Autism and vaccinations

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/12/00 4:58:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

egroups writes:

<< there was a program on the tv that showed a congressional hearing on the

link

between immunizations and autism. Some father was talking (with tears in

his

eyes) about how his 'perfect' little boy had changed into a self-stim,

antisocial, nonverbal, food-refusing child who required a one-on-one aide

perpetually. Well, my sister saw the program as well...and declared that

the

child they were describing was JUST LIKE BENJAMIN. >>

I saw that too, and mentioned this on the list a few weeks ago......they were

trying to determine whether vaccinations caused their children to get

autism.......

[Guest guest]

yes , i seen it too, makes one wonder doesnt it, shawna.

[Guest guest]

I wonder if Amish kids get amalgam fillings.

Lynn

> I have no links handy, but from what I read, the Autism " hot spots "

> coincide with areas of the nations with many upper middle class people

> who let the docs vaccinate their kids much more than in poorer regions

> where parents are much more lax about vaccinations. Amish kids, who

> are never vaccinated, have a zero rate of autism, except where kids

> had been adopted and had previously been vaccinated.

>

> Alobar

[Guest guest]

>From: Irene.M@...

>But does that mean it is causal in the sense that they would get autism

>without any other trigger. Lots of kids get vaccinated, and live near coal

>fired plants without getting autism. It might be the gene only predicts who

>might be susceptible to mercury or whatever.

>Irene

>

>At 06:06 PM 12/9/2006, you wrote:

>>That is not true. The latest research indicates that the in the Amish

>>population, kids with Autism carry a very specific gene that is inherited.

Medicine wants everything blamed on genes, because it's the future of

profitability. Not long ago, I heard that there was more variability in

genes among a tribe of chimpanzess than in the entire human race.

Mike wrote a good article about it, how medicine is going to want to

fight " bad genes " one at a time with medicine or therapy, and how it won't

work. I suspect he's right. It's a good article worth reading -

http://www.newstarget.com/021175.html

Announced with great fanfare in late November, 2006, scientists have

discovered that human DNA is far more variable than previously thought.

Contrary to previous beliefs, as much as 10 percent of human genes vary

wildly from one person to the next.

***********

There also might be more to developing autism from vaccines than we know.

Nick Regush (Redflagsdaily.com) mentioned it was much less likely to happen

in those with adequate levels of Vitamin C. He talked about how inadequate

Vitamin C was in many children, how some of the parents convicted for

shaking their kids to death, actually had children with some form of scurvy

from a deficiency of Vitamin C, and it's not rare with our food supply and

the junk many people pass off as food.

Skipper

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[Guest guest]

I disagree with this a bit...in that I do believe we

are " predisposed " to certain illnesses/conditions because of

genetics. And I think knowing our " genetics " can be helpful in

guiding us on health issues and how to work with our

lifestyle/nutrition/etc. to avoid the issues for which we are pre-

disposed. To me, this in no way blames the person...it's just the

facts of the matter.

Just as an example, I had noticed over the last three years that

those kids predisposed to Hashi's (had a mother with Hashi's) were

developing the disease after the Hep. B vaccine series. It was just

a observation and I started then always asking when a kid/teenager

turned out to have Hashi's if they'd had this particular vaccine.

almost all of them had had it.

Then I learned that the Hep. B vaccine was already known to be

associated with MS, another autoimmune disease.

Then I started reading about autism...and found there is a high rate

of autism among those kids (all vaccinated) of moms with autoimmune

issues like Hashi's.

It doesn't take much more " science " than this for me to figure out

that Hashi's in the parents means the parents might want to think

twice about an overabundance of vaccinations for their kids. It's

obviously triggering the disease much earlier than it might have

occurred.

The real problem here is that many of these kids are going many

years without treatment. This becomes more detrimental for a

developing brain than it might for a person who has the

gene " triggered " after childbirth in their 20s. And obviously, some

of these predisposed kids have developed autism quite early.

And even in the case of mercury (of which vaccines can be a part),

although I agree that mercury is bad news for everyone - it becomes

worst news for those predisposed genetically to Hashi's per my

observation. They are far more sensitive apparently to mercury.

This is so obvious to me as there are plenty of folks with mercury

amalgrams walking around quite healthy with no evidence of disease

and yet I'm see Hashi's person after Hashi's person get sick after

dental work. So I think genetics is important.

Cindi

>

> Although I believe that genes play a role in many health issues I

also

> object to blaming things on genes. If genes were really the main

factor in

> something like autism then why would it be increasing? Presumably

our

> genetic makeup doesn't change from generation to generation.

Having said

> that, I have a nephew that is autistic while his twin sister is

not. So

> unless he was exposed to something she was not, genetics must play

a role.

> I don't even like to think of genetics as a predisposition because

it

> almost lays blame on the ill person for being predisposed to an

problem. I

> figure it this way. Mercury exposure (as an example) is bad news

for

> everyone. Your genetics don't determine if mercury is bad news, it

only

> determines what kind of bad news it is. So for some it might be

autism, for

> others some other problem. Focusing on genetics only looks at the

> expression of the problem not the source.

[Guest guest]

>From: " cindi22595 " <cindi22595@...>

>And even in the case of mercury (of which vaccines can be a part),

>although I agree that mercury is bad news for everyone - it becomes

>worst news for those predisposed genetically to Hashi's per my

>observation. They are far more sensitive apparently to mercury.

>This is so obvious to me as there are plenty of folks with mercury

>amalgrams walking around quite healthy with no evidence of disease

>and yet I'm see Hashi's person after Hashi's person get sick after

>dental work. So I think genetics is important.

>Cindi

The drug companies in the future will be happy to prey on people who blame

genetics for the problems.

Of course, some doctors (e.g. Derry and others) have said the reason that

Hashi's occurs in the first place has to do with iodine or selenium

deficiency. It's hard to correct, with iodine once it's started, and I

haven't actually read Dr. Brownstein's opinion on that.

So, problems that occur from " genetic predisposition " might have a lot more

to do with nutrition and exposure to toxins.

When employers, judges, and others start looking at our DNA to see what our

genetic predisposion is, we'll all be in trouble.

Skipper

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[Guest guest]

Different people react differently to different things. What may be

the cause of disease for one person may not affect another. We should

be very careful about making judgements of any kind, especially

blanket ones, because you are all probably right!

I suffer from a rare, genetic disorder. At least, it is listed on the

rare disorders list still for now. Funny thing is, 1000 years ago I

would have probably been Exorcised or put to death for being a demon

possessed person. 200 yrs ago I probably would have been burned for

being a witch, even tho the condition was by that time medically

identified but untreatable. 50 yrs ago I would have been told my

physical manifestations were all psychosomatic- in my head and a

mental problem, and I would have been institutionalized, no matter

that my thought processes have never been hampered it is only my body.

Now, new research has found no less than 15 different genetic errors

that cause the disorder from which I suffer.... and counting. In my

case, only about 30% of those with the genetic error get sick, and the

illness is usually triggered by something that can be identified.

Because we can test for these errors, many people who had previously

been diagnosed with mental/psychogenic issues or other illnesses which

were not responding to treatment are now being correctly diagnosed and

treated effectively. I am living with genetic disorder causing

disease. For me, tho it be a small number of those with the disease

in the general population, the percentage is still 100%. Knowing the

genetic connection probably saved my life and I am being treated.

Autism, as an example, has been around and documented for more than

1000 yrs. Vaccinations have not. Can vaccinations cause autism in

subjective children- maybe- jury's still out. Can Mercury toxicity

cause autism? From what I've read, Yes. Does that meant that if I

have a child with autism that it was caused by mercury or

vaccinations? NO. Does that then mean that if my child is poisoned

by mercury that I can expect that he/she will become autistic? NO.

But an intelligent person would be looking for possible causes, and

Mercury has been known to cause these problems, and vaccinations are

suspected so I would be looking first for known potential causes ergo

I would be giving the eyeball to mercury and vaccinations. That is

not to say that I wouldn't also be looking at lead or other illness or

causes. We are stupid to limit our research to specific areas when a

whole world is out there in front of us that we haven't even begun to

discover.

Think the Butterfly effect. A butterfly flaps its wings in

Connecticut and a monsoon happens in Japan. Does this mean that the

wings of the butterfly flapped so hard that it created the high winds

and torrential rains of the monsoon? no. More like the ping pong

balls set on 100 mousetraps. Everything is fine and quiet until one

trap is sprung and the ball flies into the air and hits another trap

which springs, which springs 2 others, and so on until the entire room

is filled with ping pong balls flying thru the air and all the traps

laying upside-down on the floor. This is known as a cascade effect and

it makes it pretty hard to deduce which single ping pong ball and trap

started the entire event, but we all know that one of them did.

A wise man/woman keeps an open mind to the many possibilities that may

present themselves. A wiser man/woman also looks for the many

possibilities that hide themselves.

E (Ellen in Missouri)

> >>That is not true. The latest research indicates that the in the

Amish

> >>population, kids with Autism carry a very specific gene that is

inherited.

>

> Medicine wants everything blamed on genes, because it's the future of

> profitability. Not long ago, I heard that there was more

variability in

> genes among a tribe of chimpanzess than in the entire human race.

>

> Mike wrote a good article about it, how medicine is going to

want to

> fight " bad genes " one at a time with medicine or therapy, and how it

won't

> work. I suspect he's right. It's a good article worth reading -

>

> http://www.newstarget.com/021175.html

> Announced with great fanfare in late November, 2006, scientists have

> discovered that human DNA is far more variable than previously thought.

> Contrary to previous beliefs, as much as 10 percent of human genes vary

> wildly from one person to the next.

> ***********

>

> There also might be more to developing autism from vaccines than we

know.

> Nick Regush (Redflagsdaily.com) mentioned it was much less likely to

happen

> in those with adequate levels of Vitamin C. He talked about how

inadequate

> Vitamin C was in many children, how some of the parents convicted for

> shaking their kids to death, actually had children with some form of

scurvy

> from a deficiency of Vitamin C, and it's not rare with our food

supply and

> the junk many people pass off as food.

>

>

> Skipper

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day

trial!

>

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m/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail

>

[Guest guest]

This reminds me that the first book I ordered about thyroid problems

said that Hashimoto's, the most common cause for thyroid disorder,

was a RARE disease. I remember reading that and thinking " well I

know some small town southern gal doesn't have a Rare

disease " ....and so I started looking for some other reasons for my

problems, even though I continued to ask for thyroid testing just in

case.

I imagine untreated Hashi's folks mighta been burned at the stake

too.

cindi

>

> I suffer from a rare, genetic disorder. At least, it is listed on

the

> rare disorders list still for now. Funny thing is, 1000 years ago

I

> would have probably been Exorcised or put to death for being a

demon

> possessed person.

[Guest guest]

there are obviously those who want to believe iodine deficiency is

the cause of Hashi's (and all ills it appears sometimes).

There are others like me who have no doubt whatsoever that in my

family and others - it is a genetic disease passed down...and

triggered most often by childbirth/menopause in females. Sure, it

could be nutrition/environmental triggered too....but difficult

unless one lives in a bubble and eats organic from birth - to avoid

those type of triggers.

Of course I believe one has to look further than just saying " iodine

deficiency " ....the question has to be asked when there are multiple

generations from different locales...can they even properly absorb

iodine? or is normal iodine intake the culprit, etc. there is

obviously some common genetic denonimator...in addition to iodine

intake or lack of. and so far, one can't just throw iodine at a

hashi's person and get a cure. in fact throwing iodine at it has

been shown to exaccerbate the problem.

I agree that pharmaceutical companies are trying to find genetic

causes....I've studied this mostly in relation to

psychological/psychiatric issues. so far, they haven't had much

luck...and in the once instance I can recall at the

moment....bipolar being related to the gene that causes autoimmune

thyroid disease...I wondered how in the world they missed the fact

that the bipolar wasn't something separate from the autoimmune

thyroid disease...but was in all likelihood just a manifestation of

it.

drug companies also forget that genes can mutate..I see this alot in

PKD (polycystic kidney disease) that my daughter has...a totally

genetic disease and yet cases are now appearing with no genetic

link. All sorts of environmental toxins could be the cause.

cindi

>

> >From: " cindi22595 " <cindi22595@...>

>

>

> >And even in the case of mercury (of which vaccines can be a part),

> >although I agree that mercury is bad news for everyone - it

becomes

> >worst news for those predisposed genetically to Hashi's per my

> >observation. They are far more sensitive apparently to mercury.

> >This is so obvious to me as there are plenty of folks with mercury

> >amalgrams walking around quite healthy with no evidence of disease

> >and yet I'm see Hashi's person after Hashi's person get sick after

> >dental work. So I think genetics is important.

> >Cindi

>

> The drug companies in the future will be happy to prey on people

who blame

> genetics for the problems.

>

> Of course, some doctors (e.g. Derry and others) have said the

reason that

> Hashi's occurs in the first place has to do with iodine or

selenium

> deficiency. It's hard to correct, with iodine once it's started,

and I

> haven't actually read Dr. Brownstein's opinion on that.

>

> So, problems that occur from " genetic predisposition " might have a

lot more

> to do with nutrition and exposure to toxins.

>

> When employers, judges, and others start looking at our DNA to see

what our

> genetic predisposion is, we'll all be in trouble.

[Guest guest]

Here are the genes for autism.

http://goodgene.kribb.re.kr/cgi-bin/cards/carddisp?AUTS2

http://goodgene.kribb.re.kr/cgi-bin/cards/listdiseasecards?type=full

It would be easy to criticize a field of study that is so new... 6 years old.

But I think that finally nutrition is being spotlighted as influencing disease

and now gene expression. True, the amount of patents for targeted gene

expression drugs is huge but new degree programs at major universities that

concentrate of nutrition as the key to controlling genes and prevention of

major diseases is exciting. If I had 8 years to spare I would go back to

school and get a degree in the new Nutrigenomics at the University of

California.

http://nutrigenomics.ucdavis.edu/

--- Skipper Beers <lsb149@...> wrote:

> >From: Irene.M@...

>

> >But does that mean it is causal in the sense that they would get autism

> >without any other trigger. Lots of kids get vaccinated, and live near coal

> >fired plants without getting autism. It might be the gene only predicts who

> >might be susceptible to mercury or whatever.

> >Irene

> >

> >At 06:06 PM 12/9/2006, you wrote:

> >>That is not true. The latest research indicates that the in the Amish

> >>population, kids with Autism carry a very specific gene that is inherited.

>

> Medicine wants everything blamed on genes, because it's the future of

> profitability. Not long ago, I heard that there was more variability in

> genes among a tribe of chimpanzess than in the entire human race.

>

> Mike wrote a good article about it, how medicine is going to want to

> fight " bad genes " one at a time with medicine or therapy, and how it won't

> work. I suspect he's right. It's a good article worth reading -

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

My comment actually had nothing to do with Graves or Hashi's, but on a

sister disease to Parkinson's called Dystonia. It too is a movement

disorder. There are many types of Dystonia, but I suffer from one of

the rarest called Generalized Dopamine Responsive Dystonia which

causes seizure-like body-wide muscle spasms that can last hours or

days causing agonizing pain and damage to joints and tissues. I too

am a small town southern gal, but I do have this disorder and so did

my aunt and other relatives who came from such rural areas that they

were simply put in bed until they died. I am the first to receive

treatment because before me, nobody knew there was a way to treat it.

You don't have to be a big city girl to have a genetic error causing

disease.

E (Ellen in Missouri)

> >

> > I suffer from a rare, genetic disorder. At least, it is listed on

> the

> > rare disorders list still for now. Funny thing is, 1000 years ago

> I

> > would have probably been Exorcised or put to death for being a

> demon

> > possessed person.

>

[Guest guest]

Or perhaps, like Dystonia, there is more than one error that can cause

the problem.

E

> >

> > >From: " cindi22595 " <cindi22595@>

> >

> >

> > >And even in the case of mercury (of which vaccines can be a part),

> > >although I agree that mercury is bad news for everyone - it

> becomes

> > >worst news for those predisposed genetically to Hashi's per my

> > >observation. They are far more sensitive apparently to mercury.

> > >This is so obvious to me as there are plenty of folks with mercury

> > >amalgrams walking around quite healthy with no evidence of disease

> > >and yet I'm see Hashi's person after Hashi's person get sick after

> > >dental work. So I think genetics is important.

> > >Cindi

> >

> > The drug companies in the future will be happy to prey on people

> who blame

> > genetics for the problems.

> >

> > Of course, some doctors (e.g. Derry and others) have said the

> reason that

> > Hashi's occurs in the first place has to do with iodine or

> selenium

> > deficiency. It's hard to correct, with iodine once it's started,

> and I

> > haven't actually read Dr. Brownstein's opinion on that.

> >

> > So, problems that occur from " genetic predisposition " might have a

> lot more

> > to do with nutrition and exposure to toxins.

> >

> > When employers, judges, and others start looking at our DNA to see

> what our

> > genetic predisposion is, we'll all be in trouble.

>

[Guest guest]

I think you misinterpreted my comment. It was just noting that just

because something is classified as " rare " ...that doesn't mean it

might not apply to us...as I have found out with regards to Hashi's.

as for relatives...I'm the first to actually get the " hashi's "

diagnosis in my family, although others (like my grandmother)were

treated for hypo...and I have two relatives (mother and cousin)

whose Hashi's was only found at autopsy after suicide. so I'm well

aware that " rare " diseases can abound in one's family and not ever

be diagnosed and treated properly.

hmm...maybe they're " rare " because they aren't accurately diagnosing

these diseases?

cindi

>

> My comment actually had nothing to do with Graves or Hashi's, but

on a

> sister disease to Parkinson's called Dystonia. It too is a

movement

> disorder. There are many types of Dystonia, but I suffer from one

of

> the rarest called Generalized Dopamine Responsive Dystonia which

> causes seizure-like body-wide muscle spasms that can last hours or

> days causing agonizing pain and damage to joints and tissues. I

too

> am a small town southern gal, but I do have this disorder and so

did

> my aunt and other relatives who came from such rural areas that

they

> were simply put in bed until they died. I am the first to receive

> treatment because before me, nobody knew there was a way to treat

it.

> You don't have to be a big city girl to have a genetic error

causing

> disease.

[Guest guest]

We have a DO college here so have met and known a lot of medical

students thru the years. They want specialties. They want something

interesting and exciting. They see nutrition as dull, boring, and

old-fashioned. They all realize the importance, but it just isn't

exciting enough for them. They spend very little time on nutrition...

very sad. I too wish I could go back and study it formally- I find it

fascinating and see so many ways it could be utilized in conjunction

with allopathic and osteopathic methods and philosophies. (I guess I

shouldn't leave out chiropractic either, although they tend to be more

open to the importance of nutrition. Allopaths (MD's)are the worst

IMO) It's too bad we're in the minority.

E (Ellen in Missouri)

> > >>That is not true. The latest research indicates that the in the

Amish

> > >>population, kids with Autism carry a very specific gene that is

inherited.

> >

> > Medicine wants everything blamed on genes, because it's the future of

> > profitability. Not long ago, I heard that there was more

variability in

> > genes among a tribe of chimpanzess than in the entire human race.

> >

> > Mike wrote a good article about it, how medicine is going to

want to

> > fight " bad genes " one at a time with medicine or therapy, and how

it won't

> > work. I suspect he's right. It's a good article worth reading -

> >

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>