Guest guest Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 Some of you may remember my story. Having been hospitalised twice, first with pancreatitis and secondly with jaundice, due to gravel and sludge in my gallbladder, I was sent for an MRCP, which I couldn't go through with - it made me realise just how claustrophobic I am! I was told I'd be sent for a telescopic inspection of my bile ducts and have been waiting for 2 months for that. Today I got a letter from the surgeon telling me they've decided to go ahead with the gallbladder removal and THEN do the telescopic investigation, down to my pancreas and duodenum, and that I'm on the urgent waiting list. I've been too scared after the very nasty time I had with the jaundice to try any of the flushes and confess I've not been eating well - just pretty low fat to avoid an attack. Recently I've been eating more fat without any problems (hope I'm not speaking too soon!). I am not convinced that removing my gallbladder is the right way to go. I've not had an attack since June, after having had about 6 of varying degrees over the previous 8 months. I'm also 20 stone and not happy about being operated on. I'd prefer to put it off unless it's really really essential. Does anyone have any advice for me?! Alison UK -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.5/533 - Release Date: 13/11/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 try a couple of cleansing before you rip out your GB. Don't be a wimp. Alison Orr <alison@...> wrote: Some of you may remember my story. Having been hospitalised twice, first with pancreatitis and secondly with jaundice, due to gravel and sludge in my gallbladder, I was sent for an MRCP, which I couldn't go through with - it made me realise just how claustrophobic I am! I was told I'd be sent for a telescopic inspection of my bile ducts and have been waiting for 2 months for that. Today I got a letter from the surgeon telling me they've decided to go ahead with the gallbladder removal and THEN do the telescopic investigation, down to my pancreas and duodenum, and that I'm on the urgent waiting list. I've been too scared after the very nasty time I had with the jaundice to try any of the flushes and confess I've not been eating well - just pretty low fat to avoid an attack. Recently I've been eating more fat without any problems (hope I'm not speaking too soon!). I am not convinced that removing my gallbladder is the right way to go. I've not had an attack since June, after having had about 6 of varying degrees over the previous 8 months. I'm also 20 stone and not happy about being operated on. I'd prefer to put it off unless it's really really essential. Does anyone have any advice for me?! Alison UK -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.5/533 - Release Date: 13/11/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 They have decided to go ahead with the gallbladder removal and then do a telescopic inspection? How kind. You think they might have consulted you first. Run, don't walk away from any healthcare practitioner, alopathic or " natural " , that decides what they are going to do and then informs you without getting your opinion first and consent second. The exercise will do your liver and gallbladder good. When I first read that they were going to do a telescopic inspection I thought " Cool, they can do that?! " , but as I read on it turns out that they will open you up first, take the supposedly offending organ, and then go down the other direction. Knife happy. Gravel and sludge are the least offensive things you can have in your gallbladder compared to stones and infections. That they are not even recommending but informing of the removal of your gallbladder is shameful. You are eating more fat and doing pretty well... Always, in all ways, -Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Alison Orr<mailto:alison@...> gallstones <mailto:gallstones > Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 4:08 PM Subject: Op on the cards Some of you may remember my story. Having been hospitalised twice, first with pancreatitis and secondly with jaundice, due to gravel and sludge in my gallbladder, I was sent for an MRCP, which I couldn't go through with - it made me realise just how claustrophobic I am! I was told I'd be sent for a telescopic inspection of my bile ducts and have been waiting for 2 months for that. Today I got a letter from the surgeon telling me they've decided to go ahead with the gallbladder removal and THEN do the telescopic investigation, down to my pancreas and duodenum, and that I'm on the urgent waiting list. I've been too scared after the very nasty time I had with the jaundice to try any of the flushes and confess I've not been eating well - just pretty low fat to avoid an attack. Recently I've been eating more fat without any problems (hope I'm not speaking too soon!). I am not convinced that removing my gallbladder is the right way to go. I've not had an attack since June, after having had about 6 of varying degrees over the previous 8 months. I'm also 20 stone and not happy about being operated on. I'd prefer to put it off unless it's really really essential. Does anyone have any advice for me?! Alison UK -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.5/533 - Release Date: 13/11/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2006 Report Share Posted November 15, 2006 The doctors wanted rip my GB out 4 years ago. I did more checking and found supportive people who walked me through the " flushes " . I did 51 flushes because there were over 15,000 " stones " flushed. My concern now is my stools are dark green and I am getting feedback on why? The consensus is that may GB was so expanded that it will take time to shrink because it was so loaded with " stones " . The size of the GB I am told is so enlarged that the liver is pouring bile into the GB and squirting into my small intestine which is causing the green color. I am listening to what I should do about this problem. ----- Original Message ---- From: Dave Shelden <wholehealthawareness@...> gallstones Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 7:59:50 AM Subject: Re: Op on the cards They have decided to go ahead with the gallbladder removal and then do a telescopic inspection? How kind. You think they might have consulted you first. Run, don't walk away from any health care practitioner, alopathic or " natural " , that decides what they are going to do and then informs you without getting your opinion first and consent second. The exercise will do your liver and gallbladder good. When I first read that they were going to do a telescopic inspection I thought " Cool, they can do that?! " , but as I read on it turns out that they will open you up first, take the supposedly offending organ, and then go down the other direction. Knife happy. Gravel and sludge are the least offensive things you can have in your gallbladder compared to stones and infections. That they are not even recommending but informing of the removal of your gallbladder is shameful. You are eating more fat and doing pretty well... Always, in all ways, -Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Alison Orr<mailto:alisontightrope (DOT) org.uk> gallstones@gro ups.com<mailto:gallstones@gro ups.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 4:08 PM Subject: Op on the cards Some of you may remember my story. Having been hospitalised twice, first with pancreatitis and secondly with jaundice, due to gravel and sludge in my gallbladder, I was sent for an MRCP, which I couldn't go through with - it made me realise just how claustrophobic I am! I was told I'd be sent for a telescopic inspection of my bile ducts and have been waiting for 2 months for that. Today I got a letter from the surgeon telling me they've decided to go ahead with the gallbladder removal and THEN do the telescopic investigation, down to my pancreas and duodenum, and that I'm on the urgent waiting list. I've been too scared after the very nasty time I had with the jaundice to try any of the flushes and confess I've not been eating well - just pretty low fat to avoid an attack. Recently I've been eating more fat without any problems (hope I'm not speaking too soon!). I am not convinced that removing my gallbladder is the right way to go. I've not had an attack since June, after having had about 6 of varying degrees over the previous 8 months. I'm also 20 stone and not happy about being operated on. I'd prefer to put it off unless it's really really essential. Does anyone have any advice for me?! Alison UK -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.5/533 - Release Date: 13/11/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Sorry for the delay in replying. I stupidly posted just before I was due to go away for a few days. >>>> -----Original Message----- From: gallstones [mailto:gallstones ]On Behalf Of Dave Shelden They have decided to go ahead with the gallbladder removal and then do a telescopic inspection? How kind. You think they might have consulted you first. Run, don't walk away from any healthcare practitioner, alopathic or " natural " , that decides what they are going to do and then informs you without getting your opinion first and consent second. The exercise will do your liver and gallbladder good. Quite! In the UK we have much less choice than you have in the States where you can chose your practitioner within the medical profession. Here, especially in a rural area like where I live, we come under the catchment area of particular specialists and have to fight the system to have a choice. In the cities it's a little easier because there are simply more medics. I've asked for an appointment to speak to the surgeon about it properly and am going to try to ask for the telescopic investigation first to ascertain whether or not there are any stones in the bile duct. If not (which seems most unlikely as I've not had any pain for 5 months - do you agree?) then I will try flushing and try to also get the surgeon on my side. Surely surely surely a surgeon should not *want* to take out any organ if it's not essential?! >>>> When I first read that they were going to do a telescopic inspection I thought " Cool, they can do that?! " , but as I read on it turns out that they will open you up first, take the supposedly offending organ, and then go down the other direction. Knife happy. Gravel and sludge are the least offensive things you can have in your gallbladder compared to stones and infections. My GP told me that gravel and sludge can be the worse because they're more easily dislodged. >>>> That they are not even recommending but informing of the removal of your gallbladder is shameful. Tis the way of it over here, I'm afraid. You have to be pretty assertive to stand up to the medical profession here (I daresay it's the same in the States). Unfortunately I don't do too well when faced with those with more knowledge than me who dismiss my opinions - I can't fight back because I don't have the knowledge so I will just have to try to persuade. The surgeon has already poo-pooed the idea of flushes and is of the opinion there is absolutely no alternative to removing my gallbladder. If that truly is the case, I think it's shocking that I've been left for 5 months with an organ that " needs to be removed " . >>>> You are eating more fat and doing pretty well... Still not as much as I used to eat. Alison -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.11/542 - Release Date: 20/11/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 >>>>> -----Original Message----- From: gallstones [mailto:gallstones ]On Behalf Of Jay Grosflam try a couple of cleansing before you rip out your GB. Don't be a wimp. Jay your advice is nothing short of irresponsible. Pancreatitis is not something to be sniffed at. Alison -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.11/542 - Release Date: 20/11/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 See Below. ----- Original Message ----- From: Alison Orr<mailto:alison@...> gallstones <mailto:gallstones > Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 4:23 AM Subject: RE: Op on the cards Sorry for the delay in replying. I stupidly posted just before I was due to go away for a few days. >>>> -----Original Message----- From: gallstones <mailto:gallstones > [mailto:gallstones <mailto:gallstones >]On Behalf Of Dave Shelden They have decided to go ahead with the gallbladder removal and then do a telescopic inspection? How kind. You think they might have consulted you first. Run, don't walk away from any healthcare practitioner, alopathic or " natural " , that decides what they are going to do and then informs you without getting your opinion first and consent second. The exercise will do your liver and gallbladder good. Quite! In the UK we have much less choice than you have in the States where you can chose your practitioner within the medical profession. Here, especially in a rural area like where I live, we come under the catchment area of particular specialists and have to fight the system to have a choice. In the cities it's a little easier because there are simply more medics. I've asked for an appointment to speak to the surgeon about it properly and am going to try to ask for the telescopic investigation first to ascertain whether or not there are any stones in the bile duct. If not (which seems most unlikely as I've not had any pain for 5 months - do you agree?) then I will try flushing and try to also get the surgeon on my side. Surely surely surely a surgeon should not *want* to take out any organ if it's not essential?! -Surgeons do surgery. If you ask most any professional about something in their field their answer usually is you need their services. I would not talk to a doctor let alone a surgeon over here about my gallbladder except in a life threatening emergency for exactly the same reasons. -They should be able to determine whether there is a stone stuck in the duct without having to go in. Since you have been doing pretty well, most likely (most most likely) whatever caused your pancreatitis and jaundice has moved through (or de-inflamed). While you have little say in medical treatment in that system you have an immense amount to say before any treatment. " What they don't know won't hurt you. " >>>> When I first read that they were going to do a telescopic inspection I thought " Cool, they can do that?! " , but as I read on it turns out that they will open you up first, take the supposedly offending organ, and then go down the other direction. Knife happy. Gravel and sludge are the least offensive things you can have in your gallbladder compared to stones and infections. My GP told me that gravel and sludge can be the worse because they're more easily dislodged. - Hopefully! you want them to dislodge. You want them out of the body. They are also the least likely to get stuck. That kind of reasoning by your GP is blind allegiance to a paradigm and has no basis in fact. In fact, it is patently wrong. It is a vile (bile) attempt to convince you under the pretext of authority. >>>> That they are not even recommending but informing of the removal of your gallbladder is shameful. Tis the way of it over here, I'm afraid. You have to be pretty assertive to stand up to the medical profession here (I daresay it's the same in the States). Unfortunately I don't do too well when faced with those with more knowledge than me who dismiss my opinions - I can't fight back because I don't have the knowledge so I will just have to try to persuade. The surgeon has already poo-pooed the idea of flushes and is of the opinion there is absolutely no alternative to removing my gallbladder. If that truly is the case, I think it's shocking that I've been left for 5 months with an organ that " needs to be removed " . - Maybe it doesn't need to be removed. Maybe divine intervention has allowed you to still have it so that you can take control of your own destiny. You are not faced with someone with more knowledge than you in this case; the surgeon is ignorant to proper gallbladder health and alternatives to his one remedy (wrong remedy in some instances, maybe yours) education. >>>> You are eating more fat and doing pretty well... -The fact that you have been eating more fats and have not had any major attacks is an indicator that you are a prime candidate for keeping your gallbladder and restoring it to health, whether through flushes or other means. If you do this before you see the priests of medicine then there will be no argument at all. Careful about putting your health and the decisions related to it in the hands of others. While highly educated, their education is limited in scope. Take their counsel but pilot your own destiny. -Foods do not cause gallbladder attacks. Diet can however precipitate (literally) the problem. Attacks are the effect of either diseased gallbladders or unreleased normal metabolic waste and digestive secretions. Certain foods will stimulate a normal function that can be excruciatingly uncomfortable when the problem exists. -Flushing is a one or multiple shot attempt if diet and lifestyle changes do not follow. This is a remarkable opportunity. Choose wisely. -Dave Still not as much as I used to eat. Alison -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. 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Guest guest Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Ok here's the big question: -----Original Message----- From: gallstones [mailto:gallstones ]On Behalf Of Dave Shelden -Flushing is a one or multiple shot attempt if diet and lifestyle changes do not follow. This is a remarkable opportunity. Choose wisely. -Dave There's so much information out there, with my ME/CFS I find it very hard to take in. I know this is a tall order but can you give me some guidance in a nutshell? Cabot's Liver Health book perhaps? Alison -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.11/542 - Release Date: 20/11/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Hold on, here is the big answer... In total it is much more than a liver or a gallbladder. I have not read either Cabot's nor s Moritz info but know them both to be highly respected. In the immediate moment if you are going to start with a flush there are plenty in the archives and links at the bottom of this page. Expect miraculous results but do not be discouraged if you do not have them on the first flush. This is the beginning not the end. In the bigger picture you cannot separate liver from gallbladder, from cardiovascular, from kidney function, from endocrine, from central nervous system, etc ad nauseum. Everything is connected to everything else. So Thyroid effects gallbladder, and gallbladder affects digestion, and digestion affects hormones... Diet (not necessarily dieting though in our present culture this may also be important) and physical activity are crucial to regaining and maintaining " health " (that elusive state. More of a journey than a goal). My reference to this being an opportunity is several fold. If it is not right at the gallbladder level, it is not right elsewhere. This does not mean that someone with gallbladder issues is a basket case, not at all. But if you cut the organ out, no changes usually get made to the factors that precipitated the problem to begin with. If you cut the organ out you will definitely have an increase in comfort and you will have positive results in other areas that are being negatively effected by the situation. But, you will not have improvement in other areas that you can if you save the organ and allow normal function between it and the other areas, and you might experience negative situations from lack of the organ and it's function. If you make the changes and do the work that it takes to save your gallbladder and regain a healthy stasis you will experience positive changes in many other areas. Sometimes as painful and frightening as gallbladder problems can be, those other changes can look more important in retrospect. Anybody out there experienced this? Are all gallbladders savable? Absolutely not. Those who think " alternative " medicine is the answer for everything are lemmings close to a cliff. But even if not savable every avenue short of resection should be explored as long as one has time. -Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Alison Orr<mailto:alison@...> gallstones <mailto:gallstones > Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 10:32 AM Subject: RE: Op on the cards Ok here's the big question: -----Original Message----- From: gallstones <mailto:gallstones > [mailto:gallstones <mailto:gallstones >]On Behalf Of Dave Shelden -Flushing is a one or multiple shot attempt if diet and lifestyle changes do not follow. This is a remarkable opportunity. Choose wisely. -Dave There's so much information out there, with my ME/CFS I find it very hard to take in. I know this is a tall order but can you give me some guidance in a nutshell? Cabot's Liver Health book perhaps? Alison -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.11/542 - Release Date: 20/11/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 Dave - thanks for your thoughtful reply. In all honesty my biggest problem is money. I'm on an extremely tight budget, being on state benefits, and it's very difficult to make ends meet. I struggle to get the best value for money and stick to a healthy diet. I know you've recommended Dr Mercola's site before and I do have a copy of his No Grain Diet book. Trying to make decisions about what's best to eat is a total minefield for me when it comes to trying to make it fit a budget a too. Low-carbing has been the most successful way for me to lose weight in the past but as it's high fat, I'm reluctant to try it again. It's also a bit too expensive for my budget at the moment. Currently I manage to make very cheap satisfying meals using porridge, bread and beans. However, filling up on bread isn't the best for me, just the cheapest. Just not sure which way to turn...! Alison -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.11/542 - Release Date: 20/11/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2006 Report Share Posted November 23, 2006 Those beans are great! Beans are 4 times higher in fiber than oatmeal by the way. While fats will stimulate gallbladder contraction, they are essential in gallbladder and liver health and also essential for the detox and cleansing of both. Don't necessarily buy into the " avoid fats " paradigm. It only serves the " Stay pain free until we can fit you in for surgery " school. Just make sure that the fats you consume are quality fats. I am a low prol too, feeding a family of 6 on $10 bucks is an art form, and can be done super healthy. The exercise is free. Breathing is free. Quote from TCM " All chi comes from the food you eat and the air you breathe. " (the exception would be " heavenly " chi or the inherited factor). Lots of water. More water. Another quote from TCM, " All pain is stagnant chi or blood. " Chi gung exercises in a book called " Be A Healer " by Chunyi Lin. If you can keep the chi moving (One more quote: " Chi moves blood, blood nourishes chi. " ) it will not matter what crepitus you have in your gallbladder, you will be able to rid yourself of it comfortably. There are no reasons that you cannot do this, only obstacles. Obstacles are for moving around or destroying. While somewhat at effect of your situation, you are a strong and determined individual. -Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Alison Orr<mailto:alison@...> gallstones <mailto:gallstones > Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 3:55 PM Subject: RE: Op on the cards Dave - thanks for your thoughtful reply. In all honesty my biggest problem is money. I'm on an extremely tight budget, being on state benefits, and it's very difficult to make ends meet. I struggle to get the best value for money and stick to a healthy diet. I know you've recommended Dr Mercola's site before and I do have a copy of his No Grain Diet book. Trying to make decisions about what's best to eat is a total minefield for me when it comes to trying to make it fit a budget a too. Low-carbing has been the most successful way for me to lose weight in the past but as it's high fat, I'm reluctant to try it again. It's also a bit too expensive for my budget at the moment. Currently I manage to make very cheap satisfying meals using porridge, bread and beans. However, filling up on bread isn't the best for me, just the cheapest. Just not sure which way to turn...! Alison -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.11/542 - Release Date: 20/11/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 > > Some of you may remember my story. Having been hospitalised twice, first > with pancreatitis and secondly with jaundice, due to gravel and sludge in my > gallbladder, I was sent for an MRCP, which I couldn't go through with - it > made me realise just how claustrophobic I am! I was told I'd be sent for a > telescopic inspection of my bile ducts and have been waiting for 2 months > for that. Today I got a letter from the surgeon telling me they've decided > to go ahead with the gallbladder removal and THEN do the telescopic > investigation, down to my pancreas and duodenum, and that I'm on the urgent > waiting list. > > I've been too scared after the very nasty time I had with the jaundice to > try any of the flushes and confess I've not been eating well - just pretty > low fat to avoid an attack. Recently I've been eating more fat without any > problems (hope I'm not speaking too soon!). > > I am not convinced that removing my gallbladder is the right way to go. > I've not had an attack since June, after having had about 6 of varying > degrees over the previous 8 months. I'm also 20 stone and not happy about > being operated on. I'd prefer to put it off unless it's really really > essential. > > Does anyone have any advice for me?! > > Alison > UK >Hi Alison, I'm having surgery on mon. the 11th. I'm sooooo scared. But I'm also in so much pain most of the time. On top of that I have a hernia right below my ribs i guess where my sternum would be. I hope removing my gall bladder helps with my constant heartburn bloating and gas. I hope you are doing better when you get this. Did you have the surgery? and what effects are you having now? St. Louis, Mo. US > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.5/533 - Release Date: 13/11/2006 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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