apple cider

November 15, 2005

Phil-

>We had some unpasturized apple cider that was getting old and

>starting to " turn " . Despite my protests my wife dumped the stuff. I

>thought certainly there was something I could do with the stuff and

>make some fermented concotion. I want to be ready the next time we

>have some. What does one do with old cider besides pouring it down the drain?

As long as the cider was from quality apples, you can always make it

into apple cider vinegar.

-

March 18, 2006

Hi , Firstly were you assured that the cider was un-pasteurised and

had no preservatives added?

If you bought it at a store, natural/healthfood store or not it was likely

pastuerised.

If you want to *wild ferment* pastuerised juice (w/o preservatives) it can

be done, but it is dependant on wild yeasts in the air, so the juice needs

to be open fermented in a crock or bucket for the first 3-5 days to gather

enough yeast to get it going. Covering it with loose weave cheescloth and

stirring with a clean metal or plastic spoon for the first few days or until

noticable fermentation begins (bubbles) *then* and only then you rack/siphon

the innoculated juice into a closed fermenter with a blowoff hose. Then

things should kick up and you'll get that vigorous frothing that you're

looking for.

If you bought it from a grower/orchard..

It is my understanding that it is difficult for any orchard to sell raw

cider without going through alot of trouble.

A grower where I used to live was required to use all stainless steel

pressing and bottling equipment so that it could be sanitized between

pressings. Wood is impossible to sanitize..

He was also required to label the bottle with a warning that the juice was

fresh, un-pasturized and would have considerable counts of live natural

yeasts and bacterias..it was quite the serious label..we all know that the

critters in there are generally of the non-pathogenic kind, but for immune

comprimised folks it doesn't take much of the wrong bugs to make one ill..

Don't quote me on this, but I read somewhere that wild fermenting cider can

sometimes produce some mold and that it is normal...but I think this was a

random post from some dude on a brewing forum so certainly would not go with

that as fact..

I know how you're feeling right now, six gallons of cider and mold on it

ARRGH! You'll do anything to not have to toss it.. prolly wasn't cheap, or

maybe it was...anyway..

I would start by transferring the juice into another clean fermenter, if the

juice is pastuerised. Then I would probably pitch some commercial

wine, champagne, ale, or cider yeast. To *assure* a proper fermentation..

You could transfer it into an open fermenter to see if you can still get a

wild fermentation going, but that's up to you..

I take no responisblity for any illness/death or other damage incurred from

your cider, but I would probably look into it further before giving up on

the batch myself..

Good Luck!

Beau

On 3/18/06, moonbeamedin74 <jessterx@...> wrote:

>

> Hi everyone. I recently bought 6 gallons of organic, biodynamically grown

> apple cider in

> order to make the " Cider Take 2 " recipe in Wild Fermentation. Instead of

> just making 1

> gallon as the recipe states--I bought a huge glass fermenter (to make a

> bunch) and I see

> today that small bits of mold are growing on top. Also, I didn't ever

> experience the apple

> cider frothing up and vigorously boiling over as the recipe states. I am

> thinking I will

> siphon it into another fermenting vessel today--but, have never

> experienced mold in all

> my days of fermenting and don't know quite what to do-- Any suggestions

> or wisdom

> would be appreciated!!!!!!!!

>

March 18, 2006

Thank YOU Beau! I just called the farm I purchased the cider through--to make

absolute

sure that it is in fact unpasteurized. I started to wonder the same thing. I

only ordered it

because they told me it was unpasteurized--but, I am thinking it would have more

LIFE

than this! The label states NO PRESERVATIVES: wax free, tbz free, dpa free, mcp

free, fon

free, pbt free--but, there isn't the heavy duty scare tactic labeling that you

would expect

for unpasteurized.

I am thinking I will transfer this batch into several smaller batches to

experiment with. I

will siphon 1 of the gallons to a glass jar with a wide mouth in order to see if

I can capture

some of those wild yeasts. I have some ale yeast in the fridge I can pitch into

a couple of

the gallons--do you think the flavor will be ok? Do I bottle it like I would

any other home

brew once the fermentation is complete? I am thinking a champagne or wine or

mead

yeast might be tastier--but, I don't know since I have never tried. I was

imagining adding

kefir grains to 1 gallon and maybe some kombucha juice and a mushroom to another

just

for fun--any thoughts?......

Thanks again!!!!....

> >

> > Hi everyone. I recently bought 6 gallons of organic, biodynamically grown

> > apple cider in

> > order to make the " Cider Take 2 " recipe in Wild Fermentation. Instead of

> > just making 1

> > gallon as the recipe states--I bought a huge glass fermenter (to make a

> > bunch) and I see

> > today that small bits of mold are growing on top. Also, I didn't ever

> > experience the apple

> > cider frothing up and vigorously boiling over as the recipe states. I am

> > thinking I will

> > siphon it into another fermenting vessel today--but, have never

> > experienced mold in all

> > my days of fermenting and don't know quite what to do-- Any suggestions

> > or wisdom

> > would be appreciated!!!!!!!!

> >

March 18, 2006

He ,

If it is'nt pastuerised then you should be able to skip the open

fermentation. There are a ton of wild yeasts on apples (most all sweet

fruits really).

Just make sure temps are around 70-75F that will help things get going, wild

fermentations take a little longer because the yeast needs to propagate it's

numbers to really take off..

Wild ferments can produce some tasty brew, but there's of course more chance

of off flavors, but with some aging these usually mellow or go-away

completely.

I have made good cider with ale yeast and it won't always ferment

completely dry leaving more apple flavor. Ale yeast also produces those

fruity esters that can be good, whereas champagne yeast will ferment very

dry and produce no esters. Wine yeasts are somwhere in between depending on

what type you use..There is such a thing as " Cider yeast " this somehow

assures that more apple flavor comes through in the finished product, never

tried it though.

Whether you want a still cider (un-carbonated) or a sparkling cider you will

still allow the primary fermentation to subside (if you pitch commercial

yeast this can be complete in 3-5 days), rack the cider off the sediment

into a sanitized carboy/fermenter and allow another 1-2 weeks for the

fermentation to complete. You'll know when it's ready to bottle when it

clears. If it begins to clear but seems to take a too long, you can move it

to a cooler place to help it along.

For still cider, you really need to make sure fermentation is complete..for

sparkling cider (you should still wait for complete fermentation) use 3/4

cup corn sugar per 5 gallons or 1/2 tsp per 12 oz bottle.

Boil it into a pint of water and pour it into a clean food grade bucket,

siphon the finished cider in on top of this, but don't splash (causes

oxidation) keep the end under the liquid to avoid introducing air for the

same reason.

The gently stir and siphon into champagne bottles, plastic bottles or beer

bottles. For 5 gal you'll need about 50 or more 12oz bottles. You can put

still cider in wine bottles..

If you go for sparkling, it should be fizzy after 2 weeks but aging it at

least a month at 68-70F temps will improve the flavor and mellow the bite

greatly. MAKE SURE FERMENTATION IS COMPLETE BEFORE BOTTLING!

So to keep things realitively simple and have LOTS of sure shot cider, you

may just want to keep at least 5 gal of cider together so you can use all of

these numbers and fill the secondary fermenter to the top, this is important

for keeping out air...bottling 5 gal is a bit of work, so you have some help

capping bottles etc. But I do it myself and it's not bad.

OTOH maybe you want to play around to see how you like it, before you have 5

gal of it around..

You may need;

airlocks, a capper, caps, a bottle-filling attachment and racking cane,

siphon hose to fit, corn sugar, bottles, finings (only if you're concerned

with clarity) a hydrometer (only if you would like to know the alcohol% of

the cider, you need readings of the unfermented juice to find that number

though).

All these will make a big batch easier, but you can do without most of it

and still be fine.

BTW you WILL notice a sulfur(rotten egg) smell for the first few weeks of

fermentation and possibly all the way into the bottle, this is just the way

apple juice ferments, don't worry it will go away!

If you're into all this, grab a good homebrewing book to learn more!

Have Fun

Beau

On 3/18/06, moonbeamedin74 <jessterx@...> wrote:

>

> Thank YOU Beau! I just called the farm I purchased the cider through--to

> make absolute

> sure that it is in fact unpasteurized. I started to wonder the same

> thing. I only ordered it

> because they told me it was unpasteurized--but, I am thinking it would

> have more LIFE

> than this! The label states NO PRESERVATIVES: wax free, tbz free, dpa

> free, mcp free, fon

> free, pbt free--but, there isn't the heavy duty scare tactic labeling that

> you would expect

> for unpasteurized.

>

> I am thinking I will transfer this batch into several smaller batches to

> experiment with. I

> will siphon 1 of the gallons to a glass jar with a wide mouth in order to

> see if I can capture

> some of those wild yeasts. I have some ale yeast in the fridge I can

> pitch into a couple of

> the gallons--do you think the flavor will be ok? Do I bottle it like I

> would any other home

> brew once the fermentation is complete? I am thinking a champagne or wine

> or mead

> yeast might be tastier--but, I don't know since I have never tried. I was

> imagining adding

> kefir grains to 1 gallon and maybe some kombucha juice and a mushroom to

> another just

> for fun--any thoughts?......

>

> Thanks again!!!!....

>

March 18, 2006

You might need some starter. Even the biodynamic stuff is

often pasteurized, so there is no yeast in it to keep the

mold down.

I use kefir grains to make my cider. They work great,

add a great taste.

-- Heidi

moonbeamedin74 wrote:

> Hi everyone. I recently bought 6 gallons of organic, biodynamically

> grown apple cider in

> order to make the " Cider Take 2 " recipe in Wild Fermentation. Instead

> of just making 1

> gallon as the recipe states--I bought a huge glass fermenter (to make a

> bunch) and I see

> today that small bits of mold are growing on top. Also, I didn't ever

> experience the apple

> cider frothing up and vigorously boiling over as the recipe states. I

> am thinking I will

> siphon it into another fermenting vessel today--but, have never

> experienced mold in all

> my days of fermenting and don't know quite what to do-- Any suggestions

> or wisdom

> would be appreciated!!!!!!!!

>

March 18, 2006

Heidi,

That sounds really good. Do you use the little cauliflower looking grains or

the packets of

powder kefir starter? I have both--just wondering what you recommend--and how

long

you ferment. Also, do you cover the cider with a cheesecloth or do you use a

carboy?

Thanks!.....

>

> You might need some starter. Even the biodynamic stuff is

> often pasteurized, so there is no yeast in it to keep the

> mold down.

>

> I use kefir grains to make my cider. They work great,

> add a great taste.

>

> -- Heidi

>

> moonbeamedin74 wrote:

> > Hi everyone. I recently bought 6 gallons of organic, biodynamically

> > grown apple cider in

> > order to make the " Cider Take 2 " recipe in Wild Fermentation. Instead

> > of just making 1

> > gallon as the recipe states--I bought a huge glass fermenter (to make a

> > bunch) and I see

> > today that small bits of mold are growing on top. Also, I didn't ever

> > experience the apple

> > cider frothing up and vigorously boiling over as the recipe states. I

> > am thinking I will

> > siphon it into another fermenting vessel today--but, have never

> > experienced mold in all

> > my days of fermenting and don't know quite what to do-- Any suggestions

> > or wisdom

> > would be appreciated!!!!!!!!

> >

March 18, 2006

I just got a message back from the farm that it is in fact flash pasteurized--I

was

misinformed unfortunately!........Hopefully, I can salvage this

batch!.....

> > Hi everyone. I recently bought 6 gallons of organic, biodynamically

> > grown apple cider in

> > order to make the " Cider Take 2 " recipe in Wild Fermentation. Instead

> > of just making 1

> > gallon as the recipe states--I bought a huge glass fermenter (to make a

> > bunch) and I see

> > today that small bits of mold are growing on top. Also, I didn't ever

> > experience the apple

> > cider frothing up and vigorously boiling over as the recipe states. I

> > am thinking I will

> > siphon it into another fermenting vessel today--but, have never

> > experienced mold in all

> > my days of fermenting and don't know quite what to do-- Any suggestions

> > or wisdom

> > would be appreciated!!!!!!!!

> >

March 19, 2006

moonbeamedin74 wrote:

>

> Heidi,

> That sounds really good. Do you use the little cauliflower looking

> grains or the packets of

> powder kefir starter? I have both--just wondering what you

> recommend--and how long

> you ferment. Also, do you cover the cider with a cheesecloth or do you

> use a carboy?

> Thanks!.....

I just toss a kefir grain (cauliflower) in it. After the first batch,

there is a layer of yeast on the bottom, which I leave (pour

off the cider from the top). I let it go 2 days to 2 weeks,

depending on when I think about it, then put it in

the fridge. I only do a gallon at a time, in a baby carbouy,

because I find the big containers unweildy and also because

it doesn't keep very well (turns sour!).

I do like using a waterlock though. No flies, and it seems

to ferment better.

One kefir grain lasts 6 months or so, unless the

cider gets vinegary, which kills the grain. I have

extra grains usually, so it doesn't matter.

-- Heidi

March 20, 2006

Hi Beau,

I didn't receive your message until now--but, I went ahead and purchased some

cider

yeast from our local home brew shop and siphoned 5 gallons into my 5 gallon

carboy,

took a hydrometer reading and pitched the yeast. I am happy to say it is " glug,

glugging "

now~yes! There is life there! So, I really want to turn this into

sparkling--is there any

reason I should use corn sugar instead of cane? I have some organic unrefined

cane sugar

I would rather use--is there a reason to avoid it? Also, my other carboy is a 6

1/2

galloner--do, you think I absolutely must use a secondary fermenter? I am

actually going

to be out of town until next week and was hoping to let this batch do its thing

for two

weeks before siphoning off (to get rid of sediment) and then add the bottling

sugar and

bottle-- Curious what you think! Thanks so much for your help!.....

> >

> > Thank YOU Beau! I just called the farm I purchased the cider through--to

> > make absolute

> > sure that it is in fact unpasteurized. I started to wonder the same

> > thing. I only ordered it

> > because they told me it was unpasteurized--but, I am thinking it would

> > have more LIFE

> > than this! The label states NO PRESERVATIVES: wax free, tbz free, dpa

> > free, mcp free, fon

> > free, pbt free--but, there isn't the heavy duty scare tactic labeling that

> > you would expect

> > for unpasteurized.

> >

> > I am thinking I will transfer this batch into several smaller batches to

> > experiment with. I

> > will siphon 1 of the gallons to a glass jar with a wide mouth in order to

> > see if I can capture

> > some of those wild yeasts. I have some ale yeast in the fridge I can

> > pitch into a couple of

> > the gallons--do you think the flavor will be ok? Do I bottle it like I

> > would any other home

> > brew once the fermentation is complete? I am thinking a champagne or wine

> > or mead

> > yeast might be tastier--but, I don't know since I have never tried. I was

> > imagining adding

> > kefir grains to 1 gallon and maybe some kombucha juice and a mushroom to

> > another just

> > for fun--any thoughts?......

> >

> > Thanks again!!!!....

> >

>

March 20, 2006

Hi ,

> So, I really want to turn this into sparkling--is there any

> reason I should use corn sugar instead of cane? I have some organic

> unrefined cane sugar

> I would rather use--is there a reason to avoid it?

>

Cane sugar is fine, though I'm not exactly sure of the amount to use for

priming (carbonating) a 5 gal batch.But I think it would actually be

about the same, it's a bit more coarse than corn sugar so it takes up less

space, but OTOH produces a bit more Co2 per gram.. So I say 3/4 cup per 5

gallons ought to do just fine..

> Also, my other carboy is a 6 1/2

> galloner--do, you think I absolutely must use a secondary fermenter?

I will warn you that when that fermentation really gets going, it could foam

out through the airlock since that carboy is probably pretty full.

Maybe-maybe not.. if it doesn't happen in the first 2 days it probably

won't. Usually you would start with 5 gal in the 6 gal carboy with a

" blowoff " hose running from the stopper into a jar or jug of water this

catches any overflow (like a giant airlock), then when the main (primary)

fermentation subsides, rack into the 5 gal carboy to finish and clear. But

you'll be fine to just do the whole fermentation in the 5 gal carboy if you

like. Just watch it closely at first if you can. If you can't be sure not to

have the carboy on your carpet :-0.

> I am actually going

> to be out of town until next week and was hoping to let this batch do its

> thing for two

> weeks before siphoning off (to get rid of sediment) and then add the

> bottling sugar and

> bottle-- Curious what you think! Thanks so much for your

> help!.....

>

Two weeks should be just fine, that's about as long as you would want it to

sit on the sediment before siphoning it off to avoid off-flavors.

It'll probably be pretty much done fermenting by then.

So what you can do (if you want) to make sure it's finished.(besides

looking at the airlock to see if it's still bubbling) is take a hydrometer

reading 2-3 days in a row if there is no change then it's done. But two

weeks ought to do it. (If the temps are around 68F). Cooler temps will be

slower but preserve more apple flavor (so they say)..

Put the boiled sugar water into a sanitized 5 gal plastic bucket and siphon

the cider into it carefully to avoid transferring the sediment, now that I

think of it the cider you have is probably not filtered anyway so you won't

even notice a little yeast in it..

Then stir gently and siphon into your bottles, like I said before use beer

bottles, plastic soda bottles or champagne bottles. Beer bottles are fairly

easy to cap with an inexpensive capper, I don't have experience with

champagne bottles but I think they make plastic corks that you can put in by

hand, not sure though, I know you need the wire cages to keep the corks from

popping out though. All available from your local (or online) homebrew shop.

Another tip is use a bottle filling tip and fill boxes or twelve packs with

the empty bottles FIRST then start your siphon etc. This will hold them up

for you and make things go smoother/faster. Get everything sanitized and

ready so you can just blast through and get the stuff capped up.

Put all the bottled cider in a 70F or so place for two weeks to carbonate.

Flavor can continue to improve for several months depending on how strong it

is. More alcohol = more aging..

Chill, then open a bottle after a week to see how the carbonation is coming

along, just to be safe. If it's bubbly but tastes harsh don't be

disappointed, move it to a cooler place 55-65(not crucial) and it should

mellow out after a month or so.

If it ends up being really dry with little apple flavor, then I might

suggest mixing a little fresh apple juice with it to make it more palatable,

only time will tell.

Hope this helps and that your first batch of cider turns out well.

Beau

September 9, 2006

I am looking for a recipe for a liver and gall bladder cleanse that

uses apple cider. A friend who is a nurse said she knew someone who

got rid of gall stones using apple cider. Also, I have done one

cleanse, I think I passed some stones, but am still having symptoms

that seem to be getting worse. I just read a link from this group at

curezone, and it says to first do the parasite cleanse, kidney cleanse

and colon cleanse. There are so many pill and herbs and times and I

would never be able to keep track of all that stuff!! I home school 3

kids and try to keep up with every thing else around here!! I need

the simplest, easiest way to get rid of these quickly. Someone

please help me.

September 14, 2006

Toni,

Thanks for you suggestion with the apples. I'm starting today. I borrowed a

juicer fron a friend and giving it a whirl. I hope this works!!

Toni Chester <tonichester@...> wrote:

Here are a few that i ran across a while ago...

Here is an alternative:

Eat all the granny smith apples and/or FRESHLY SQUEEZED apple juice (NOT store

bought) you can for three days. Also drink water. Eat nothing else. On the final

evening get ready for bed. Have one cup of olive oil and 1 cup of lemon juice

beside your bed. Take as long as you need to drink it. The slower you drink it,

the easier it will be to get down and keep it down. Sit up while drinking, but

lie down as soon as you have drunk any. Keep as still as possible. Go to bed as

soon as you have drunk it all. It is best to lie on your right side.

It may help to mix the lemon juice in the olive oil.

----------------------------------------------------------

EXCITING UPDATE! A RECIPE THAT TASTES GREAT!

Hello , I had a Gall Stone cramp on my upper right side. I had it

X-rayed and Ultra-sounded and the doctor said that I had Gall Stones and a fatty

Liver. I read your solution for Gall Stones and improvised on it. I took the

Lemon Juice and the Olive Oil and some Welch's Grape Juice and a Tablespoon of

Honey and put them in a blender and mixed it all up for a minute. What I got was

a Lemonade that looked like a Strawberry Milkshake. It tasted great . And there

was hardly a taste of Oil.It still did a thorough job on my Gall Bladder.

Sincerely, Harold Hartley, Toronto, Ontario, Canada.

----- Original Message -----

From: cbaker92975

gallstones

Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 9:44 AM

Subject: apple cider