Guest guest Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 Hi Anne, Just the nature of volatile oils evaporating at body temperature gives them an expanding, dispersing, and rising characteristic. So while we cannot inhibit the effect we can definitely balance out the energetic by using something with a cooling draining characteristic. The fact that you have a problem with burping when you take something that contains volatiles (in normal amounts) is indicative to your digestion not flowing freely in a downward direction. This may be rooted in several different things. Some type of obstruction may be present. Do not let this alarm you. The " obstruction " could be physical mass (tumor; very bad) impaction (piece of cake), constriction (piece of cake). It can be chronically (constitutionally) or acutely (enviromental: diet and lifestyle, stressors, etc.) " energetic " . Believe it or not, it could be emotionally based. If you are use to holding your breath or holding your words in fear of whatever someone else might think or react, or holding your normal elimination processes for convenience, you can set up an automatic physical stasis that would make you predisposed for reduced flow. The solution is dependent on the underlying cause of the condition. -Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: vanadeux<mailto:vanadeux@...> gallstones <mailto:gallstones > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 6:01 AM Subject: thanks Dave your reply is very interesting and valid..I understand what you are saying about the different qualities and enregies of herbs etc..ie..the rising quality, or the downward energy.. I wonder if there is any way to reduce the upward effects of the terpenes, as they obviously have their benefits ... many thanks ANNE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 Hello Dave and Anne, I read your comments-wondered if your words to describe the different energies is naturpathic medicine or ayurvedic medicine? I no longer have my gallbladder so I want to know if these cleanses are good for the liver. What function did really loose-that's the rub... ~Sabina Dave Shelden <wholehealthawareness@...> wrote: Hi Anne, Just the nature of volatile oils evaporating at body temperature gives them an expanding, dispersing, and rising characteristic. So while we cannot inhibit the effect we can definitely balance out the energetic by using something with a cooling draining characteristic. The fact that you have a problem with burping when you take something that contains volatiles (in normal amounts) is indicative to your digestion not flowing freely in a downward direction. This may be rooted in several different things. Some type of obstruction may be present. Do not let this alarm you. The " obstruction " could be physical mass (tumor; very bad) impaction (piece of cake), constriction (piece of cake). It can be chronically (constitutionally) or acutely (enviromental: diet and lifestyle, stressors, etc.) " energetic " . Believe it or not, it could be emotionally based. If you are use to holding your breath or holding your words in fear of whatever someone else might think or react, or holding your normal elimination processes for convenience, you can set up an automatic physical stasis that would make you predisposed for reduced flow. The solution is dependent on the underlying cause of the condition. -Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: vanadeux<mailto:vanadeux@...> gallstones <mailto:gallstones > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 6:01 AM Subject: thanks Dave your reply is very interesting and valid..I understand what you are saying about the different qualities and enregies of herbs etc..ie..the rising quality, or the downward energy.. I wonder if there is any way to reduce the upward effects of the terpenes, as they obviously have their benefits ... many thanks ANNE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 Dear Dave your reply was very interesting..I suspect strongly an emotional content that has caused my digestion to be well below par for a long time, I am dealing with this.. also feel that there are stones and can feel the congestion... I can start up my qigong which helps very much with the downard flow of energy..plus brings fresh energy in..not just circulating the chi. (cosmic freedom quigong) Its so important to undestand the energetic nature of things..so I do understand your comments. thanks ANNE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2007 Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 Hi Sabina, All traditional healing schools have an energetic model. Believe it or not even western allopathic medicine had this at the roots. They have just thrown the baby out with the bathwater. Unfortunately naturopathic medicine from an institutional standpoint has little of the energetic model left. they are pretty much " science " oriented. This is not to say that there are not a lot of naturopaths that are well schooled in energetic philosophies, it is just that they have an advanced education past the educational curriculum. Flushing the liver is still important after gallbladder removal but the intense stimulation of bile is drastically reduced since you no longer have a reservoir. Running quality oils, liver nutrients and bile stimulating herbs through is a great idea but choking down 8 ounces of olive oil at a time will not be significantly productive. -Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Sabina Vega<mailto:sabinavega1@...> gallstones <mailto:gallstones > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 11:42 AM Subject: Re: thanks Dave Hello Dave and Anne, I read your comments-wondered if your words to describe the different energies is naturpathic medicine or ayurvedic medicine? I no longer have my gallbladder so I want to know if these cleanses are good for the liver. What function did really loose-that's the rub... ~Sabina Dave Shelden <wholehealthawareness@...<mailto:wholehealthawareness@...>> wrote: Hi Anne, Just the nature of volatile oils evaporating at body temperature gives them an expanding, dispersing, and rising characteristic. So while we cannot inhibit the effect we can definitely balance out the energetic by using something with a cooling draining characteristic. The fact that you have a problem with burping when you take something that contains volatiles (in normal amounts) is indicative to your digestion not flowing freely in a downward direction. This may be rooted in several different things. Some type of obstruction may be present. Do not let this alarm you. The " obstruction " could be physical mass (tumor; very bad) impaction (piece of cake), constriction (piece of cake). It can be chronically (constitutionally) or acutely (enviromental: diet and lifestyle, stressors, etc.) " energetic " . Believe it or not, it could be emotionally based. If you are use to holding your breath or holding your words in fear of whatever someone else might think or react, or holding your normal elimination processes for convenience, you can set up an automatic physical stasis that would make you predisposed for reduced flow. The solution is dependent on the underlying cause of the condition. -Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: vanadeux<mailto:vanadeux@...<mailto:vanadeux@...>> To: gallstones <mailto:gallstones ><mailto:gallstones@\ <mailto:gallstones >> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 6:01 AM Subject: thanks Dave your reply is very interesting and valid..I understand what you are saying about the different qualities and enregies of herbs etc..ie..the rising quality, or the downward energy.. I wonder if there is any way to reduce the upward effects of the terpenes, as they obviously have their benefits ... many thanks ANNE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 Dave, I'm a bit confused here. You say " Flushing the liver is still important after gallbladder removal " . But then you go on to say " but choking down 8 ozs. of olive oil at a time will not be significantly productive " . So what sort of flush do you recommend for people without gallbladders? Also, what about the stones that are said to be in the liver? What does it take to flush those out? Wouldn't one need to do that even if they have no gallbladder? AMDG, Colleen K. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Shelden gallstones Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 5:52 PM Subject: Re: thanks Dave Hi Sabina, All traditional healing schools have an energetic model. Believe it or not even western allopathic medicine had this at the roots. They have just thrown the baby out with the bathwater. Unfortunately naturopathic medicine from an institutional standpoint has little of the energetic model left. they are pretty much " science " oriented. This is not to say that there are not a lot of naturopaths that are well schooled in energetic philosophies, it is just that they have an advanced education past the educational curriculum. Flushing the liver is still important after gallbladder removal but the intense stimulation of bile is drastically reduced since you no longer have a reservoir. Running quality oils, liver nutrients and bile stimulating herbs through is a great idea but choking down 8 ounces of olive oil at a time will not be significantly productive. -Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Sabina Vega<mailto:sabinavega1@...> gallstones <mailto:gallstones > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 11:42 AM Subject: Re: thanks Dave Hello Dave and Anne, I read your comments-wondered if your words to describe the different energies is naturpathic medicine or ayurvedic medicine? I no longer have my gallbladder so I want to know if these cleanses are good for the liver. What function did really loose-that's the rub... ~Sabina Dave Shelden <wholehealthawareness@...<mailto:wholehealthawareness@...>> wrote: Hi Anne, Just the nature of volatile oils evaporating at body temperature gives them an expanding, dispersing, and rising characteristic. So while we cannot inhibit the effect we can definitely balance out the energetic by using something with a cooling draining characteristic. The fact that you have a problem with burping when you take something that contains volatiles (in normal amounts) is indicative to your digestion not flowing freely in a downward direction. This may be rooted in several different things. Some type of obstruction may be present. Do not let this alarm you. The " obstruction " could be physical mass (tumor; very bad) impaction (piece of cake), constriction (piece of cake). It can be chronically (constitutionally) or acutely (enviromental: diet and lifestyle, stressors, etc.) " energetic " . Believe it or not, it could be emotionally based. If you are use to holding your breath or holding your words in fear of whatever someone else might think or react, or holding your normal elimination processes for convenience, you can set up an automatic physical stasis that would make you predisposed for reduced flow. The solution is dependent on the underlying cause of the condition. -Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: vanadeux<mailto:vanadeux@...<mailto:vanadeux@...>> To: gallstones <mailto:gallstones ><mailto:gallstones@\ <mailto:gallstones >> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 6:01 AM Subject: thanks Dave your reply is very interesting and valid..I understand what you are saying about the different qualities and enregies of herbs etc..ie..the rising quality, or the downward energy.. I wonder if there is any way to reduce the upward effects of the terpenes, as they obviously have their benefits ... many thanks ANNE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 Hi Colleen, I probably should have used the word detox instead of flushing. The gallbladder flushes that we generally talk about here are designed to create a great big release of bile from the gallbladder. the liver is producing and releasing bile constantly (in small amounts). Some of it goes up the gallbladder duct where it is stored in quantity and concentrated. With these flushes we are trying to build up a bladder full of bile and then when we drink all that olive oil it stimulates a gigantic release, creating a flash flood, and hopefully flushing out any crepitous that may be in the gallbladder. The liver does not store large quantities of bile so we cannot create the same effect in the liver. What we can do is use supplements that encourage bile formation and then herbs that encourage bile production in order to " flush " out (detox) the liver. While the oils will stimulate the production of bile to some extent we cannot cause a gigantic burst from the liver like we can the gallbladder. Think of the gallbladder as a water balloon that you are filling up at the spigot (liver) on the side of the house. We can only get a trickle of water out of the spigot. Your brother is in range but unfortunately we cannot get a big enough stream out of the spigot to reach him. We want to fill the balloon up with as much water as we can and then let the neck of the balloon loose at the right moment, soaking him down good. If you do not have a balloon, you cannot play that game. However if there is rust in the pipes we still want to turn the spigot on as high as we can to clean the pipes out. As to liver stones, all of the same supplements we talk about here to dilute and dissolve plus as I said things that stimulate production and flow of bile will be helpful but 8 oz of olive oil will not create a gargantuan dump. Better to take that 8 ounces over an 8 day period. You will create and flow much more bile (from the liver). -Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony Kessler<mailto:tcjak86@...> gallstones <mailto:gallstones > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 5:10 PM Subject: Re: thanks Dave Dave, I'm a bit confused here. You say " Flushing the liver is still important after gallbladder removal " . But then you go on to say " but choking down 8 ozs. of olive oil at a time will not be significantly productive " . So what sort of flush do you recommend for people without gallbladders? Also, what about the stones that are said to be in the liver? What does it take to flush those out? Wouldn't one need to do that even if they have no gallbladder? AMDG, Colleen K. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Shelden gallstones <mailto:gallstones > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 5:52 PM Subject: Re: thanks Dave Hi Sabina, All traditional healing schools have an energetic model. Believe it or not even western allopathic medicine had this at the roots. They have just thrown the baby out with the bathwater. Unfortunately naturopathic medicine from an institutional standpoint has little of the energetic model left. they are pretty much " science " oriented. This is not to say that there are not a lot of naturopaths that are well schooled in energetic philosophies, it is just that they have an advanced education past the educational curriculum. Flushing the liver is still important after gallbladder removal but the intense stimulation of bile is drastically reduced since you no longer have a reservoir. Running quality oils, liver nutrients and bile stimulating herbs through is a great idea but choking down 8 ounces of olive oil at a time will not be significantly productive. -Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Sabina Vega<mailto:sabinavega1@...<mailto:sabinavega1@...>> To: gallstones <mailto:gallstones ><mailto:gallstones@\ <mailto:gallstones >> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 11:42 AM Subject: Re: thanks Dave Hello Dave and Anne, I read your comments-wondered if your words to describe the different energies is naturpathic medicine or ayurvedic medicine? I no longer have my gallbladder so I want to know if these cleanses are good for the liver. What function did really loose-that's the rub... ~Sabina Dave Shelden <wholehealthawareness@...<mailto:wholehealthawareness@...><mailto:wholeh\ ealthawareness@...<mailto:wholehealthawareness@...>>> wrote: Hi Anne, Just the nature of volatile oils evaporating at body temperature gives them an expanding, dispersing, and rising characteristic. So while we cannot inhibit the effect we can definitely balance out the energetic by using something with a cooling draining characteristic. The fact that you have a problem with burping when you take something that contains volatiles (in normal amounts) is indicative to your digestion not flowing freely in a downward direction. This may be rooted in several different things. Some type of obstruction may be present. Do not let this alarm you. The " obstruction " could be physical mass (tumor; very bad) impaction (piece of cake), constriction (piece of cake). It can be chronically (constitutionally) or acutely (enviromental: diet and lifestyle, stressors, etc.) " energetic " . Believe it or not, it could be emotionally based. If you are use to holding your breath or holding your words in fear of whatever someone else might think or react, or holding your normal elimination processes for convenience, you can set up an automatic physical stasis that would make you predisposed for reduced flow. The solution is dependent on the underlying cause of the condition. -Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: vanadeux<mailto:vanadeux@...<mailto:vanadeux@...><mailto:v\ anadeux@...<mailto:vanadeux@...>>> To: gallstones <mailto:gallstones ><mailto:gallstones@\ <mailto:gallstones >><mailto:gallstones@group\ s.com<mailto:gallstones ><mailto:gallstones <mailt\ o:gallstones >>> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 6:01 AM Subject: thanks Dave your reply is very interesting and valid..I understand what you are saying about the different qualities and enregies of herbs etc..ie..the rising quality, or the downward energy.. I wonder if there is any way to reduce the upward effects of the terpenes, as they obviously have their benefits ... many thanks ANNE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 Dave, What process do you use for a 8 day flush? Thanks ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 What I was referring to is not actually an 8 day flush. In the case of gallbladder removal the intake of oil would be better in smaller amounts over a longer period of time than all at once. You will produce more bile and it is easier on the taste buds. Does this make sense? -Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Mom2SavNSyd@...<mailto:Mom2SavNSyd@...> gallstones <mailto:gallstones > Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 12:43 PM Subject: Re: thanks Dave Dave, What process do you use for a 8 day flush? Thanks ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.<http://www.aol.com./> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 Hi Dave, So from this I should take, ingest 1 cup EVOO(Extra Virgin Olive Oil) and the juice of 10 lemons, do 1 medium size gulp in AM for as long as it takes to finish the concocation. I usually eat this mixture as a " salad dressing " adding only a pinch of sea salt and ground pepper, YUM So my medium size gulp will be a small gulp as I don't like alot of dressing on my greens. What do you think of this-to do thecleanse of the liver after gall bladder removal. Always, Sabina~ Dave Shelden <wholehealthawareness@...> wrote: What I was referring to is not actually an 8 day flush. In the case of gallbladder removal the intake of oil would be better in smaller amounts over a longer period of time than all at once. You will produce more bile and it is easier on the taste buds. Does this make sense? -Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Mom2SavNSyd@...<mailto:Mom2SavNSyd@...> gallstones <mailto:gallstones > Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 12:43 PM Subject: Re: thanks Dave Dave, What process do you use for a 8 day flush? Thanks ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.<http://www.aol.com./> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 Hi Sabina, My advise is to not take the olive oil and lemon juice mixture in one day but to spread it out over a week. You will get very little benefit if you take it like a gallbladder cleanse. -Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Sabina Vega<mailto:sabinavega1@...> gallstones <mailto:gallstones > Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 7:15 AM Subject: Re: thanks Dave Hi Dave, So from this I should take, ingest 1 cup EVOO(Extra Virgin Olive Oil) and the juice of 10 lemons, do 1 medium size gulp in AM for as long as it takes to finish the concocation. I usually eat this mixture as a " salad dressing " adding only a pinch of sea salt and ground pepper, YUM So my medium size gulp will be a small gulp as I don't like alot of dressing on my greens. What do you think of this-to do thecleanse of the liver after gall bladder removal. Always, Sabina~ Dave Shelden <wholehealthawareness@...<mailto:wholehealthawareness@...>> wrote: What I was referring to is not actually an 8 day flush. In the case of gallbladder removal the intake of oil would be better in smaller amounts over a longer period of time than all at once. You will produce more bile and it is easier on the taste buds. Does this make sense? -Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Mom2SavNSyd@...<mailto:Mom2SavNSyd@...><mailto:Mom2SavNSyd@...<mailt\ o:Mom2SavNSyd@...>> To: gallstones <mailto:gallstones ><mailto:gallstones@\ <mailto:gallstones >> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 12:43 PM Subject: Re: thanks Dave Dave, What process do you use for a 8 day flush? Thanks ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.<http://www.aol.com./><http://www.aol.com./<http://wwwaol.com\ ../>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 Dave, Thank you for your response. And for all your excellent, sensible advice that you have offered here over the years. Let me just add that, regarding flushing, I did about 7 flushes over the year and a half I spent trying to save my gallbladder. I had one large stone and a thickened gallbladder wall and just couldn't get the job done. I had the gallbladder removed about 3 years ago. Two or three weeks ago I finally got around to trying my first post-no gallbladder flush. I decided to start small and only consumed 1/4 cup oil and 1/4 cup lemon juice. The next day, I passed a few of the soft green " stones " . But what really struck me, was how good I felt. I know you are supposed to feel a bit run down the day after your flush, but I felt better mentally and physically than I have in a long time, that day. I am not sure if it was the non-fat diet the day before, the small flush itself or what, but there was a definite positive response to the flush that I never experienced doing the full flushes when I had my gallbladder. Anyway, I thought that doing another flush with a bit more oil/juice and finally working up to the full 8 oz recipe would work even better in helping the benefits to last. As it was, I only experienced the positive response for a day. Perhaps as I mentioned, it was the fact that I consumed only fruits/vegs, some in juiced form, the day before. Would it hurt if I tried another small flush with a bit more oil? Or are you saying that you believe it would just be a waste of time? If so, would repeating the small, 1/4 cup flush from time to time be the way to go? And hope that the benefits eventually last more than one day? Thanks in advance. AMDG, Colleen ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Shelden gallstones Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 7:43 PM Subject: Re: thanks Dave Hi Colleen, I probably should have used the word detox instead of flushing. The gallbladder flushes that we generally talk about here are designed to create a great big release of bile from the gallbladder. the liver is producing and releasing bile constantly (in small amounts). Some of it goes up the gallbladder duct where it is stored in quantity and concentrated. With these flushes we are trying to build up a bladder full of bile and then when we drink all that olive oil it stimulates a gigantic release, creating a flash flood, and hopefully flushing out any crepitous that may be in the gallbladder. The liver does not store large quantities of bile so we cannot create the same effect in the liver. What we can do is use supplements that encourage bile formation and then herbs that encourage bile production in order to " flush " out (detox) the liver. While the oils will stimulate the production of bile to some extent we cannot cause a gigantic burst from the liver like we can the gallbladder. Think of the gallbladder as a water balloon that you are filling up at the spigot (liver) on the side of the house. We can only get a trickle of water out of the spigot. Your brother is in range but unfortunately we cannot get a big enough stream out of the spigot to reach him. We want to fill the balloon up with as much water as we can and then let the neck of the balloon loose at the right moment, soaking him down good. If you do not have a balloon, you cannot play that game. However if there is rust in the pipes we still want to turn the spigot on as high as we can to clean the pipes out. As to liver stones, all of the same supplements we talk about here to dilute and dissolve plus as I said things that stimulate production and flow of bile will be helpful but 8 oz of olive oil will not create a gargantuan dump. Better to take that 8 ounces over an 8 day period. You will create and flow much more bile (from the liver). -Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony Kessler<mailto:tcjak86@...> gallstones <mailto:gallstones > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 5:10 PM Subject: Re: thanks Dave Dave, I'm a bit confused here. You say " Flushing the liver is still important after gallbladder removal " . But then you go on to say " but choking down 8 ozs. of olive oil at a time will not be significantly productive " . So what sort of flush do you recommend for people without gallbladders? Also, what about the stones that are said to be in the liver? What does it take to flush those out? Wouldn't one need to do that even if they have no gallbladder? AMDG, Colleen K. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Shelden gallstones <mailto:gallstones > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 5:52 PM Subject: Re: thanks Dave Hi Sabina, All traditional healing schools have an energetic model. Believe it or not even western allopathic medicine had this at the roots. They have just thrown the baby out with the bathwater. Unfortunately naturopathic medicine from an institutional standpoint has little of the energetic model left. they are pretty much " science " oriented. This is not to say that there are not a lot of naturopaths that are well schooled in energetic philosophies, it is just that they have an advanced education past the educational curriculum. Flushing the liver is still important after gallbladder removal but the intense stimulation of bile is drastically reduced since you no longer have a reservoir. Running quality oils, liver nutrients and bile stimulating herbs through is a great idea but choking down 8 ounces of olive oil at a time will not be significantly productive. -Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Sabina Vega<mailto:sabinavega1@...<mailto:sabinavega1@...>> To: gallstones <mailto:gallstones ><mailto:gallstones@\ <mailto:gallstones >> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 11:42 AM Subject: Re: thanks Dave Hello Dave and Anne, I read your comments-wondered if your words to describe the different energies is naturpathic medicine or ayurvedic medicine? I no longer have my gallbladder so I want to know if these cleanses are good for the liver. What function did really loose-that's the rub... ~Sabina Dave Shelden <wholehealthawareness@...<mailto:wholehealthawareness@...><mailto:wholeh\ ealthawareness@...<mailto:wholehealthawareness@...>>> wrote: Hi Anne, Just the nature of volatile oils evaporating at body temperature gives them an expanding, dispersing, and rising characteristic. So while we cannot inhibit the effect we can definitely balance out the energetic by using something with a cooling draining characteristic. The fact that you have a problem with burping when you take something that contains volatiles (in normal amounts) is indicative to your digestion not flowing freely in a downward direction. This may be rooted in several different things. Some type of obstruction may be present. Do not let this alarm you. The " obstruction " could be physical mass (tumor; very bad) impaction (piece of cake), constriction (piece of cake). It can be chronically (constitutionally) or acutely (enviromental: diet and lifestyle, stressors, etc.) " energetic " . Believe it or not, it could be emotionally based. If you are use to holding your breath or holding your words in fear of whatever someone else might think or react, or holding your normal elimination processes for convenience, you can set up an automatic physical stasis that would make you predisposed for reduced flow. The solution is dependent on the underlying cause of the condition. -Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: vanadeux<mailto:vanadeux@...<mailto:vanadeux@...><mailto:v\ anadeux@...<mailto:vanadeux@...>>> To: gallstones <mailto:gallstones ><mailto:gallstones@\ <mailto:gallstones >><mailto:gallstones@group\ s.com<mailto:gallstones ><mailto:gallstones <mailt\ o:gallstones >>> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 6:01 AM Subject: thanks Dave your reply is very interesting and valid..I understand what you are saying about the different qualities and enregies of herbs etc..ie..the rising quality, or the downward energy.. I wonder if there is any way to reduce the upward effects of the terpenes, as they obviously have their benefits ... many thanks ANNE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 Hi Colleen, I am very glad to hear that you felt better the day after doing the half flush. The proof is in the pudding. The fact that you you experienced a definite positive response speaks volumes for the process. May you feel better day by day. The liver is an incredible organ. It creates or metabolizes hundreds of chemical compounds as well as being a main filtering and elimination organ. The filtrate is eliminated in the bile that is being manufacture by the liver on a fairly even basis (pretty much all of the time. However, Chinese medicine would say that it would be most active between 1am and 3am... Smart people), a portion of which is brought up into the gallbladder where it is concentrated ( the gallbladder is absorptive, kind of like your intestinal tract) and stored in quantity. When we perform one of the standard flushes we discuss here, we are building up the bile in the gallbladder and then stimulating a large release by consuming a large quantity of oil. The gallbladder is not only a receptacle but has muscles around it. When you ingest a quantity of fats it is stimulated to contract and expel the stored bile (It is this feature that makes it possible to have a gallbladder " attack " ). Even if you have stones and sludge, there is still a quantity of bile to " flush " out (and hopefully take our stones and sludge with it). If the gallbladder has been removed, we do not have this ability. There is nothing " wrong " with having it removed when one has decided this to be the best path, but it does make you work a little bit different. The liver does not " store " bile. It produces it and releases it on a fairly steady basis. Super loading with an oil like with a gallbladder flush will stimulate the production of bile, but not greatly so. You will produce more bile with the same amount of oil if it is taken over a longer period of time. Therefore, taking 1 ounce per day for eight days should give you much more benefit (if you have had your gallbladder removed) than 8 ounces in one day. But again, the proof is in the pudding. There are also other possible benefits of single dose large quantities of oil, like lubrication of the intestines, that may be of value. One way that you could test to see where the benefit you experienced came from would to do the low fat veggie diet without doing a flush and see if that made a difference in how you feel over the next 48 hours. The ingestion of olive oil and lemon juice is a wonderful thing; especially with the right accoutrements. Salads (or any veggie steamed, roasted, fried, etc), especially with bitter greens, are the perfect food for detoxing the liver. Smothered in olive oil and lemon juice if you like. Always, in all ways, -Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony Kessler<mailto:tcjak86@...> gallstones <mailto:gallstones > Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 9:28 PM Subject: Re: thanks Dave Dave, Thank you for your response. And for all your excellent, sensible advice that you have offered here over the years. Let me just add that, regarding flushing, I did about 7 flushes over the year and a half I spent trying to save my gallbladder. I had one large stone and a thickened gallbladder wall and just couldn't get the job done. I had the gallbladder removed about 3 years ago. Two or three weeks ago I finally got around to trying my first post-no gallbladder flush. I decided to start small and only consumed 1/4 cup oil and 1/4 cup lemon juice. The next day, I passed a few of the soft green " stones " . But what really struck me, was how good I felt. I know you are supposed to feel a bit run down the day after your flush, but I felt better mentally and physically than I have in a long time, that day. I am not sure if it was the non-fat diet the day before, the small flush itself or what, but there was a definite positive response to the flush that I never experienced doing the full flushes when I had my gallbladder. Anyway, I thought that doing another flush with a bit more oil/juice and finally working up to the full 8 oz recipe would work even better in helping the benefits to last. As it was, I only experienced the positive response for a day. Perhaps as I mentioned, it was the fact that I consumed only fruits/vegs, some in juiced form, the day before. Would it hurt if I tried another small flush with a bit more oil? Or are you saying that you believe it would just be a waste of time? If so, would repeating the small, 1/4 cup flush from time to time be the way to go? And hope that the benefits eventually last more than one day? Thanks in advance. AMDG, Colleen ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Shelden gallstones <mailto:gallstones > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 7:43 PM Subject: Re: thanks Dave Hi Colleen, I probably should have used the word detox instead of flushing. The gallbladder flushes that we generally talk about here are designed to create a great big release of bile from the gallbladder. the liver is producing and releasing bile constantly (in small amounts). Some of it goes up the gallbladder duct where it is stored in quantity and concentrated. With these flushes we are trying to build up a bladder full of bile and then when we drink all that olive oil it stimulates a gigantic release, creating a flash flood, and hopefully flushing out any crepitous that may be in the gallbladder. The liver does not store large quantities of bile so we cannot create the same effect in the liver. What we can do is use supplements that encourage bile formation and then herbs that encourage bile production in order to " flush " out (detox) the liver. While the oils will stimulate the production of bile to some extent we cannot cause a gigantic burst from the liver like we can the gallbladder. Think of the gallbladder as a water balloon that you are filling up at the spigot (liver) on the side of the house. We can only get a trickle of water out of the spigot. Your brother is in range but unfortunately we cannot get a big enough stream out of the spigot to reach him. We want to fill the balloon up with as much water as we can and then let the neck of the balloon loose at the right moment, soaking him down good. If you do not have a balloon, you cannot play that game. However if there is rust in the pipes we still want to turn the spigot on as high as we can to clean the pipes out. As to liver stones, all of the same supplements we talk about here to dilute and dissolve plus as I said things that stimulate production and flow of bile will be helpful but 8 oz of olive oil will not create a gargantuan dump. Better to take that 8 ounces over an 8 day period. You will create and flow much more bile (from the liver). -Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony Kessler<mailto:tcjak86@...<mailto:tcjak86@...>> To: gallstones <mailto:gallstones ><mailto:gallstones@\ <mailto:gallstones >> Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 5:10 PM Subject: Re: thanks Dave Dave, I'm a bit confused here. You say " Flushing the liver is still important after gallbladder removal " . But then you go on to say " but choking down 8 ozs. of olive oil at a time will not be significantly productive " . So what sort of flush do you recommend for people without gallbladders? Also, what about the stones that are said to be in the liver? What does it take to flush those out? Wouldn't one need to do that even if they have no gallbladder? AMDG, Colleen K. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Shelden To: gallstones <mailto:gallstones ><mailto:gallstones@\ <mailto:gallstones >> Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 5:52 PM Subject: Re: thanks Dave Hi Sabina, All traditional healing schools have an energetic model. Believe it or not even western allopathic medicine had this at the roots. They have just thrown the baby out with the bathwater. Unfortunately naturopathic medicine from an institutional standpoint has little of the energetic model left. they are pretty much " science " oriented. This is not to say that there are not a lot of naturopaths that are well schooled in energetic philosophies, it is just that they have an advanced education past the educational curriculum. Flushing the liver is still important after gallbladder removal but the intense stimulation of bile is drastically reduced since you no longer have a reservoir. Running quality oils, liver nutrients and bile stimulating herbs through is a great idea but choking down 8 ounces of olive oil at a time will not be significantly productive. -Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Sabina Vega<mailto:sabinavega1@...<mailto:sabinavega1@...><mailto:sabinaveg\ a1@...<mailto:sabinavega1@...>>> To: gallstones <mailto:gallstones ><mailto:gallstones@\ <mailto:gallstones >><mailto:gallstones@group\ s.com<mailto:gallstones ><mailto:gallstones <mailt\ o:gallstones >>> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 11:42 AM Subject: Re: thanks Dave Hello Dave and Anne, I read your comments-wondered if your words to describe the different energies is naturpathic medicine or ayurvedic medicine? I no longer have my gallbladder so I want to know if these cleanses are good for the liver. What function did really loose-that's the rub... ~Sabina Dave Shelden <wholehealthawareness@...<mailto:wholehealthawareness@...><mailto:wholeh\ ealthawareness@...<mailto:wholehealthawareness@...>><mailto:wholehealtha\ wareness@...<mailto:wholehealthawareness@...><mailto:wholehealthawarenes\ s@...<mailto:wholehealthawareness@...>>>> wrote: Hi Anne, Just the nature of volatile oils evaporating at body temperature gives them an expanding, dispersing, and rising characteristic. So while we cannot inhibit the effect we can definitely balance out the energetic by using something with a cooling draining characteristic. The fact that you have a problem with burping when you take something that contains volatiles (in normal amounts) is indicative to your digestion not flowing freely in a downward direction. This may be rooted in several different things. Some type of obstruction may be present. Do not let this alarm you. The " obstruction " could be physical mass (tumor; very bad) impaction (piece of cake), constriction (piece of cake). It can be chronically (constitutionally) or acutely (enviromental: diet and lifestyle, stressors, etc.) " energetic " . Believe it or not, it could be emotionally based. If you are use to holding your breath or holding your words in fear of whatever someone else might think or react, or holding your normal elimination processes for convenience, you can set up an automatic physical stasis that would make you predisposed for reduced flow. The solution is dependent on the underlying cause of the condition. -Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: vanadeux<mailto:vanadeux@...<mailto:vanadeux@...><mailto:v\ anadeux@...<mailto:vanadeux@...>><mailto:vanadeux@btintern\ et.com<mailto:vanadeux@...><mailto:vanadeux@...<mailto:van\ adeux@...>>>> To: gallstones <mailto:gallstones ><mailto:gallstones@\ <mailto:gallstones >><mailto:gallstones@group\ s.com<mailto:gallstones ><mailto:gallstones <mailt\ o:gallstones >>><mailto:gallstones <mailto:gallsto\ nes ><mailto:gallstones <mailto:gallstones@gr\ oups.com>><mailto:gallstones <mailto:gallstones ><\ mailto:gallstones <mailto:gallstones >>>> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 6:01 AM Subject: thanks Dave your reply is very interesting and valid..I understand what you are saying about the different qualities and enregies of herbs etc..ie..the rising quality, or the downward energy.. I wonder if there is any way to reduce the upward effects of the terpenes, as they obviously have their benefits ... many thanks ANNE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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