Re: iodine and TSH - Skipper

[Guest guest]

I don't know these answers but read over and over that hypers and Graves (low TSH) need iodine. And my TSH has always been hyper/low with severe hypo symptoms.

Gracia

Skipper, you say that with iodine deficiency, less TSH is secreted. Could you explain this in more detail?

I thought that with more iodine, there would be more thyroid hormones. When thyroid hormones are high, TSH goes down.

With low iodine, I would expect low levels of thyroid hormone and high levels of TSH.

Why exactly would low iodine cause low TSH? When would it result in high TSH and when would it result in low TSH?

Thanks.

Zoe

When deficient in iodine, less TSH will be secreted, but the thyroid will be far more sensitive to it. With increased iodine, TSH will go up.So, I would say it's likely in some cases when TSH is low, it's because iodine is, not because the patient is fine.The concept is from thyroidmanager.org, where they talk about how TSH is not elevated in areas of endemic goiter, but the low iodine causes low TSH, but the thyroid is far more sensitive to the TSH it receives.Skipper

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[Guest guest]

>From: " Zoe & " <ZOEA@...>

>Skipper, you say that with iodine deficiency, less TSH is secreted. Could

>you explain this in more detail?

I get it from two places in the thyroid manager chapter on goiter.

The first portion says that in areas of endemic goiter, which is usually

caused by iodine deficiency, that TSH is not elevated. Thus low iodine (or

intake of goitrogens that interfere with iodine utilization) does not cause

TSH to elevate.

The second part explains that when the thyroid is depleted of iodine, this

doesn't elevate TSH it simply makes the gland more sensitive to the little

bit of TSH it gets.

http://thyroidmanager.org/Chapter20/20-frame.htm

" However, elevated TSH in endemic goiter is almost systematically found only

in conditions of extreme iodine deficiency but in only a small fraction of

subjects, usually the youngest . "

http://thyroidmanager.org/Chapter5/5a-frame.htm

" The goitrogens, by blocking hormone synthesis, deplete the thyroid of

iodide; this reduction itself increases the sensitivity of the gland to TSH.

This sensitivity, in turn, further promotes goitrogenicity. "

I think you mentioned on this site that when iodine intake increases, TSH

tends to go up. This would follow that concept. Low iodine is likely to

make the thyroid gland more sensitive to TSH without elevating TSH, but then

when iodine is added, for some reason the pituitary starts to put out more

TSH. So, that would imply the pituitary senses the low iodine, and reacts

to it in some way. Maybe the TSH increases because it knows it can produce

more thyroid hormone.

I've always wondered if the hypothalamus / pituitary needed thyroid hormone

to operate properly, why in long standing cases would you expect the TSH to

be elevated? After all, if the thyroid isn't keeping up, isn't that a waste

of precious energy?

>I thought that with more iodine, there would be more thyroid hormones.

>When thyroid hormones are high, TSH goes down.

>

>With low iodine, I would expect low levels of thyroid hormone and high

>levels of TSH.

This may be true in some people. It says in areas of endemic goiter, a

small percentage of the children are the only ones likely to have elevated

TSH. So, very few will have elevated TSH.

So, why would it be any different for the general population that has too

little iodine? I don't think it would be, which is another reason the TSH

doesn't really mean anything if it's " normal.' "

Skipper

_________________________________________________________________

WIN up to $10,000 in cash or prizes – enter the Microsoft Office Live

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[Guest guest]

If you have autoimmune thyroid disease such as Graves, giving iodine

creates activity within the thyroid gland. This allows the antibodies

to destroy or damage/inflame more of the thyroid which is

contraindicated in most cases. Our disease is our immune system, not

our thyroids. Getting a handle on the autoimmune problems is the key

to going into a state of remission in autoimmune thyroid and can take

years. many use a system of Block and Replace where the body's

thyroid reaction to iodine itself is blocked by ATD's and then

replacement therapy is given until the attack on the thyroid is gone,

then iodine is okay to give unless the patient again goes into an

autoimmune problem. I believe that during Block and Replace, iodine

can be given as the ATD's block the conversion/useage of it in the

thyroid, (constant antibody testing is necessary) but I don't know

this for a fact and more research by someone here should be done first

on that aspect.

E (Ellen in Missouri)

>

>

> I don't know these answers but read over and over that hypers and

Graves (low TSH) need iodine. And my TSH has always been hyper/low

with severe hypo symptoms.

> Gracia

>

>

> Skipper, you say that with iodine deficiency, less TSH is

secreted. Could you explain this in more detail?

>

> I thought that with more iodine, there would be more thyroid

hormones. When thyroid hormones are high, TSH goes down.

>

> With low iodine, I would expect low levels of thyroid hormone and

high levels of TSH.

>

> Why exactly would low iodine cause low TSH? When would it result

in high TSH and when would it result in low TSH?

>

> Thanks.

>

> Zoe

>

>

>

> When deficient in iodine, less TSH will be secreted, but the

thyroid will be

> far more sensitive to it. With increased iodine, TSH will go up.

>

> So, I would say it's likely in some cases when TSH is low, it's

because

> iodine is, not because the patient is fine.

>

> The concept is from thyroidmanager.org, where they talk about

how TSH is not

> elevated in areas of endemic goiter, but the low iodine causes

low TSH, but

> the thyroid is far more sensitive to the TSH it receives.

>

> Skipper

>

>

>

>

>

>

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>

>

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>

[Guest guest]

Wow, this is heavy. And here I was taking iodine to help my

hypothryoid (and concomitant high TSH). Should I reconsider?

Thanks,

-

www.zenpawn.com/vegblog

>

> >From: " Zoe & " <ZOEA@...>

>

> >Skipper, you say that with iodine deficiency, less TSH is

secreted. Could

> >you explain this in more detail?

>

> I get it from two places in the thyroid manager chapter on goiter.

>

> The first portion says that in areas of endemic goiter, which is

usually

> caused by iodine deficiency, that TSH is not elevated. Thus low

iodine (or

> intake of goitrogens that interfere with iodine utilization) does

not cause

> TSH to elevate.

>

> The second part explains that when the thyroid is depleted of

iodine, this

> doesn't elevate TSH it simply makes the gland more sensitive to the

little

> bit of TSH it gets.

>

> http://thyroidmanager.org/Chapter20/20-frame.htm

> " However, elevated TSH in endemic goiter is almost systematically

found only

> in conditions of extreme iodine deficiency but in only a small

fraction of

> subjects, usually the youngest . "

>

> http://thyroidmanager.org/Chapter5/5a-frame.htm

> " The goitrogens, by blocking hormone synthesis, deplete the thyroid

of

> iodide; this reduction itself increases the sensitivity of the

gland to TSH.

> This sensitivity, in turn, further promotes goitrogenicity. "

>

> I think you mentioned on this site that when iodine intake

increases, TSH

> tends to go up. This would follow that concept. Low iodine is

likely to

> make the thyroid gland more sensitive to TSH without elevating TSH,

but then

> when iodine is added, for some reason the pituitary starts to put

out more

> TSH. So, that would imply the pituitary senses the low iodine, and

reacts

> to it in some way. Maybe the TSH increases because it knows it can

produce

> more thyroid hormone.

>

> I've always wondered if the hypothalamus / pituitary needed thyroid

hormone

> to operate properly, why in long standing cases would you expect

the TSH to

> be elevated? After all, if the thyroid isn't keeping up, isn't

that a waste

> of precious energy?

>

> >I thought that with more iodine, there would be more thyroid

hormones.

> >When thyroid hormones are high, TSH goes down.

> >

> >With low iodine, I would expect low levels of thyroid hormone and

high

> >levels of TSH.

>

> This may be true in some people. It says in areas of endemic

goiter, a

> small percentage of the children are the only ones likely to have

elevated

> TSH. So, very few will have elevated TSH.

>

> So, why would it be any different for the general population that

has too

> little iodine? I don't think it would be, which is another reason

the TSH

> doesn't really mean anything if it's " normal.' "

>

> Skipper

[Guest guest]

ly, the more I learn, the more exciting I find the whole notion

of supplementing with iodine (as soon as my present round of hormone

testing is complete).

And, it will be interesting to take part in this group's " experiment " .

My TSH has always been relatively low. It was 2.9 when I was

initially dx's as hypothyroid, and that was after 10 years of gradual

decline.

When dx'd, I couldn't consistently remember my phone number, was

taking 2 naps a day, was horribly depressed, and had a heavenly host

of other hypo symptoms. Can't IMAGINE these people who have double-

or triple-digit TSH results! I'm certain I would have imploded before

I ever got to even the teens!

Once, my TSH was as high as 5.something, but that was after I had been

on thyroid meds, with the thyroid suppressed, then had to go off

thyroid meds for 2 weeks for some testing. I felt like that was more

of a fluke/anomaly due to the suppression of the thyroid, and the TSH

was merely " adjusting " to no thyroid hormone.

So, it will be interesting to see how the iodine affects my thyroid

numbers when I start it...

My 13-year-old daughter has a similar pattern...low TSH 1.15-1.85, but

bargain basement T3 and mid-range T4. I thought that iodine would be

the perfect answer for her, but turns out her progesterone is

extremely high, so we need to wait until her P is normalized.

All in all, it's amazing to observe everyone's experiences.

Warmly,

>

> >From: " Zoe & " <ZOEA@...>

>

> >Skipper, you say that with iodine deficiency, less TSH is secreted.

Could

> >you explain this in more detail?

>

> I get it from two places in the thyroid manager chapter on goiter.

>

> The first portion says that in areas of endemic goiter, which is

usually

> caused by iodine deficiency, that TSH is not elevated. Thus low

iodine (or

> intake of goitrogens that interfere with iodine utilization) does

not cause

> TSH to elevate.

>

> The second part explains that when the thyroid is depleted of

iodine, this

> doesn't elevate TSH it simply makes the gland more sensitive to the

little

> bit of TSH it gets.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Skipper-

Let me first say that I am here because my daughter has Hashi's and I

am looking for ways to help her. This board has led me to look at

many different and interesting prospects that have influenced how we

have thought and acted on her condition. It has also prompted me to

tell others about the possibilities of Iodine supplementation to help

their medical conditions and bodies.

You said : do the doctors even really attempt to isolate whether the

endocrine

> system is in balance? Of course not, if they did, your adrenals

would have

> been tested for cortisol as well as for antibody levels.

>

Be careful of blanket answers for any disease or condition...

Antibodies to my adrenal system were not tested, because my adrenal

system tested out fine no less than 4 times. It is usually adrenal

failure that comes after the body is exhausted from thyroid

dysfunction, not the other way around. If you doubt this fact I

suggest the 's board where it is common to find thyroid

patients eventually having adrenal failure months or years after their

diagnosis. (I participate on that board for my daughter) I have not

seen a single person on that board who started out with 's and

went the other direction. The antibodies go away when given

corticosteroids because the antibodies are reacting to the

inflammatory cells of the thyroid. The steroid treatment will help

the inflammation process and cell destruction as well as lower the

immune system significantly (this is one of the many medical uses of

corticosteroids) and many autoimmune problems will go away this way AS

LONG AS THE PERSON IS RECEIVING THE CORTICOSTEROIDS. This is not a

cure, but only a way to suppress the immune system and works this way

for people whether they have autoimmune issues or not. That does not

mean that it is appropriate to treat with Corticosteroids which can be

dangerous. Raising the levels of these hormones in our bodies can be

devastating and eventually cause all kinds of problems for almost

universally all those who are on them who don't have low levels. Been

there, done that.

As to whether Vitamin C can look like hyperthyroidism, I cannot

comment. Most of the people I know who have autoimmune thyroid issues

do not have a vitamin C deficiency and actually several are vegetarian

or vegan and consume rather large amts of Vit C both in their foods

and in their efforts of supplementation.

Selenium has been shown to be contraindicated in hypER thyroid (it

makes Graves much worse and will make antibody levels shoot thru the

ceiling by it's mode of action on T4 and T3), although can actually

" cure " antibody levels in some Hashi's patients which has been shown

by research if you would want to look it up. I recently spoke with a

researcher in this field and he stated that Selenium in the amount of

not less than 200 daily can often reverse low thyroid levels in

hashi's patients. Selenium aids in the conversion between T4 and T3

which is the hormone our bodies use. Many western diets are mildly

defecient in Selenium as they are iodine. It has been hypothesized

that most people diagnosed with Hashi's in reality were deficient in

iodine- which is why I am here in the first place- I am desperately

trying to help my daughter whose thyroid is quickly burning out from

Hashi's and causing permanent damage we seem so far unable to control.

<None of the people I have talked to after they had radioiodine treatment

> were properly studied to determine the nature of their condition.

It is not my point to be confrontative in the rest of my statements,

but to give you the point of view of someone who has " been there, done

that " . I have been studied for 8 years post RAI. It's too bad I

wasn't studied closer before RAI- it was a dumb choice for a desperate

person who believed the docs who were ignorant themselves. However, I

do still have confirmed antibodies post RAI for both Hashi's and

Graves as do many others, and as my thyroid returns to function 8

years after the fact, I find myself once again dealing with the

effects of this autoimmune condition and mis-informed docs who don't

know how to treat it. Their idea of a cure is to simply do the RAI

again!! I am not interested in treating the symptom, I want to treat

the problem. I will not be deprived of my thyroid again, and am

currently seeking and receiving help from an endo who does actually

have a clue and cares.

Please be careful not to confuse Graves disease with hyperthyroidism.

Hashi's patients more often than not will go thru a period of

hyperthyroidism before their thyroids burn out. This is actually part

of the disease itself and this is hyperthyroidism (temporary) called

Hashimoto's thyrotoxicosis, but it is NOT graves and the antibodies

are not the same. There is also a rare type of hyperthyroidism that

is actually genetic. This too is not to be confused with Graves.

Hyperthyroidism can also be caused by an excess of iodine in some

people, also not Graves.

<Some people enjoy the period of moderate hyperthyroidism

In my opinion, anyone making a statement like this has no business

dealing with anyone's thyroid EVER! For that person to be a doctor is

unconscienable! ONLY someone who has NEVER been hyperthyroid would

ever make a statement like this. Even mildly hyperthyroid patients

have severe damage being done to their bodies and just because they

may not suffer Thyroid Induced Physiological Autonomic Responses such

as so called " panic attacks " or pulse rates elevated into the

hundreds, rest assured their bones are de-calcifying from the

imbalance, and the antibodies are still attacking various parts of the

body including eyes, nervous system and the brain. Again, been there,

done that. So has my daughter. When she " enjoyed her period of

moderate (actually low) hyperthyroidism " which lasted only about 2

months, she sustained permanent heart damage and nervous system damage

even worse than my own caused many years ago when I ended up in severe

and dire straits with my thyroid which lasted nearly 20 years. The

damage to her skeletal structure and other organs is yet to be

determined. I would dare that doc to make a statement like that to

someone suffering from Thyroid Eye Disease. It's statements like this

that get people not only un-diagnosed, but mis-diagnosed and sometimes

even DEAD. Remember Shoman's site, while quite good for

hypothyroidism, is for hypothyroidism, not Graves.

On one important point, I will agree with you with every cell of my

being- RAI is a foolish toy used by ignorant docs as a " quick fix " .

Too many people undergo the procedure being told it is not only

benign, but will simiply and quickly cure their problem. Since the

problem is the autoimmune disease, killing your thyroid does nothing

to eliminate the antibodies and in some people actually makes things

such as TED and Brain/neurologic conditions worse. I suggest that if

you are interested in Graves disease that you join the Graves Support

group on and walk a mile in our moccasins.

Thank you for the interesting reply.

E (Ellen in Missouri)

>

> >From: " Ellen " <ellen@...>

>

> >If you have autoimmune thyroid disease such as Graves, giving iodine

> >creates activity within the thyroid gland. This allows the antibodies

> >to destroy or damage/inflame more of the thyroid which is

> >contraindicated in most cases. Our disease is our immune system, not

> >our thyroids.

>

> Maybe yes, maybe no.

>

> Since you have thyroid antibodies, have you ever had your adrenal

antibodies

> tested?

>

> I ask that because I see antibodies as an endocrine problem. Not an

> " immune " problem. It has been shown that in some cases of

Hashimoto's, when

> given appropriate corticosteroids the thyroid antibodies go away.

Imagine

> that. Treat the adrenals and sometimes the thyroid antibodies go away.

>

> In some cases, given selenium and the antibodies go away.

>

> Lack of Vitamin C can look a lot like hyperthyroidism, I'm sure a

number of

> people have their thyroid's radiated due to vitamin C deficiency and

will

> never know.

>

> I think the trick is to finding what's really wrong with the immune

system.

>

> I've not read Brownstein so I don't know what he says about Grave's and

> iodine, maybe someone else does.

>

>

> Getting a handle on the autoimmune problems is the key

> >to going into a state of remission in autoimmune thyroid and can take

> >years.

>

> Yes, and do the doctors even really attempt to isolate whether the

endocrine

> system is in balance? Of course not, if they did, your adrenals

would have

> been tested for cortisol as well as for antibody levels.

>

> Because I like Ray Peat, here's what he said about Grave's. I don't

know

> how he talks about patients as I know he's a biochemist, don't think

he's an

> MD. I ***to hilight what I saw as main points. He thinks people

generally

> get iodine, but no one knows everything.

>

>

> http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/ray-peat.htm

> Shomon: You have reported that pregnenolone can be helpful for

Graves'

> patients with exophthalmus. Can you explain further?

>

> Dr. Ray Peat: Graves' disease and exophthalmos can occur with

hypothyroidism

> or euthyroidism, as well as with hyperthyroidism. Pregnenolone

regulates

> brain chemistry in a way that prevents excessive production of ACTH and

> cortisol, and it helps to stabilize mitochondrial metabolism. It

apparently

> acts directly on a variety of tissues to reduce their retention of

water. In

> the last several years,

> ***all of the people I have seen who had been diagnosed as

" hyperthyroid "

> have actually been hypothyroid, and benefitted from increasing their

thyroid

> function; some of these people had also been told that they had Graves'

> disease. ****

>

> Shomon: What are your thoughts for Graves' disease/hyperthyroidism

> patients? Should they move ahead quickly to get radioactive iodine

> treatment, or are there natural things they might be able to try to

> temporarily - or even permanently - get a remission?

>

> Dr. Ray Peat:

> ****Occasionally, a person with a goiter will temporarily become

> hyperthyroid as the gland releases its colloid stores in a corrective

> process.****

> Some people enjoy the period of moderate hyperthyroidism, but if

they find

> it uncomfortable or inconvenient, they can usually control it just

by eating

> plenty of liver, and maybe some cole slaw or raw cabbage juice.

Propranolol

> will slow a rapid heart. The effects of a thyroid inhibitor, PTU,

> propylthiouracil, have been compared to those of thyroidectomy and

> radioactive iodine. The results of the chemical treatment are better

for the

> patient, but not nearly so profitable for the physician.

>

> Besides a few people who were experiencing the unloading of a

goiter, and

> one man from the mountains of Mexico who became hypermetabolic when

he moved

> to Japan (probably from the sudden increase of iodine in his diet,

and maybe

> from a smaller amount of meat in his diet),

> ***all of the people I have seen in recent decades who were called

> " hyperthyroid " were not.****

> None of the people I have talked to after they had radioiodine

treatment

> were properly studied to determine the nature of their condition.

> Radioiodine is a foolish medical toy, as far as I can see, and is

never a

> proper treatment.

> *******************************************

>

> Skipper

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> >

> > > I don't know these answers but read over and over that hypers and

> >Graves (low TSH) need iodine. And my TSH has always been hyper/low

> >with severe hypo symptoms.

> > > Gracia

> > >

> > >

> > > Skipper, you say that with iodine deficiency, less TSH is

> >secreted. Could you explain this in more detail?

> > >

> > > I thought that with more iodine, there would be more thyroid

> >hormones. When thyroid hormones are high, TSH goes down.

> > >

> > > With low iodine, I would expect low levels of thyroid hormone and

> >high levels of TSH.

> > >

> > > Why exactly would low iodine cause low TSH? When would it result

> >in high TSH and when would it result in low TSH?

> > >

> > > Thanks.

> > >

> > > Zoe

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > When deficient in iodine, less TSH will be secreted, but the

> >thyroid will be

> > > far more sensitive to it. With increased iodine, TSH will

go up.

> > >

> > > So, I would say it's likely in some cases when TSH is low, it's

> >because

> > > iodine is, not because the patient is fine.

> > >

> > > The concept is from thyroidmanager.org, where they talk about

> >how TSH is not

> > > elevated in areas of endemic goiter, but the low iodine causes

> >low TSH, but

> > > the thyroid is far more sensitive to the TSH it receives.

> > >

> > > Skipper

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

> > > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > > Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.6/568 - Release Date:

> >12/4/2006

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> > > No virus found in this outgoing message.

> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

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> >12/4/2006

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >Iodine

[Guest guest]

This is true- a very high dose of iodine puts the thyroid into " auto

braking " system and shuts it off. Problem is with Graves, the

autoimmune issues and antibodies very often won't let the thyroid turn

back on again. What I'd like to know is, knowing this, why don't they

use this method instead of giving us Chenobyl dust if they're so set

on destroying our thyroids??

E

>

> >From: " Gracia " <circe@...>

> >Reply-iodine

> ><iodine >

> >Subject: Re: Re: iodine and TSH - Skipper

> >Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 20:37:58 -0500

> >

> >I have been trying to find opposing info that advocates iodine for

hyper

> >T/Graves. I think I have it here somewhere from a guy who

presented at

> >Weston A Price conference, but I just cannot find it. Flechas

recommends

> >treating autoimmunity with methylation.

> >Gracia

>

>

> Excerpts from

> The Safe and Effective Implementation of Orthoiodosupplementation In

Medical

> Practice

> by Guy E. Abraham, MD

>

> >

> http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-05/IOD_05.html

> Iodine was used in the treatment of toxic goiter as early as 1840 by

Von

> Basedow 53 and in 1854 by Stokes.54 In 1863, Trousseau inadvertently

used

> tincture of iodine successfully in a patient with exophthalmic

goiter.55 " In

> the course of October, 1863, I was consulted by a young married

lady, who

> habitually resides in Paris. She was suffering from subacute

exophthalmic

> goiter... I still found her heart beat at the rate of 140 to 150

times in

> the minute... I wished to administer at the same time tincture of

digitalis,

> but preoccupied with the idea that there would be some danger in giving

> iodin, I wrote iodin instead of digitalis, so that the patient took

from 15

> to 20 drops of tincture of iodin a day for a fortnight. (For the

reader's

> information, " tincture of iodin " is a 10% solution of iodine in 95%

ethanol.

> The daily amount ingested was 75-100 mg). When she than came back to

me her

> pulse was only 90. I found out my mistake, and I substituted

tincture of

> digitalis for that of iodin, but, after another fortnight, the pulse

had

> again gone up to 150, so that I at once returned to the iodin. "

Trousseau

> had the distinction of performing the first double-blind study of

iodine in

> a cohort of one patient with Graves' disease. He also achieved

remission of

> Graves' disease with prolonged administration of potassium iodide.56

>

> A cursory review of the literature suggests that the use of Lugol

solution

> in Graves' disease, the preferred approach by thyroidologists of

that time,

> resulted in a higher success rate with fewer complications than the

use of

> iodine and iodide alone. 45,57,60-66 The daily amount of Lugol

solution used

> in Graves' disease ranged from one drop (6.25 mg) to 30 drops (180

mg). A

> complete nutritional program in our experience improved further the

response

> to orthoiodosupplementation in Graves' disease and other thyroid

disorders.

>

> Published studies on the safe and effective use of Lugol solution in

Graves'

> disease mysteriously disappeared during the 1940s and afterward,

concurrent

> with the appearance of iodophobic publications and the promotion of

> goitrogens as an alternative to Lugol solution in the management of

Graves'

> disease.

>

> _________________________________________________________________

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>

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi Skipper-

>

> I have not

> seen a single person on that board who started out with 's and

> went the other direction.

I correspond with a person that has 's. Here's something she

sent me once -

" If you have been diagnosed with adrenal insufficiency, and are on

replacement steroids, accelerated pulse is the sign of mild

insufficiency which will lead to crisis if not corrected. VERY

important to monitor pulse if we have addison's disease. Since I had

this first, before ever any thyroid issues, I was able to sort that

out before the T3 stuff. "

************

I don't have 's. I simply have low adrenals.

However, she helped me understand my problems quite a lot. Including

why my pulse had always been a bit high, as I suspect I had adrenal

insufficiency most of my life. Yet since I haven't lost 90 percent of

my adrenal cortex, I don't have 's.

I also wrote her once when I tried to substitute Prednisone for

Cortef, because it was so much cheaper. She explained to me it was

quite a stupid thing to do as Pred is a synthetic analog (garbage) and

Cortef or generic hydrocortisone are bio-identical to your own

cortisol. It took me a few months to feel better after that

stupidity. Pred and HC are not the same.

It has to be tough for thyroid patients with 's, because they

have to balance their meds. Too much Armour can accelerate one's

pulse rate, but so can too little cortisol.

You didn't say that your daughter actually has 's, so hopefully

she doesn't.

The adrenals and thyroid are connected. Low adrenals will cause low

thyroid long before someone would be diagnosed with 's. Low

thyroid will cause low adrenals, as Langer reported in " Solved the

Riddle of Illness " usually when one goes on Armour, the cortisol

levels increase.

You need balance between the two.

Maybe the people you refer to had thyroid issues first, because

doctors don't recognize adrenal insufficiency. Maybe if they were

treated right away for adrenal insufficiency, maybe it wouldn't have

progressed to 's.

There might also be an infection component to it. Some people know

they became hypo after an infection, TB/AIDS are known causes of

's. Maybe if antibiotics (or even iodine) were used some of

these people would get better. There are stealth infections doctors

have difficulty finding, like lymes and mycoplasma. Maybe if they

were adequately tested for infection in some cases, they would have

been spared these problems.

In the case of the person who writes to me, she may be right and the

thyroid problem could be new. But,the thing is the two conditions are

so interrelated. If you have low BP, is it from low adrenals or low

thyroid? It could be either. Same with low body temp, accelerated

heart rate and many other problems.

It doesn't help that hypothyroidism is contradictory in that it can

cause hypertension or hypotension, high pulse rate or slow pulse rate

by different mechanisms.

I think iodine helps my adrenals considerably. Since other than

Prednisone, the biggest known cause of 's has been TB, and

maybe AIDS, it wouldn't surprise me to find that iodine helps fight

infections that might cause 's. Large dose of Vitamin C

probably would too. Since mercury accumulates in the adrenals, both

probably also helps detox from that, and thus help the adrenals in

that manner.

>The antibodies go away when given

> corticosteroids because the antibodies are reacting to the

> inflammatory cells of the thyroid

> AS LONG AS THE PERSON IS RECEIVING THE CORTICOSTEROIDS.

I wish I would have saved the article to my hard drive.

I read an article once by a medical college. They were summarizing an

article in an endocrinology magazine. The endo magazine talked about

someone coming to the ER with historically high Hashimoto's titers,

and he came in for adrenal crises.

They treated him with corticosteroids. When he stopped treatment, he

was fine. His adrenal crises was over, he didn't have 's, and

his Hashimoto's antibodies were gone, and didn't come back.

As I said, I wish I'd saved the article because then I might know the

dosage and type of corticosteroids, as well as how long afterward they

did follow ups to check on his conditions. They gave the impression

they never came back. So, whether there was long term follow up

because the antibodies went away or not, or they only checked a few

weeks of months later, I don't know.

Skipper

[Guest guest]

> usually when one goes on Armour, the cortisol levels increase.

I have worked with or observed a huge number of thyroid patients, and

so far, we have never seen anyone's AI improve enough to prevent them

from needing cortisol. Theoretically, it would appear that optimizing

one's thyroid would improve the sluggish adrenals. But...you can't

even optimize your thyroid is you don't produce enough cortisol to get

the thyroid hormones to the cells.

Janie