Re: Re: iodine and TSH - Skipper

[Guest guest]

>From: " Ellen " <ellen@...>

>If you have autoimmune thyroid disease such as Graves, giving iodine

>creates activity within the thyroid gland. This allows the antibodies

>to destroy or damage/inflame more of the thyroid which is

>contraindicated in most cases. Our disease is our immune system, not

>our thyroids.

Maybe yes, maybe no.

Since you have thyroid antibodies, have you ever had your adrenal antibodies

tested?

I ask that because I see antibodies as an endocrine problem. Not an

" immune " problem. It has been shown that in some cases of Hashimoto's, when

given appropriate corticosteroids the thyroid antibodies go away. Imagine

that. Treat the adrenals and sometimes the thyroid antibodies go away.

In some cases, given selenium and the antibodies go away.

Lack of Vitamin C can look a lot like hyperthyroidism, I'm sure a number of

people have their thyroid's radiated due to vitamin C deficiency and will

never know.

I think the trick is to finding what's really wrong with the immune system.

I've not read Brownstein so I don't know what he says about Grave's and

iodine, maybe someone else does.

Getting a handle on the autoimmune problems is the key

>to going into a state of remission in autoimmune thyroid and can take

>years.

Yes, and do the doctors even really attempt to isolate whether the endocrine

system is in balance? Of course not, if they did, your adrenals would have

been tested for cortisol as well as for antibody levels.

Because I like Ray Peat, here's what he said about Grave's. I don't know

how he talks about patients as I know he's a biochemist, don't think he's an

MD. I ***to hilight what I saw as main points. He thinks people generally

get iodine, but no one knows everything.

http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/ray-peat.htm

Shomon: You have reported that pregnenolone can be helpful for Graves'

patients with exophthalmus. Can you explain further?

Dr. Ray Peat: Graves' disease and exophthalmos can occur with hypothyroidism

or euthyroidism, as well as with hyperthyroidism. Pregnenolone regulates

brain chemistry in a way that prevents excessive production of ACTH and

cortisol, and it helps to stabilize mitochondrial metabolism. It apparently

acts directly on a variety of tissues to reduce their retention of water. In

the last several years,

***all of the people I have seen who had been diagnosed as " hyperthyroid "

have actually been hypothyroid, and benefitted from increasing their thyroid

function; some of these people had also been told that they had Graves'

disease. ****

Shomon: What are your thoughts for Graves' disease/hyperthyroidism

patients? Should they move ahead quickly to get radioactive iodine

treatment, or are there natural things they might be able to try to

temporarily - or even permanently - get a remission?

Dr. Ray Peat:

****Occasionally, a person with a goiter will temporarily become

hyperthyroid as the gland releases its colloid stores in a corrective

process.****

Some people enjoy the period of moderate hyperthyroidism, but if they find

it uncomfortable or inconvenient, they can usually control it just by eating

plenty of liver, and maybe some cole slaw or raw cabbage juice. Propranolol

will slow a rapid heart. The effects of a thyroid inhibitor, PTU,

propylthiouracil, have been compared to those of thyroidectomy and

radioactive iodine. The results of the chemical treatment are better for the

patient, but not nearly so profitable for the physician.

Besides a few people who were experiencing the unloading of a goiter, and

one man from the mountains of Mexico who became hypermetabolic when he moved

to Japan (probably from the sudden increase of iodine in his diet, and maybe

from a smaller amount of meat in his diet),

***all of the people I have seen in recent decades who were called

" hyperthyroid " were not.****

None of the people I have talked to after they had radioiodine treatment

were properly studied to determine the nature of their condition.

Radioiodine is a foolish medical toy, as far as I can see, and is never a

proper treatment.

*******************************************

Skipper

>

>

> > I don't know these answers but read over and over that hypers and

>Graves (low TSH) need iodine. And my TSH has always been hyper/low

>with severe hypo symptoms.

> > Gracia

> >

> >

> > Skipper, you say that with iodine deficiency, less TSH is

>secreted. Could you explain this in more detail?

> >

> > I thought that with more iodine, there would be more thyroid

>hormones. When thyroid hormones are high, TSH goes down.

> >

> > With low iodine, I would expect low levels of thyroid hormone and

>high levels of TSH.

> >

> > Why exactly would low iodine cause low TSH? When would it result

>in high TSH and when would it result in low TSH?

> >

> > Thanks.

> >

> > Zoe

> >

> >

> >

> > When deficient in iodine, less TSH will be secreted, but the

>thyroid will be

> > far more sensitive to it. With increased iodine, TSH will go up.

> >

> > So, I would say it's likely in some cases when TSH is low, it's

>because

> > iodine is, not because the patient is fine.

> >

> > The concept is from thyroidmanager.org, where they talk about

>how TSH is not

> > elevated in areas of endemic goiter, but the low iodine causes

>low TSH, but

> > the thyroid is far more sensitive to the TSH it receives.

> >

> > Skipper

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> >

> >

> > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.6/568 - Release Date:

>12/4/2006

> >

> > No virus found in this outgoing message.

> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.6/568 - Release Date:

>12/4/2006

> >

>

>

>

>

>Iodine

[Guest guest]

I have been trying to find opposing info that advocates iodine for hyper T/Graves. I think I have it here somewhere from a guy who presented at Weston A Price conference, but I just cannot find it. Flechas recommends treating autoimmunity with methylation.

Gracia

From Dr. Rind:

.. He said that iodine is good for those with hypoT, but it "hurts" those with hyperT and also "hurts" those with weak adrenals. He didn't elaborate on that. I think it would be great if someone from the group wanted to email him to get an explanation for this. 5. Regarding iodine and other halogens: He said that iodine flushes out other halogens like fluoride and bromide. He said that when these other halogens are flushed out, that this will reduce antibodies (presumably Hashimotos and Graves) - because after this flushing there are less things in the body that the body does not recognize.

From Flechas

In less than 1% of all the patients treated with I, have we seen an allergic reaction. More often than not, the allergic reaction is hives. After treating over 1,000 patients with iodine, I have at no time seen the Wolff-Chaikoff Effect.

If you have autoimmune thyroid disease such as Graves, giving iodinecreates activity within the thyroid gland. This allows the antibodiesto destroy or damage/inflame more of the thyroid which iscontraindicated in most cases. Our disease is our immune system, notour thyroids. Getting a handle on the autoimmune problems is the keyto going into a state of remission in autoimmune thyroid and can takeyears. many use a system of Block and Replace where the body'sthyroid reaction to iodine itself is blocked by ATD's and thenreplacement therapy is given until the attack on the thyroid is gone,then iodine is okay to give unless the patient again goes into anautoimmune problem. I believe that during Block and Replace, iodinecan be given as the ATD's block the conversion/useage of it in thethyroid, (constant antibody testing is necessary) but I don't knowthis for a fact and more research by someone here should be done firston that aspect. E (Ellen in Missouri)

..

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.6/568 - Release Date: 12/4/2006

No virus found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.6/568 - Release Date: 12/4/2006

[Guest guest]

>From: " Gracia " <circe@...>

>Reply-iodine

><iodine >

>Subject: Re: Re: iodine and TSH - Skipper

>Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 20:37:58 -0500

>

>I have been trying to find opposing info that advocates iodine for hyper

>T/Graves. I think I have it here somewhere from a guy who presented at

>Weston A Price conference, but I just cannot find it. Flechas recommends

>treating autoimmunity with methylation.

>Gracia

Excerpts from

The Safe and Effective Implementation of Orthoiodosupplementation In Medical

Practice

by Guy E. Abraham, MD

>

http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-05/IOD_05.html

Iodine was used in the treatment of toxic goiter as early as 1840 by Von

Basedow 53 and in 1854 by Stokes.54 In 1863, Trousseau inadvertently used

tincture of iodine successfully in a patient with exophthalmic goiter.55 " In

the course of October, 1863, I was consulted by a young married lady, who

habitually resides in Paris. She was suffering from subacute exophthalmic

goiter... I still found her heart beat at the rate of 140 to 150 times in

the minute... I wished to administer at the same time tincture of digitalis,

but preoccupied with the idea that there would be some danger in giving

iodin, I wrote iodin instead of digitalis, so that the patient took from 15

to 20 drops of tincture of iodin a day for a fortnight. (For the reader's

information, " tincture of iodin " is a 10% solution of iodine in 95% ethanol.

The daily amount ingested was 75-100 mg). When she than came back to me her

pulse was only 90. I found out my mistake, and I substituted tincture of

digitalis for that of iodin, but, after another fortnight, the pulse had

again gone up to 150, so that I at once returned to the iodin. " Trousseau

had the distinction of performing the first double-blind study of iodine in

a cohort of one patient with Graves' disease. He also achieved remission of

Graves' disease with prolonged administration of potassium iodide.56

A cursory review of the literature suggests that the use of Lugol solution

in Graves' disease, the preferred approach by thyroidologists of that time,

resulted in a higher success rate with fewer complications than the use of

iodine and iodide alone. 45,57,60-66 The daily amount of Lugol solution used

in Graves' disease ranged from one drop (6.25 mg) to 30 drops (180 mg). A

complete nutritional program in our experience improved further the response

to orthoiodosupplementation in Graves' disease and other thyroid disorders.

Published studies on the safe and effective use of Lugol solution in Graves'

disease mysteriously disappeared during the 1940s and afterward, concurrent

with the appearance of iodophobic publications and the promotion of

goitrogens as an alternative to Lugol solution in the management of Graves'

disease.

_________________________________________________________________

All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC.  Get a free 90-day trial!

http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000002msn/direct/01/?href=http://clk.atd\

mt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.windowsonecare.co\

m/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail

[Guest guest]

>From: " Ellen " <ellen@...>

>This is true- a very high dose of iodine puts the thyroid into " auto

>braking " system and shuts it off. Problem is with Graves, the

>autoimmune issues and antibodies very often won't let the thyroid turn

>back on again.

You have Graves, have tried iodine, and this is what happened?

What I'd like to know is, knowing this, why don't they

>use this method instead of giving us Chenobyl dust if they're so set

>on destroying our thyroids??

Why do they -

*Give us fluoridated water?

*Put mercury in the teeth by the brain?

*Give epidurals during childbirth as if they were risk free? It can

cripple.

http://www.bmj.com/uknews/news20051024.shtml#2

" In a new report, gleaned from the database of the Cochrane Review, it was

found that whilst epidurals relieve the pain of childbirth more effectively

than other painkillers, it in fact raises the risk of needing assistance

with the birth by 40 per cent. "

Why did they radiate healthy thymus glands in infants in the early 1960s?

Why did they lie about the safety of Vioxx?

Why has the government spent billions on a flu remedy that its product

literature says it'll help you recover 1.3 days sooner, and is known to have

side effects? (Rumsfeld's company has the patent, since both democrats and

republicans seem to want to buy it, one wonders how it can be politically

motivated to enrich Rumsfeld, unless both parties have the same puppet

masters.)

Why did doctors say in commercials and magazines in the 50s that smoking is

good for you?

Did Lucille Ball actually believe it when she said it was good for us? (She

may have, wasnt' a doctor, why wouldn't you believe them?)

Why did they report they were going to explode atomic bombs in the early

60s, and think it was a good thing they were giving people a " light show " ,

and let them know not to worry.

Information is more available than it used to be. But, people were pretty

smart 100 years ago, it's not like we've evolved from a chimpanzee-like

state to a god-like state in recorded history. 100 years ago, if they built

a house, they built it to make use of breezes in the summer time, today they

build it as if air conditioning were free. Just like with cars, My1969

Coronet had a floor vent that felt an awful lot like air conditioning. In

today's cars, you need air conditioning, even in MIchigan because they

forgot how to circulate outside air.

Doctors like to use the term " evidence based medicine " , yet they forget to

base what they say on evidence.

Where's the evidence that Synthyroid works better than Armour? There is not

likely to be any, because it's not true.

Where's the evidence that Prednisone worked better than Adrenal Cortical

Extract (outlawed) with fewer side effects? There is none. Doctors or drug

companies decided.

The medical profession likes us to believe what they say, even if it's not

true. My mother's generation had a lot of FAITH in them. They would still

like us to have that faith, but we don't any more. Many doctors have

difficulty dealing with this fall from grace. Which is why if a parent and

child want alternate therapies for cancer, they are likely to see the

authorities jump in, take them to court and make them get the chemotherapy

the doctor claims they need. They'll keep us hostage even at gunpoint to

their system if they can.

Skipper

_________________________________________________________________

Visit MSN Holiday Challenge for your chance to win up to $50,000 in Holiday

cash!

http://www.msnholidaychallenge.com/default.aspx?ocid=tagline & locale=en-us

[Guest guest]

>From: " Ellen " <ellen@...>

>Hi Skipper-

>

>Let me first say that I am here because my daughter has Hashi's and I

>am looking for ways to help her. This board has led me to look at

>many different and interesting prospects that have influenced how we

>have thought and acted on her condition. It has also prompted me to

>tell others about the possibilities of Iodine supplementation to help

>their medical conditions and bodies.

>

>You said : do the doctors even really attempt to isolate whether the

>endocrine

> > system is in balance? Of course not, if they did, your adrenals

>would have

> > been tested for cortisol as well as for antibody levels.

> >

>

>Be careful of blanket answers for any disease or condition...

>

>

>Antibodies to my adrenal system were not tested, because my adrenal

>system tested out fine no less than 4 times.

My adrenal system " tested out fine " too. I asked for hydrocortisone

anyway, and my doctor told me it was time to find another doctor.

I did. Within three months of going on 5 mg of hydrocortisone (cortisol) 4

times a day, chest pain of 10+ years was gone, the pain in my hip my doctor

had said was rheumatoid was gone, and so was an issue with frequent

urination I'd had for over 10 years. Yet, my adrenals had been " fine. "

Testing without clinical accumen (i.e. judgment independent of lab work) is

worthless.

It is usually adrenal

>failure that comes after the body is exhausted from thyroid

>dysfunction, not the other way around.

Since adequate levels of cortisol are necessary for T4 to T3 conversion, why

would the thyroid not be affected by high or low adrenals? Low cortisol

makes it difficult to convert T4 to T3, and T4 that should be turning into

T3 simply gets excreted. High cortisol causes issues with producing

inactive rT3 instead of T3.

Maybe the thyroid dysfunction was caused by the adrenals in the first place,

which is why Durrant-Peatfield claimed if you treat the adrenals first,

sometimes the thyroid symptoms go away without thyroid meds.

If you doubt this fact I

>suggest the 's board where it is common to find thyroid

>patients eventually having adrenal failure months or years after their

>diagnosis.

There's a difference between 's, and low adrenals. In 's, the

adrenal gland is said to be 90 percent destroyed -

http://endocrine.niddk.nih.gov/pubs/addison/addison.htm

About 70 percent of reported cases of 's disease are caused by

autoimmune disorders, in which the immune system makes antibodies that

attack the body's own tissues or organs and slowly destroy them. Adrenal

insufficiency occurs when at least 90 percent of the adrenal cortex has been

destroyed.

****************************

I'm sure by the time adrenal destruction is reached, the thyroid is in bad

shape because the adrenal gland isn't working well. Don't tell me that if

the adrenal gland is only 80 percent destroyed, it works properly. It's

going to have an effect on the thyroid and other systems before this.

Infections, like TB, can also cause 's. Mercury accumulates in the

adrenals. Think a mercury laden adrenal gland is likely to be fully

functional?

(I participate on that board for my daughter) I have not

>seen a single person on that board who started out with 's and

>went the other direction. The antibodies go away when given

>corticosteroids because the antibodies are reacting to the

>inflammatory cells of the thyroid.

Taking enough cortisol to replace natural levels, is far different than

taking Prednisone. When taking physiological levels of cortisol, you're only

giving the patient enough to compensate for a low functioning adrenal gland.

If this makes the antibodies go away, the reason for them in the first

place is adrenal production is inadequate.

The steroid treatment will help

>the inflammation process and cell destruction as well as lower the

>immune system significantly (this is one of the many medical uses of

>corticosteroids)

Again, it's only large doses of Prednisone that disrupts the immune system.

Normal levels of cortisol actually are necessary for the proper functioning

of the immune system. Don't 's patients increase their

corticosteroids when they have infections?

It is true, large doses of Pred will kill your immune system. That doesn't

mean normal levels of cortisol will.

and many autoimmune problems will go away this way AS

>LONG AS THE PERSON IS RECEIVING THE CORTICOSTEROIDS. This is not a

>cure, but only a way to suppress the immune system and works this way

>for people whether they have autoimmune issues or not. That does not

>mean that it is appropriate to treat with Corticosteroids which can be

>dangerous. Raising the levels of these hormones in our bodies can be

>devastating and eventually cause all kinds of problems for almost

>universally all those who are on them who don't have low levels. Been

>there, done that.

Prednisone is bad. Many, many side effects. At more than 5 mg a day, it's

likely to suppress the HPA axis, and it is not bio-identical to cortisol.

It's a crippled hormone, which they cripple so they can patent.

Cortisol (hydrocortisone) is a different matter, when taken at doses that

are normal to your body. You don't want to take an amount that suppresses

the HPA axis. As long as it's not suppressed there's little risk of side

effects. And it helps with immunity.

>

>As to whether Vitamin C can look like hyperthyroidism, I cannot

>comment.

You may not be able to comment, but Langer, MD did in " Solved the

Riddle of Illness. " I don't think that opinion is unique to him, it's a

known condition. But why would doctors look for it as why would anyone be

deficient in Vitamin C?

>I have been studied for 8 years post RAI.

So, you're part of some control group or study that's actually looking at

the effects of RAI? I don't think Peat meant simply they had to be treated

by doctors after RAI, but he was pointing out the effects were not studied

well, because doctors didn't really care what happened, the autoimmune

problem was gone.

><Some people enjoy the period of moderate hyperthyroidism

>

>In my opinion, anyone making a statement like this has no business

>dealing with anyone's thyroid EVER!

Peat is a biochemist and nutrionalist, not a doctor. There are many doctors

that shouldn't be treating thyroids, from what you're saying that includes

the ones who gave you RAI.

I know when hyperthyroid,it is an unpleasant feeling.

Skipper

_________________________________________________________________

Get the latest Windows Live Messenger 8.1 Beta version. Join now.

http://ideas.live.com

[Guest guest]

>From: " " <truepatriot@...>

>Wow, this is heavy. And here I was taking iodine to help my

>hypothryoid (and concomitant high TSH). Should I reconsider?

Not because of what I'm saying. My point is that people can get goiters

without elevated TSH because in iodine defiency, the thyroid actually

becomes more sensitive to TSH.

I don't know how deficient in iodine one has to be before this happens. Just

because you're not that deficient,doesn't mean iodine won't be helpful to

you.

Skipper

>

>Thanks,

>-

>www.zenpawn.com/vegblog

>

>

>

> >

> > >From: " Zoe & " <ZOEA@...>

> >

> > >Skipper, you say that with iodine deficiency, less TSH is

>secreted. Could

> > >you explain this in more detail?

> >

> > I get it from two places in the thyroid manager chapter on goiter.

> >

> > The first portion says that in areas of endemic goiter, which is

>usually

> > caused by iodine deficiency, that TSH is not elevated. Thus low

>iodine (or

> > intake of goitrogens that interfere with iodine utilization) does

>not cause

> > TSH to elevate.

> >

> > The second part explains that when the thyroid is depleted of

>iodine, this

> > doesn't elevate TSH it simply makes the gland more sensitive to the

>little

> > bit of TSH it gets.

> >

> > http://thyroidmanager.org/Chapter20/20-frame.htm

> > " However, elevated TSH in endemic goiter is almost systematically

>found only

> > in conditions of extreme iodine deficiency but in only a small

>fraction of

> > subjects, usually the youngest . "

> >

> > http://thyroidmanager.org/Chapter5/5a-frame.htm

> > " The goitrogens, by blocking hormone synthesis, deplete the thyroid

>of

> > iodide; this reduction itself increases the sensitivity of the

>gland to TSH.

> > This sensitivity, in turn, further promotes goitrogenicity. "

> >

> > I think you mentioned on this site that when iodine intake

>increases, TSH

> > tends to go up. This would follow that concept. Low iodine is

>likely to

> > make the thyroid gland more sensitive to TSH without elevating TSH,

>but then

> > when iodine is added, for some reason the pituitary starts to put

>out more

> > TSH. So, that would imply the pituitary senses the low iodine, and

>reacts

> > to it in some way. Maybe the TSH increases because it knows it can

>produce

> > more thyroid hormone.

> >

> > I've always wondered if the hypothalamus / pituitary needed thyroid

>hormone

> > to operate properly, why in long standing cases would you expect

>the TSH to

> > be elevated? After all, if the thyroid isn't keeping up, isn't

>that a waste

> > of precious energy?

> >

> > >I thought that with more iodine, there would be more thyroid

>hormones.

> > >When thyroid hormones are high, TSH goes down.

> > >

> > >With low iodine, I would expect low levels of thyroid hormone and

>high

> > >levels of TSH.

> >

> > This may be true in some people. It says in areas of endemic

>goiter, a

> > small percentage of the children are the only ones likely to have

>elevated

> > TSH. So, very few will have elevated TSH.

> >

> > So, why would it be any different for the general population that

>has too

> > little iodine? I don't think it would be, which is another reason

>the TSH

> > doesn't really mean anything if it's " normal.' "

> >

> > Skipper

>

>

>

>Iodine

[Guest guest]

>From: " loboshe " <doodlebug1@...>

>

> > usually when one goes on Armour, the cortisol levels increase.

>

>I have worked with or observed a huge number of thyroid patients, and

>so far, we have never seen anyone's AI improve enough to prevent them

>from needing cortisol. Theoretically, it would appear that optimizing

>one's thyroid would improve the sluggish adrenals. But...you can't

>even optimize your thyroid is you don't produce enough cortisol to get

>the thyroid hormones to the cells.

The fact that cortisol levels increase with Armour was an observation of

Langer in " Solved the Riddle of Illness. " If he observed it, I assume it

really happens in some cases.

I don't think Langer gives cortisol to anyone, as I had a lot of

correspondence with one of his patients. That may have changed, of course.

He also was extremely cautious about how much Armour he gave out, and saw

patients monthly.

Also, your comment would imply you recognize everyone with adrenal

insufficiency, which is unlikely.

The old thought was that one reason hypothyroids got fat, is the increase in

cortisol caused by the slower clearance of it from the body. Which to me,

means it stayed artificially elevated, but may have helped some AI patients

when they got adequate levels of thyroid hormone.

Skipper

_________________________________________________________________

WIN up to $10,000 in cash or prizes – enter the Microsoft Office Live

Sweepstakes http://clk..atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0050001581mrt/direct/01/

[Guest guest]

> The fact that cortisol levels increase with Armour was an observation of

> Langer in " Solved the Riddle of Illness. " If he observed it, I assume it

> really happens in some cases.

>

> I don't think Langer gives cortisol to anyone, as I had a lot of

> correspondence with one of his patients. That may have changed, of

course.

> He also was extremely cautious about how much Armour he gave out, and saw

> patients monthly.

On the Natural Thyroid Hormones group, several people reported their

experience of being Langer patients. To summarize, they said he wrote a

good book but what he did in practice was not what he wrote in the book.

These patients never improved under his care, because he was always too

stingy with Armour doses and didn't provide suitable cortisol support. They

got better after they left him and self-medicated at higher doses. Their

experience makes me doubt his credibility.

Lynn

[Guest guest]

>From: " Lynn McGaha " <lmcgaha@...>

>On the Natural Thyroid Hormones group, several people reported their

>experience of being Langer patients. To summarize, they said he wrote a

>good book but what he did in practice was not what he wrote in the book.

>These patients never improved under his care, because he was always too

>stingy with Armour doses and didn't provide suitable cortisol support.

>They

>got better after they left him and self-medicated at higher doses. Their

>experience makes me doubt his credibility.

Yes, I didn't understand why he would treat a patient the way one described.

She had specific symptoms from his book. Yet, he wouldn't give her more

than 2 grains because he was worried about her pulse rate, which was around

80. He did push her in some nutrional areas, and he has a chapter on

nutrition in his book, plus he wrote a book on nutrition. She thought the

issue was mainly her pulse rate. But her pulse was around 80, and she

couldn't get more than 2 grains, and had to go back monthly. That concept

sounds kind of controlling.

These days, there does seem obsession about pulse rate down. Several

doctors like to keep it under 80. Ray Peat said the median pulse rate in a

healthy population is 85. I don't know his source, but hypos tend to be out

of shape, which is likely to give them a higher pulse rate. To some degree,

their adrenaline escalates which also speeds up their pulse rate. Many

drink caffeine so they can function. And never forget, a visit to a doctor

when one feels their life is threatened by lack of adequate treament is

likely to elevate both pulse and BP.

The thyroid isn't the only factor in pulse rate or BP on a given day.

I suspect part of the reason my family doctor of five years (female doctors

are not more compassionate than males, even when they act it, never think

that), told me to find another doctor for my family was she looked at my BP

reading before entering the room. I'd figured out my son's lack of appetite

and slowed growth were typical hypothyroid symptoms in childhood, and she

had refused to treat him, and I knew she wasn't going to give me the

cortisol I was going to ask for.

My BP is usually 120/80 but the nurse had to try the other arm because she

didn't believe the first reading. Maybe that's part of the reason docs take

BP, so they know how hostile a patient is before they enter a room.

Anyway, I've heard Arem is also stingy with thyroid medication, and

Durrant-Peatfield is less likely to suggest cortisol now that he can't

prescribe any more.

To some degree, it could depend on what's happening. If they went after D-P

in the UK, followed quickly after by Derry in Canada, it may be only a

matter of time before a prominent US doctor is attached in that manner.

Maybe they're waiting until health care gets so bad with inefficiency and

stupidity that we are forced to socilaize our medicine like those other

countries.

Skipper

_________________________________________________________________

Share your latest news with your friends with the Windows Live Spaces

friends module.

http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.\

live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create & wx_url=/friends.aspx & mk

[Guest guest]

yes I have heard this about Langer too.

Gracia

>> The fact that cortisol levels increase with Armour was an observation of

>> Langer in " Solved the Riddle of Illness. " If he observed it, I assume it

>> really happens in some cases.

>>

>> I don't think Langer gives cortisol to anyone, as I had a lot of

>> correspondence with one of his patients. That may have changed, of

> course.

>> He also was extremely cautious about how much Armour he gave out, and saw

>> patients monthly.

>

> On the Natural Thyroid Hormones group, several people reported their

> experience of being Langer patients. To summarize, they said he wrote a

> good book but what he did in practice was not what he wrote in the book.

> These patients never improved under his care, because he was always too

> stingy with Armour doses and didn't provide suitable cortisol support.

> They

> got better after they left him and self-medicated at higher doses. Their

> experience makes me doubt his credibility.

>

> Lynn

>

>

>

>

> Iodine