Re: Gallstones: Causes/ cures??

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I'm in the same boat as you. I have gallstone pain and I am reading all I can

on non-surgical methods of dealing with it.

So far I have changed my diet to the Dr. Mirkin diet

see: http://www.drmirkin.com and it has worked great..

I know it seems harsh not to eat prime rib, ice cream and pizza but after

about a month you won't crave these foods anymore.

Another important lifestyle change is exercise. This really helps

your bile acids keep in balance.

I haven't tried them yet but I'm interested in Chinese herbs and acapuncture

and may also consider some cleansing.

I think surgical removal is extreme and doesn't deal with the underlying

cause of the imbalance causing stones. Here is a pretty well researched

paper on ther subject. Good Luck!

http://www.nat-med.com/archives/gallstones.htm

Bramer wrote:

> Thank you, Dale for responding to 's e-mail question. I'd asked

> the same question when I joined the listserve a few days ago and got no

> responses.

>

> I think if we are actually passing gallstones that the medical community

> (or at least a research scientist somewhere) would be more than happy to

> confirm that fact. I find it odd that the findings are inconclusive at

> best. Surely they have some actual gallstones taken from people who've

> had their gallbladders out to compare these green things to. It's not

> rocket science.

>

> I'm of a cautious nature and would definitely be willing to do the

> cleanse once I was assured that I would be ridding myself of the

> gallstones.

>

> In the meantime, I'm concerned that since I've been told to eliminate

> all fats (apparently including " good fats " like olive oil) and since I'm

> still in pain, that I'd better take a wait and see attitude before

> drinking 1/2 C olive oil. That's just me and I'm open to convincing

> evidence that the cleanse for someone with pain is both safe and

> effective.

>

> Anyone on this listserve done a cleanse after having had gallbladder

> attacks and/or after being told they had gallbladder disease? How did

> you fair?

>

> Also, has anyone heard of cholesterol buildup (the cause of gallstones)

> being caused by oral contraceptives? I read this on the web and it

> makes sense to me. The doctor put me on birth control pills to balance

> out my hormones. I was on them for about a year (went off in August).

> And both my blood pressure and cholesterol levels increased after being

> in a very healthy range. I've since read evidence that birth control

> pills especially in older women (I'm 50) can cause these problems.

> Makes sense to me, because I usually eat a very healty diet. I'm not a

> vegetarian, that's for sure. But I don't eat much meat, never eat eggs,

> and not much fat.

>

> Would really like some feedback if anyone can relate to any of this.

>

>

>

> > Dale wrote:

> >

> > Obtaining that kind of information is worst than pulling teeth. I've

> > taken stones in for diagnostic pathology but have only received an

> > answer that it was fecal matter when I know it wasn't " just " fecal

> > matter. It isn't green.

> >

> > There has, in the past on this group, been one that did get done

> > with a report that it was just a waxy substance. That was probably the

> > closest thing to being told it was cholesterol that I've read here,

> > since that's just what cholesterol is, a waxy like substance. There is

> > one person that writes here who's relative is a retired pathologist

> > that has seen my own stones photo and noted that they were in fact

> > just common gallstones.

> >

> > Getting an honest report that what you've passed were in fact

> > gallstones is next to impossible from the medical community. The

> > reason? It may cause some fear that they'll lose prospects.

> >

> > Dale

> > Da_@...

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > From: " jonathan hull " <hulltroy@...>

> > <gallstonesegroups>

> > Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 6:25 AM

> > Subject: Re: stones blocking pancreas?

> >

> > > Has anybody recieved positive laboratory

> > > identification of their cholesterol stones?

> > >

> > > Does anybody know of any sites on the web other than

> > > our egroup sites that have pictures of cholesterol

> > > gallstones?

> > >

> > > Thanks...

> > >

> > > Troy

> > >

> > > __________________________________________________

> > >

[Guest guest]

I agree with what you say . I don't know what the total solution is.

I think each person is different in their problems with their gallbladders

and everyone has to handle it differently. I have 3 stones and have done 15

flushes. They are still there! I certainly believe they can help. I just

yesterday went to a gastro to talk about all this and he said he would not

recommend surgery on someone unless they have had at least 2 occasions of

biliary colic. Which I have not. So I will be continuing to pay attention to

my diet and hope the bloody things don't grow. He cautioned against purging

saying it wasn't scientific enough and against herbs saying there could be

danger in the fact that we really don't know if their are other ingredients

in them, pesticides and such.

I believe Dr. Cabot's ideas to be very good. That diet is the key.

Cut out the bad, fill up on the good and maybe the stones will dissolve

away.

take care. laura

----- Original Message -----

From: " G " <kgwmaya@...>

<gallstonesegroups>

Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 1:41 PM

Subject: Re: Gallstones: Causes/ cures??

> Hi ,

>

> I'm in the same boat as you. I have gallstone pain and I am reading all I

can

> on non-surgical methods of dealing with it.

> So far I have changed my diet to the Dr. Mirkin diet

> see: http://www.drmirkin.com and it has worked great..

> I know it seems harsh not to eat prime rib, ice cream and pizza but after

> about a month you won't crave these foods anymore.

> Another important lifestyle change is exercise. This really helps

> your bile acids keep in balance.

> I haven't tried them yet but I'm interested in Chinese herbs and

acapuncture

> and may also consider some cleansing.

> I think surgical removal is extreme and doesn't deal with the underlying

> cause of the imbalance causing stones. Here is a pretty well researched

> paper on ther subject. Good Luck!

>

>

> http://www.nat-med.com/archives/gallstones.htm

>

> Bramer wrote:

>

> > Thank you, Dale for responding to 's e-mail question. I'd asked

> > the same question when I joined the listserve a few days ago and got no

> > responses.

> >

> > I think if we are actually passing gallstones that the medical community

> > (or at least a research scientist somewhere) would be more than happy to

> > confirm that fact. I find it odd that the findings are inconclusive at

> > best. Surely they have some actual gallstones taken from people who've

> > had their gallbladders out to compare these green things to. It's not

> > rocket science.

> >

> > I'm of a cautious nature and would definitely be willing to do the

> > cleanse once I was assured that I would be ridding myself of the

> > gallstones.

> >

> > In the meantime, I'm concerned that since I've been told to eliminate

> > all fats (apparently including " good fats " like olive oil) and since I'm

> > still in pain, that I'd better take a wait and see attitude before

> > drinking 1/2 C olive oil. That's just me and I'm open to convincing

> > evidence that the cleanse for someone with pain is both safe and

> > effective.

> >

> > Anyone on this listserve done a cleanse after having had gallbladder

> > attacks and/or after being told they had gallbladder disease? How did

> > you fair?

> >

> > Also, has anyone heard of cholesterol buildup (the cause of gallstones)

> > being caused by oral contraceptives? I read this on the web and it

> > makes sense to me. The doctor put me on birth control pills to balance

> > out my hormones. I was on them for about a year (went off in August).

> > And both my blood pressure and cholesterol levels increased after being

> > in a very healthy range. I've since read evidence that birth control

> > pills especially in older women (I'm 50) can cause these problems.

> > Makes sense to me, because I usually eat a very healty diet. I'm not a

> > vegetarian, that's for sure. But I don't eat much meat, never eat eggs,

> > and not much fat.

> >

> > Would really like some feedback if anyone can relate to any of this.

> >

> >

> >

> > > Dale wrote:

> > >

> > > Obtaining that kind of information is worst than pulling teeth. I've

> > > taken stones in for diagnostic pathology but have only received an

> > > answer that it was fecal matter when I know it wasn't " just " fecal

> > > matter. It isn't green.

> > >

> > > There has, in the past on this group, been one that did get done

> > > with a report that it was just a waxy substance. That was probably the

> > > closest thing to being told it was cholesterol that I've read here,

> > > since that's just what cholesterol is, a waxy like substance. There is

> > > one person that writes here who's relative is a retired pathologist

> > > that has seen my own stones photo and noted that they were in fact

> > > just common gallstones.

> > >

> > > Getting an honest report that what you've passed were in fact

> > > gallstones is next to impossible from the medical community. The

> > > reason? It may cause some fear that they'll lose prospects.

> > >

> > > Dale

> > > Da_@...

> > > ----- Original Message -----

> > > From: " jonathan hull " <hulltroy@...>

> > > <gallstonesegroups>

> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 6:25 AM

> > > Subject: Re: stones blocking pancreas?

> > >

> > > > Has anybody recieved positive laboratory

> > > > identification of their cholesterol stones?

> > > >

> > > > Does anybody know of any sites on the web other than

> > > > our egroup sites that have pictures of cholesterol

> > > > gallstones?

> > > >

> > > > Thanks...

> > > >

> > > > Troy

> > > >

> > > > __________________________________________________

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Thanks, !

I'll read the paper.

Just wanted to say that I don't eat ice cream, prime rib, or pizza

(haven't had cheese for years now.) I did have some low-fat ice cream

pops over the summer (unusual for me) that were not fat free (I usually

stick to fat free frozen yogurt). And I did have prime rib at the

beginning of Oct. when I went to a conference out of state and that's

what they served (loved it and ate all of it). But that's just so rare

(pardon the pun). Since I don't eat cheese I never eat pizza, unless

it's cheeseless. So I don't miss any of the foods you mentioned. My

downfall is beef ribs. I eat them at least once a month (maybe 2 -3

ribs) and love them. I have some in my freezer and feel deprived, like

I used up my quota of beef ribs. And what brought on the attack was

some real heavy duty sausage that I saw in the hot deli section of the

local supermarket. I ate 3 1/2 oz of them and was doubled over by

morning. Again, sausage (especially " real " sausage) just isn't

something I eat normally. Maybe I have a hot dog once a year.

I'm upset that I have to watch all fats, including oils (which I was

trying to increase when all this happened. I was trying a cholesterol

reducing food plan which encouraged " good fats " like olive and canola

oil.

Anyway, I consider myself a meat eater because I can't usually go more

than 1 day without any animal protein. I get too hungry. That means I

usually average about 4 oz. of chicken, fish, turkey or occasionally

beef or pork a day. So far, since I've been sick I've had salmon, which

seems to be okay. But no chicken, or beef. I'm not feeling hungry

since I'm feeling sore inside. But I feel sad and angry, 'cause I like

what I eat and how I eat and don't want to become a vegetarian.

This, I'm sure is just a grief process, and I will eventually get into

acceptance of my condition (i.e. do I really want a beef rib, or do I

want to be free of pain and have lower cholesterol?). Now it's a

toss-up.

:>(

G wrote:

>

> Hi ,

>

> I'm in the same boat as you. I have gallstone pain and I am reading all I can

> on non-surgical methods of dealing with it.

> So far I have changed my diet to the Dr. Mirkin diet

> see: http://www.drmirkin.com and it has worked great..

> I know it seems harsh not to eat prime rib, ice cream and pizza but after

> about a month you won't crave these foods anymore.

> Another important lifestyle change is exercise. This really helps

> your bile acids keep in balance.

> I haven't tried them yet but I'm interested in Chinese herbs and acapuncture

> and may also consider some cleansing.

> I think surgical removal is extreme and doesn't deal with the underlying

> cause of the imbalance causing stones. Here is a pretty well researched

> paper on ther subject. Good Luck!

>

> http://www.nat-med.com/archives/gallstones.htm

>

> Bramer wrote:

>

> > Thank you, Dale for responding to 's e-mail question. I'd asked

> > the same question when I joined the listserve a few days ago and got no

> > responses.

> >

> > I think if we are actually passing gallstones that the medical community

> > (or at least a research scientist somewhere) would be more than happy to

> > confirm that fact. I find it odd that the findings are inconclusive at

> > best. Surely they have some actual gallstones taken from people who've

> > had their gallbladders out to compare these green things to. It's not

> > rocket science.

> >

> > I'm of a cautious nature and would definitely be willing to do the

> > cleanse once I was assured that I would be ridding myself of the

> > gallstones.

> >

> > In the meantime, I'm concerned that since I've been told to eliminate

> > all fats (apparently including " good fats " like olive oil) and since I'm

> > still in pain, that I'd better take a wait and see attitude before

> > drinking 1/2 C olive oil. That's just me and I'm open to convincing

> > evidence that the cleanse for someone with pain is both safe and

> > effective.

> >

> > Anyone on this listserve done a cleanse after having had gallbladder

> > attacks and/or after being told they had gallbladder disease? How did

> > you fair?

> >

> > Also, has anyone heard of cholesterol buildup (the cause of gallstones)

> > being caused by oral contraceptives? I read this on the web and it

> > makes sense to me. The doctor put me on birth control pills to balance

> > out my hormones. I was on them for about a year (went off in August).

> > And both my blood pressure and cholesterol levels increased after being

> > in a very healthy range. I've since read evidence that birth control

> > pills especially in older women (I'm 50) can cause these problems.

> > Makes sense to me, because I usually eat a very healty diet. I'm not a

> > vegetarian, that's for sure. But I don't eat much meat, never eat eggs,

> > and not much fat.

> >

> > Would really like some feedback if anyone can relate to any of this.

> >

> >

> >

> > > Dale wrote:

> > >

> > > Obtaining that kind of information is worst than pulling teeth. I've

> > > taken stones in for diagnostic pathology but have only received an

> > > answer that it was fecal matter when I know it wasn't " just " fecal

> > > matter. It isn't green.

> > >

> > > There has, in the past on this group, been one that did get done

> > > with a report that it was just a waxy substance. That was probably the

> > > closest thing to being told it was cholesterol that I've read here,

> > > since that's just what cholesterol is, a waxy like substance. There is

> > > one person that writes here who's relative is a retired pathologist

> > > that has seen my own stones photo and noted that they were in fact

> > > just common gallstones.

> > >

> > > Getting an honest report that what you've passed were in fact

> > > gallstones is next to impossible from the medical community. The

> > > reason? It may cause some fear that they'll lose prospects.

> > >

> > > Dale

> > > Da_@...

> > > ----- Original Message -----

> > > From: " jonathan hull " <hulltroy@...>

> > > <gallstonesegroups>

> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 6:25 AM

> > > Subject: Re: stones blocking pancreas?

> > >

> > > > Has anybody recieved positive laboratory

> > > > identification of their cholesterol stones?

> > > >

> > > > Does anybody know of any sites on the web other than

> > > > our egroup sites that have pictures of cholesterol

> > > > gallstones?

> > > >

> > > > Thanks...

> > > >

> > > > Troy

> > > >

> > > > __________________________________________________

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Salmon ,tuna and smoked black cod are the meats that I eat but I don't eat them

everyday

Soy is my other protein and it is especially good for your liver. Soy products

have really advanced over the years and some are quite good tasting and filling

like soy milkshakes.

Treat anything with white flour in it like pure sugar and try to avoid,

I know how hard it is to avoid problem foods at restaurants

but it can be done.

Eat lots of fruit but avoid juice because the fibre in thje whole fruit is

good for your liver.

Whole apples and pears have pectin which is very good.

Look up recipes on http://www.drmirkin.com . Some are extremely filling and

delicious

It takes tremendous willpower to go against the flow of problem foods in our

society

but a combination of proper diet and excercise will pay off.

I haven't had a gall bladder attack since I changed

Cheers,

Ken

[Guest guest]

Hi, my name is Joan and I am new to this list. I went to my D.O.

yesterday & she recommended a GB cleanse. She gave instructions per

Prescription for Nutritional Healing which also included 3T of Olive

Oil mixed with Lemon juice upon rising and when retiring. So, a DR

actually did tell me to avoid fats/sugars, but TO do this cleanse. I

am looking at this information on the advice of an email acquaintance

who did this flush and got rid of over 2,000 stones.

I am open to all information.

I am in pain and consistently getting worse.

Joan S.

> >

> > Obtaining that kind of information is worst than pulling teeth.

I've

> > taken stones in for diagnostic pathology but have only received an

> > answer that it was fecal matter when I know it wasn't " just " fecal

> > matter. It isn't green.

> >

> > There has, in the past on this group, been one that did get done

> > with a report that it was just a waxy substance. That was

probably the

> > closest thing to being told it was cholesterol that I've read

here,

> > since that's just what cholesterol is, a waxy like substance.

There is

> > one person that writes here who's relative is a retired

pathologist

> > that has seen my own stones photo and noted that they were in fact

> > just common gallstones.

> >

> > Getting an honest report that what you've passed were in fact

> > gallstones is next to impossible from the medical community. The

> > reason? It may cause some fear that they'll lose prospects.

> >

> > Dale

> > Da_@m...

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > From: " jonathan hull " <hulltroy@y...>

> > <gallstonesegroups>

> > Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 6:25 AM

> > Subject: Re: stones blocking pancreas?

> >

> > > Has anybody recieved positive laboratory

> > > identification of their cholesterol stones?

> > >

> > > Does anybody know of any sites on the web other than

> > > our egroup sites that have pictures of cholesterol

> > > gallstones?

> > >

> > > Thanks...

> > >

> > > Troy

> > >

> > > __________________________________________________

> > >

[Guest guest]

;;

I would like to point out to you that in the avoiding of fats you should NOT avoid EFAs. Essential Fatty Acids are needed by the liver for the purpose of cellular strength and for the liver's capacity to remove LDL cholesterol, and make the good HDL cholesterol. It's a bit to get into here, but if you were to get hold of the book "The Liver Cleansing Diet" by Dr. Cabot, you'll learn more than enough about what to eat and what to avoid for good liver and gallbladder health.

Regarding stones, I've put a picture up on the groups Files lists so that all can see the sizes that some stones get to be but can still make their way out. Ken's relative noted that this was just typical of the stones that come from the gallbladder. There are other websites that have pictures of stone that have been cut out of people's gallbladder or liver that look just like my own posted picture.

So, from my standpoint the flush works. I know for myself that it works because of my own experience with going from a doctor wanting to remove my gallbladder to him saying "you can't argue with success" after an ultrasound showed me to be free of all stones, at least in October of 1999.

DaleDa_@...

----- Original Message -----

From: " Bramer" <kjbramer@...>

<gallstonesegroups>

Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 10:00 AM

Subject: Gallstones: Causes/ cures??

> Thank you, Dale for responding to 's e-mail question. I'd asked> the same question when I joined the listserve a few days ago and got no> responses.> > I think if we are actually passing gallstones that the medical community> (or at least a research scientist somewhere) would be more than happy to> confirm that fact. I find it odd that the findings are inconclusive at> best. Surely they have some actual gallstones taken from people who've> had their gallbladders out to compare these green things to. It's not> rocket science.> > I'm of a cautious nature and would definitely be willing to do the> cleanse once I was assured that I would be ridding myself of the> gallstones.> > In the meantime, I'm concerned that since I've been told to eliminate> all fats (apparently including "good fats" like olive oil) and since I'm> still in pain, that I'd better take a wait and see attitude before> drinking 1/2 C olive oil. That's just me and I'm open to convincing> evidence that the cleanse for someone with pain is both safe and> effective.> > Anyone on this listserve done a cleanse after having had gallbladder> attacks and/or after being told they had gallbladder disease? How did> you fair?> > Also, has anyone heard of cholesterol buildup (the cause of gallstones)> being caused by oral contraceptives? I read this on the web and it> makes sense to me. The doctor put me on birth control pills to balance> out my hormones. I was on them for about a year (went off in August). > And both my blood pressure and cholesterol levels increased after being> in a very healthy range. I've since read evidence that birth control> pills especially in older women (I'm 50) can cause these problems. > Makes sense to me, because I usually eat a very healty diet. I'm not a> vegetarian, that's for sure. But I don't eat much meat, never eat eggs,> and not much fat.> > Would really like some feedback if anyone can relate to any of this.> > > > > Dale wrote:> > > > Obtaining that kind of information is worst than pulling teeth. I've> > taken stones in for diagnostic pathology but have only received an> > answer that it was fecal matter when I know it wasn't "just" fecal> > matter. It isn't green.> > > > There has, in the past on this group, been one that did get done> > with a report that it was just a waxy substance. That was probably the> > closest thing to being told it was cholesterol that I've read here,> > since that's just what cholesterol is, a waxy like substance. There is> > one person that writes here who's relative is a retired pathologist> > that has seen my own stones photo and noted that they were in fact> > just common gallstones.> > > > Getting an honest report that what you've passed were in fact> > gallstones is next to impossible from the medical community. The> > reason? It may cause some fear that they'll lose prospects.> > > > Dale> > Da_@...> > ----- Original Message -----> > From: "jonathan hull" <hulltroy@...>> > <gallstonesegroups>> > Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 6:25 AM> > Subject: Re: stones blocking pancreas?> > > > > Has anybody recieved positive laboratory> > > identification of their cholesterol stones?> > >> > > Does anybody know of any sites on the web other than> > > our egroup sites that have pictures of cholesterol> > > gallstones?> > >> > > Thanks...> > >> > > Troy> > >> > > __________________________________________________> > >

[Guest guest]

;

Exercise is one important ingredient that is often missed in the discussions

of this group. I'm glad you mentioned that because it is VERY important to

recovery. I certainly wish you the best in your proceeding with learning

more about the liver and the causes of gallstones. The life change does put

a crimp in things but like you noted you don't miss it after awhile.

Dale

Da_@...

----- Original Message -----

From: " G " <kgwmaya@...>

<gallstonesegroups>

Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 10:41 AM

Subject: Re: Gallstones: Causes/ cures??

> Hi ,

>

> I'm in the same boat as you. I have gallstone pain and I am reading all I

can

> on non-surgical methods of dealing with it.

> So far I have changed my diet to the Dr. Mirkin diet

> see: http://www.drmirkin.com and it has worked great..

> I know it seems harsh not to eat prime rib, ice cream and pizza but after

> about a month you won't crave these foods anymore.

> Another important lifestyle change is exercise. This really helps

> your bile acids keep in balance.

> I haven't tried them yet but I'm interested in Chinese herbs and

acapuncture

> and may also consider some cleansing.

> I think surgical removal is extreme and doesn't deal with the underlying

> cause of the imbalance causing stones. Here is a pretty well researched

> paper on ther subject. Good Luck!

>

>

> http://www.nat-med.com/archives/gallstones.htm

>

> Bramer wrote:

>

> > Thank you, Dale for responding to 's e-mail question. I'd asked

> > the same question when I joined the listserve a few days ago and got no

> > responses.

> >

> > I think if we are actually passing gallstones that the medical community

> > (or at least a research scientist somewhere) would be more than happy to

> > confirm that fact. I find it odd that the findings are inconclusive at

> > best. Surely they have some actual gallstones taken from people who've

> > had their gallbladders out to compare these green things to. It's not

> > rocket science.

> >

> > I'm of a cautious nature and would definitely be willing to do the

> > cleanse once I was assured that I would be ridding myself of the

> > gallstones.

> >

> > In the meantime, I'm concerned that since I've been told to eliminate

> > all fats (apparently including " good fats " like olive oil) and since I'm

> > still in pain, that I'd better take a wait and see attitude before

> > drinking 1/2 C olive oil. That's just me and I'm open to convincing

> > evidence that the cleanse for someone with pain is both safe and

> > effective.

> >

> > Anyone on this listserve done a cleanse after having had gallbladder

> > attacks and/or after being told they had gallbladder disease? How did

> > you fair?

> >

> > Also, has anyone heard of cholesterol buildup (the cause of gallstones)

> > being caused by oral contraceptives? I read this on the web and it

> > makes sense to me. The doctor put me on birth control pills to balance

> > out my hormones. I was on them for about a year (went off in August).

> > And both my blood pressure and cholesterol levels increased after being

> > in a very healthy range. I've since read evidence that birth control

> > pills especially in older women (I'm 50) can cause these problems.

> > Makes sense to me, because I usually eat a very healty diet. I'm not a

> > vegetarian, that's for sure. But I don't eat much meat, never eat eggs,

> > and not much fat.

> >

> > Would really like some feedback if anyone can relate to any of this.

> >

> >

> >

> > > Dale wrote:

> > >

> > > Obtaining that kind of information is worst than pulling teeth. I've

> > > taken stones in for diagnostic pathology but have only received an

> > > answer that it was fecal matter when I know it wasn't " just " fecal

> > > matter. It isn't green.

> > >

> > > There has, in the past on this group, been one that did get done

> > > with a report that it was just a waxy substance. That was probably the

> > > closest thing to being told it was cholesterol that I've read here,

> > > since that's just what cholesterol is, a waxy like substance. There is

> > > one person that writes here who's relative is a retired pathologist

> > > that has seen my own stones photo and noted that they were in fact

> > > just common gallstones.

> > >

> > > Getting an honest report that what you've passed were in fact

> > > gallstones is next to impossible from the medical community. The

> > > reason? It may cause some fear that they'll lose prospects.

> > >

> > > Dale

> > > Da_@...

> > > ----- Original Message -----

> > > From: " jonathan hull " <hulltroy@...>

> > > <gallstonesegroups>

> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 6:25 AM

> > > Subject: Re: stones blocking pancreas?

> > >

> > > > Has anybody recieved positive laboratory

> > > > identification of their cholesterol stones?

> > > >

> > > > Does anybody know of any sites on the web other than

> > > > our egroup sites that have pictures of cholesterol

> > > > gallstones?

> > > >

> > > > Thanks...

> > > >

> > > > Troy

> > > >

> > > > __________________________________________________

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Dale. Appreciate the reference, however could you give a few

examples of " EFA's " ? I'm still eating flaxseed meal and salmon. They

don't seem to increase my pain.

Anyone taking liver cleansing herbs? I'm doing that. I take about 2

capsules daily.

> Dale wrote:

>

> ;;

>

> I would like to point out to you that in the avoiding of fats you

> should NOT avoid EFAs. Essential Fatty Acids are needed by the liver

> for the purpose of cellular strength and for the liver's capacity to

> remove LDL cholesterol, and make the good HDL cholesterol. It's a bit

> to get into here, but if you were to get hold of the book " The Liver

> Cleansing Diet " by Dr. Cabot, you'll learn more than enough

> about what to eat and what to avoid for good liver and gallbladder

> health.

>

> Regarding stones, I've put a picture up on the groups Files lists so

> that all can see the sizes that some stones get to be but can still

> make their way out. Ken's relative noted that this was just typical of

> the stones that come from the gallbladder. There are other websites

> that have pictures of stone that have been cut out of people's

> gallbladder or liver that look just like my own posted picture.

>

> So, from my standpoint the flush works. I know for myself that it

> works because of my own experience with going from a doctor wanting to

> remove my gallbladder to him saying " you can't argue with success "

> after an ultrasound showed me to be free of all stones, at least in

> October of 1999.

>

> Dale

> Da_@...

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: " Bramer " <kjbramer@...>

> <gallstonesegroups>

> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 10:00 AM

> Subject: Gallstones: Causes/ cures??

>

> > Thank you, Dale for responding to 's e-mail question. I'd

> asked

> > the same question when I joined the listserve a few days ago and got

> no

> > responses.

> >

> > I think if we are actually passing gallstones that the medical

> community

> > (or at least a research scientist somewhere) would be more than

> happy to

> > confirm that fact. I find it odd that the findings are inconclusive

> at

> > best. Surely they have some actual gallstones taken from people

> who've

> > had their gallbladders out to compare these green things to. It's

> not

> > rocket science.

> >

> > I'm of a cautious nature and would definitely be willing to do the

> > cleanse once I was assured that I would be ridding myself of the

> > gallstones.

> >

> > In the meantime, I'm concerned that since I've been told to

> eliminate

> > all fats (apparently including " good fats " like olive oil) and since

> I'm

> > still in pain, that I'd better take a wait and see attitude before

> > drinking 1/2 C olive oil. That's just me and I'm open to convincing

> > evidence that the cleanse for someone with pain is both safe and

> > effective.

> >

> > Anyone on this listserve done a cleanse after having had gallbladder

> > attacks and/or after being told they had gallbladder disease? How

> did

> > you fair?

> >

> > Also, has anyone heard of cholesterol buildup (the cause of

> gallstones)

> > being caused by oral contraceptives? I read this on the web and it

> > makes sense to me. The doctor put me on birth control pills to

> balance

> > out my hormones. I was on them for about a year (went off in

> August).

> > And both my blood pressure and cholesterol levels increased after

> being

> > in a very healthy range. I've since read evidence that birth

> control

> > pills especially in older women (I'm 50) can cause these problems.

> > Makes sense to me, because I usually eat a very healty diet. I'm

> not a

> > vegetarian, that's for sure. But I don't eat much meat, never eat

> eggs,

> > and not much fat.

> >

> > Would really like some feedback if anyone can relate to any of this.

> >

> >

> >

> > > Dale wrote:

> > >

> > > Obtaining that kind of information is worst than pulling teeth.

> I've

> > > taken stones in for diagnostic pathology but have only received an

> > > answer that it was fecal matter when I know it wasn't " just " fecal

> > > matter. It isn't green.

> > >

> > > There has, in the past on this group, been one that did get done

> > > with a report that it was just a waxy substance. That was probably

> the

> > > closest thing to being told it was cholesterol that I've read

> here,

> > > since that's just what cholesterol is, a waxy like substance.

> There is

> > > one person that writes here who's relative is a retired

> pathologist

> > > that has seen my own stones photo and noted that they were in fact

> > > just common gallstones.

> > >

> > > Getting an honest report that what you've passed were in fact

> > > gallstones is next to impossible from the medical community. The

> > > reason? It may cause some fear that they'll lose prospects.

> > >

> > > Dale

> > > Da_@...

> > > ----- Original Message -----

> > > From: " jonathan hull " <hulltroy@...>

> > > <gallstonesegroups>

> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 6:25 AM

> > > Subject: Re: stones blocking pancreas?

> > >

> > > > Has anybody recieved positive laboratory

> > > > identification of their cholesterol stones?

> > > >

> > > > Does anybody know of any sites on the web other than

> > > > our egroup sites that have pictures of cholesterol

> > > > gallstones?

> > > >

> > > > Thanks...

> > > >

> > > > Troy

> > > >

> > > > __________________________________________________

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Sure;

Flaxseed Oil

Hemp Oil

Primrose Oil (it should be noted that this and Borage Oil tend to have estrogen that causes some older women to get youthful zits; and if they have breast cancer, should avoid it )

Borage Oil

Black currant seed oil

Fish Oil

Lecithin

Breast Milk

Sesame

Safflower, cotton and sunflower seeds

Corn and corn oils

Raw nuts

Legumes (Beans)

Pumpkin Seeds (this is also good for parasite cleansing)

Leafy Greens

Oysters

Deep sea fish (mackerel, tuna, herring, flounder, sardines, salmon)

Just to name a few

One thing to note is that some oils that stimulate the liver my cause some discomfort but not pain in the area of the liver. I tend to notice when it with Hemp Oil after about 15 minutes for around an hour or more. But to me I feel it's doing my body good so I just work at finding my comfort zone regarding just how much to take at a time.

The thing that gets to me is that when I write about this stuff my mouth starts to water and I just have to go get a sip of some as soon as I click Send.

DaleDa_@...

> Thanks, Dale. Appreciate the reference, however could you give a few> examples of "EFA's"? I'm still eating flaxseed meal and salmon. They> don't seem to increase my pain. > > Anyone taking liver cleansing herbs? I'm doing that. I take about 2> capsules daily.> >

[Guest guest]

Causes....

Well, I think you all are right about bad diets, excercise and toxins

but there is a couple of more things I believe is producing stones.

Bacteria overgrowth, parasites --> Bodystress --> Bile gets stuck

Mothers milk replacement --> Bodystress --> Bile gets stuck

and what I believe is the most important.

Stress directly after a meal. I believe everyone should lay down

after a meal and let the digestivesystem do its work. If you get up

and go or stress your way to the work, bile will get stuck.

take care

/Jens

--- In gallstonesegroups, " Dale " <Da_@e...>

wrote:

> Sure;

> Flaxseed Oil

> Hemp Oil

> Primrose Oil (it should be noted that this and Borage Oil tend to

have estrogen that causes some older women to get youthful zits; and

if they have breast cancer, should avoid it )

> Borage Oil

> Black currant seed oil

> Fish Oil

> Lecithin

> Breast Milk

> Sesame

> Safflower, cotton and sunflower seeds

> Corn and corn oils

> Raw nuts

> Legumes (Beans)

> Pumpkin Seeds (this is also good for parasite cleansing)

> Leafy Greens

> Oysters

> Deep sea fish (mackerel, tuna, herring, flounder, sardines, salmon)

>

> Just to name a few

>

> One thing to note is that some oils that stimulate the liver my

cause some discomfort but not pain in the area of the liver. I tend

to notice when it with Hemp Oil after about 15 minutes for around an

hour or more. But to me I feel it's doing my body good so I just work

at finding my comfort zone regarding just how much to take at a time.

>

> The thing that gets to me is that when I write about this stuff my

mouth starts to water and I just have to go get a sip of some as soon

as I click Send.

>

> Dale

> Da_@m...

>

>

>

>

> > Thanks, Dale. Appreciate the reference, however could you give a

few

> > examples of " EFA's " ? I'm still eating flaxseed meal and salmon.

They

> > don't seem to increase my pain.

> >

> > Anyone taking liver cleansing herbs? I'm doing that. I take

about 2

> > capsules daily.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Dale,

This list is terrific! I printed it out and it will go on my frig.

along with my " cholesterol lowering " foods. Love it! Now my next

question is: I was at Trader Joes today and they had Primrose Oil and

Borage Oil in capsules (also flaxseed oil). Do you recommend finding

these in fresh (refrigerated) form or are the capsules good enough?

> Dale wrote:

>

> Sure;

> Flaxseed Oil

> Hemp Oil

> Primrose Oil (it should be noted that this and Borage Oil tend to have

> estrogen that causes some older women to get youthful zits; and if

> they have breast cancer, should avoid it )

> Borage Oil

> Black currant seed oil

> Fish Oil

> Lecithin

> Breast Milk

> Sesame

> Safflower, cotton and sunflower seeds

> Corn and corn oils

> Raw nuts

> Legumes (Beans)

> Pumpkin Seeds (this is also good for parasite cleansing)

> Leafy Greens

> Oysters

> Deep sea fish (mackerel, tuna, herring, flounder, sardines, salmon)

>

> Just to name a few

>

> One thing to note is that some oils that stimulate the liver my cause

> some discomfort but not pain in the area of the liver. I tend to

> notice when it with Hemp Oil after about 15 minutes for around an hour

> or more. But to me I feel it's doing my body good so I just work at

> finding my comfort zone regarding just how much to take at a time.

>

> The thing that gets to me is that when I write about this stuff my

> mouth starts to water and I just have to go get a sip of some as soon

> as I click Send.

>

> Dale

> Da_@...

>

>

> > Thanks, Dale. Appreciate the reference, however could you give a

> few

> > examples of " EFA's " ? I'm still eating flaxseed meal and salmon.

> They

> > don't seem to increase my pain.

> >

> > Anyone taking liver cleansing herbs? I'm doing that. I take about

> 2

> > capsules daily.

> >

> >

>

> eGroups Sponsor

> [Wireless web technology from Motorola]

>

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> http:///messages/gallstones-testimonials

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> yourself!

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> Web Sites: http://home.online.no/~dusan/gallstones/

> Have a nice day !

[Guest guest]

Capsules are fine from all that I've come to know of their use. However, I

would consider making sure they aren't stored in direct sunlight. I prefer

to take my oils like flaxseed oil, olive oil and hemp oil directly from a

bottle. I have developed a taste for them that way. I use to take primrose

oil capsules in my truck and pop a few in my mouth to let the capsule

breakdown and I could taste the oil.

Dale

Da_@...

----- Original Message -----

From: " Bramer " <kjbramer@...>

<gallstonesegroups>

Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 12:38 PM

Subject: Re: Gallstones: Causes/ cures??

> Dale,

>

> This list is terrific! I printed it out and it will go on my frig.

> along with my " cholesterol lowering " foods. Love it! Now my next

> question is: I was at Trader Joes today and they had Primrose Oil and

> Borage Oil in capsules (also flaxseed oil). Do you recommend finding

> these in fresh (refrigerated) form or are the capsules good enough?

>

>

>

> > Dale wrote:

> >

> > Sure;

> > Flaxseed Oil

> > Hemp Oil

> > Primrose Oil (it should be noted that this and Borage Oil tend to have

> > estrogen that causes some older women to get youthful zits; and if

> > they have breast cancer, should avoid it )

> > Borage Oil

> > Black currant seed oil

> > Fish Oil

> > Lecithin

> > Breast Milk

> > Sesame

> > Safflower, cotton and sunflower seeds

> > Corn and corn oils

> > Raw nuts

> > Legumes (Beans)

> > Pumpkin Seeds (this is also good for parasite cleansing)

> > Leafy Greens

> > Oysters

> > Deep sea fish (mackerel, tuna, herring, flounder, sardines, salmon)

> >

> > Just to name a few

> >

> > One thing to note is that some oils that stimulate the liver may cause

> > some discomfort but not pain in the area of the liver. I tend to

> > notice when it with Hemp Oil after about 15 minutes for around an hour

> > or more. But to me I feel it's doing my body good so I just work at

> > finding my comfort zone regarding just how much to take at a time.

> >

> > The thing that gets to me is that when I write about this stuff my

> > mouth starts to water and I just have to go get a sip of some as soon

> > as I click Send.

> >

> > Dale

> > Da_@...

> >

> >

> > > Thanks, Dale. Appreciate the reference, however could you give a

> > few

> > > examples of " EFA's " ? I'm still eating flaxseed meal and salmon.

> > They

> > > don't seem to increase my pain.

> > >

> > > Anyone taking liver cleansing herbs? I'm doing that. I take about

> > 2

> > > capsules daily.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > eGroups Sponsor

> > [Wireless web technology from Motorola]

> >

> > Collected testimonials:

> > http:///messages/gallstones-testimonials

> > You are receiving this email because you elected to subscribe to the

> > gallstonesegroups. To unsubscribe:

> > Mailto:gallstones-unsubscribeegroups

> > To subscribe again: Mailto:gallstones-subscribeegroups

> > To change status to digest: Mailto:gallstones-digestegroups

> > To change status to normal: Mailto;gallstones-normalegroups

> > By joining the list you agree to hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR

> > yourself!

> > List Archives: http:///messages/gallstones

> > Web Sites: http://home.online.no/~dusan/gallstones/

> > Have a nice day !

>

> Collected testimonials:

> http:///messages/gallstones-testimonials

> You are receiving this email because you elected to subscribe to the

gallstonesegroups. To unsubscribe:

Mailto:gallstones-unsubscribeegroups

> To subscribe again: Mailto:gallstones-subscribeegroups

> To change status to digest: Mailto:gallstones-digestegroups

> To change status to normal: Mailto;gallstones-normalegroups

> By joining the list you agree to hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR

yourself!

> List Archives: http:///messages/gallstones

> Web Sites: http://home.online.no/~dusan/gallstones/

> Have a nice day !

>