Guest guest Posted August 9, 2006 Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 , I would venture to say that someone IS addressing your pain! The medications that you are taking should, hopefully, allow you to " get a handle on that pain " . Many medications have a primary and also a secondary purpose. That is likely in your case. Why not give these meds a few weeks just to see what does happen? You have nothing to lose! Carole M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2006 Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 oh, more one thing: i'm on meds. possibly the wrong ones. they put me on zyprexa 10 mg, and my face puffed up like..a pufferfish, and made me hungry, and sleepy..now they want me to start abilify. i know that back pain & depression/anxiety goe hand in hand sometimes, but no one is addressing my back pain!! grrr!! > > Hey all, > Hope everyone is..hanging in there. Not trying to bring any > negativity, but I managed to wean myself off meds, yes, I have pain, > but I've heard of people, even post-surgery (and I mean very few), who > are not on meds. The tapering off wasn't as hard as I thought it would > be, and now that I'm supposed not addicted..my back pain, is..well I'm > feeling what I've been numbing, and even people have done that, and > after a couple weeks 'gotten used to a certain amount of pain'. If it > wasn't for pain, I know I could live w/o painkillers. I'm just > frustrated right now, because I can't work, people see my face, think > I'm psychotic, or just had MAJOR surgery - my WHOLE LIFE IS AFFECTED > right now - and my friends don't even want to be around me. Plus, my > doctor's are giving me a hard time about meds, they think I don't need > them anymore. *sigh* > I don't know if this post is going to help anyone, even my venting, > but I just wanted to vent, anyone else gone through this? I mean I know > my back isn't as bad as other's people's but I'm just frustrated..I > can't seem to be patient at all these days (because of all the physical > pain) > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2006 Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 True, thanks for the advice. It can't get worse, can it? However, it's not medication directed directly at the source of the pain, but, it's something that should help me be 'less sensitive in general.' > > , > > I would venture to say that someone IS addressing your pain! The > medications that you are taking should, hopefully, allow you to " get a handle on that > pain " . Many medications have a primary and also a secondary purpose. That is > likely in your case. Why not give these meds a few weeks just to see what > does happen? You have nothing to lose! > > Carole M. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 2006 Report Share Posted August 10, 2006 , I really was not speaking of your being " less sensitive " . I, too, have had awful back pain over the years due to severe scoliosis. I have learned that there are second and third uses of drugs, and that some drugs encourage our making endorphins, etc., that definitely help dull pain. One type of drug for that is the antidepressant. Please understand that I had not wanted to make fun of your pain or of what your doctors are giving you. Believe me. Sincerely, Carole M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 2006 Report Share Posted August 10, 2006 Carole, I didn't take it that way at all. I'm willing to (and am) giving it a shot..tnx for feedback, > > , > > I really was not speaking of your being " less sensitive " . I, too, have had > awful back pain over the years due to severe scoliosis. I have learned that > there are second and third uses of drugs, and that some drugs encourage our > making endorphins, etc., that definitely help dull pain. One type of drug for > that is the antidepressant. Please understand that I had not wanted to make > fun of your pain or of what your doctors are giving you. Believe me. > Sincerely, > Carole M. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 , that was a really beautiful letter you wrote. You do know so much more than I about these things! I actually did not want to say what I knew about Abilify. My granddaughter, who has bipolar disorder, has had to take it. I cannot imagine why these meds are being dispensed with no counseling! Anyway, I could never have said it as you did, ! Thank you! And, Jill, I do hope that you are able to get to a Pain Clinic. That was the real answer for me. Even then, it was a " trial and error " system until we hit on what my MD calls the " right cocktail " . The best of luck to you! Carole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 Whoa! Did I say " Jill " when I wrote to ? My apologies, ! Carole M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2006 Report Share Posted August 11, 2006 This post addresses some issues recently raised by and Carole M. Zyprexa (olanzapine) -- the medication could not tolerate -- is technically not an antidepressant. It is used to treat mania in bipolar disorder but is not FDA-approved for depression per se. Abilify (aripriprazole)is even more popular these days for preventing rapid cycling in bipolar disorder. (Generally, " rapid cycling " means switching between depression and mania -- or hypomania -- at least as often as every few months.) Like Zyprexa, Abilify is classified as an atypical antipsychotic. It is also used to " dial down " the delusions and hallucinations that may torment people with schizophrenia. It is true that certain antidepressants are sometimes used for the kind of pain that results specifically from an " overly sensitized " nervous system. As you probably know, having such pain is not the same as being a hypersensitive or overly sensitive person. Rather, this " nerve pain " is a physiologic phenomenon, very common in those of us who have been through one or more scoliosis surgeries or revisions. But only a specific type of antidepressant, one of the so- called tricyclics (prototype: imipramine), is prescribed for such pain. The dose is much smaller than the effective dose for depression. For instance, a friend of mine had trouble sleeping because of leg pain resulting from diabetic neuropathy. She was greatly helped by just 10 mg of Elavil, taken each night around her bedtime. Nerve pain may also be treated with certain anticonvulsants, e.g., Neurontin. As I understand it, 's doctor(s) have her on a different regimen entirely. I am not sure there is evidence that a drug like Abilify raises endorphin levels or otherwise helps serious back pain. Also, , do you have any idea what might be causing your pain? Pain management specialists are likely to prescribe very different remedies for " muscle pain " and " nerve pain " respectively. Many of us are likely to have complex pain syndromes involving multiple mechanisms. For instance, a surgeon has recently cut through multiple layers of tissue in our backs, plus we have inflammation from early arthritic changes, plus the pain of irritated nerve roots has in turn caused additional irritation, inducing a vicious downward spiral. In addition, we not be healing normally after surgery or may have some unanticipated problem with newly implanted hardware. As I see it, , your primary symptom is not being addressed at all. This would -- and should -- upset any of us! There is no excuse for allowing anyone with persistent pain to go on suffering. Regrettably, however, the undermedication of pain is all too common. This is why the APF and other organizations recently urged concerned individuals to fax or email their representatives in Congress, asking them to attend a hearing on proposed legislation to improve the treatment of pain in the U.S. (My own representative wrote back to explain why she favoreed an even stronger bill.) Many physicians are afraid of ecouraging addiction by prescribing narcotics. In reality, the rate of addiction is about .01 percent -- that's one one-hundredth of one percent, or 1 in 10,000 -- among patients who receive opiates for pain and who have no history of drug addiction. Even those who do have a history of substance abuse or addiction may need to take prescription narcotics, under very close and careful medical supervision, if their pain is sufficiently severe. Physicians may also be intimidated by tight federal regulations and the reported zealotry of some Drug Enforcement Administration efforts. It is also unfortunate that so many of us -- doctors and patients alike -- have been exposed to so many erroneous and sensationalistic press reports about the most useful and effective long-acting narcotics, particularly OxyContin. When someone with terrible back pain is enabled to function better in daily life -- sometimes to function at all -- by a medication such as OxyContin, MSContin, or methadone, responsibly prescribed by the surgeon or pain management specialist, this is a very good and merciful thing. It has nothing to do with the world of black market trafficking and intentional alteration of long-acting drugs for the purpose of getting a " quick hit " and an artificial " high. " , I do not know your history. I trust that you know why you are receiving potent antipsychotic mood stabilizers. I also trust you are satisfied that these are appropriate drugs for your particular condition. Regarding your untreated pain, you may just need to be very insistent and persistent, bugging your doctors for appropriate treatment or a more specialized referral until they come throug for you. In today's health care system, we all have to be our own advocates. Sometimes this means being a real squeaky wheel or even a pain in the gluteus maximus to our doctors. I do know how difficult this can be, especially when you are already debilitated by chronic pain. I am so sorry to hear about your recent and current ordeal. Please try not to let anyone, including those with MD credentials, frighten or guilt-trip you about needing pain medication, simply out of their own ignorance or fear. I wish you the very best and hope you will soon be able to access the help you need and deserve. Best, > > , > > I really was not speaking of your being " less sensitive " . I, too, have had > awful back pain over the years due to severe scoliosis. I have learned that > there are second and third uses of drugs, and that some drugs encourage our > making endorphins, etc., that definitely help dull pain. One type of drug for > that is the antidepressant. Please understand that I had not wanted to make > fun of your pain or of what your doctors are giving you. Believe me. > Sincerely, > Carole M. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2006 Report Share Posted August 14, 2006 Dear , Thank you so much for the time and thought you put into this post! I'm sure this has helped a lot of people with questions about different medications. Could you give a little more information about the legislation on pain medications hearing? Has it already taken place? I agree completely with you that so many doctors are afraid to prescribe narcotics because they hear stories, many of them unfortunately true, about physicians who have been to hell and back because their treatment of pain in their patients was misunderstood by non-medical people in power positions. I know doctors who decided it was easier to avoid writing narcotic prescriptions in most cases, and not at all to the chronic patient. I saw those same doctors refuse to give patients who were for some reason referred to them when they had to be hospitalized, the narcotic medications that they routinely took outside the hospital. Add withdrawal to some other problem or illness and the hospitalization was even worse than it had to be for the poor patient. It was the worse possible case scenario and the nursing staff, there with the poor patient for 12 hours at the time, had their hands tied in so many cases. Just awful! But, as in every profession, there are the bad apples. The doctors who do abuse narcotics themselves, and/or write copious narcotic prescriptions to patients with no medical need for them. And often they are written to people the doctor doesn't actually lay their eyes, much less their hands, on. So the legislators hear about these few and hopefully far between, and jump up and down and make new laws regulating perfectly safe drugs that are the very life-blood for the pain patient. So....... where is the sane and reasonable solution? Goodness- I didn't mean to veer off into this so deeply. As I noted in an earlier response, I am now the happy owner of a lap top and can read all the posts and rant away in response. I'm like a child with a new toy- the new will soon wear off and I won't be writing a novelette to every post. Anyway, my cat has just jumped on top of me, joining one of my three dogs on the bed, so I guess it's time to sign off! I would appreciate the information about that hearing if you have a minute to write. Thank you! Bea Rasche <feistyfounder@...> wrote: This post addresses some issues recently raised by and Carole M. Zyprexa (olanzapine) -- the medication could not tolerate -- is technically not an antidepressant. It is used to treat mania in bipolar disorder but is not FDA-approved for depression per se. Abilify (aripriprazole)is even more popular these days for preventing rapid cycling in bipolar disorder. (Generally, " rapid cycling " means switching between depression and mania -- or hypomania -- at least as often as every few months.) Like Zyprexa, Abilify is classified as an atypical antipsychotic. It is also used to " dial down " the delusions and hallucinations that may torment people with schizophrenia. It is true that certain antidepressants are sometimes used for the kind of pain that results specifically from an " overly sensitized " nervous system. As you probably know, having such pain is not the same as being a hypersensitive or overly sensitive person. Rather, this " nerve pain " is a physiologic phenomenon, very common in those of us who have been through one or more scoliosis surgeries or revisions. But only a specific type of antidepressant, one of the so- called tricyclics (prototype: imipramine), is prescribed for such pain. The dose is much smaller than the effective dose for depression. For instance, a friend of mine had trouble sleeping because of leg pain resulting from diabetic neuropathy. She was greatly helped by just 10 mg of Elavil, taken each night around her bedtime. Nerve pain may also be treated with certain anticonvulsants, e.g., Neurontin. As I understand it, 's doctor(s) have her on a different regimen entirely. I am not sure there is evidence that a drug like Abilify raises endorphin levels or otherwise helps serious back pain. Also, , do you have any idea what might be causing your pain? Pain management specialists are likely to prescribe very different remedies for " muscle pain " and " nerve pain " respectively. Many of us are likely to have complex pain syndromes involving multiple mechanisms. For instance, a surgeon has recently cut through multiple layers of tissue in our backs, plus we have inflammation from early arthritic changes, plus the pain of irritated nerve roots has in turn caused additional irritation, inducing a vicious downward spiral. In addition, we not be healing normally after surgery or may have some unanticipated problem with newly implanted hardware. As I see it, , your primary symptom is not being addressed at all. This would -- and should -- upset any of us! There is no excuse for allowing anyone with persistent pain to go on suffering. Regrettably, however, the undermedication of pain is all too common. This is why the APF and other organizations recently urged concerned individuals to fax or email their representatives in Congress, asking them to attend a hearing on proposed legislation to improve the treatment of pain in the U.S. (My own representative wrote back to explain why she favoreed an even stronger bill.) Many physicians are afraid of ecouraging addiction by prescribing narcotics. In reality, the rate of addiction is about .01 percent -- that's one one-hundredth of one percent, or 1 in 10,000 -- among patients who receive opiates for pain and who have no history of drug addiction. Even those who do have a history of substance abuse or addiction may need to take prescription narcotics, under very close and careful medical supervision, if their pain is sufficiently severe. Physicians may also be intimidated by tight federal regulations and the reported zealotry of some Drug Enforcement Administration efforts. It is also unfortunate that so many of us -- doctors and patients alike -- have been exposed to so many erroneous and sensationalistic press reports about the most useful and effective long-acting narcotics, particularly OxyContin. When someone with terrible back pain is enabled to function better in daily life -- sometimes to function at all -- by a medication such as OxyContin, MSContin, or methadone, responsibly prescribed by the surgeon or pain management specialist, this is a very good and merciful thing. It has nothing to do with the world of black market trafficking and intentional alteration of long-acting drugs for the purpose of getting a " quick hit " and an artificial " high. " , I do not know your history. I trust that you know why you are receiving potent antipsychotic mood stabilizers. I also trust you are satisfied that these are appropriate drugs for your particular condition. Regarding your untreated pain, you may just need to be very insistent and persistent, bugging your doctors for appropriate treatment or a more specialized referral until they come throug for you. In today's health care system, we all have to be our own advocates. Sometimes this means being a real squeaky wheel or even a pain in the gluteus maximus to our doctors. I do know how difficult this can be, especially when you are already debilitated by chronic pain. I am so sorry to hear about your recent and current ordeal. Please try not to let anyone, including those with MD credentials, frighten or guilt-trip you about needing pain medication, simply out of their own ignorance or fear. I wish you the very best and hope you will soon be able to access the help you need and deserve. Best, > > , > > I really was not speaking of your being " less sensitive " . I, too, have had > awful back pain over the years due to severe scoliosis. I have learned that > there are second and third uses of drugs, and that some drugs encourage our > making endorphins, etc., that definitely help dull pain. One type of drug for > that is the antidepressant. Please understand that I had not wanted to make > fun of your pain or of what your doctors are giving you. Believe me. > Sincerely, > Carole M. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2006 Report Share Posted August 14, 2006 Bea, I have read both of your recent posts, and just wanted you to know that you, like , have helped our cause immensely because of your ability to state it so well! I think that you should run, not walk, to the American Pain Foundation site (.org) and join! Their goal is our goal! As my own doctor has told me, we who need the pain meds never get a " buzz " like those who misuse drugs! We are fighting pain! We are not filling our " off time " with casual drug use! Thank you for your time and energy. I'm sure that many people will fare better because of these great posts, Sincerely, Carole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2006 Report Share Posted August 15, 2006 Dear Carole, Thank you so much for your kind words- I clicked on 'send' after what I felt was possibly an over-the-top rant of personal feelings and for a moment wanted to pull the post back and redo it. So I feel better. I will do as you said and go to the Pain Foundation site. I saw it referenced in the post by and planned to find out more. We all do need to stand together in our fight to keep our doctors protected who work in the pain management field, or we may wake up one day to find their offices closed. That is such a real fear to me it's hard to even express the degree of feelings I have. I know everyone else must have the same concerns. You are so right about the difference in our experience with the drugs and the 'recreational' users' experiences. People can't understand why I seem " normal " while taking such high powered medications. Of course I don't tell just anyone that I'm even on meds, but those close to me know. I've actually had a smart person say " it must be nice to go around in la-la land all day " ! Others seem to think that it would be impossible for me to have any pain, like a headache, or pain when I broke my toe. There is huge need for education. I had to quit watching 'House' on Fox because of the way they handled the doctor's chronic pain on the show. It was a horrible example of pain meds being misused and pain misjudged by other 'professionals'. I know they just play doctors on TV. But it is the mindset of most of America. Hoping everyone has a great day! Bea Bea, I have read both of your recent posts, and just wanted you to know that you, like , have helped our cause immensely because of your ability to state it so well! I think that you should run, not walk, to the American Pain Foundation site (.org) and join! Their goal is our goal! As my own doctor has told me, we who need the pain meds never get a " buzz " like those who misuse drugs! We are fighting pain! We are not filling our " off time " with casual drug use! Thank you for your time and energy. I'm sure that many people will fare better because of these great posts, Sincerely, Carole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 15, 2006 Report Share Posted August 15, 2006 Dear , Beverly, and Carole and those that replied to my earlier posts. THANK YOU OH SO MUCH! I replied earlier with a long post but when I hit the send button it took forever and finally an error page came up. Therefore I do not think it went through. I have cable internet so I believe it was the server on the other end. Anyhow, after reading your posts, I think that I will be sending a letter to my state representatives and I am considering writing my full story down and send it to the local paper for consideration of print. When I do, I am also going to send it to the doctors that I have been to years past just to educate them. If it possibly helps out one person futuristically, then it will be more than worth the trouble! For those whom have fear of becoming addicted to the medication I am going to say this. I made myself go a week without my medication when I was fearing of being addicted. I do smoke cigarettes and am addicted to nicotine and know what addiction is. The only thing that I had to contend with was the physical withdrawals of the medication. I had a bad headache and my pain was throughout my whole body and seemed magnified. This could have been just me being use to lesser pain and previously having a higher tolerance for the pain or my pain just plainly increasing in that time frame. I spoke to my pharmacist about the possibility of addiction. He stated that yes there would be a good possibility that your body will be dependent on the pain medication and when stopped you could encounter withdrawal symptoms. He stated that that can be easily dealt with when the time comes that my pain is gone. He stated that the addiction comes when you don't need the meds and want the meds to get a high. Truthfully I don't know what kind of high you get off of pain meds. They can make you sleepy and foggy brained which is a side effect I don't like. Sometimes I take a vivarin (I don't drink coffee) just to get some pep back and not be sleepy. Anyway, I would like to put out a request to you with scoliosis. I, as I am sure many others, would like to hear your story regarding your scoliosis and the impact it has made in your life. I don't know about others, but in my case, I would like to hear details. It may give insight to some of us whom are finally beginning to receive treatment and options that we may explore or trials that we may be up against. Perhaps tell us some of what your neurological problems are and what has and what has not helped you. THANK YOU SO MUCH EVERYONE! The only true stories I have heard are the success stories that the doctors put up on their web sites to bring in more business. > > Bea, > I have read both of your recent posts, and just wanted you to know that you, > like , have helped our cause immensely because of your ability to > state it so well! > > I think that you should run, not walk, to the American Pain Foundation site > (.org) and join! Their goal is our goal! As my own doctor has told me, we > who need the pain meds never get a " buzz " like those who misuse drugs! We are > fighting pain! We are not filling our " off time " with casual drug use! > > Thank you for your time and energy. I'm sure that many people will fare > better because of these great posts, > > Sincerely, > > Carole > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 Thanks so much for your kind words, Carole. Best, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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