Re: keratoderma

[Guest guest]

>From: " King's Song " <melanie@...>

>

>This may be a long shot -

>

>I have a 17-year-old son who has really bad keratoderma. His hands and

>especially his feet hold onto all the old dead skin - it's gross. He's

>been like this since he was a toddler. Is there any chance that this is a

>thyroid problem and treatable with iodine? We've discussed it with

>dermatologists over the years, and their solution is always just some kind

>of topical lubrication. My son is adopted, so I really don't know if there

>is a family history. He is biracial, so perhaps it is also something that

>is racially connected.

>

>

It's likely he needs thyroid medication. Yes, iodine could be helpful, but

if it were my child I'd make sure he got on some Armour Thyroid to see what

happens. If this is a thyroid related problem, it's likely he has a lot of

other symptoms.

When it comes to hypothyroidism, not much is a long shot as it can cause

many symptoms.

http://tinyurl.com/k3rl8

Palmoplantar keratoderma (PPK) is a multjetiological disorder

Striking improvement in long standing PPK with thyroid hormones, further

supported that causal relationship was possible between PPK and myxedema.[5]

The patient was put on thyroid hormone (eltroxin 150mgOD) and topical,

keratolytics and steroids, Steady improvement occurred in the form of

disappearance of stiffness of fingers, decrease in thickness, dryness of

skin and disappearance of scales, during 8 months therapy and followup.

**********************

http://tinyurl.com/h2hoj

A 63-year-old female who had been suffering from intractable palmoplantar

keratoderma for 13 years was found to have myxedema. Shortly after

institution of substitution therapy with thyroid hormone there was a

striking improvement in her condition. The possibility of a causal

relationship between hypothyroidism and hyperkeratosis is suggested.

dictionary.com def myxedema - Pathology

a condition characterized by thickening of the skin, blunting of the senses

and intellect, and labored speech, associated with hypothyroidism.

*************************

http://www.thedoctorsdoctor.com/Diseases/generalized_myxedema.htm

Hypothyroidism causes several skin changes. This is one of the most common

occurring as a slight thickening of the skin aorund the eyes, nose, cheeks,

and distal extremities. Rarely, palmoplantar keratoderma may be present.

*************************

Skipper

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[Guest guest]

I don't know anything about keratoderma but if it was my son, I would

probably try doing a loading test on him and see what his saturation

is. I wouldn't want to supplement him unless he was actually

deficient.

Irene

At 02:53 PM 9/28/2006, you wrote:

This may be a long

shot -

I have a 17-year-old son who has really bad

keratoderma. His hands and especially his feet hold onto all the

old dead skin - it's gross. He's been like this since he was a

toddler. Is there any chance that this is a thyroid problem and

treatable with iodine? We've discussed it with dermatologists over

the years, and their solution is always just some kind of topical

lubrication. My son is adopted, so I really don't know if there is

a family history. He is biracial, so perhaps it is also something

that is racially connected.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the input Skipper and Irene. It may turn out that me having breast cancer is the best thing that ever happened to my son! This bothers him so much, and it is quite painful when his feet become cracked and bleeding. I'm pretty sure everybody in my family is iodine deficient at this point. There is nothing in our diet that has any iodine whatsoever in it, so I'm not sure what purpose doing the loading test would serve - plus you have to wait 4 weeks for the results. My son is not at all "fat and dumb" as the article suggests - if we raise his IQ 15 points we might not be able to stand him! Nevertheless, I would imagine that if he is iodine deficient there are other symptoms as well, but he probably doesn't know the difference because, like I said, he's ALWAYS had "crusty toes."

I know there's been quite a bit of discussion about the Armor, but I wasn't really paying attention - Can you give me a brief summary of what it is and what it does? Is it really something you'd want to start on at 17 as opposed to something like Iodoral that would just be a supplement? What do you think my chances are of finding a local doctor that knows about iodine supplementation? Do you think that maybe Dr. Brownstein would be able to recommend someone?

As for my daughters - My 21-year-old has always had headaches and is freezing all the time. My 18-year-old wears sweatshirts all summer and could possibly benefit from an extra 15 points added to her IQ (NO WAY - I DID NOT JUST SAY THAT)! I saw a place to buy Iodoral by the case, and I'm thinking maybe I should do that so all six of us can just get started on this stuff.

RE: keratoderma

It's likely he needs thyroid medication. Yes, iodine could be helpful, but if it were my child I'd make sure he got on some Armour Thyroid to see what happens. If this is a thyroid related problem, it's likely he has a lot of other symptoms.When it comes to hypothyroidism, not much is a long shot as it can cause many symptoms.

[Guest guest]

>From: " King's Song " <melanie@...>

>This bothers him so much, and it is quite painful when his feet become

>cracked and bleeding.

My wife's feet were ice cold and felt like calluses until she got her

thyroid treated. Now they feel like real skin.

>I'm pretty sure everybody in my family is iodine deficient at this point.

There is nothing in our diet that has any iodine whatsoever in it, so I'm

not sure what purpose doing the loading test would serve - plus you have to

wait 4 weeks for the results.

The loading test can probably wait 4 weeks as you say. But, you could be

getting more iodine than you think. There is iodine in dairy products, more

if they use it to clean the equipment (some people use bromine instead I've

heard), then there's iodized salt, and if you buy produce at a regular

grocery store it comes from all over the world, so there could be some in

that. It is quite hard to tell for sure how much you are getting.

>My son is not at all " fat and dumb " as the article suggests - if we raise

>his IQ 15 points we might not be able to stand him!

Many hypothyroid people are quite intelligent. And they're not all fat. In

the case of childhood hypothyroidism, it's not uncommon for them to lose

their appetite, stop growing and get really thin. That's what happened to

my son, and it took a while to figure it out since his symptoms were

different than ours and his TSH which we had taken simply to rule out

hypothyrodiism was 2.2. We knew TSH wasn't a perfect indicator, but we

didn't recognize any of the symptoms in him because it affects people

differently.

>I know there's been quite a bit of discussion about the Armor, but I wasn't

>really paying attention - Can you give me a brief summary of what it is and

>what it does? Is it really something you'd want to start on at 17 as

>opposed to something like Iodoral that would just be a supplement?

If hypothyroid, the fastest result would be to start him on Thyroid

medication . I think of Armour as being the best choice. It contains both

T4 and T3 and has been around a very long time. Synthroid wasn't helpful to

me at all, and many have that experience. It also takes longer to take

effect.

It is true, if he is iodine deficiency, that would correct the hypothyroid

problem. But, it could take a lot longer and not that many people are hypo

due to the iodine defiency. I guess you could try the iodine first, but

with Armour you'd be more likely to see improvement within a short time.

>As for my daughters - My 21-year-old has always had headaches and is

>freezing all the time.

My daughter had the coldest hands you ever felt until she went on Armour.

Low thyroid causes poor circulation and a weak heart so it's hard for the

peripheral areas to get enough blood flow to keep them warm and soft.

>My 18-year-old wears sweatshirts all summer and could possibly benefit from

>an extra 15 points added to her IQ (NO WAY - I DID NOT JUST SAY THAT)! I

>saw a place to buy Iodoral by the case, and I'm thinking maybe I should do

>that so all six of us can just get started on this stuff.

No harm in that if you keep an eye on them. It does have a negative effect

on some. Lugol's Solution is a lot cheaper if money's an issue.

Skipper

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[Guest guest]

One more thing - my son with the keratoderma has always had insomnia. Is that a symptom of a thyroid problem?

Re: keratoderma

[Guest guest]

>From: " King's Song " <melanie@...>

>One more thing - my son with the keratoderma has always had insomnia. Is

>that a symptom of a thyroid problem?

Sleep apnea, snoring commonly hypo problems. In hypos the tongue swells

particularly at night part of the cause.

As for insomnia, isn't he 17? I kind of remember sleep difficulties at that

age, I don't think it's uncommon. Especially if they drink Mountain Dew, or

eat chocolate (which has caffeine.)

Skipper

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Skipper, he did not sleep through the night at all until when he was 7 we finally gave him melatonin. I am a very sound sleeper, but he often tells me that he has been up all night because he could not sleep. At any rate, it's more than just a phase with him.

Re: keratoderma

>From: "King's Song" <melaniekingssong>>One more thing - my son with the keratoderma has always had insomnia. Is >that a symptom of a thyroid problem?Sleep apnea, snoring commonly hypo problems. In hypos the tongue swells particularly at night part of the cause.As for insomnia, isn't he 17? I kind of remember sleep difficulties at that age, I don't think it's uncommon. Especially if they drink Mountain Dew, or eat chocolate (which has caffeine.)Skipper__________________________________________________________Get today's hot entertainment gossip http://movies.msn.com/movies/hotgossip

[Guest guest]

You brought up another interesting point - my son went through a phase when he was maybe 7 or so that he would just stand and cry because he was so skinny, and he hated it that his pants were baggy. I don't remember him ever not really having an appetite though.

Re: keratoderma

Many hypothyroid people are quite intelligent. And they're not all fat. In the case of childhood hypothyroidism, it's not uncommon for them to lose their appetite, stop growing and get really thin. That's what happened to my son, and it took a while to figure it out since his symptoms were different than ours and his TSH which we had taken simply to rule out hypothyrodiism was 2.2. We knew TSH wasn't a perfect indicator, but we didn't recognize any of the symptoms in him because it affects people differently.

[Guest guest]

>From: " King's Song " <melanie@...>

>Skipper, he did not sleep through the night at all until when he was 7 we

>finally gave him melatonin. I am a very sound sleeper, but he often tells

>me that he has been up all night because he could not sleep. At any rate,

>it's more than just a phase with him.

My son was somewhat the same way. He has to take melatonin to sleep even

now, thought it's not nearly as bad as what you describe for your son.

You might do some saliva testing for cortisol. If it's elevated at night,

that could answer the question, as high cortisol suppresses melatonin. I

should mention, sleeping i a dark room is necessary for melatonin production

also.

If thyroid is low, many of the hormones are often out of balance.

The thyroid hormone may be what he needs to sleep.

My wife used to wake me up 3 times every night. I was going to a weekend

seminar in Chicago once, and one thing I was elated about was there'd be no

wife to wake me up, and I'd actually remember what it felt like to sleep the

whole night through again. It didn't happen, I still woke up 3 times

anyway. I had sleep apnea until my thyroid was treated. If you son dozes

off a little, then wakes up and can't go back to sleep, it could be sleep

apnea and he just doesn't know why he wakes up. I didn't.

With low thyroid, there's poor muscle tone in the throat muscles, the tongue

swells especially at night, and sometimes the thyroid swells a bit. All

these things cause apnea.

Many hypos have low cortisol. But, some have elevated adrenaline to

compensate and this causes high cortisol levels. High cortisol pushes out

magnesium, which is bad as magnesium helps people relax.

I would definitely give him iodine, but I would also get him on thyroid

medication.

My wife went to six doctors, who listened to her symptoms, ran thyroid labs

because they knew that was the problem, then couldn't help her because her

labs were normal. Fortunately, we found a good thyroid doctor in South

Bend, IN.

Skipper

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[Guest guest]

>From: " King's Song " <melanie@...>

>Skipper, he did not sleep through the night at all until when he was 7 we

>finally gave him melatonin. I am a very sound sleeper, but he often tells

>me that he has been up all night because he could not sleep. At any rate,

>it's more than just a phase with him.

My son was somewhat the same way. He has to take melatonin to sleep even

now, thought it's not nearly as bad as what you describe for your son.

You might do some saliva testing for cortisol. If it's elevated at night,

that could answer the question, as high cortisol suppresses melatonin. I

should mention, sleeping i a dark room is necessary for melatonin production

also.

If thyroid is low, many of the hormones are often out of balance.

The thyroid hormone may be what he needs to sleep.

My wife used to wake me up 3 times every night. I was going to a weekend

seminar in Chicago once, and one thing I was elated about was there'd be no

wife to wake me up, and I'd actually remember what it felt like to sleep the

whole night through again. It didn't happen, I still woke up 3 times

anyway. I had sleep apnea until my thyroid was treated. If you son dozes

off a little, then wakes up and can't go back to sleep, it could be sleep

apnea and he just doesn't know why he wakes up. I didn't.

With low thyroid, there's poor muscle tone in the throat muscles, the tongue

swells especially at night, and sometimes the thyroid swells a bit. All

these things cause apnea.

Many hypos have low cortisol. But, some have elevated adrenaline to

compensate and this causes high cortisol levels. High cortisol pushes out

magnesium, which is bad as magnesium helps people relax.

I would definitely give him iodine, but I would also get him on thyroid

medication.

My wife went to six doctors, who listened to her symptoms, ran thyroid labs

because they knew that was the problem, then couldn't help her because her

labs were normal. Fortunately, we found a good thyroid doctor in South

Bend, IN.

Skipper

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[Guest guest]

Skipper Beers wrote:

>> From: " King's Song " <melanie@...>

>>

>

>

>> This may be a long shot -

>>

>> I have a 17-year-old son who has really bad keratoderma. His hands and

>> especially his feet hold onto all the old dead skin - it's gross. He's

>> been like this since he was a toddler. Is there any chance that this is a

>> thyroid problem and treatable with iodine? We've discussed it with

>> dermatologists over the years, and their solution is always just some kind

>> of topical lubrication. My son is adopted, so I really don't know if there

>> is a family history. He is biracial, so perhaps it is also something that

>> is racially connected.

>>

>>

>>

There is also this:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=7\

379593 & dopt=Abstract

Thyroid problems are also commonly related to auto-immune disease, which

can have

multiple causes and are very hard to ferret out. The root cause to date

seems to be zonulin,

which opens the gut-blood barrier. Zonulin production is triggered by

IgA allergies (gluten, casein),

or gut bacteria that your body doesn't like. Malabsorption of nutrients

is common in these cases too.

I kind of think iodine by itself might help alot either because of lack

of iodine (common)

or because it helps the gut dysbiosis (?). But there are a lot of other good

avenues to explore!

I have a bit of that problem myself, and a good topical solution is

an alpha-glycolic solution. I use Healthy Skin by Neutrogena. Gets rid

of that skin that your body for some reason or another won't let go of.

Also good for sun-damaged skin.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

I believe there is reference somewhere - I know Lynn mentioned it from her appt with Dr. Flechas - that he puts his BC patients on 100 mgs of Iodoral. I see you are on 75 mgs - maybe 100 would be better. I too have some issues that have not resolved completely as I had hoped either.

Steph

Re: keratoderma

I have been taking 75 mgs of Iodoral for over a month now and have seen some results regarding my breast cancer, though not the miracle cure I was hoping for! Of course, I am doing many other things to combat the breast cancer as well. I will let you know if my son's situation improves using the Iodoral.

[Guest guest]

Steph, I'll go ahead and try 100 mgs. Is it possible though that my body isn't using the Iodine I'm already giving it?

Re: keratoderma

I believe there is reference somewhere - I know Lynn mentioned it from her appt with Dr. Flechas - that he puts his BC patients on 100 mgs of Iodoral. I see you are on 75 mgs - maybe 100 would be better. I too have some issues that have not resolved completely as I had hoped either.

..

[Guest guest]

Maybe. I am thinking that the Buffered C may be a good thing to add. I'll have to pull out my Iodine book and look at what Dr. B says but I believe it helps get it into the cells. I have taken Thorne and Allergy Research brands from Dr. B. I notice that I feel more "toxic" when I don't take it. I missed about a week of it and now I started again and feel like the toxins are moving out again. Hard to explain but I think it may help you.

Steph

Re: keratoderma

I believe there is reference somewhere - I know Lynn mentioned it from her appt with Dr. Flechas - that he puts his BC patients on 100 mgs of Iodoral. I see you are on 75 mgs - maybe 100 would be better. I too have some issues that have not resolved completely as I had hoped either.

..

[Guest guest]

Steph,

My nutritionist has me taking 6000 mg a day of buffered C that is compounded in her pharmacy. Until she started me on this less than 2 weeks ago, I was just taking cheap vitamin C. I will up my dosage of Iodoral and see what happens. I figure since I've already been taking 75 mg for several weeks there's not much chance of any kind of reaction.

Re: keratoderma

Maybe. I am thinking that the Buffered C may be a good thing to add. I'll have to pull out my Iodine book and look at what Dr. B says but I believe it helps get it into the cells. I have taken Thorne and Allergy Research brands from Dr. B. I notice that I feel more "toxic" when I don't take it. I missed about a week of it and now I started again and feel like the toxins are moving out again. Hard to explain but I think it may help you.

Steph

..

[Guest guest]

>From: " King's Song " <melanie@...>

>Cindi, no, I have not had any thyroid testing done on my son. I've never

>found a doctor that was interested in considering that he needed anything

>other than lotion of some kind. My leaning at this point is toward

>trusting my nutritionist since I haven't found doctors to be too helpful.

Well, that's one point of view. However, if it's a thyroid problem,

conditions the thyroid problem causes clear up really fast, especially on

Armour. As in, if it's related to the thyroid, and he goes on 3 grains of

ARmour for a couple months it's likely you'll know in a very short time.

Thyroid problems can be caused by nutritional issues. If it happens to be a

nutritional problem causing the thyroid issues, the nutritionist might be

able to fix the thyroid problem. However, if it's a thyroid problem that's

causing the nutritional problem, something which can also happen as the

thyroid is important to proper digestion and every activity of the body, the

nutritionist isn't going to be able to work miracles.

Nutritional " healing " will probably take quite a long time.

Skipper

>

> have his thyroid hormone levels ever been checked? Free T4 and Free

> T3...and also antibodies?

> If you Google " keratoderma + hypothyroidism " , you'll find this

> condition can be associated.

> cindi

>

> .

>

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[Guest guest]

Skipper, since he's been living with this all his life, I don't see it as an emergency. I know what my kids eat, and I can pretty much guarantee you that they're deficient in about every nutrient. Certainly, they do not have enough iodine in their diet. The nutritionist said he should be off of dairy and take the multivitamins that she has created plus fish oil and Iodoral for a month and see what happens. We'll go from there. It will be interesting to see if there are positive changes.

Is Armour a prescription?

----- Original Message -----

From: Skipper Beers

>From: "King's Song" <melaniekingssong>>Cindi, no, I have not had any thyroid testing done on my son. I've never >found a doctor that was interested in considering that he needed anything >other than lotion of some kind. My leaning at this point is toward >trusting my nutritionist since I haven't found doctors to be too helpful.Well, that's one point of view. However, if it's a thyroid problem, conditions the thyroid problem causes clear up really fast, especially on Armour. As in, if it's related to the thyroid, and he goes on 3 grains of ARmour for a couple months it's likely you'll know in a very short time.

..