Re: Furious

[Guest guest]

I think we must have pretty strange IEP meetings. About two months

before a scheduled IEP meething (which the teacher schedules about 4

months in advance...... good advance warning!), the teacher will ask if

we'd like to come by informally and talk about what WE think are

important for the upcoming year. This last year, I was there for about

3 1/2 hours on a Friday, keeping her in the classroom until after 6:30

pm (and she was OK with that). She drafts some goals, as well as

collecting preliminary goals from Speach, APE, and OT, then sends this

home prior to the meething (about 3-4 weeks). She then encourages us

to give input (like them, hate them, whatever) before the meeting so

that she can either make changes or note it for the meeting. This may

not be the way IDEA designed it, but in this case, with a great teacher,

it makes the IEP meeting a lot more reasonable, both in time and

emotions. It also gives me time to get feedback from other experienced

parents (like you guys :-), as well as do research about what is age

appropriate, and try to decide where to target before we

actually site down with the whole " team " (which I don't believe is a

" team " once the administrator shows up, but that's just my personal

opinion). Of course, the are just draft goals, and I have " tested " the

teacher by rejecting goals and seriously modifying other goals, and she

did it without complaint (discussion, yes, but she did change them).

Next year, when we transition to a new school, the reality is gonna hit

big time :-)

, mom to (7), (5 DS), and (3)

[Guest guest]

Our special education coordinators (district level) have lap tops. These could

be used to make changes, copied to a disk and then printed out while you wait.

mom to Bridget 9 ds

Re: Furious

While we know the intent is to have blank pages and the team fills it in, I

know few people where that happens.

Our LEA is going to computerized forms and they are going to send home

drafts. Our question to the sped dept flabbergasted them .... " if there needs

to be changes made, will you have a computer on hand to do so at the IEP

meeting? " ;-)

Their suggestion is to write in on the rough draft the changes and that is

still the official signed document you take with you at the end of the

meeting. They will make changes to the computerized form later ... and no

print out for parents of the document that is stored in computer. Which

makes us wonder how to insure no keying errors .... say on the service page

are made?

We are still working on this one!

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

I have had teachers that get together with me and we draft the goals and

objectives. It's a fine way to have a short IEP and as long as everyone is

in agreement with the practice I think it is fine. It's still a draft, open

for revision. We always called these pre-IEP meetings.

I have had drafts sent home and I send my suggestions in based on the draft.

They are incorporated and I arrive at a meeting with the revised IEP ready

and waiting. Sometimes more revision is needed, sometimes not. That's fine

with me too.

I've had meetings with the blank pages, where we are painstakingly going over

goals that I have never seen, where I give out copies of goals I want and we

critique everyone's. Takes time but that can work.

I've been to meetings where my daughter brought her own goals ... we have

actually had a teacher try to reject her personal finance goals she came with

..... I had to be a little assertive on her behalf ... but most of the time

they are very receptive with her telling them what she wants to work on.

Goals and objectives can be modified or added anytime. Services and LRE are

what you have to get correct IMO ... and that should be blank until the

actual meeting. You wouldn't want to have a draft sent home, be confident

everything is the same and sign to only discover something didn't quite match

the draft!

Cheryl

[Guest guest]

Elaine,

That " sign in sheet " states right on it that it is merely a sign in sheet to

determine who was present at the meeting and not an agreement. I'm still

looking for the signature page that had to do with the agreement of the IEP. I

know that if they try to pull that stunt on me, it won't work. They can try,

but I will politely point out to them exactly what it states and that I want the

ORIGINAL signature page of agreement.

Judi - Proud mother to Jordan 7, ds and Savannah 14 weeks, nda

Ambition is a poor excuse for not having enough

sense to be lazy.

Furious

Okay... Once again, I'm having problems with Jordan's school. I found a IEP

violation and I'm so ready to make heads roll. I know, you're supposed to go in

to these things in a calm manner. But how can I possibly do that when the

school is not doing things in and for the best interests of my child? Since she

has been in this school, I have discovered the following (some of which I

already posted on):

1. They took her off the " big bus " and is now back on door-to-door

transportation.

2. They like to point out more negative things than positive things, not

only in her communication book, but in her daily report sheets as well.

3. They are accusing her of doing hitting and kicking the aide.

4. The comment was made to me at the last IEP meeting that we would

re-convene in a month to determine whether or not this placement was still the

best placement for her. I was told this after the meeting was over and people

were filing out of the room.

5. They made changes to the Final IEP AFTER I agreed to what was in it.

Noticeably her PT schedule.

6. It took them three weeks to get the Final IEP to me in which I had to go

to the school after a written request for my copy was ignored.

7. She was literally shoved back across the white line the students stand

behind when they are waiting for parents to pick them up. The teacher who did

this did not talk to Jordan or ask her to get behind the white line. She just

shoved her. She didn't do this to any other student that was over that line,

and I saw three other kids over that line. She also grabbed Jordan by her upper

arm and forced her to run to the front of the line when they saw my car. Jordan

can't run as fast as the teacher was making her. This is also not Jordan's

teacher, but just someone who is assigned to help with after school bussing and

car riders.

I am so floored at what is going on because the school " said " that they

wanted to do anything to make me happy and to get Jordan in her LRE because they

knew that the old district had committed at least 6 violations to her prior IEP.

They also asked me not to take it out on them for what the old district had done

and to give them (the new district) a chance to do the right thing.

Well if the seven things listed above is ANY indication of what the " right "

thing is... then heads are gonna roll. I've got a meeting on Friday and it's

this " meeting " that I was informed of back in January when the comment about

placement was made. I'm tired of " being and playing nice " to these people. I

want accountability and I want my child to be treated right. They are accusing

her of doing things that in her seven and one half year history has NEVER done

to anyone. If she says " hit " it's because she's picked that behavior up from

another child in PRESCHOOL. She says it, but the only individual she's ever hit

is herself. Unless someone is doing that to her in school, then I don't believe

what they say because I know my child and I know her behavior. And their

accusations are pure BS. They won't let me come in to the school unless I make

prior arrangements to observe. Why?! So

I had the chance to talk to another mother and her son and her son said very

positive things about Jordan. When I asked him if he ever saw Jordan not

listening to the Aide or hitting or kicking, his response was that she was a

good student and was very nice and that he did not see her being bad. My gut

feeling is that the aide is making up this stuff about Jordan's behavior and

that they are trying to get her out of there. My little " informant " had nothing

to gain from this so why would he lie about it? I don't think Jordan should be

subjected to a FBA if there's NO bad behaviors going on. The teachers KNOW that

Jordan does not communicate well so she can't come home and tell me what

happened that day. I think they take advantage of this and they know it. I'm

aggravated, insulted, angered and regardless, come the end of that meeting on

Friday, either I'll be withdrawing my child from school, or I'm going to be

getting a law! yer.

Judi - Proud mother to Jordan 7, ds and Savannah 14 weeks, nda

Ambition is a poor excuse for not having enough

sense to be lazy.

[Guest guest]

Ohhhhhh They're already written out and I tell them.... we're not going to use

these PRE filled out sheets. I want blank ones with nothing on them. They try

to tell me that the sheets are just " baseline " sheets or starters, but I remind

them that I am a part of the team and I didn't get to help fill out those

" starter " sheets.

Judi - Proud mother to Jordan 7, ds and Savannah 14 weeks, nda

Ambition is a poor excuse for not having enough

sense to be lazy.

Re: Furious

So, when you get to the IEP.... do they have blank forms or do they have the

goals all written up?

[Guest guest]

That's what I did. I taped the first meeting and because I was getting what I

wanted, didn't bother to tape the rest. I guess I will be bringing the old tape

recorder to the meeting once again.

Judi - Proud mother to Jordan 7, ds and Savannah 14 weeks, nda

Ambition is a poor excuse for not having enough

sense to be lazy.

[Guest guest]

It never hurts to have a copy of IDEA or your state regulations or both with you

either. Dog-ear the pages and highlight important passages. This can let them

know (or make them think) that you know the law.

Elaine

Re: Furious

I think the main thing to try and do is become a " professional parent " and try

your darnest not to become emotional. Wear a dark blue suit (power clothes) and

dress your best.

Bring an agenda (with copies) of what needs to be addressed. Write

suggestions of what you think can be done to meet her needs and the IEP.

Ask to meet on a regular basis until the kinks get worked out (and expect

constant changes - keeping the I in IEP).

You can say " My concern is that her behaviors are not addressed and can not be

until a FBA is completed. (put request in writing and add to IEP) " . Once the

FBA is completed, we need to reconvene and write behavioral goals. Until then,

time out is a negative reinforcer for her and I suggest using this technique.

I went through a whole year of negative papers on . This year, his

teacher sends home either a pink sheet or a blue sheet. The pink sheet says " I

had a great day " and the blue sheet says " I could have had a better day " . Also,

has a daily activity sheet. He will circle what he completed for the

day (OT, ST, PE, etc.). Sometimes the teacher will make little comments

(refused to participate in PE " . There is also room for me to write what he had

for dinner, what he played and what time he went to bed. This helps reinforce

speech - he can tell them about home.

I guess we are lucky. The IEP is numbered and then xeroxed before we leave

the room. I am the emotional parent and Tim is truly the " professional parent "

- even though I dress better than he does (he will show up in a tshirt and

jeans). Tim also is a union rep and is highly involved on a national level for

his union - he's really good at IEPs.

We are having a good year so far. I've backed off alot and wanted the

behaviors to be the biggest goal. He is continuing to learn to read and spell -

and his writing keeps getting better and better. He's happy and I am not as

stressed. He also has friends - he talks about them, writes their names all the

time, etc.

The most help we have had is through a private behavioral psychologist - and

not the school. I do have more trust with his teacher this year and her

demeanor is more low key and not easily anxious.

[Guest guest]

In the UK, traditionally felt to follow the US in terms of technological

advances, many of our tradesmen, such as plumbers, gas fitters etc, carry

portable laptops with portable printers and write up invoices and print them

out for the customer on the spot. Maybe you could suggest to your LEA that

they do this. The idea of a draft IEP is not (IMHO anyway!) such a bad

idea, particularly for those parents who wouldn't know where to even start

in thinking up IEP goals and could help them to focus their attention, plus

it gives everyone, includng parents, an idea of where the meeting is set on

going and gives you a chance to to prepare for that. A laptop computer with

the draft IEP stored on it, or on a disc, would mean changes could be added

in the meeting, printed out in the meeting and signed in the meeting. I do

agree that a piece of paper with notes of changes on it is a little dubious

as a legally enforceable document! I will add that, in East Yorkshire where

I live at least, we write up our goals and targets on a draft form, the form

is sent away and everyone gets a printed copy later.

sue wong

> While we know the intent is to have blank pages and the team fills it in,

I

> know few people where that happens.

>

> Our LEA is going to computerized forms and they are going to send home

> drafts. Our question to the sped dept flabbergasted them .... " if there

needs

> to be changes made, will you have a computer on hand to do so at the IEP

> meeting? " ;-)

> Their suggestion is to write in on the rough draft the changes and that is

> still the official signed document you take with you at the end of the

> meeting. They will make changes to the computerized form later ... and no

> print out for parents of the document that is stored in computer. Which

> makes us wonder how to insure no keying errors .... say on the service

page

> are made?

> We are still working on this one!

> Cheryl in VA

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/20/2003 4:32:39 PM Central Standard Time,

dbonorato4@... writes:

> It never hurts to have a copy of IDEA or your state regulations or both with

> you either. Dog-ear the pages and highlight important passages. This can

> let them know (or make them think) that you know the law.

> Elaine

HI

For every IEP meeting I bring; IDEA, State Regs, County policies, School

policies sooooooo that when they say " This is policy " I say " show me it in

writing " Ive only had to say this once, and it was concerning a new rule

made up by the Principal, saying that parents could NOT talk to the Para's. I

also brought in the 504 law and showed them that they could not put up a

barrier to my daughters education and myself ..... telling me I could NOT

talk to the Para's was a barrier

Kathy mom to Sara 11

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/20/2003 5:48:32 AM Central Standard Time,

wildwards@... writes:

> While we know the intent is to have blank pages and the team fills it in, I

> know few people where that happens.

>

> Our LEA is going to computerized forms and they are going to send home

> drafts. Our question to the sped dept flabbergasted them .... " if there

> needs

> to be changes made, will you have a computer on hand to do so at the IEP

> meeting? " ;-)

> Their suggestion is to write in on the rough draft the changes and that is

> still the official signed document you take with you at the end of the

> meeting. They will make changes to the computerized form later ... and no

> print out for parents of the document that is stored in computer. Which

> makes us wonder how to insure no keying errors .... say on the service page

> are made?

> We are still working on this one!

> Cheryl in VA

HI Cheryl

I don't know how this can be legal, all changes on the IEP have to be

initialized by me, even if they add page numbers like I insist on have to be

initialed.

Our IEP's went computerized a few years back. When I meet for the Pre-IEP

meeting we do it on a laptop. If I notice something that needs to be changed

at the legal IEP meeting, the change in wrote in by hand and initialed.

Years back I met with the Resource teacher for the Pre-IEP meeting (he was

the Sped person back then) and he tried to use computerized goals and

objectives. I was flabbergasted because they were not individualized. I

balked and we turned off his computerized program and designed Sara's goals

together. Now this does worry me about the countless kids who go to his room

and have him as the service personal. I'm sure he still uses this program for

them. Maybe its OK for LD labels but it doesn't sound right to me.

Kathy mom to Sara 11 .......... our Curriculum Coordinator is our

administrator for our IEP meetings, what is the title name for your

administrator at your meetings?

[Guest guest]

Yes, here too. There's an IEP program and it's filled in right there. It's nice

as long as the person is a fast typist. Otherwise it's quicker writing it out

longhand.

Di

Re: Furious

While we know the intent is to have blank pages and the team fills it in, I

know few people where that happens.

Our LEA is going to computerized forms and they are going to send home

drafts. Our question to the sped dept flabbergasted them .... " if there

needs

to be changes made, will you have a computer on hand to do so at the IEP

meeting? " ;-)

Their suggestion is to write in on the rough draft the changes and that is

still the official signed document you take with you at the end of the

meeting. They will make changes to the computerized form later ... and no

print out for parents of the document that is stored in computer. Which

makes us wonder how to insure no keying errors .... say on the service page

are made?

We are still working on this one!

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/21/2003 11:14:34 AM Central Standard Time,

dlneff@... writes:

> I also carry IDEA and state regs, but how do I get my hands on the county

> policies? Is it a law that they have to give them to you if you ask? It

> makes sense, how can you follow policies that you haven't seen??? And if a

> county policy is different/not favorable to your child do they have to

> revert back to the state policy? Are these dumb questions, Kathy? in WV

>

HI

Noooooo not a dumb question some of the policies that are out there

in systems, do not reflect the state regs or federal law ..... like I'll use

my talking to the Para issue. This rule came about because a Para supposedly

told on a school. The parent was able to go to due process and win because of

the information she received from the Para. The rule came about to protect

the School system. Now in Sara's individualized case lol me talking with the

Para on Sara's day, health issues etc. ... is appropriate if not necessary

for Sara to meet her goals. So this policy (not wrote in the policy book lol)

is not appropriate, probably why its not wrote up lol

Visiting classrooms is a common problem in many areas. I checked the policy

out (county policy) and it states its left up to the school principal UGGGGGG

this is why we have some schools who allow it and some who don't. Site based

management again uggggggg I would argue this is not an appropriate policy

because again it puts a barrier up to the child's education and the parent.

When I asked for the county policies (I was advocating for another parent,

another school) I was told I could get it at the library ........ rude much

lol I went to Sara's school and was directed by them to get it online or

they would send it home with Sara. School polices are sent home the first

week of school, with the classroom rules.

You could search online, pull up your county and see if they are there. Here

they are made up by the elected BOE.

Even though ours are pretty vague, the administrators cant come up with the

" It's a policy " line. Ive read them and 9 times out of 10 there is no such

policy

Kathy mom to Sara 11 ....... vague or not, they are intimidating to be seen

on the table heehee

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/21/2003 12:21:47 PM US Mountain Standard Time,

jls1995@... writes:

> I tell them.... we're not going to use these PRE filled out sheets. I want

> blank ones with nothing on them.

Good for you.

Parents!!! The TEAM writes the IEP. INCLUDING YOU! What about the level of

performance. Do YOU have any input into that? So you agree with what they

have written? Do they ask for your input?

I would suggest that BEFORE your next IEP meeting, you get a BLANK IEP form

and study it, understand what each section is for and what affect it has.

Remember, the IEP is a legal binding document that MUST be followed. It is

your tool to make sure your child is working on what you want them working

in, it's the teachers guide as to what the child is working on and what THEY

Are supposed to be teaching them.

And do not forget, write the IEP as if everyone at that table will not be

there next time you have an IEP. Do not assume that anyone will understand

goals or wants or needs. Make sure it is written in black and white.

[Guest guest]

I also carry IDEA and state regs, but how do I get my hands on the county

policies? Is it a law that they have to give them to you if you ask? It

makes sense, how can you follow policies that you haven't seen??? And if a

county policy is different/not favorable to your child do they have to

revert back to the state policy? Are these dumb questions, Kathy? in WV

Re: Furious

> In a message dated 2/20/2003 4:32:39 PM Central Standard Time,

> dbonorato4@... writes:

>

>

> > It never hurts to have a copy of IDEA or your state regulations or both

with

> > you either. Dog-ear the pages and highlight important passages. This

can

> > let them know (or make them think) that you know the law.

> > Elaine

>

>

> HI

>

> For every IEP meeting I bring; IDEA, State Regs, County policies, School

> policies sooooooo that when they say " This is policy " I say " show me it in

> writing " Ive only had to say this once, and it was concerning a new

rule

> made up by the Principal, saying that parents could NOT talk to the

Para's. I

> also brought in the 504 law and showed them that they could not put up a

> barrier to my daughters education and myself ..... telling me I could NOT

> talk to the Para's was a barrier

>

> Kathy mom to Sara 11

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/21/2003 11:18:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, b4alltoday

writes:

> I was flabbergasted because they were not individualized. I

> balked and we turned off his computerized program and

> designed Sara's goals

> together.

Yes, cookie cutter goals selected from a menu is my fear when the program

actually goes into place.

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/21/03 11:50:50 PM Central Standard Time, RSYOSH@...

writes:

> SELPA stands for Special Education Local Plan area

>

Oh ok, they do belong to a special education district that's set up to help

with cost sharing. My understanding is it just basically helps the small

schools get the therapists they need without having to pay the salery and

benefits needed to get them, this also gives them someone who'll tell them

that yes in deed they do have to provide _______. They've never been a big

part of the IEP process, the only ones we've seen much of are the actual

therapists who are involved with our child, and that only to help write goals

and objectives, which makes sense since the principle is the one with

authority to deny services, the sped district doesn't have anything to do

with that. The sped district does have to work within its own buget tho.

Joy

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/22/03 8:32:00 AM Pacific Standard Time,

JTesmer799@... writes:

>

> >SELPA stands for Special Education Local Plan area

> >

>

> Oh ok, they do belong to a special education district that's set up to

> help

> with cost sharing. My understanding is it just basically helps the small

> schools get the therapists they need without having to pay the salery and

> benefits needed to get them, this also gives them someone who'll tell them

> that yes in deed they do have to provide _______. They've never been a

> big

> part of the IEP process, the only ones we've seen much of are the actual

> therapists who are involved with our child, and that only to help write

> goals

> and objectives, which makes sense since the principle is the one with

> authority to deny services, the sped district doesn't have anything to do

> with that. The sped district does have to work within its own buget tho.

> Joy

>

>

Ahhh... but they WILL be part of the IEP process if you ASK. Ask who the

" program specialist " for your school is. They may call the person something

different. But there will be someone assigned to your school to oversee the

program.

This is the first line of attack when you are having a problem. Call the

SELPA and ask if they can send someone to attend the meeting. THe district

will DEFER to them on points of law, and just having them in the room keeps

the other side honest and non confrontational. In one case I even watched as

the SELPA rep rip the old IEP (transfered from another school in the

district) in half, saying that it had been written wrong.

If things get really sticky, you can ask then to run the metting. We did

that for 6 months... there job was to build trust and get things back on

track. It made a HUGE difference in our case. And it doesn't cost you

anything!

- Becky

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/22/03 6:10:03 PM Central Standard Time, RSYOSH@...

writes:

> >Oh ok, they do belong to a special education district that's set up to

> >help

> >with cost sharing. My understanding is it just basically helps the small

> >schools get the therapists they need without having to pay the salery and

> >benefits needed to get them, this also gives them someone who'll tell them

>

> >that yes in deed they do have to provide _______. They've never been a

> >big

> >part of the IEP process,

> >

> >

>

> Ahhh... but they WILL be part of the IEP process if you ASK. Ask who the

> " program specialist " for your school is. They may call the person

> something

> different. But there will be someone assigned to your school to oversee

> the

> program.

>

> T

Well I did say that they also got legal advice from their sped dist. In fact

we had two meetings in which this man was present. The first time they

introduced him into the meeting I felt they (school) were actually acting

treatening. I didn't go to that meeting without a Parent advocate. And I

Don't think I would go to a meeting in which someone like this would be

attending without someone to back me up now either. (I just don't trust

them) But all in all this guy was ok. hehe. Now if he would be the exact

same way without me having someone to back me up? I honestly don't know, and

I've been burned to many other ways to try it alone to find out.

Joy

[Guest guest]

OMG! I saw that too and was thinking the same thing! I wasn't screaming at

the tv though, the kids were still sleeping.

Sara

Furious

> On the today show they talked about how eating sea food tuna etc and hte

> risk of the Mercury. Then she said that parents with children with

learning

> disablilities and suck should second look the tuna they have been eating

it may

> have caused the issue. WHAT ABOUT all the F****** Mercury they shoot in

them

> via vaccines NOT one mention of that UGGHH I want to scream well i was

screaming

> at the TV but didnt do me any good lol. Just really makes me angry

>

> Amy

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks guys for the input about changes you know of that have helped scoli

patients. As you point out, most of the changes are in either bracing (before

surgery) or in surgical technique for the first fusion. Those changes are new to

me since I have no experience with recent advancements for a " new " scoli

patient. Thankfully it appears that both of my children have escaped the dreaded

disease.

I wish there was something I could DO to advance the search for a cure. I did

participate in a study via Wyeth Labs that lead to their new mouth swab

(genetic) test that is supposed to predict which scoli patients are likely to

have significant curvature increase after diagnosis. But I wish I could lobby

for funding for more research, or just speed up the research process...lol. It

is just amazing to me that no cure has been found and so many people are

affected by scoliosis.

Also - re my search for a chair... Again, thanks for your help. I will check

into getting a kneeling chair. I assume the kneeling chair and the " posture "

chair is one and the same. I'm glad to know it helps before I invest.

Sincerely,

in SC