Re: How does Iodine Aggravate Hashimotos?

[Guest guest]

I keep thinking about Flechas' response to my question on thyroid antibody levels (see below). He said that they watched antibody levels carefully for several years when they first started supplementing with iodine and did not notice any chances. They were essentially stable.

I wish we could get ahold of these results. Were the levels stable for everyone??? Or did they go up for some and down for others??? Is there an individual difference issue here???

Zoe

Zoe: How does iodine supplementation affect thyroid antibody levels?

Flechas: We watched the antibody levels carefully for several years when we first started supplementing with iodine. We did not notice any changes. They were essentially stable. The antibody levels are not a result of iodine. Iodine actually stabilizes the internal structure of the thyroid gland in both Graves and Hashimoto's.

Autoimmunity is an effect of methylation -- not iodine levels. If you increase the methyl groups, the antibodies will drop. (Gave example of someone with TPOab = 900. Gave methyl groups (e.g., 1 teaspoon per day of tri-methylglycine). Antibodies dropped to 100 in one month. Gave a couple more similar examples.)

[Guest guest]

I'm assuming your statement refers to those already with Hashi's?

The Thyroid basically says on this " contradictory results have been

obtained when susceptible patients with Hashimoto's thyroiditis were

exposed to a moderately increased iodine intake " ...and the book

cites studies with varying results...some not going hypothyroid,

some going euthyroid, and some no change.

It does mention in one study that some of those with antibodies (but

not hypo)developed hypothyroidism, but those patients had a TSH of

over 3 before the iodine. Sounds like to me they were already hypo,

but it does say these patients' antibodies didn't rise...so I guess

it means their TSH rose. And in yet another study, there was an

increase in serum T4 and T3.

So basically, with lymphocytic thyroiditis...the results are apt to

be anything...which I guess is why Brownstein mentioned that careful

monitoring.

It would be interesting to have a breakdown on their studies as to

how many had rise in TSH, rise or decrease in Frees, etc.

I must say Flechas' statement about iodine stablizing the internal

structure of the thyroid gland in autoimmune thyroid disease is

rather odd in light of all the studies on the subject.

Oh...on Graves, The Thyroid does have some info on that...and many

who had RAI then later went hypo after iodine treatment, but on

amounts larger than 50 mg....and they returned to euthyroidism after

iodine withdrawal.

I need to read this book some on the iodine information..there is so

much info...but a bit technical for me.

Cindi

>

> I keep thinking about Flechas' response to my question on thyroid

antibody levels (see below). He said that they watched antibody

levels carefully for several years when they first started

supplementing with iodine and did not notice any chances. They were

essentially stable.

>

> I wish we could get ahold of these results. Were the levels

stable for everyone??? Or did they go up for some and down for

others??? Is there an individual difference issue here???

>

> Zoe

>

>

> Zoe: How does iodine supplementation affect thyroid antibody

levels?

>

>

>

> Flechas: We watched the antibody levels carefully for several

years when we first started supplementing with iodine. We did not

notice any changes. They were essentially stable. The antibody

levels are not a result of iodine. Iodine actually stabilizes the

internal structure of the thyroid gland in both Graves and

Hashimoto's.

>

>

>

> Autoimmunity is an effect of methylation -- not iodine

levels. If you increase the methyl groups, the antibodies will

drop. (Gave example of someone with TPOab = 900. Gave methyl

groups (e.g., 1 teaspoon per day of tri-methylglycine). Antibodies

dropped to 100 in one month. Gave a couple more similar examples.)

>

[Guest guest]

>From: " Zoe & " <ZOEA@...>

> Autoimmunity is an effect of methylation -- not iodine levels. If

>you increase the methyl groups, the antibodies will drop. (Gave example of

>someone with TPOab = 900. Gave methyl groups (e.g., 1 teaspoon per day of

>tri-methylglycine). Antibodies dropped to 100 in one month. Gave a couple

>more similar examples.)

I haven't grasped methylation yet. I somehow relate it to sulfur. A

metabolism which mercury messes up. I don't know why I relate it to sulfur,

but I think those with mercury issues need more sulfur.

I don't know if antibodies are related to mercury.

I do know that above Flechas is saying increasing the methyl group can lower

antibodies.

Selenium, which has sulfur can also lower antobodies, as well as bind

mercury and make it safer. (Is selenium in the methyl group?)

Googling the question it does appear to be in the methyl group -

http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/99/25/15932

" Essential micronutrient selenium is excreted into the urine and/or expired

after being transformed to methylated metabolites.

Because Se of toxic doses is known to be excreted into urine in the form of

trimethylselenonium ion (trimethylated Se) and then into breath in the form

of dimethylselenide (dimethylated Se), the two urinary metabolites,

selenosugar and trimethylated Se, can be good indicators for the Se demand

within the required to low-toxic range and beyond the toxic dose. "

********************************************************

I don't quite understant yet.

Short term doses of corticosteroids have been known to elminate antibodies.

Thyroid medication has been known to lower antibodies.

There may be more than one solution (or maybe increasing the methyl group

consistently works.)

Skipper

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[Guest guest]

>

> I'm assuming your statement refers to those already with Hashi's?

> The Thyroid basically says on this " contradictory results have been

> obtained when susceptible patients with Hashimoto's thyroiditis were

> exposed to a moderately increased iodine intake "

First point, as Gracia always says more is better. (Or at least might

be better in some cases. I only take 2 drops of Lugol's, 12.5 mg of

iodine, not her 50.) Just because the small amount found in vitamins

causes problems, doesn't mean a larger amount of Lugol's or Iodoral

will. Also, the form of iodine might not be the same. What do

vitamin use, is that kelp? Not the best form for everyone.

I know, some people have problems anyway. So, this doesn't mean you

should try it. Just means you don't know what effect the larger doses

of iodine would have on you unless you try.

As for antibodies, sometimes corticosteroids can chase those away,

other times they can't. This does talk about thyroid improvement, and

I have read articles where the antibodies didn't come back -

http://tinyurl.com/uzxtb

We report the case of a 28-year-old man who presented with idiopathic

adrenal insufficiency and subclinical hypothyroidism documented by

elevated basal thyrotropin level with abnormal response to

thyrotropin-releasing hormone administration. Anti-thyroid antibodies

were present in high titer, supporting the diagnosis of Hashimoto's

thyroiditis, and hence of autoimmune polyglandular syndrome type II.

The patient was not submitted to thyroxine therapy, and during

cortisol replacement thyroid function improved, as judged by

normalization of basal and stimulated thyrotropin and elevation of

thyroid hormone levels. Anti-thyroid antibodies titer significantly

diminished, and a short-time withdrawal of corticosteroids was not

followed by elevation of thyrotropin hormone levels. Possible

pathogenetic mechanisms of cortisone-induced remission of

hypothyroidism due to chronic lymphocytic thyroiditis are discussed.

***************************

Also regarding antibodies, creutzfeldt-jakob disease is the same class

of disease as Mad Cow. I found this interesting -

http://jnnp.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/66/2/172

The symptoms and findings for the seven patients presented here are

summarised in table 2. At disease onset the diagnosis of

Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease was suspected in the first female patient

(case 1). The correct diagnosis of Hashimoto's encephalitis was

established later in the course of the disease. The administration of

corticosteroids resulted in a rapid recovery of the patient. The

disease course of this patient attracted our attention and, therefore,

thyroid antibodies were also determined in other patients suspected to

have Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease. As a result of these laboratory

findings and of a hypoechoic thyroid ultrasonogram, Hashimoto's

encephalitis was diagnosed in four other patients (cases 2, 3, 4, and 5).

*************************

I guess if you hunt wild game, and the doc tells you that you have

CWD, you need to be sure you don't have Hashimoto's encephalitis.

Because they could be wrong. Wonder if it's triggered by what they

ate? I wonder how many doctors would have gotten the diagnosis

correct? I guess, the doctors who are wrong simply have their

mistakes in the cemetery and often no one will ever know.

Skipper

[Guest guest]

I don't disagree with you on this.

And like i've previously stated, were there some condition or

unresolved health issue that I thought iodine could address for me

specifically...I'd be more willing to experiment. But at age 51,

and after having suffered many many years with untreated

Hashi's/hypo....and now being quite stable and feeling great....I

have some reluctance to be an iodine Hashi's guinea pig. I am,

however, watching all of yall with quite some interest. :-)

cindi

>

> Just because the small amount found in vitamins

> causes problems, doesn't mean a larger amount of Lugol's or Iodoral

> will. Also, the form of iodine might not be the same. What do

> vitamin use, is that kelp? Not the best form for everyone.

>

> I know, some people have problems anyway. So, this doesn't mean

you

> should try it. Just means you don't know what effect the larger

doses

> of iodine would have on you unless you try.