Re: Re: bacon: nitrites, nitrates, pastured, etc

[Guest guest]

Every hear of " side pork " ? Around here (Michigan) it is usually inexpensive

and is nothing but uncured bacon. I haven't looked at in a long time, so

will check price next time I go the store.

Judith Alta

-----Original Message-----

Uncured bacon in our natural foods market is anywhere from $5 to $8

per half pound!!! talk about luxury food... but when i do decide to

buy it, i save every last drop of fat for use in other foods.

I'm not sure the difference in nitrites vs. nitrates, but I know that

it's the heating of those things that causes them to turn into

carcinogens. I have also heard the take vit. C thing, as in orange

juice etc. while eating cooked meat. i cook my bacon at as low a temp

as I can stand (it's so hard not to turn it up, when you smell it you

want to eat it!!) I don't know how bad regular cured bacon is, but if

i decide to buy it I don't save the grease, usually give to the dog

or throw it away.

> Niman Ranch also makes an uncured bacon, with no nitrites or

> nitrates added. Try requesting it from the store where you

> bought the cured bacon. The Trader Joe's in my area carries

> both.

>

> Aubin

[Guest guest]

>Naturally hogs will eat anything. I have heard of them eating chain. I

>doubt that you would want to eat a hog left to get his food by himself,

>they are scavengers. When I was a kid my dad had all his hogs on pasture

>except for those going to market, They will root around and destroy

>things, and like I said earlier, eat anything.

He he. I worked with a guy who put himself through college raising hogs.

He went to the restaurants and hauled away their scraps (and stuff off

people's plates) and fed it to the hogs, then sold them. I have no idea

if that was " good " for the hogs or not, or even if it was legal (couldn't

the hogs catch something from the people?) but he was quite successful.

I'd imagine one could raise a hog from grocery store scraps -- I have

talked to them, they throw out HUGE amounts of food, but

they don't want to haul them to someone who can use them,

so they put them in the dumpster.

(Again, I don't know if this provides a balanced hog diet! My chickens

seem to be ok with our food scraps though plus some supplement).

Heidi S

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/17/03 2:43:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,

mkbrenne@... writes:

> Naturally hogs will eat anything. I have heard of them eating chain. I

> doubt that you would want to eat a hog left to get his food by himself,

they

> are scavengers. When I was a kid my dad had all his hogs on pasture except

> for those going to market, They will root around and destroy things, and

> like I said earlier, eat anything.

At OSV I once saw a lamp trying to eat the wall of a shed

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

btw the uncured bacon in these parts goes roughly $4 for 12 ounces, which is

the exact same price as the regular center cut bacon from the supermarket.

the uncured is usually center cut, so there's no increase in price. trader

joe's has niman ranch's bacon for $3.79, even though NR sells it through

their websiste for $7.75!

Chris

____

" What can one say of a soul, of a heart, filled with compassion? It is a

heart which burns with love for every creature: for human beings, birds, and

animals, for serpents and for demons. The thought of them and the sight of

them make the tears of the saint flow. And this immense and intense

compassion, which flows from the heart of the saints, makes them unable to

bear the sight of the smallest, most insignificant wound in any creature.

Thus they pray ceaselessly, with tears, even for animals, for enemies of the

truth, and for those who do them wrong. "

--Saint Isaac the Syrian

[Guest guest]

At 05:22 AM 2/18/03 -0500, you wrote:

>In a message dated 2/17/03 2:43:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,

>mkbrenne@... writes:

>

>> Naturally hogs will eat anything.  I have heard of them eating chain.  I

>> doubt that you would want to eat a hog left to get his food by himself,

>they

>> are scavengers.  When I was a kid my dad had all his hogs on pasture

except

>> for those going to market,  They will root around and destroy things, and

>> like I said earlier, eat anything. 

Back in the early 60's my Dad worked for a man who had the contract to pick up

a local town's kitchen scraps. They had to be separated from the non food

refuse. It was all fed to pigs. Don't think they were grain fed too.Had a

large

area to root in. Few years we had pigs if one of our chickens mistakenly got

into the pen they wouldn't make it out. Pigs won't eat citrus is a general

rule

I've found.

Don't know about chain eating but it used to be a common practice for beef and

dairy farmers to give them a magnet which they'd willingly eat. This was to

attract any metal like nails they would eat so they wouldn't get perforated

intestines. When Dad had the slaughterhouse prior to the piggery there he'd

shown me quite a few magnets out of bovine stomachs with various hardware

attached. Maybe mineral licks have broke this metal craving.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

Kim-

>There are probably people out there who do feed their pigs fryer oil but

>it is very rare and I don't see how they could stay in business long.

Perhaps they feed used oil is a " finishing " feed? Or perhaps it makes its

way into commercial fodder? I only know that I've read that all kinds of

toxic waste like used fryer oil winds up being fed to pigs instead of

directly disposed of, and there's obviously a substantial market pressure

to monetize wastes like that, so it's understandable, if only in its own

sick way.

>Hog farmers have _responded to market demand_ and through genetics have

>reduced the fat in pork so it is nil.

I know. It's extremely depressing. Even many alternative-type farmers

make a point of raising lowfat hogs. The damage we've done to our food

supply is staggering.

>They also care about what the pig eats because it makes for healthy or

>unhealthy animals, these animals are the farmers livelihood, he is not

>going to feed them junk. He will feed them whatever is healthiest for the

>pig, and what the consumer demands in the final product.

Well, I don't think corn and soy are healthiest for the pig. The health of

the pig is only a concern insofar as it impacts yield and profit. I don't

know about pigs specifically, but I know there's a terrible turnover in

battery laying hens, and I know more and more meat cows are destroyed

rather than sold. Sooner or later the system is going to break down, but

at the moment it's sustaining an enormous amount of ill health in our meat

animals.

>My 1st point is to demonstrate to you that farmers do care about the

>nutrition that their animals get and that they also listen to consumer demand.

I'd have to disagree with you here: the high levels of phosphorous in

manure was becoming a serious economic problem for farmers, so they added

phytase to their feed to reduce the expense of dealing with the manure, not

because they were concerned about the health of their hogs. Hell, if it

takes years for phtates to cause major problems in humans, how obvious do

you think the problems will be in hogs which live just long enough to be

killed and eaten?

>My 2nd point is to show you that PETA and the other animal rights

>activists, environmentalists, and others with some sort of agenda simply

>do not know what they are talking about. They spew a lot of half truths

>and inflammatory false information.

Oh, I agree completely. Some of those people, particularly PETAns, are

dangerous ignoramuses. In fact, they could wind up being every bit as

dangerous as the vermin who got us into our current delightful mess.

>Tell a live farmer what you want in a product, tell a farm journalist,

>show him the research to back your position. Surely sooner or later the

> " diet dictocrats " will have to wise up.

Sure, but again only because of market demands. If hog farmers can't sell

lard, they're going to breed for lean hogs instead of wasting money

producing pig fat.

>Another thing that I have been reading about in the cattle industry papers

>is about ranchers responding to consumer demand and raising grass fed beef.

There is an increase in grass-fed beef, and I hope it'll keep increasing,

but at least at the moment it's still just a drop in the bucket. Maybe

we'll get there eventually.

>So I'll say it again, go for a drive, find a farmer, tell him what you

>want and ask him to produce it for you for a price better than what the

>packer will give him. It will be far less than what you would pay on the

>retail end.

Actually, I may wind up having such an arrangement sometime this year, but

it's not actually easy at all for a farmer to raise most of his pigs one

way and one (or a handful) a completely different way.

-

[Guest guest]

I just wanted to add here... They used the fat for more than just cooking! Soap

making, Lamp burning, etc

a

----- Original Message -----

From: dkemnitz2000 <dkemnitz2000@...>

Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 7:43 PM

Subject: Re: bacon: nitrites, nitrates, pastured, etc

--- I don't think farmers ever made any money or got paid for

extra fat on a hog. 50 years ago slaughter hogs had more fat on them

but consumers didn't want fat, they wanted ham and bacon. And a

little lard for baking. I'd bet the " leaner " hogs of today yield

plenty of lard for all of todays baking needs. If you fry bacon

today, you'll see there is plenty of fat there to fry the eggs in

that bacon grease and have enough left over for the rest of your days

needs..

In , Idol <Idol@c...> wrote:

> Kim-

>

> > Sure, but again only because of market demands. If hog farmers

can't sell

> lard, they're going to breed for lean hogs instead of wasting money

> producing pig fat.

>

[Guest guest]

Oops, that would be a little longer than 50 years ago people would make these

things, although my mom is 52 and grew up in rural America and they did not have

any indoor plumbing until she was 8 or 9 and they made lots of their own stuff

even then.

a

----- Original Message -----

From: dkemnitz2000 <dkemnitz2000@...>

Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 7:43 PM

Subject: Re: bacon: nitrites, nitrates, pastured, etc

--- I don't think farmers ever made any money or got paid for

extra fat on a hog. 50 years ago slaughter hogs had more fat on them

but consumers didn't want fat, they wanted ham and bacon. And a

little lard for baking. I'd bet the " leaner " hogs of today yield

plenty of lard for all of todays baking needs. If you fry bacon

today, you'll see there is plenty of fat there to fry the eggs in

that bacon grease and have enough left over for the rest of your days

needs..

In , Idol <Idol@c...> wrote:

> Kim-

>

> > Sure, but again only because of market demands. If hog farmers

can't sell

> lard, they're going to breed for lean hogs instead of wasting money

> producing pig fat.

>

[Guest guest]

Dean-

>--- I don't think farmers ever made any money or got paid for

>extra fat on a hog. 50 years ago slaughter hogs had more fat on them

>but consumers didn't want fat, they wanted ham and bacon. And a

>little lard for baking. I'd bet the " leaner " hogs of today yield

>plenty of lard for all of todays baking needs.

Sure they did, though a lot of the lard was doubtless for their own

consumption. People made lard biscuits, cooked with lard, preserved food

with lard, made soap with lard, etc. etc. etc., not to mention making

sausage with the un-rendered fat. There was a HUGE demand for lard and pig

fat.

As to today's pigs, no, they don't. I've talked to several farmers who say

their lean hogs don't yield ANY fat for lard or sausage-making at all.

-

[Guest guest]

If you've not eaten fresh apple pie in a crust made with lard you just

haven't lived! (bad thing is it was white flour.) : (

Judith Alta

-----Original Message-----

Dean-

>--- I don't think farmers ever made any money or got paid for

>extra fat on a hog. 50 years ago slaughter hogs had more fat on them

>but consumers didn't want fat, they wanted ham and bacon. And a

>little lard for baking. I'd bet the " leaner " hogs of today yield

>plenty of lard for all of todays baking needs.

Sure they did, though a lot of the lard was doubtless for their own

consumption. People made lard biscuits, cooked with lard, preserved food

with lard, made soap with lard, etc. etc. etc., not to mention making

sausage with the un-rendered fat. There was a HUGE demand for lard and pig

fat.

As to today's pigs, no, they don't. I've talked to several farmers who say

their lean hogs don't yield ANY fat for lard or sausage-making at all.

-

[Guest guest]

Dean-

>Furthermore, I'd bet the wild hogs of years and years ago,

>which " foraged " in the woods were very lean and probably still had

>plenty of pork belly fat.

Maybe, maybe not. Remember that there's a very big difference between

young animals (and meat animals are typically slaughtered very young

nowadays) and old animals. Native Americans, for example, had a strong

preference for older bison because older ones had had time to accumulate a

large slab of back fat. I have no specific information on wild boars and

pigs, but I'm betting that they were similar.

>Now it may have been of different fat

>profile than todays lean hogs.

No doubt, and from fat grain-fed hogs too.

-

[Guest guest]

Except for the chickens and the pie, we didn't do all of that. We did have

cows and pigs but I don't remember rendering lard.

I wouldn't trade my country upbringing for love nor money, but I'm not sure,

at my age, that I want to go back to being a slave to animals. Even though

we have the location and the room.

Enjoy! ;-)

Judith Alta

-----Original Message-----

From: dkemnitz2000 <dkemnitz2000@...> [mailto:dkemnitz2000@...]

---Ya, I ate that as a kid.We used cheap white flour too! We rendered

lard, slaughtered chickens, ate apple pie and homemade ice cream.

Slopped hogs too! It's so different than life in the city. I

currently have a hog which WAS lean, ready to butcher which is very

fat! I hope to make some apple pies with the lard but not soap. And

I'm going to hire the butcher to slaughter the hog as it's one heck

of a lot of work to do that.

In , " Judith Alta Kidder "

<jaltak@v...> wrote:

> If you've not eaten fresh apple pie in a crust made with lard you

just

> haven't lived! (bad thing is it was white flour.) : (

>

> Judith Alta

>

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

Points well taken and I have to agree with you on every one. Well said.

There is a reason that I'm on this list! : )

Try finding a SMALL farmer, he probably also has a job in town to support

himself, that's our situation. dh wants to be full time but $$$ is the issue.

Kim Brenneman

[Guest guest]

<<<<<<As to today's pigs, no, they don't. I've talked to several farmers who

say

their lean hogs don't yield ANY fat for lard or sausage-making at all.

>>>>>>

Last summer my son raised show pigs for the 4-H fair, he had a Reserve Grand

Champion. This was very exciting for him......

but you should have seen these pigs, they looked like body builders. Complete

muscle. And this is all through genetics and feed.

I don't even know if you can buy an old fashioned pig, if they even exist. Like

I've said the fat is totally bred out of them. These pigs looked totally

different than the pigs I grew up with and I'm only 32.

Kim Brenneman

[Guest guest]

>Also, lye soap is great soap for the skin, i've read that it can cure

>any skin ailment.

I've tried a butter soap and a coconut oil soap made with lye, and I found

both very harsh and drying. Perhaps too much lye was used so there was

some left over?

>i would rather

>take my chances with an all vegetable soap or lard soap.

Where do you get your soaps?

-

[Guest guest]

Kim-

>Try finding a SMALL farmer, he probably also has a job in town to support

>himself, that's our situation. dh wants to be full time but $$$ is the

>issue.

I sure understand that. It's a miserable situation. However, it does seem

that NT-type farmers get to charge something of a premium for their

products, particularly grass-fed dairy farmers, so maybe that sort of

farming would help you out. Or maybe not. I don't know. I do know that I

want to be rich enough someday to buy a farm and hire people to work the

farm. <G>

-

[Guest guest]

<<<<<<<<<<<<

I sure understand that. It's a miserable situation. However, it does seem

that NT-type farmers get to charge something of a premium for their

products, particularly grass-fed dairy farmers, so maybe that sort of

farming would help you out. Or maybe not. I don't know. I do know that I

want to be rich enough someday to buy a farm and hire people to work the

farm. <G>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

This is what I tell my husband all the time...

aahhh Someday...

He didn't want to hear what I was saying about grass fed being healthier tech

stuff until HE READ ABOUT IT IN A FARM PAPER!!! Can you tell I was insulted?

Now, he gives me a little more credence about the stuff I talk about and he says

he will raise our food healthier in the future. One step at a time. I still

have hope! : )

Kim Brenneman

[Guest guest]

I think so too. I am right now in an apartment, but we are getting ready to

move into an old farmhouse end of summer and I CAN " T WAIT until I can start a

garden and maybe even keep some chickens. Everyone who posesses the slightest

bit of land is lucky.

[Guest guest]

Oh I remember those! My dad used to use the magnets... I do not remember seeing

any of those magnets around the barn though any more. I only help out when they

need an extra hand. They also do not use any metal wires and hardware for

fencing the pasture any more...

a

----- Original Message -----

From: ghislainedel <Ghislaine@...>

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 3:14 PM

Subject: Re: bacon: nitrites, nitrates, pastured, etc

> Don't know about chain eating but it used to be a common practice

for beef and

> dairy farmers to give them a magnet which they'd willingly eat.

This was to

> attract any metal like nails they would eat so they wouldn't get

perforated

> intestines. When Dad had the slaughterhouse prior to the piggery

there he'd

> shown me quite a few magnets out of bovine stomachs with various

hardware

> attached. Maybe mineral licks have broke this metal craving.

>

> Wanita

Actually this is still done. There is a group called Homestead

Cow that had a discussion about it a while back.

Ghislaine

[Guest guest]

>Actually this is still done. There is a group called Homestead

>Cow that had a discussion about it a while back.

>

>Ghislaine

They sell the magnets at the local coop. Called " Cow magnets " . Really

fun to play with!

Heidi S

[Guest guest]

Hi Dennis:

I agree, lots of land in the city without food bearing plants. A few blocks

from me there are houses with large front yards. Not mine, by the way.

(Who knows how large their backyards are! I can only guess from the tract

maps I've seen of the area.) These front lawns are all ornamental.

Sometimes I wonder what a bushman or some tribe person must think if they

ever visited this place. Maybe something like, " Where are all the cattle or

livestock? " All this grass seems like such a waste.

Marla

> ---Farming is the dream of many people. And many people farm. But I

> have a different definition of farming than the local inspector and

> the local government. I believe anyone who takes care of his/her half

> acre or his/her front yard using sustainable agronomy is a farmer.

> Lots of food can be grown in the front/back yard whether in the city

> or the country.

>

[Guest guest]

I went to the local harvest link yesterday that was posted. Found a pig farmer

in the area who boasted that they fed their pigs bread and grain to get the

flavor that was desirable. Hum. . .

Donna

----- Original Message -----

From: Idol

Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 4:13 PM

Subject: Re: Re: bacon: nitrites, nitrates, pastured, etc

Kim-

>There are probably people out there who do feed their pigs fryer oil but

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: floutdoorcpl <bchbmnsgrbr@...>

Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 5:40 AM

Subject: Re: bacon: nitrites, nitrates, pastured, etc

Also, lye soap is great soap for the skin, i've read that it can cure any skin

ailment. i don't know if it's true, but i have used it before and i like it.

it's not good for hair becuase it doesn't rinse as clean in my hard water.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would think it would work good for skin cancer of precancerous skin lesions

as it is so alkaline and cancer thrives in acid.

???

Donna

[Guest guest]

,

could you please post the link for that article?

TIA

Dedy

----- Original Message -----

From: Stanley <johnny_tesla@...>

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 2:35 PM

Subject: Re: bacon: nitrites, nitrates, pastured, etc

> it's true that lye is caustic, but once you turn it into soap

> it's not dangerous. lard as we all know is a more natural fat

> than some chemical conconction like dove, which by the way i

> recently learned is processed somehow with mercury and although

> it's not added, does contain traces of mercury in the finished

> product. i would rather take my chances with an all vegetable

> soap or lard soap.

I'd never heard that before, so I did a google search on 'dove soap

mercury' and found an army.mil site containing a document showing the

mercury content of various products and this little tidbit: " The

mercury-cell process is one of the processes that may be used to

manufacture common ingredients of cleaners and degreasers: sodium

hydroxide, potassium hydroxide, chlorine and hydrochloric acid. When

these chemicals are used to make other products, such as bleach or

soaps, mercury contamination can be introduced in the final product. "

If that's the case, any soap can have mercury in it if the sodium

hydroxide (lye) it was made with contains mercury.

[Guest guest]

,

unfortunately, neither link worked for me... any ideas?

TIA

Dedy

----- Original Message -----

From: Stanley <johnny_tesla@...>

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 6:09 PM

Subject: Re: bacon: nitrites, nitrates, pastured, etc

> ,

> could you please post the link for that article?

http://chppm-www.apgea.army.mil/dsa-west/EHED/Proj

ects/Mercury/Mercury%20Alt%20in%20Hosp.doc

which I shortened to:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?U22412A83