Re: Iodoral and progesterone/troll alert

[Guest guest]

I recognize the material quoted below from someone who was asked to leave this email group and other email groups. I would hate to think he is trying to inveigle his way back.

No disrespect to Skipper but the quoted "doctor" is notorious for using intermediaries to carry his so-called authoritative message. --L

In a message dated 10/3/2006 4:11:34 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, lsb149@... writes: [from "dr"]

Clarification re Iodoral & P, just so no confusion.I've been saying I find Iodoral raises P but notnecessarily from large doses, unless someoneconsiders all Iodoral high dose (which would bethe conventional view).Three representative examples.

[Guest guest]

Skipper writes:<< I don't really know who he is, but the point is whether or not that turns out to be true. If it turns out that those females on iodoral get tested for progesterone and it is high, then he has a valid point.>>

Skipper, as patients in hormone groups, from our experience in testing w/ both saliva and serum re progesterone, the results are inaccurate because P stores in the tissues where it cannot be measured. In rodents they have found P in the organs and not in the blood. This "doctor" is fundamentally wedded to his inaccurate tests.

<<I'm kind of hoping some people are getting labs so they can share problems like elevated progesterone, or thyroid tests that show that when someone reduced or went off their meds that with iodine the TSH is around 1.5 which is the median TSH of non-thyroidal patients in large studies, and that their T4 and T3 levels are still decent.>>

Skipper, I agree, all labs are worth noting of course, but it is quite another thing to create a causal explanation from them. It's way to easy to draw conclusions and the next step down that path would be adjusting dosage as if the labs reflected a truth.

L

[Guest guest]

>From: Lynne234923@...

>I recognize the material quoted below from someone who was asked to leave

>this email group and other email groups. I would hate to think he is

>trying to

>inveigle his way back.

>

>No disrespect to Skipper but the quoted " doctor " is notorious for using

>intermediaries to carry his so-called authoritative message. --L

That may be true. However, and I don't really know who he is, but the point

is whether or not that turns out to be true. If it turns out that those

females on iodoral get tested for progesterone and it is high, then he has a

valid point.

Sometimes we do things without labs, sometimes because we lose our insurance

or can't afford the tests, so the experience of those of us who do get labs

in these areas is quite relevant. I'm kind of hoping some people are

getting labs so they can share problems like elevated progesterone, or

thyroid tests that show that when someone reduced or went off their meds

that with iodine the TSH is around 1.5 which is the median TSH of

non-thyroidal patients in large studies, and that their T4 and T3 levels are

still decent.

Skippper

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[Guest guest]

I can tell you it is not true for me. I was low in progesterone before Iodoral and I am low now. I supplement with BHRT and take 50 mgs of Iodoral. I have done this since Mid March.

That may be true. However, and I don't really know who he is, but the point is whether or not that turns out to be true. If it turns out that those females on iodoral get tested for progesterone and it is high, then he has a valid point.Messages in this topic (2) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic

..

[Guest guest]

>

> In other words, some in trouble at dose as low

> as one. Others only in trouble at dose of 4/day.

>

> There is no easy way to predict who will respond

> in what way.

>

> So I go up slowly. Start at 1/2. Go up slowly by

> 1/2 or 1 per step.

>

> Test thyroid by serum & saliva at each step.

>

-------> Oh yes I also recognize this person. He/she (person is a he

but goes by both identities in groups) has sent me private emails. He

has a very distinct way of putting things that ALWAYS includes testing

rather it's relevant or not. I never can really make heads nor tails

out what he's saying....except I darn well better test by a " doctor " .

He's been banned from a few groups as Lynne mentioned.

BTW...I'm NOT showing any signs of too much progesterone and I know

those signs well. I feel like PMS on steriods when my progesterone is

too high and as I said my period started this time with nary a sign of

anything bad. I've had clear skin, loads of energy, good sleep,

postive outlook. Iodine does not raise my progesterone levels. It

might make it more available and I'm fairly sure it's blocking too

much of my estrogen. But that's a really different problem then

progesterone going sky high.

Lynn

[Guest guest]

>From: " ladybugsandbees " <ladybugsandbees@...>

>I can tell you it is not true for me. I was low in progesterone before

>Iodoral and I am low now. I supplement with BHRT and take 50 mgs of

>Iodoral. I have done this since Mid March.

>

Do you get blood tests for progesterone, or saliva tests?

Is the BHRT progesterone only, or estrogen also. Some need both. Of

course, you can get bio-identical progesterone over the counter, the only

bio-identical estrogen I know is compounded Triest.

If you have the time and inclination to ask him next visit, I am curious if

he thinks PBB might have been the reason he took so long to be iodine

sufficient, and if other Michigan people are likely to be the same way.

Skipper

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[Guest guest]

>From: Lynne234923@...

>Skipper, as patients in hormone groups, from our experience in testing w/

>both saliva and serum re progesterone, the results are inaccurate because

>P

>stores in the tissues where it cannot be measured. In rodents they have

>found P

>in the organs and not in the blood. This " doctor " is fundamentally wedded

>to his inaccurate tests.

Dr. Lee who wrote books on it thought the saliva tests were accurate. He

learned from Ray Peat, I never heard what Peat thought about the labs.

So, if it's stored in the tissues, what does that mean? Is it available for

the body to use as it's needed, or is it stuck in the tissues and not

available? Does the iodine release the P and for a period of time it's

available, or is it still unavailable at this time and so the P showing up

as high is really a false reading?

>Skipper, I agree, all labs are worth noting of course, but it is quite

>another thing to create a causal explanation from them. It's way to easy

>to draw

>conclusions and the next step down that path would be adjusting dosage as

>if

>the labs reflected a truth.

My thyroid doc said diagnosis is 85% history, 10% clinical examination, and

5% labwork. And before he talks to you, he takes 5 -8 vials of blood

depending on age and sex.

They can tell you something. But I agree, poor decisions are frequently

made from them.

As I recall from reading Lee, taking too much progesterone will actually

create the same symptoms as you had when not taking any at all. Of course,

whether that's relevant or not to iodine increasing the level is another

question.

Skipper

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[Guest guest]

Dr. Brownstein asked if I had sore breasts from his increase in progesterone

(my prescription). I told him " No " so that must mean that is a symptom of

it. Adding more Progesterone is supposed to shorten the time between cycles

and length of cycles. I don't know because I have only had a period 2 times

in the 7 mos I have taken it.

==================================================================

> As I recall from reading Lee, taking too much progesterone will actually

> create the same symptoms as you had when not taking any at all. Of

> course,

> whether that's relevant or not to iodine increasing the level is another

> question.

>

> Skipper

[Guest guest]

There was a study done showing that massive, excessive

amounts of Progesterone taken for long periods of time

can result in the Progesterone receptors

" down-regulating " the amount of Progesterone they will

accept, and that at times when this happened, Estrogen

was able to come in and take over the receptors,

resulting in the symptoms of Estrogen dominance.

But this has been so rarely seen in actual patient

cases that those studies are basically beginning to be

ignored now by many. It's got to be massive amounts of

Progesterone for such a long period of time, even more

than we would make by the third trimester of pregnancy

when it's up to 400 mg. per day (or was it 800 mg.??

can't remember now).

Other than that there haven't been any studies that

show any adverse affects from taking high levels of

progesterone. Nor have there been any adverse affects

seen in pregnant women who go for almost 9 months with

elevated levels of Progesterone, take a three month

break and then get pregnant and do it all over again,

over and over.

This is one reason it was thought to be ok as long as

non pregnant women take a break from it every so

often, but now some are not even holding that this is

necessary.

On the other hand, Progesterone study has really taken

a back seat to Estrogen study for such a long time,

who knows what information will come out in the

future?

--- Skipper Beers <lsb149@...> wrote:

> >From: Lynne234923@...

>

>

> >Skipper, as patients in hormone groups, from our

> experience in testing w/

> >both saliva and serum re progesterone, the results

> are inaccurate because

> >P

> >stores in the tissues where it cannot be measured.

> In rodents they have

> >found P

> >in the organs and not in the blood. This " doctor "

> is fundamentally wedded

> >to his inaccurate tests.

>

> Dr. Lee who wrote books on it thought the saliva

> tests were accurate. He

> learned from Ray Peat, I never heard what Peat

> thought about the labs.

>

> So, if it's stored in the tissues, what does that

> mean? Is it available for

> the body to use as it's needed, or is it stuck in

> the tissues and not

> available? Does the iodine release the P and for a

> period of time it's

> available, or is it still unavailable at this time

> and so the P showing up

> as high is really a false reading?

>

>

> >Skipper, I agree, all labs are worth noting of

> course, but it is quite

> >another thing to create a causal explanation from

> them. It's way to easy

> >to draw

> >conclusions and the next step down that path would

> be adjusting dosage as

> >if

> >the labs reflected a truth.

>

> My thyroid doc said diagnosis is 85% history, 10%

> clinical examination, and

> 5% labwork. And before he talks to you, he takes 5

> -8 vials of blood

> depending on age and sex.

>

> They can tell you something. But I agree, poor

> decisions are frequently

> made from them.

>

> As I recall from reading Lee, taking too much

> progesterone will actually

> create the same symptoms as you had when not taking

> any at all. Of course,

> whether that's relevant or not to iodine increasing

> the level is another

> question.

>

> Skipper

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

>the only bioidentical estrogen I would ever take is estradiol. Tri/biest is a waste of time.

Gracia

Is the BHRT progesterone only, or estrogen also. Some need both. Of course, you can get bio-identical progesterone over the counter, the only bio-identical estrogen I know is compounded Triest.If you have the time and inclination to ask him next visit, I am curious if he thinks PBB might have been the reason he took so long to be iodine sufficient, and if other Michigan people are likely to be the same way.Skipper__________________________________________________________Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows Live Spaces http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features

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[Guest guest]

If you want to get a lab test without the cost of

seeing a doctor you can order just about anything on

the internet. I pay $29 for a CBC to keep a watch on

my Leukemia.

Just Google " economical blood tests " . Several places

will order them through your local lab for you.

[Guest guest]

yeah I recognize this person too, and he is NOT a doctor. No one has been able to determine what his credentials are, but he advises people. Recently he posted that ppl are overdosing on Iodoral! He only recommends up to 37.5mg Iodoral per day, not 50! I do best on 50mg.

Gracia

I recognize the material quoted below from someone who was asked to leave this email group and other email groups. I would hate to think he is trying to inveigle his way back.

No disrespect to Skipper but the quoted "doctor" is notorious for using intermediaries to carry his so-called authoritative message. --L

In a message dated 10/3/2006 4:11:34 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, lsb149hotmail writes: [from "dr"]

Clarification re Iodoral & P, just so no confusion.I've been saying I find Iodoral raises P but notnecessarily from large doses, unless someoneconsiders all Iodoral high dose (which would bethe conventional view).Three representative examples.

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