iodine+armour+cortef, was Re: good iodine link

[Guest guest]

Cortef actually helps with sleep. Tired but wired means low cortisol. I think it's best to use cortef 4X a day. Any probs means you need to add something else like thyroid meds and DHEA. I also think you "can't increase Armour without going hyper" b/c you need to dose cortef 4x a day, and not take everything b4 2pm!!!!

Gracia

>I'm also on Cortef (15mg). The Natural Thyroid Hormones Adrenal >group has a lot of good info on dosing Cortef. I started out on 20mg >4x/day using Safe Uses of Cortisol approach but had to adjust due to >sleep problems.

Thanks for this info. I will check out the above group. The Cortef doesn't seem to be doing anything for me. I'm really tired and still have occasional pulses of 41 (!)--usual pulse around 55. I can't increase my Armour from 30mg. without getting hyper. And I've decreased my iodine (Iosol) to under 10 mgs. My alt med doc prescribes the Cortef twice daily, the last dose being at 2 pm., so I haven't had much trouble sleeping. I'm currently increasing to 15 mg. am and 10 mg. at 2 (was on 10 am and 5 at 2). I'm also supplementing from Vital Nutrients with their Rhodiola and Adrenal Support products. I don't yet see much help from these either, but I know that takes time.

Thanks again for your thoughts. Always welcome!

Dahlia

No virus found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.9/490 - Release Date: 10/20/2006

[Guest guest]

what it means is that the adrenals spend all day trying to meet the body's demands. By night time they might overshoot the mark. Feed the adrenal glands throughout the day if you want to allow them to rest/heal. Jefferies had it exactly right.

Gracia

not sure that it matters, but to expand on the thought...doesn't "wired but tired" usually mean low cortisol in the morning but high cortisol at night? Being low cortisol all the time just left me "tired", but not wired. In the natural rhythm of cortisol release in the body, it is highest in the morning, rises again in the late afternoon, and falls toward evening. Low morning cortisol is an indicator that the adrenals are depleted. People with stressful lives and tired adrenals often have low morning cortisol and high evening cortisol—they're "wired but tired" at night and can't get out of bed in the morning. Gur A, Remzi C et al, "Cortisol and hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis hormones in follicular phase women with fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome and the effect of depressive symptoms on these hormones," Arthritis Research and Therapy 2003 Vol 6 No 3.cindi>> > > > Cortef actually helps with sleep. Tired but wired means low cortisol. I think it's best to use cortef 4X a day. Any probs means you need to add something else like thyroid meds and DHEA. I also think you "can't increase Armour without going hyper" b/c you need to dose cortef 4x a day, and not take everything b4 2pm!!!!

No virus found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.9/490 - Release Date: 10/20/2006

[Guest guest]

no I think adrenal fatigue should respond to lots of vitamin Bs, C, CLO, licorice and maybe proper thyroid treatment. All that probly kept me alive for a few years, but it never healed me.

Gracia

that i would agree with. so you would say "adrenal insufficiency" (Jefferies) is always the same as "adrenal fatigue?"cindi>> > what it means is that the adrenals spend all day trying to meet the body's demands. By night time they might overshoot the mark. Feed the adrenal glands throughout the day if you want to allow them to rest/heal. Jefferies had it exactly right.

No virus found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.9/490 - Release Date: 10/20/2006

[Guest guest]

Could you please tell me what are the adrenal antibodies are called? What

is the test called? Thank you.

Amy

cindi22595 wrote:

and i would add in bed by 10 and no stress (even possible?)...and

some

other things...but I agree that sometimes these remedies don't

work...and especially if adrenal antibodies are present perhaps. I

don't know if I would say taking cortisol replacement for life

is "healing" anything, but it definitely is a good treatment just like

Armour if needed.

[Guest guest]

Posted by: "Gracia" circe@... graciabee

Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:13 pm (PST)

>Cortef actually helps with sleep. Tired but wired means low cortisol. I think it's best to use cortef 4X a day. >Any probs means you need to add something else like thyroid meds and DHEA. I also think you "can't >increase Armour without going hyper" b/c you need to dose cortef 4x a day, and not take everything b4 >2pm!!!!>Gracia

Hi Gracia,

What dosing schedule/amount would you recommend for Cortef? I'm not wired but tired, just tired--pulse today 50.

>I think adrenal fatigue should respond to lots of vitamin Bs, C, CLO, licorice and maybe proper thyroid >treatment.

What dose/form of licorice?

thanks so much,

Dahlia

[Guest guest]

>From: " cindi22595 " <cindi22595@...>

>and i would add in bed by 10 and no stress (even possible?)...and some

>other things...but I agree that sometimes these remedies don't

>work...and especially if adrenal antibodies are present perhaps. I

>don't know if I would say taking cortisol replacement for life

>is " healing " anything, but it definitely is a good treatment just like

>Armour if needed.

>cindi

Sometimes treatment is better than " healing. "

If one has an adrenal problem, in order to " heal " it, the cause matters.

Too much stress, that's relatively a simple cure. Just get rid of the

stress.

On the other hand, if it's antibodies, mercury, PBB, PCB, TB, AIDS, Lyme's,

or some unindentified problem, the " healing " is a bit more difficult, and

who's even going to test you to find out why your adrenals are in bad shape?

If it's mercury, do you need to go through the stress of having all your

amalgams removed? Not everyone who does that winds up better off, and it's

quite expensive.

Skipper

_________________________________________________________________

All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial!

http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000002msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.win\

dowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail

[Guest guest]

>From: " cindi22595 " <cindi22595@...>

>so you would say " adrenal insufficiency " (Jefferies) is always the same

>as " adrenal fatigue? "

>cindi

The same treatment might work, but they are different.

Some people can be adrenal insufficient in a stress free environment. Ever

watch House, MD? One patient was in a wheelchair, he got a shot of cortisol

and he could walk and talk for the first time in years. He had severe

's, which causes that kind of collapse.

Mild adrenal insufficiency causes milder collapse. Some people have adrenal

fatigue because they keep themselves under stress 24/7. Other's simply

never have adequate cortisol production.

YOu can spend years and thousands of dollars trying to heal the adrenals and

never succeed. Which is why treatment can be much more practical and

important.

Skipper

_________________________________________________________________

Try Search Survival Kits: Fix up your home and better handle your cash with

Live Search!

http://imagine-windowslive.com/search/kits/default.aspx?kit=improve & locale=en-US\

& source=hmtagline

[Guest guest]

Thanks for writing your thoughts Skipper. I suspect I've had low cortisol

issues all my life. I'm so happy that I can test now, & treat accordingly.

If I hadn't tested on my own, I would not have learned that I was in stage

7. I took my results to the doctor, who promptly prescribed HC in physiological

dose.

Amy

Skipper Beers wrote:

Some people can be adrenal insufficient in a stress free environment.

Ever

watch House, MD? One patient was in a wheelchair, he got a shot of cortisol

and he could walk and talk for the first time in years. He had severe

's, which causes that kind of collapse.

Mild adrenal insufficiency causes milder collapse. Some people have adrenal

fatigue because they keep themselves under stress 24/7. Other's simply

never have adequate cortisol production.

YOu can spend years and thousands of dollars trying to heal the adrenals

and

never succeed. Which is why treatment can be much more practical and

important.

Skipper

[Guest guest]

>From: srapp785@...

> >Cortef actually helps with sleep. Tired but wired means low cortisol. I

>think it's best to use cortef 4X a day. >Any probs means you need to add

>something else like thyroid meds and DHEA. I also think you " can't

> >increase Armour without going hyper " b/c you need to dose cortef 4x a

>day, and not take everything b4 >2pm!!!!

> >Gracia

Sometimes what's needed is Melatonin. It helps with sleep.

One might think if they need it, it's because they have too much cortisol at

night, but I don't necessarily agree. Too many toxins in the environment

these days to think anything is ever a simple matter.

Melatonin is known as a sleep aid, but it's also a powerful antioxidant.

Be careful when giving it to children, as it can cause delayed puberty.

http://www.diagnose-me.com/treat/T77232.html

However, they found that if the cells were first incubated with melatonin -

a powerful antioxidant and heavy-metal-chelating agent - they were protected

from these damaging effects. In fact, despite being exposed to toxic doses

of mercury, the cells treated with melatonin often showed metabolic status

comparable to that of mercury-free cells.

These results provide strong experimental evidence that mercury toxicity may

be involved in Alzheimer's development and that melatonin shows a marked

potential to neutralize this toxic-induced pathology, by boosting

antioxidant defense and binding to heavy metals.

Skipper

_________________________________________________________________

Add a contact to Windows Live Messenger for a chance to win a free

trip!

http://www.imagine-windowslive.com/minisites//default.aspx?locale=en-us & hmt\

agline

[Guest guest]

I love licorice and eat it whenever. I take cortef 5mg 4X a day. Now on Iodoral I find that I can space cortef a bit more and take last dose around 10-11pm.

Gracia

Posted by: "Gracia" circe@... graciabee

Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:13 pm (PST)

>Cortef actually helps with sleep. Tired but wired means low cortisol. I think it's best to use cortef 4X a day. >Any probs means you need to add something else like thyroid meds and DHEA. I also think you "can't >increase Armour without going hyper" b/c you need to dose cortef 4x a day, and not take everything b4 >2pm!!!!>Gracia

Hi Gracia,

What dosing schedule/amount would you recommend for Cortef? I'm not wired but tired, just tired--pulse today 50.

>I think adrenal fatigue should respond to lots of vitamin Bs, C, CLO, licorice and maybe proper thyroid >treatment.

What dose/form of licorice?

thanks so much,

Dahlia

No virus found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.9/490 - Release Date: 10/20/2006

[Guest guest]

yeah true.

hertoghe says that cortisol and melatonin have a relationship, work with each other somehow. Melatonin is also implicated in preventing some cancers.

Gracia

>From: srapp785juno> >Cortef actually helps with sleep. Tired but wired means low cortisol. I>think it's best to use cortef 4X a day. >Any probs means you need to add>something else like thyroid meds and DHEA. I also think you "can't> >increase Armour without going hyper" b/c you need to dose cortef 4x a>day, and not take everything b4 >2pm!!!!> >GraciaSometimes what's needed is Melatonin. It helps with sleep.One might think if they need it, it's because they have too much cortisol at night, but I don't necessarily agree. Too many toxins in the environment these days to think anything is ever a simple matter.Melatonin is known as a sleep aid, but it's also a powerful antioxidant.Be careful when giving it to children, as it can cause delayed puberty.http://www.diagnose-me.com/treat/T77232.htmlHowever, they found that if the cells were first incubated with melatonin - a powerful antioxidant and heavy-metal-chelating agent - they were protected from these damaging effects. In fact, despite being exposed to toxic doses of mercury, the cells treated with melatonin often showed metabolic status comparable to that of mercury-free cells.These results provide strong experimental evidence that mercury toxicity may be involved in Alzheimer's development and that melatonin shows a marked potential to neutralize this toxic-induced pathology, by boosting antioxidant defense and binding to heavy metals.Skipper__________________________________________________________Add a contact to Windows Live Messenger for a chance to win a free trip! http://www.imagine-windowslive.com/minisites//default.aspx?locale=en-us & hmtagline

No virus found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.9/490 - Release Date: 10/20/2006

[Guest guest]

>From: " Gracia " <circe@...>

> I love licorice and eat it whenever. I take cortef 5mg 4X a day. Now

>on Iodoral I find that I can space cortef a bit more and take last dose

>around 10-11pm.

You mean the licorice candy? Even black licorice doesn't admit to having

any significant amount of licorice root in it.

Often Cortef is enough, but for some who need more aldosterone (for

additonal sodium retention), licorice can be used, but it's trickier that

the pharmaceutical alternative (Florinef.)

Skipper

> Gracia

>

>

> Posted by: " Gracia " circe@... graciabee

> Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:13 pm (PST)

>

> >Cortef actually helps with sleep. Tired but wired means low cortisol. I

>think it's best to use cortef 4X a day. >Any probs means you need to add

>something else like thyroid meds and DHEA. I also think you " can't

> >increase Armour without going hyper " b/c you need to dose cortef 4x a

>day, and not take everything b4 >2pm!!!!

> >Gracia

>

>

> Hi Gracia,

> What dosing schedule/amount would you recommend for Cortef? I'm not

>wired but tired, just tired--pulse today 50.

>

> >I think adrenal fatigue should respond to lots of vitamin Bs, C, CLO,

>licorice and maybe proper thyroid >treatment.

>

> What dose/form of licorice?

>

> thanks so much,

> Dahlia

>

>

>

>No virus found in this outgoing message.

>Checked by AVG Free Edition.

>Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.9/490 - Release Date: 10/20/2006

_________________________________________________________________

All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial!

http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000002msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.win\

dowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail

[Guest guest]

A word of caution on supplementing with Melatonin. If

you have Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD), and live

in an area that has long winters (such as Nebraska

where I lived for 20 years), be very careful about

taking MORE melatonin as your body is already putting

out too much as a result of not having the amount of

sunlight necessary to shut it off.

Massive, severe depression can result from

supplementing Melatonin under these conditions. Even

though insomnia can be a part of SAD, it's not due to

having a lack of melatonin. I was an insomniac for 20

years WHILE having SAD and making too much Melatonin.

Also, some SAD can even manifest in the summertime as

there is a summer version of it. So be sure you don't

have SAD before supplementing with Melatonin.

--- Skipper Beers <lsb149@...> wrote:

> Sometimes what's needed is Melatonin. It helps with

> sleep.

>

> One might think if they need it, it's because they

> have too much cortisol at

> night, but I don't necessarily agree. Too many

> toxins in the environment

> these days to think anything is ever a simple

> matter.

>

> Melatonin is known as a sleep aid, but it's also a

> powerful antioxidant.

>

> Be careful when giving it to children, as it can

> cause delayed puberty.

>

> http://www.diagnose-me.com/treat/T77232.html

> However, they found that if the cells were first

> incubated with melatonin -

> a powerful antioxidant and heavy-metal-chelating

> agent - they were protected

> from these damaging effects. In fact, despite being

> exposed to toxic doses

> of mercury, the cells treated with melatonin often

> showed metabolic status

> comparable to that of mercury-free cells.

>

> These results provide strong experimental evidence

> that mercury toxicity may

> be involved in Alzheimer's development and that

> melatonin shows a marked

> potential to neutralize this toxic-induced

> pathology, by boosting

> antioxidant defense and binding to heavy metals.

>

>

>

> Skipper

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

thanks all for the really great info on adrenals, thyroid and cortef. I will definitely be checking out all the links and good thoughts, and report back on progress if any.

Dahlia

[Guest guest]

I've been on 60mcg of T3 twice a day for 10 years. Considering most people need a few grains of armour this is an enormous amount. It does make me wonder if I need more though!-------------------------- Perhaps the HC "uncovered" latent hypothyroidism (over-stressed a barely adequate thyroid function) -- and that is now causing the weight gain ? Perhaps you needed both HC and thyroid replacement ? At 07:54 PM 10/25/2006, g siddiqui wrote: > >I went on physiological dosing 5mg 4times a day. >Thus began 20 lbs of weight gain, even though I stopped >months ago. Does this mean I didn't need it? > > >----------- --------- --------- ---- > >My old endo told me that I didn't want to go on HC because I'd >gain weight. > >Not the case with physiological dosing, but really, when you're >bedridden, who the h@ll cares? >

> > > > > >

Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

[Guest guest]

>From: " cindi22595 " <cindi22595@...>

>ok, I see in his book that even though Jefferies knew a higher dinner

>dose might cause insomnia, he said lowering it was not " always "

>desirable because of needing levels to be building for the AM...and he

>even points out a nighttime dose can cause " persistent renal function "

>during sleep. But he does allows for the nighttime dose to be

>decreased or omitted entirely without difficulty if the patient has

>sufficient adrenal reserve.

>

>but getting back to taking a higher AM dose to mimic natural

>rhythms...it still looks like to me that if a person doesn't mind

>differing amounts of medication at each dose time...just taking more

>during the AM serves the same purpose that Jefferies was trying to

>accomplish by keeping the dinner dose higher. comments?

>cindi

That depends. If the adrenals are geared to produce more cortisol in the

AM, are you suppressing more by dosing that way? That's when they want to

work the hardest, so if you want to keep them working at that time, giving

higher doses at that time may not be the best idea.

Also, excess cortisol secreted or taken all at once is more likely to cause

weight gain. in " Adrenal Fatigue " explained even those with low

cortisol could have cortisol weight gain due to the timing of the

secretions.

I guess if your adrenals are totally shot, it might make more sense to

mimick the natural rhythm, as then you're not expecting your adrenals to

ever work properly on their own. HC isn't always a forever need.

As for renal function, low cortisol causes more frequent urination, so one

may actually get up less at night on HC, in spite of what Jeffries said.

Skipper

_________________________________________________________________

Stay in touch with old friends and meet new ones with Windows Live Spaces

http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.\

live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create & wx_url=/friends.aspx & mkt=en-us

[Guest guest]

This page is helpful to explain t3-t4 conversion with Armour

http://www.drumlib.com/dp/000016.htm

Amy

JD wrote:

-----------------------------------

> In the Cytomel (T3) drug facts I read that 25 mcg was equal to approximately

1 grain of Armour so that 60 would just be 2 1/3 grains of Armour which is

not considered a high dose at all.

[Guest guest]

> This page is helpful to explain t3-t4 conversion with Armour

> http://www.drumlib.com/dp/000016.htm

> Amy

Interesting page. For myself I'd multiply the

" potency " of the T3 by 3 instead of 4.

120 mg (2 grains) Armour is roughly equivalent for me

to 125 mg T4, or to 112 mg T4 + 5-10 mg Cytomel.

That's held true for me for about 10 yrs now.

Previous Synthroid to Armour conversion charts I've seen

have been sorely conservative in terms of how much Armour was

needed.

Carol