Re: Re: CMEs, learning and Generic Medicine prices in India - who cares?

December 13, 2007

The question is do we really need all the costly fanfare that surrounds the CMEs?

There are much better ways to learn than participating in these wasteful melas.

The best way to really learn would be sharing individual experiences and matching them with available scientific data drawn from collective experimentation and experience. This could be done on a daily basis than in one single indigestible CME session.

rakesh

On 12/14/07, anil varshney <anilvarshney@...> wrote:

Dear All

The reality is far from the dream

Doctores are KANJOOS they want commissions and free servcies

so rarely some onw will like to pay for CMEs and hence CMEs aresposnsored by comapnaies

anil varshney

anita kotwani <anitakotwani@...> wrote:

Dear all, Please share your dreams or realities like Rakesh has expressed. Private pharmaceutical companies will make generics under their name. The group is not very active...may be I am not moderating the way they are used to.

Best, Anita Kotwani

netrum From:

rakesh7biswas@...Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 13:51:35 +0800Subject: Re: Re: Generic Medicine prices in India - who cares?

If all the medicines are available by generic name there is no problem or if doctors prescribe by generic name (practiced in many countries) and pharmacist dispense the generic medicine in India we will have affordable medicines for all!

India is a big manufacturer for all the generic medicines but 65% of population does not have access to essential medicines.

How I wish this dream would come true...

To add to the advantages of generic prescribing from a clinician's point of view, imagine the time saved for a clinician who doesn't have to spend 5-10 minutes with each and every major comany med rep (which s/he actually does out of courtesy not for their silly presents as discussed before on this list). Also as previously discussed and demonstrated by Dr Vijay clinicians need not depend on pharma companies to have their CMEs and conferences which means more time saved.

With all this time saved (once clinicians become free of this present unnecessary grip of the pharma companies) a clinician could focus on more meaningful pursuits like improving patient care, learning etc (which ultimately improves patient care).

Finally the biggest advantage of all as Dr Anita has so very well emphasized would be reduction in medicine prices that would follow as soon as we shift to generics. Only one may have to figure out how to make all these presently private independent manufacturing units to work under one generic umbrella. If we are thinking of shifting all the manufacturing burden on to the government how does one finance those and what effect would that have on the prices? Forgive my ignorance on economic issues that I am attempting to think out on (aloud).

rakesh

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December 15, 2007

Thanks Anil,

ACMHE's (I am not aware of the full form of this abbrev) efforts to promote CME(continuing medical education) is laudable and yet I wonder if it could be further supplemented/improved with experiential learning on the job supported by an interconnected network of users (which includes patients and health professionals)? For example the same health professional experts who are brought to provide CME (either in the form of lectures through power points etc) could be part of the network supporting real life on the job queries in health professionals (or even patients). Active learning could continue on the job instead of being fragmented into separate sessions (which may promote passive learning, memorisation etc which are necessary to an extent but not to the levels which is practiced currently). We could save a lot of money and time in this promotion of on the job active learning as opposed to fragmented passive learning. I agree even present day CMEs do have a lot of sessions/workshops that promote hands on active learning but again they maybe far from real life applicability in terms of immediately perceivable outcomes.

rakesh

On 12/15/07, anil varshney <anilvarshney@...> wrote:

I agree with Rakesh

most CMEs are melas and chance to meet your old freinds

we at ACMHE stared few dedicated CMEs in the past with no fan fare Drs had to pay for teh intellectual inputs and faculty was paid for their efforts

we are working in this area to expand

Receently we have as an alliance ( Alliance for trrining in Health have begged RCH training under NRHM for haryana , This is the first PPP enedevour in training in the Country )

we hope to scale up and move forwards

soon we will be exploring partners in states and districts in other parts of the country

regards

Dr Anil Varshney

IMMUNIZE EVERY CHILD FOR HEALTHY FUTURE, PREVENT AIDS ,-PRACTICE SAFE SEX ,EAT HEALTHY FOODS SLEEP WELL , EXERCISE DAILY , MEDITATE FOR HEALTHY LIVING

Re: Re: Generic Medicine prices in India - who cares?

If all the medicines are available by generic name there is no problem or if doctors prescribe by generic name (practiced in many countries) and pharmacist dispense the generic medicine in India we will have affordable medicines for all!

India is a big manufacturer for all the generic medicines but 65% of population does not have access to essential medicines.

How I wish this dream would come true...

To add to the advantages of generic prescribing from a clinician's point of view, imagine the time saved for a clinician who doesn't have to spend 5-10 minutes with each and every major comany med rep (which s/he actually does out of courtesy not for their silly presents as discussed before on this list). Also as previously discussed and demonstrated by Dr Vijay clinicians need not depend on pharma companies to have their CMEs and conferences which means more time saved.

With all this time saved (once clinicians become free of this present unnecessary grip of the pharma companies) a clinician could focus on more meaningful pursuits like improving patient care, learning etc (which ultimately improves patient care).

Finally the biggest advantage of all as Dr Anita has so very well emphasized would be reduction in medicine prices that would follow as soon as we shift to generics. Only one may have to figure out how to make all these presently private independent manufacturing units to work under one generic umbrella. If we are thinking of shifting all the manufacturing burden on to the government how does one finance those and what effect would that have on the prices? Forgive my ignorance on economic issues that I am attempting to think out on (aloud).

rakesh

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MEDITATE FOR HEALTHY LIVING

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December 16, 2007

Rakesh

I agree with you network is the answer. However medical proffesion using computer and networking very very low. may be coming generation which has more exposure will network and share and learn better

But active one to one learning will still be required.

we wish to move CMEs from didiact information delvering to participatory and problem solving sessions

ACMHE stands for Academy for Continuing medical and Health Education

rgds

Anil VArshney IMMUNIZE EVERY CHILD FOR HEALTHY FUTURE, PREVENT AIDS ,-PRACTICE SAFE SEX ,EAT HEALTHY FOODS SLEEP WELL , EXERCISE DAILY , MEDITATE FOR HEALTHY LIVING

Re: Re: Generic Medicine prices in India - who cares?

If all the medicines are available by generic name there is no problem or if doctors prescribe by generic name (practiced in many countries) and pharmacist dispense the generic medicine in India we will have affordable medicines for all! India is a big manufacturer for all the generic medicines but 65% of population does not have access to essential medicines.

How I wish this dream would come true...

To add to the advantages of generic prescribing from a clinician's point of view, imagine the time saved for a clinician who doesn't have to spend 5-10 minutes with each and every major comany med rep (which s/he actually does out of courtesy not for their silly presents as discussed before on this list). Also as previously discussed and demonstrated by Dr Vijay clinicians need not depend on pharma companies to have their CMEs and conferences which means more time saved.

With all this time saved (once clinicians become free of this present unnecessary grip of the pharma companies) a clinician could focus on more meaningful pursuits like improving patient care, learning etc (which ultimately improves patient care).

Finally the biggest advantage of all as Dr Anita has so very well emphasized would be reduction in medicine prices that would follow as soon as we shift to generics. Only one may have to figure out how to make all these presently private independent manufacturing units to work under one generic umbrella. If we are thinking of shifting all the manufacturing burden on to the government how does one finance those and what effect would that have on the prices? Forgive my ignorance on economic issues that I am attempting to think out on (aloud).

rakesh

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December 16, 2007

Thanks Anil,

I had recently compiled a review on the status of continuing health education in India http://www.jcehp.com/vol27/2702.asp for this US journal on invitation and wish I had known of your

organization then so that I could have mentioned it in the article.

I would be interested to discuss off the list more on your plans to move into participatory learning in health care.

Where is your organization based?

rakesh

On 12/17/07, anil varshney <anilvarshney@...> wrote:

Rakesh

I agree with you network is the answer. However medical proffesion using computer and networking very very low. may be coming generation which has more exposure will network and share and learn better

But active one to one learning will still be required.

we wish to move CMEs from didiact information delvering to participatory and problem solving sessions

ACMHE stands for Academy for Continuing medical and Health Education

rgds

Anil VArshney IMMUNIZE EVERY CHILD FOR HEALTHY FUTURE, PREVENT AIDS ,-PRACTICE SAFE SEX ,EAT HEALTHY FOODS SLEEP WELL , EXERCISE DAILY , MEDITATE FOR HEALTHY LIVING

Re: Re: Generic Medicine prices in India - who cares?

If all the medicines are available by generic name there is no problem or if doctors prescribe by generic name (practiced in many countries) and pharmacist dispense the generic medicine in India we will have affordable medicines for all!

India is a big manufacturer for all the generic medicines but 65% of population does not have access to essential medicines.

How I wish this dream would come true...

To add to the advantages of generic prescribing from a clinician's point of view, imagine the time saved for a clinician who doesn't have to spend 5-10 minutes with each and every major comany med rep (which s/he actually does out of courtesy not for their silly presents as discussed before on this list). Also as previously discussed and demonstrated by Dr Vijay clinicians need not depend on pharma companies to have their CMEs and conferences which means more time saved.

With all this time saved (once clinicians become free of this present unnecessary grip of the pharma companies) a clinician could focus on more meaningful pursuits like improving patient care, learning etc (which ultimately improves patient care).

Finally the biggest advantage of all as Dr Anita has so very well emphasized would be reduction in medicine prices that would follow as soon as we shift to generics. Only one may have to figure out how to make all these presently private independent manufacturing units to work under one generic umbrella. If we are thinking of shifting all the manufacturing burden on to the government how does one finance those and what effect would that have on the prices? Forgive my ignorance on economic issues that I am attempting to think out on (aloud).

rakesh

Live the life in style with MSN Lifestyle. Check out! Try it now! IMMUNIZE EVERY CHILD FOR HEALTHY FUTURE,

PREVENT AIDS ,-PRACTICE SAFE SEX ,EAT HEALTHY FOODS SLEEP WELL , EXERCISE DAILY ,

MEDITATE FOR HEALTHY LIVING

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December 18, 2007

Rakesh I am based In Delhi my organizationis HCS , healthcare consultancy servcies, this is a consulatncy organization working with MOHFW, WHO, World Bank and state governments ACMHE is another CME organization not as active as was visualised ATH is Allinace fro training in Helathg ( allinace of HCS ,New Celhi Institute of management and humaclin) based in Delhi ATH is looking after public health training. proposal is to expand ATH and ACMHE . we have designs , there are issues in implementaion whgich arec being soughet dout soon we wish to enlist city / district lvel cooridnators and faculty memberrs a core team to develop course content and training learning need assessments regrds Anil varshney Rakesh Biswas

<rakesh7biswas@...> wrote: Thanks Anil, I had recently compiled a review on the status of continuing health education in India http://www.jcehp.com/vol27/2702.asp for this US journal on invitation and wish I had known of your organization then so that I could have mentioned it in the article. I would be interested to discuss off the list more on your plans to move into participatory learning in health

care. Where is your organization based? rakesh On 12/17/07, anil varshney <anilvarshney > wrote: Rakesh I agree with you network is the answer. However medical proffesion using computer and networking very very low. may be coming generation which has more exposure will network and share and learn better But active one to one learning will still be required. we wish to move CMEs from didiact information delvering to participatory and problem solving sessions ACMHE stands for Academy for Continuing medical and Health Education rgds Anil VArshney IMMUNIZE EVERY CHILD FOR HEALTHY FUTURE, PREVENT AIDS ,-PRACTICE SAFE SEX ,EAT HEALTHY FOODS SLEEP WELL , EXERCISE DAILY , MEDITATE FOR HEALTHY LIVING -----

Original Message ----From: Rakesh Biswas < rakesh7biswasgmail>netrum Sent: Sunday, 16 December, 2007 8:28:18 AMSubject: Re: Re: CMEs, learning and Generic Medicine prices in India - who cares? Thanks Anil, ACMHE's (I am not aware of the full form of this abbrev) efforts to promote CME(continuing medical education) is laudable and yet I wonder if it could be further supplemented/ improved with experiential learning on the job supported by an interconnected network of users (which includes patients and health professionals) ? For example the same health professional experts who are brought to provide CME (either in the form of lectures through power points

etc) could be part of the network supporting real life on the job queries in health professionals (or even patients). Active learning could continue on the job instead of being fragmented into separate sessions (which may promote passive learning, memorisation etc which are necessary to an extent but not to the levels which is practiced currently). We could save a lot of money and time in this promotion of on the job active learning as opposed to fragmented passive learning. I agree even present day CMEs do have a lot of sessions/workshops that promote hands on active learning but again they maybe far from real life applicability in terms of immediately perceivable outcomes. rakesh On 12/15/07, anil varshney < anilvarshney> wrote: I agree with Rakesh most CMEs are melas and chance to meet your old freinds we at ACMHE stared few dedicated CMEs in the past with no fan fare Drs had to pay for teh intellectual inputs and faculty was paid for their efforts we are working in this area to expand Receently we have as an alliance ( Alliance for trrining in Health have begged RCH training under NRHM for haryana , This is the first PPP enedevour in training in the Country ) we hope to scale up and move forwards soon we will be exploring partners in states and districts in other parts of the country regards Dr Anil Varshney <font

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #80c0ff;" face="arial narrow">IMMUNIZE EVERY CHILD FOR HEALTHY FUTURE, PREVENT AIDS ,-PRACTICE SAFE SEX ,EAT HEALTHY FOODS SLEEP WELL , EXERCISE DAILY , MEDITATE FOR HEALTHY LIVING Re: Re: Generic Medicine prices in India - who cares? If all the medicines are available by generic name there is no problem or if doctors prescribe by generic name (practiced in many countries) and pharmacist dispense the generic medicine in India we will have affordable

medicines for all! India is a big manufacturer for all the generic medicines but 65% of population does not have access to essential medicines. How I wish this dream would come true... To add to the advantages of generic prescribing from a clinician's point of view, imagine the time saved for a clinician who doesn't have to spend 5-10 minutes with each and every major comany med rep (which s/he actually does out of courtesy not for their silly presents as discussed before on this list). Also as previously discussed and demonstrated by Dr Vijay clinicians need not depend on pharma companies to have their CMEs and conferences which

means more time saved. With all this time saved (once clinicians become free of this present unnecessary grip of the pharma companies) a clinician could focus on more meaningful pursuits like improving patient care, learning etc (which ultimately improves patient care). Finally the biggest advantage of all as Dr Anita has so very well emphasized would be reduction in medicine prices that would follow as soon as we shift to generics. Only one may have to figure out how to make all these presently private independent manufacturing units to work under one generic umbrella. If we are thinking of shifting all the manufacturing burden on to the government how does one finance those and what effect would that have on the prices? Forgive my ignorance on economic issues that I am attempting to think out on (aloud). rakesh Live the life in style with MSN Lifestyle. Check out! Try it now! IMMUNIZE EVERY CHILD FOR HEALTHY FUTURE, PREVENT AIDS ,-PRACTICE SAFE SEX ,EAT HEALTHY FOODS SLEEP WELL , EXERCISE DAILY , MEDITATE FOR HEALTHY LIVING Forgot the famous last words? Access your

message archive online. Click here. Save all your chat conversations. Find them online. Forgot the famous last words? Access your message archive online. Click here. IMMUNIZE EVERY CHILD FOR HEALTHY FUTURE, PREVENT AIDS ,-PRACTICE SAFE SEX ,EAT HEALTHY FOODS SLEEP WELL , EXERCISE DAILY , MEDITATE FOR HEALTHY LIVING

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