of experience.

However, while ’s experience is useful, it’s not the

only perspective. Many holistic

approaches are also useful. I would not

like to see them pooh-poohed here just because they do not bear the imprimatur

of conventional medicine. When the dust

has settled, there will be many survivors who owe their survival to medicinal

herbs and other healing compounds that conventional medicine doesn’t

endorse.

[Guest guest]

In fact, , I quite agree with you and would add that before people take the holistic approach they investigate the research that has been done one whatever medicinals they might want to use. Too many times people say this and that about the supposed healing properties of something just because a next door neighbor may have been helped by it. Behind many homeopathic medicinals is some very serious research. I use two homeopathic medications myself. One keeps me from getting crippled from arthritis and the other helps with prostate health. My "conventional" docs know I take these and they are in full support. IF a person uses both conventional and non-conventional methods, it's important to let the respective health care practitioners know what kinds of medicines the patient is taking. Even vitamins are medicine. The more the health care practioner (conventional or otherwise) knows the better he/she can be of help. A

caveat here: If a homeopathic practitioner advises a person to stop taking conventional medications this should be discussed first with the person's conventional doctor. For instance, I take conventional medication for my heart. I would be foolish to stop taking it without getting a second opinion since it helps to regulate my heart rhythm. I have three rather serious concurrent heart conditions. Anyway, there is benefit in both approaches as long as a person really knows what he/she is doing and why. Coy <catherinecoy@...> wrote:

Lee wrote: I am pleased to note that our moderator is a retired RN nurse with years of experience.

However, while ’s experience is useful, it’s not the only perspective. Many holistic approaches are also useful. I would not like to see them pooh-poohed here just because they do not bear the imprimatur of conventional medicine. When the dust has settled, there will be many survivors who owe their survival to medicinal herbs and other healing compounds that conventional medicine doesn’t endorse.

Never place a period where God has placed a comma. - Gracie

[Guest guest]

Lee wrote: can dabble

safely in such things if he wishes because he has enough knowledge to do so.

Anyone can acquire the necessary knowledge. That’s the point. The white coats and stethoscopes have done a

masterful job of making people think that only they (the white coats) can take

care of our health. As a result, when

faced with a serious health challenge such as cancer, we tend to show up, stick

out our veins and hope for the best.

Big, BIG mistake!

[Guest guest]

Lee wrote: You would do

well to study the history of medicine which led to the founding of the US FDA.

I HAVE studied the power-grab

that occurred at the time the American Medical Association and the Food and

Drug Administration were set up.

In any event, the FDA is a far cry from the guardian of the people it

was set up to be.

P.S. Doctors, hospitals and

pharmaceuticals are the fourth leading cause of death in the United States.

http://www.ourcivilisation.com/medicine/usamed.htm

[Guest guest]

Lee wrote: Something had to be

done to protect the American people from all of the

quacks and charlatins.

One man’s quack is another man’s savior. In my opinion, the AMA is a collective quack

of the highest order, foisting useless chemotherapy on the most vulnerable of

patients.

Ka-ching!

[Guest guest]

Lee condescends: Clearly, you

have been very badly hurt in some fashion and blame the

medical establishment for this. I am very sorry that you have been

hurt.

Where did you get that idea? I’m

in perfect health. But I can read, and

what I read tells me that the American medical establishment needs to be

dismantled from the ground up. I could drown

this board with credible links that illustrates this FACT.

[Guest guest]

Lee wrote: Dismantled and

replaced with what?

With something that really heals people instead of “treating”

them.

[Guest guest]

The most important thing for those who want to use the homeopathic approach is that they do it from an educated point of view. Medicinals and various treatments need to be researched as to their true efficacy. Homeopathic medicinals are widely used throughout Europe as an adjunct to conventional medicinals and there are many professional journal articles about these helpful preparations. It'd be silly to take something just because someone told you how wonderful it might be. We need to do our own homework.Lee <jackalope_lepus@...> wrote:

While I agree with you that conventional medicine can and has taken useful information from things such as tribal medicine (do you not remember the docs interviewing the tribal medicine men when the Henta virus was discovered?), other perspectives are too dangerous for non-experts. can dabble safely in such things if he wishes because he has enough knowledge to do so. For those lacking in formal medical training, the rule is caveat emptor. Snake oil salesmen and frauds abound in these fields and those who lack formal training in medicine would do well to stick with FDA tested medicines, etc. Hence, for those lacking in formal medical training, other approaches are not only useless, they are dangerous. I have mentioned before the poor woman that I met on these boards who blamed the death of her

child on pop medicine. That is but one example. Guaranteed that if any herbs are useful, they will eventually be adopted by conventional medicine. Those who look to such herbs now are either fools, or they cannot be cured by conventional medicine and they are in search of pipe dreams. As such, I do not merely pooh pooh other approaches, I condemn them. To do otherwise would be to do a great disservice to the common American.> However, while 's experience is useful, it's not the only> perspective. Many holistic approaches are also useful. I would not> like to see them pooh-poohed here just because they do not bear the> imprimatur of conventional medicine. When the dust has settled, there> will be many survivors who owe their survival to medicinal herbs and> other

healing compounds that conventional medicine doesn't endorse.

Never place a period where God has placed a comma. - Gracie

[Guest guest]

You raise a very important point here, , about acquiring the necessary knowledge. This is all-important even before the white coats descend with their particular set of magic potions. In the area of herbal medicine what I generally hear is not that people have actually done their own homework but they they've heard from this or that person that compound x or y is a good treatment for ailment a. This is just plain silly and could even be dangerous. Herbal medicines can also have unwanted side effects. Coy <catherinecoy@...> wrote:

Lee wrote: can dabble safely in such things if he wishes because he has enough knowledge to do so.

Anyone can acquire the necessary knowledge. That’s the point. The white coats and stethoscopes have done a masterful job of making people think that only they (the white coats) can take care of our health. As a result, when faced with a serious health challenge such as cancer, we tend to show up, stick out our veins and hope for the best.

Big, BIG mistake!

Never place a period where God has placed a comma. - Gracie

[Guest guest]

wrote: In the area

of herbal medicine what I generally hear is not that people have actually done

their own homework but they they've heard from this or that person that

compound x or y is a good treatment for ailment a.

Many master herbalists (see link) have written scholarly books on this

subject. The knowledge isn’t

hard to find. It’s a lot

easier, to be sure, to just jump in the car and go see a white coat which is,

of course, why most people take that road.

But if you want an edge, an extra measure of healing or protection from

illness, you must do your homework.

http://tinyurl.com/asogg

Here’s an eBook on how to avoid the flu:

Beat the Bird

Flu and Survive the Pandemic

http://www.truthpublishing.com/survivinginfluenza.html

[Guest guest]

Very interesting article. Just one observation:

>>The number of people having in-hospital, adverse drug reactions (ADR) to prescribed medicine is 2.2 million. (1) <<

These medication reactions could happen whether or not a person's in the hospital. Being in the hospital doesn't produce such reactions. The quantum leap in thinking here is rather great. Any medication, whether conventional or homeopathic can have serious side effects. In the homeopathic sphere these risks are not made known.

Also, people who opt for conventional medicine tend to leave their brains at the door when they visit the doctor. I always have questions for which I demand a straightforward answer.

What's this for? Is there another way? What if I don't take your advice? How does this medicine work? What are the side-effects? And as far as conventional medications go, if they are something completely unfamiliar to me, I will consult the pharmacist and even ask for a package insert so I can do some reading and learning on my own. When a conventional physician knows that a patient is actively involved he/she realizes that the power is not his/her alone. In my nursing practice I always encouraged patients to take more charge of things and know what's what and why certain things might be needed. Patients too often tend to be passive about their medical care. This is just plain dumb. One more thing, always make sure any health practitioner - doctor, nurse, homeopathic healer - explains things fully and in plain English. Repeat the info back to make sure you've got it right.

My primary care physician encouraged me to get a colonoscopy because colon cancer risk increases in people over 50. We discussed the pros and cons of it. I'm not particularly interested and gave him to know this. He gave me the referral and said, "The choice is entirely up to you." Will I do it? I don't know. And I won't make a final decision until I get my thyroid situation under control which may not be for some months to come. Except in life-threatening situations I just don't do something "because the doctor told me". I do it because I want to do it.

Coy <catherinecoy@...> wrote:

Lee wrote: You would do well to study the history of medicine which led to the founding of the US FDA.

I HAVE studied the power-grab that occurred at the time the American Medical Association and the Food and Drug Administration were set up.

In any event, the FDA is a far cry from the guardian of the people it was set up to be.

P.S. Doctors, hospitals and pharmaceuticals are the fourth leading cause of death in the United States.

http://www.ourcivilisation.com/medicine/usamed.htm

Never place a period where God has placed a comma. - Gracie

[Guest guest]

Yes, I agree that an overhaul is long overdue. I wonder what could be put in place that would work better. Coy <catherinecoy@...> wrote:

Lee condescends: Clearly, you have been very badly hurt in some fashion and blame the medical establishment for this. I am very sorry that you have been hurt.

Where did you get that idea? I’m in perfect health. But I can read, and what I read tells me that the American medical establishment needs to be dismantled from the ground up. I could drown this board with credible links that illustrates this FACT.

Never place a period where God has placed a comma. - Gracie

[Guest guest]

Lee wrote: As much as you

condemn modern medicine…

Let me be clear. I’m

not suggesting we throw the baby out with the bathwater. If I injured myself or suffered a heart

attack, I would go directly to the emergency room for the excellent care

provided by modern medicine and hope that I wasn’t subsequently overcome

with septicemia (commonplace in hospitals). But I would seek to be discharged from

the hospital as soon as humanly possible.

Remember, the fourth cause of death is doctors, hospitals and

pharmaceuticals and no denying of that fact will change that fact.

However, when it comes to degenerative

diseases, conventional medicine does not yet know how to heal. It knows only how to treat with

pharmaceuticals, and that’s a fact, too.

Insofar as how to survive the pandemic, which is the topic of this

board, we all would again do well NOT to rely on so called modern medicine but,

with the aid of people like master herbalist Yance,

learn how to strengthen our innate immune systems so that we have more than a 45%

chance of surviving. Folks, the H5N1 strain of flu has a 55% mortality

rate. Every minute you spend

educating yourself about your immune system and how to enhance it is time well

spent, in my opinion.

Coy

Harborside Financial

Network

4839 Matney Avenue

Long Beach, CA 90807

562 422 6598 (desk)

775 703 8526 (fax)

562 243 5397 (cell)

[Flu] Re: Thank

Heavens.....!!!!!!

I am not going to pursue this discussion further,

. By all

means, continue to represent your pov here.

I want all pov of view

here, but I certainly want this site to represent

modern medicine.

Indeed, in the face of a new pandemic, people will

try all sorts of

things anyway. Nothing stopped the 1918

pandemic other than the old

public health laws, and we may well find that only

those laws will save

our society this time. As much as you

condemn modern medicine, I am

sure that you will condemn those laws more: the

old public health laws

seek neither to treat nor to heal: they seek to

isolate the disease

carriers so that some people can remain healthy to

survive to another

day.

Dismantled and replaced with

what?

> With something that really heals people

instead of " treating " them.

[Guest guest]

wrote: These

medication reactions could happen whether or not a person's in the

hospital. Being in the hospital doesn't produce such reactions. The

quantum leap in thinking here is rather great.

I see no leap there. It was

a statement of fact.

Be that as it may, , you are what Bernie Siegel calls an Exceptional Patient.

Love, Medicine and Miracles: Lessons Learned about Self-Healing from a

Surgeon's Experience with Exceptional Patients

http://tinyurl.com/cx9re

[Guest guest]

I think, then, that it has to begin with a change of attitude. Physicians used to be thought of as healers, and we still expect them to be just that. Perhaps they see it differently. I think I'll bring this up with a couple of my own docs who don't seem to be locked into traditional views. Coy <catherinecoy@...> wrote:

Lee wrote: Dismantled and replaced with what?

With something that really heals people instead of “treating” them.

Never place a period where God has placed a comma. - Gracie

[Guest guest]

wrote: Yes, I agree

that an overhaul is long overdue. I wonder what could be put in place

that would work better.

It’s called “integrative medicine” but the progress

toward making it commonplace is too slow, in my opinion. Here’s an example of such a doctor,

who applies his philosophy to cancer.

http://www.commonweal.org/pubs/choices/17.html

Block--Integrating Diet, Fitness, and Psychological Support into an

Oncology Practice

Block, M.D., is one of the significant figures in the emerging

" middle ground " approach to integrated management of cancer. Although

he has received considerable publicity in the Midwest, he is not highly visible

either in conventional cancer therapy or in alternative cancer therapy. Rather,

like many of the best individual therapists I have met, he is known to a

network of people around the country who respect his work.

Block is an example of the kind of physician we are going to need more of

in the future: a clinical internist who has conducted postgraduate research in

nutritional and behavioral oncology and who is dedicated to the judicious and

effective use of conventional cancer treatments. At the same time, he places a

strong emphasis on the use of appropriate complementary therapies as adjunctive

treatments. Although little objective evidence exists as yet on the efficacy of

Block's approach, it is nevertheless a model that could fit easily into the

future mainstream practice of hematology-oncology.

www.blockmd.com

[Guest guest]

You're right that the information is out there. The problem is that too many people don't go looking for it. This works for both conventional and non-conventional medicine. People tend to be lazy. Coy <catherinecoy@...> wrote:

wrote: In the area of herbal medicine what I generally hear is not that people have actually done their own homework but they they've heard from this or that person that compound x or y is a good treatment for ailment a.

Many master herbalists (see link) have written scholarly books on this subject. The knowledge isn’t hard to find. It’s a lot easier, to be sure, to just jump in the car and go see a white coat which is, of course, why most people take that road. But if you want an edge, an extra measure of healing or protection from illness, you must do your homework.

http://tinyurl.com/asogg

Here’s an eBook on how to avoid the flu:

Beat the Bird Flu and Survive the Pandemic

http://www.truthpublishing.com/survivinginfluenza.html

Never place a period where God has placed a comma. - Gracie

[Guest guest]

Question: Is there a difference between treating with pharmaceuticals and treating with homeopathic medicinals? Is one better than the other? Coy <catherinecoy@...> wrote:

Lee wrote: As much as you condemn modern medicine…

Let me be clear. I’m not suggesting we throw the baby out with the bathwater. If I injured myself or suffered a heart attack, I would go directly to the emergency room for the excellent care provided by modern medicine and hope that I wasn’t subsequently overcome with septicemia (commonplace in hospitals). But I would seek to be discharged from the hospital as soon as humanly possible. Remember, the fourth cause of death is doctors, hospitals and pharmaceuticals and no denying of that fact will change that fact.

However, when it comes to degenerative diseases, conventional medicine does not yet know how to heal. It knows only how to treat with pharmaceuticals, and that’s a fact, too.

Insofar as how to survive the pandemic, which is the topic of this board, we all would again do well NOT to rely on so called modern medicine but, with the aid of people like master herbalist Yance, learn how to strengthen our innate immune systems so that we have more than a 45% chance of surviving. Folks, the H5N1 strain of flu has a 55% mortality rate. Every minute you spend educating yourself about your immune system and how to enhance it is time well spent, in my opinion.

Coy

Harborside Financial Network

4839 Matney Avenue

Long Beach, CA 90807

562 422 6598 (desk)

775 703 8526 (fax)

562 243 5397 (cell)

-----Original Message-----From: Flu [mailto:Flu ] On Behalf Of LeeSent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 8:53 PMFlu Subject: [Flu] Re: Thank Heavens.....!!!!!!

I am not going to pursue this discussion further, . By all means, continue to represent your pov here. I want all pov of view here, but I certainly want this site to represent modern medicine. Indeed, in the face of a new pandemic, people will try all sorts of things anyway. Nothing stopped the 1918 pandemic other than the old public health laws, and we may well find that only those laws will save our society this

time. As much as you condemn modern medicine, I am sure that you will condemn those laws more: the old public health laws seek neither to treat nor to heal: they seek to isolate the disease carriers so that some people can remain healthy to survive to another day. Dismantled and replaced with what?> With something that really heals people instead of "treating" them.

[Guest guest]

said: People tend to be

lazy.

I think it’s more that people tend to be frightened. In my circle of family and friends, I’m

the laboring oar for researching the bird flu crisis. Many of my friends have come right out and

said, “I don’t want to read about it every day. It frightens me. , just tell me what to do.” So I’m doing my best to sift through

the rhetoric and figure out what’s credible and what’s not. Purchase N-95 masks is credible advice. Look to the sky for chemtrails

is not.

[Guest guest]

wrote: Is there a

difference between treating with pharmaceuticals and treating with homeopathic medicinals?

Is one better than the other?

I don’t know anything about homeopathic medicinals

so I can’t offer an informed opinion.

I know plenty about toxic pharmaceuticals and the corrupt

pharmaceuticals industry, so I would say that anything is better than that.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the Exceptional Patient tag. Coy <catherinecoy@...> wrote:

wrote: These medication reactions could happen whether or not a person's in the hospital. Being in the hospital doesn't produce such reactions. The quantum leap in thinking here is rather great.

I see no leap there. It was a statement of fact.

Be that as it may, , you are what Bernie Siegel calls an Exceptional Patient.

Love, Medicine and Miracles: Lessons Learned about Self-Healing from a Surgeon's Experience with Exceptional Patients

http://tinyurl.com/cx9re

Never place a period where God has placed a comma. - Gracie

[Guest guest]

My own primary care doc is more in the Dr. Block mode; and I think this is because his initial medical education was in osteopathy - another way of looking at things. Coy <catherinecoy@...> wrote:

wrote: Yes, I agree that an overhaul is long overdue. I wonder what could be put in place that would work better.

It’s called “integrative medicine” but the progress toward making it commonplace is too slow, in my opinion. Here’s an example of such a doctor, who applies his philosophy to cancer.

http://www.commonweal.org/pubs/choices/17.html

Block--Integrating Diet, Fitness, and Psychological Support into an Oncology Practice

Block, M.D., is one of the significant figures in the emerging "middle ground" approach to integrated management of cancer. Although he has received considerable publicity in the Midwest, he is not highly visible either in conventional cancer therapy or in alternative cancer therapy. Rather, like many of the best individual therapists I have met, he is known to a network of people around the country who respect his work.

Block is an example of the kind of physician we are going to need more of in the future: a clinical internist who has conducted postgraduate research in nutritional and behavioral oncology and who is dedicated to the judicious and effective use of conventional cancer treatments. At the same time, he places a strong emphasis on the use of appropriate complementary therapies as adjunctive treatments. Although little objective evidence exists as yet on the efficacy of Block's approach, it is nevertheless a model that could fit easily into the future mainstream practice of hematology-oncology.

www.blockmd.com

Never place a period where God has placed a comma. - Gracie

[Guest guest]

Yes, people do tend to be frightened; and this is why I would like to see our Surgeon General step up and talk to the nation about this. I remember when everyone was hysterical about AIDS and the then Surgeon General caused educational material to be sent free of charge to every household in the US. I don't know if that's what's necessary now, but I think our SG should instruct our citizenry about avian flu. This is his job. The more objective facts given, the less people will be frightened. Coy <catherinecoy@...> wrote:

said: People tend to be lazy.

I think it’s more that people tend to be frightened. In my circle of family and friends, I’m the laboring oar for researching the bird flu crisis. Many of my friends have come right out and said, “I don’t want to read about it every day. It frightens me. , just tell me what to do.” So I’m doing my best to sift through the rhetoric and figure out what’s credible and what’s not. Purchase N-95 masks is credible advice. Look to the sky for chemtrails is not.

Never place a period where God has placed a comma. - Gracie

[Guest guest]

wrote: I would like to

see our Surgeon General step up and talk to the nation about this.

For me, it wouldn’t matter what he said. He would be speaking the party line (conventional

medicine) about “we’re going to find a vaccine” when none can

be found, and “we’re doing all we can” when “all we can”

isn’t good enough.

I still recommend everyone do their own homework, as you have suggested.

[Guest guest]

Myself, I'm not too sure that all pharmaceuticals are toxic. Yes, they have side effects in some people, but those side effects are not experienced by everyone who takes coventional medicines. What about, for instance, medications used by diabetics to control their blood sugar when diet alone will not do this? Coy <catherinecoy@...> wrote:

wrote: Is there a difference between treating with pharmaceuticals and treating with homeopathic medicinals? Is one better than the other?

I don’t know anything about homeopathic medicinals so I can’t offer an informed opinion. I know plenty about toxic pharmaceuticals and the corrupt pharmaceuticals industry, so I would say that anything is better than that.

Never place a period where God has placed a comma. - Gracie