Re: hybrids

[Guest guest]

Ann,

Dr. D'Adamo says that wheat is the result of scientific alteration of the

original grain in order to make it more resistant to disease, and provide the

farmer with greater harvest yields. I don't have any direct knowledge of how

this is done. But I do know that the grain triticale is also a hybrid. I

believe it is a hybrid of rye and wheat.

Kathleen

[Guest guest]

Kathleen,

Thank you for replying. I wonder about all the food tampering, and yet i

never suspected good ole' wheat. I am sure it's still okay for some people,

but i hear a lot about wheat allergies and wonder if that's due to the

scientific alteration to make it more resistant to disease.

Also, since Ezekiel Bread is an HB, I take it that our type O system does not

respond to it as a grain, really, because the sprouting removes that

characteristic. I wonder WHY a bread can be an HB for us. I even thought

maybe cuz of the sprouting and enzymes, our body thinks of it as almost a

" vegetable " .

Anyways,

I love it and have no problems with it.

Ann

[Guest guest]

> Hi Chi,

> It is very obvious that you are against the use of hybrid

> vegetables. I have some questions concerning the

> information in the quote I included below from your

> posting dated, Jan 21, 2003.

> " Understand, however, the potential of the hybrid to produce

> nutrition in any soil is reduced compared to the open

> pollinated in the same soil. The hybrid is genetically engineered

> (but not a GMO which is cross species) to increase yield

> at the expense of nutrition and to be easier to grow in

> depleted soils. If a farmer says he is interested in nutrtion

> and at the same time, says he grows hybrids, I just laugh

> out loud and walk away. "

> Does this information apply to all hybrids or just certain ones

> under certain conditions?

If you are asking if the potential of the hybrid to produce

nutrition in any soil is reduced compared to the open pollinated in

the same soil applies to all hybrids or just certain ones under

certain conditions, the answer is yes, I would apply it to all

hybrids.

> I have been looking for information on this subject but

> I find little that is clear and concise.

> Most people state opinions but have little to back them up.

> You seem to take a very solid stand on the subject so I

> assume you have data to back it up. Please tell me where can

> I find documented proof that hybrids are not capable of

> producing food as nutritious as open pollinated vegetables in the

> same soil?

>

> Thanks, Jlin

I am not surprised that you can't find clear and concise information

on a subject that makes agriculture look bad, or criminal, depending

on your point of view.

I have data to back up everything I state. In this case see 1/ " The

Albrecht Papers " , Volume II, Chapter 4, " Nutritious Feeds via Soil

Fertility and Not Plant Pedigrees " , page 32, and 2/ " Soil Grass and

Cancer " by Andre Voisin, Chapter 17, " New strains of white clover

which cause bloat and affect the thyroid gland " .

Both books are available from Acres, U.S.A. and there is much more

information in them regarding the primary role that soil fertility

plays in nutrition.

Chi

[Guest guest]

> > Hi Chi,

> > It is very obvious that you are against the use of hybrid

> > vegetables. I have some questions concerning the

> > information in the quote I included below from your

> > posting dated, Jan 21, 2003.

> > " Understand, however, the potential of the hybrid to produce

> > nutrition in any soil is reduced compared to the open

> > pollinated in the same soil. The hybrid is genetically engineered

> > (but not a GMO which is cross species) to increase yield

> > at the expense of nutrition and to be easier to grow in

> > depleted soils. If a farmer says he is interested in nutrtion

> > and at the same time, says he grows hybrids, I just laugh

> > out loud and walk away. "

>

> > Does this information apply to all hybrids or just certain ones

> > under certain conditions?

>

> If you are asking if the potential of the hybrid to produce

> nutrition in any soil is reduced compared to the open pollinated in

> the same soil applies to all hybrids or just certain ones under

> certain conditions, the answer is yes, I would apply it to all

> hybrids.

>

> > I have been looking for information on this subject but

> > I find little that is clear and concise.

> > Most people state opinions but have little to back them up.

> > You seem to take a very solid stand on the subject so I

> > assume you have data to back it up. Please tell me where can

> > I find documented proof that hybrids are not capable of

> > producing food as nutritious as open pollinated vegetables in the

> > same soil?

> >

> > Thanks, Jlin

>

> I am not surprised that you can't find clear and concise

information

> on a subject that makes agriculture look bad, or criminal,

depending

> on your point of view.

> I have data to back up everything I state. In this case see 1/ " The

> Albrecht Papers " , Volume II, Chapter 4, " Nutritious Feeds via Soil

> Fertility and Not Plant Pedigrees " , page 32, and 2/ " Soil Grass and

> Cancer " by Andre Voisin, Chapter 17, " New strains of white clover

> which cause bloat and affect the thyroid gland " .

> Both books are available from Acres, U.S.A. and there is much more

> information in them regarding the primary role that soil fertility

> plays in nutrition.

> Chi

Hi Chi,

I'm very interested in the information that might be available

in " The Albrecht Papers " , Volume II. I notice that you refer to

the " The Albrecht Papers " often. Acres is currently out of them and

I can not find a used copy anywhere. I was informed the Acres will

be reprinting them this spring so I will have to wait a bit to get a

copy. I will be very interested to see what foods he used in his

study as well as how the actual comparisons were made.

If you have any further comments I would be interested in them

otherwise I will wait until I get my copy of " The Albrecht Papers " .

Jlin

[Guest guest]

> I'm very interested in the information that might be

> available in " The Albrecht Papers " , Volume II.

> I notice that you refer to the " The Albrecht Papers " often.

> Acres is currently out of them and I can not find a used

> copy anywhere. I was informed the Acres will be reprinting

> them this spring so I will have to wait a bit to get a

> copy. I will be very interested to see what foods he used in his

> study as well as how the actual comparisons were made.

>

> If you have any further comments I would be interested in them

> otherwise I will wait until I get my copy of " The Albrecht Papers " .

>

> Jlin

OK, I will tell you about this since you can't get a copy of the

book yet. Quoting Albrecht:

" That the increasing yield per acre (dry matter) of different plant

species in their ecological arrangement should mean that it is made

up of more carbohydrates but of less and less protein, or less and

less nitrogen (N), has been worked out to a mathematical refinement

in the so-called Inverse Yield-Nitrogen Law of Nature, by O.W.

Wilcox, published as a mimeographed track in June 1956. This

arrangement shows how the tremendous yield of bulk per acre and the

very low concentration of protein, (N times 6.25) in the case of

sugarcane as one of the grasses, fits the curve of this law as do

the high concentrations of protein in the legumes, like soybeans,

but with their smaller yields of hay per acre. Corn, another one of

the grasses, can have considerable concentrations of nitrogen.

However, the introduction of hybrids has reduced that while the

starch and fodder yields have gone up. Hybridization has been the

equivalent of pushing the physiological performances by the corn

plant down to make it duplicate more nearly those of sugarcane. By

this manipulation, we have pushed this crop's production of protein

nearly down and out for growing young animals. "

Crops that produce more carbohydrate and less protein place less

demand on the soil. Thus yields can be maintained in declining soil

fertility where crops that produce more protein with less

carbohydrate can no longer be grown. To a farmer growing crops,

yield is important, nutrition isn't, even if the farmer doesn't use

poisons.

Chi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/9/04 3:32:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

135798642goodkind@... writes:

>

> Its interesting to observe that the first thing a hybrid does is try

> to produce either NON-HYBRID offspring or NO offspring. You reckon

> that's natures way of telling us the hybrid wasn't such a good idea?

Hmm. Same goes for the SAD diet and humans!

Chris

[Guest guest]

Its interesting to observe that the first thing a hybrid does is try

to produce either NON-HYBRID offspring or NO offspring. You reckon

that's natures way of telling us the hybrid wasn't such a good idea?

Darrell

[Guest guest]

> Its interesting to observe that the first thing a hybrid

> does is try to produce either NON-HYBRID offspring

> or NO offspring. You reckon that's natures way of telling us

> the hybrid wasn't such a good idea?

Hi Darrell:

Could be. One might wonder who does the better job designing

genetics. In my opinion, it isn't us (and it isn't a close contest).

Our attempts to redesign nature have no chance to work in the long

run. Perhaps one day we will wake up to that and simply try to

understand nature and then work with nature and then just sit back

and marvel at how nature works, given just a little support.

Chi

[Guest guest]

>Its interesting to observe that the first thing a hybrid does is try

>to produce either NON-HYBRID offspring or NO offspring. You reckon

>that's natures way of telling us the hybrid wasn't such a good idea?

>

>Darrell

But is this something intrinsic to the nature of a hybrid,

or is the type of breeding they are doing? My understanding

of hybrids is that one of the reasons they are produced is

that they DON'T reproduce consistently ... i.e. the seed companies want

a breed such that they can sell more seeds. But that isn't

an issue with " hybrids " in general, in my understanding

of the word. So I guess I'm asking: in what sense, exactly,

are you using the word? (see definition below).

My understanding is that the real problem here is that the

plants can't change or evolve in response to environmental

factors ... if a farmer saves seeds and replants them, s/he

tends to get plants that do best in THAT particular field.

But if a farmer plants several varieties and they pollinate

each other, that farmer may in fact be creating " hybrids " in

the sense the word is often used ... but the hybrids might

be really great plants and really nutritious, if that is

what s/he selects for.

OTOH if a seed company starts selecting for traits in

corn that aren't nutritious, the corn might be non-nutritious

even if it isn't " hybrid " .

Just playing devil's advocate here as far as the use of

the word. The commercial breeds do tend to be less nutritious

etc. as far as I've read ... heirloom breeds have much to

commend them (including the fact you can save the seed ...).

-- Heidi Jean

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Hybrid

Hybrid

<http://www.wordiq.com/definition//definition/Da:Bastard>da:Bastard

<http://www.wordiq.com/definition//definition/De:Hybrid>de:Hybrid

This article is about a biological term. See

<http://www.wordiq.com/definition//definition/Hybrid_%28disambiguation%29>hybrid

(disambiguation) for other meanings.

In <http://www.wordiq.com/definition//definition/Biology>biology, hybrid has two

meanings. The first meaning is either the offspring of two different

<http://www.wordiq.com/definition//definition/Species>species, or of two

different <http://www.wordiq.com/definition//definition/Genera>genera. The

second meaning of " hybrid " is crosses between populations or

<http://www.wordiq.com/definition//definition/Cultivar>cultivars ( " cultivated

varieties " ) of a single species. This second meaning is often used in plant

breeding. Hybrids between species of the same genus are sometimes known as

interspecific hybrids or crosses. Hybrids between different genera are sometimes

known as intergeneric hybrids.

Ernst Mayr wrote of

<http://www.wordiq.com/definition//definition/Gregor_Mendel>Gregor Mendel, " He

was uncertain about the nature of the kinds of peas he crossed, and, like most

plant breeders, he called

<http://www.wordiq.com/definition//definition/Heterozygote>heterozygotes

" hybrids. " When he tried to confirm the laws he had found by using " other

hybrids " that were actually real species hybrids, he failed. The use of the same

term " hybrid " for two entirely different biological phenomena thwarted his later

efforts. " (This is Biology, 1997, p58f).

Plant hybrids, especially, may or may not be stronger than either parent

variety, a phenomenon which when present is known as

<http://www.wordiq.com/definition//definition/Heterosis>hybrid vigour. In

animals, hybrids often manifest reduced fertility or, like the

<http://www.wordiq.com/definition//definition/Mule>mule are sterile.