Mitral valve prolapse

[Guest guest]

Skipper, I noticed that you stated that your wife had mitral valve prolapse.  I couldn't remember if you said she takes Armour or not.  If so, has she had any problems with that?  When I had my foot surgery, I was told that I needed to go and get this checked out.  They noticed some irregularities  from the heart monitoring that were symptomatic of MVP during the surgery.  I haven't been to the doctor yet to check into it.  I had problems on the Armour and was wondering if this could be why.  I did a little reading in the last couple of days and found that MVP is common among thyroid patients and also people who have scoliosis, which I have also.LinnOn Jun 15, 2006, at 8:29 AM, Skipper Beers wrote:* Vioxx for hypothyroid pain*Baycol to lower our cholesterol, statins which lower our cholesterol and sink our Coenzyme Q10 to dangerous heart attack levels, and have never been found to increase life expectancy*Fen-phen which they give us because we must be pigs with how fat we are and unable to control our appetites, two doctors offered it to my wife, in spite of her mitral valve prolapse and in spite of the negative news reports that were already out about it.. 

[Guest guest]

>

> Skipper,

> I noticed that you stated that your wife had mitral valve prolapse.

> I couldn't remember if you said she takes Armour or not. If so, has

> she had any problems with that?

She doesn't take Armour.

Actually, she was " normal " according to labs and the six doctors who

sent her to have her thyroid checked based on the symptoms wouldn't

treat her because the labs were normal.

Finally, we found a doctor who would treat her. (We hadn't really

been looking for one, we told none of the first six doctors we thought

she had a thyroid problem, we believed they knew best, we weren't

doctors, we just wanted an answer.) We started looking for a doctor

in 1996 after I typed all her symptoms into the computer and came up

with the site www.wilsonsthyroidsyndrome.com. It listed all of her

symptoms, which was an extensively long list.

So, when we found the new doctor, she went on ARmour and he titrated

the dosage upward based on her response and not her labs. When she

got to 18 grains of Armour, I had a longer discueeion with him about

's Thyroid Syndrome. I was never sure whether it was real or

quackery before.

She tried 's cycles, but unlike some patients, she couldn't get

off the thyroid medication and basically wound up on 202.5 mcg of

timed release T3 twice daily.

Her pulse rate is around 70, her BP 120/80 and she feels good after

many years of poor health.

Initially, she was diagnosed with MVP by a cardiologist who did an

ultraound.

On the last cardiologist visit, after she was on the thyroid

medication, he heard a little heart murmer, this was a different

cardiologist but he didn't think it sounded like MVP any more because

it was too mild.

Being hypothyroid is one of the worst things for your heart because it

doesn't have enough strength / energy to keep up its job. Your blood

vessels constrict to save energy which sometimes causes hypertension,

and makes your hands and feet cold. YOur blood volume goes down

because the heart doesn't want to work that hard.

When I had my foot surgery, I was

> told that I needed to go and get this checked out. They noticed some

> irregularities from the heart monitoring that were symptomatic of

> MVP during the surgery. I haven't been to the doctor yet to check

> into it. I had problems on the Armour and was wondering if this

> could be why. I did a little reading in the last couple of days and

> found that MVP is common among thyroid patients and also people who

> have scoliosis, which I have also.

Maybe you had problems on Armour. Sometimes a person just needs to

talk to a knowledgeable doctor, as if that were easy to find.

For example, I've read posts from a lot of people who have a pulse

rate of 60. This is great for an athlete, but for the normal out of

shape population it's caused by low thyroid. The hearts too weak to

pump faster. When their heart rate goes up and they can actually feel

a strong heart beat, they get scared and think the Armour is terribly

scary.

That's not saying your problem wasn't real. A person with heart

condition has to be cautious and go up very slowly. Yet, my wife and

her heart condition are fine on what even an agressive doctor would

call huge doses. (WE got the timed release T3 idea from 's

site, but her treatment is more like that of Dr. C. Lowe, who has

an extensive website and will treats fibromyalgia patients with up to

175 mcg of Cytomel.)

The other side of that, is thyroid treatment will go poorly for

someone with adrenal weakness. And, doctors tend not to recognize

anything until someone has an 's crises and goes to the

emergency room. I have low adrenals, but very few doctors would

recognize it, my family doctor of five years kicked me out of her

practice for asking for a low dose of hydrocortisone, yet when I got

it, specific long standing symptoms went away. (Frequent urination, I

would have to go 5 times every morning and every afternoon if I didn't

drink anything, more if I did, and never felt hydrated; chest pain of

more than ten years the doctor said was " costochondritis " and

rheumatoid type pains in my hips.)

Part of MVP may simply be the heart not being strong enough to keep

the blood flow in forward motion.

In my opinion Armour Thyroid is the best therapeutic agent ever

discovered by medical science. (Or maybe iodine is, but that doesn't

cure everyone's thyroid problem. Of course neither does Armour as my

wife is on T3 and some people actually need Synthroid to feel their

best, or so they say.)

Anyways, almost any health ailment can be cause by low thyroid, and

some of those can be disguised.

For example, it can cause bradycardia (slow heart rate), but it can

also cause an extremely fast heart rate. (Ray Peat, a biochemist,

says this is because the body is attempting to use adrenaline to

compensate for the low thyroid.)

It causes most of us to gain weight, but my son was skeletal thin and

acting anorexic when he was severely hypo. He's quit growing and

eating, put him on Armour and he started eating normally (or at least

more) and growing again. I've heard that cereal is high in fluoride,

which competes with iodine, and it was his favorite snack when he was

young so I wondered if the fluoride / inadequate iodine was the real

cause of the problem.)

Another factor, if you were on too low a dose, the Synthroid

literature says this can fail to resolve or actually cause symptoms of

hypothyroidism, so it can make your hypothyroid problems worse,

including your heart.

Skipper

[Guest guest]

Skipper, Thanks for all the info.  I obviously need to go and get this checked out.  I did get the symptoms you mentioned while on the Armour at 90 mgs of feeling a very strong heart beat, especially when I would lay down at night to sleep.  Then the arrythmias started and kept increasing.  My pulse rate has been very slow over the last couple of months, typically in the 60's.  One night recently when I was feeling really tired, I checked my blood pressure and it was normal but my pulse rate was 52.  I had trouble going from 60 to 90 mgs, it took several tries before I could tolerate it for several weeks.  I was also taking Cortisol which I felt was actually keeping me wired, so my doctor told me to cut the dose back on that which helped.  I haven't had it checked lately, but my T4 was 1.29 and T3 was 3.3, I'm sure I need to have it checked again, especially after being off the Armour for several months.  I didn't lose any weight while on the Armour and have managed to gain about 5 pounds in the last several months as I haven't been able to exercise much due to the foot problem.  Also had vitamin levels checked and was low in B12 and biotin, which is odd because I eat a lot of protein.  LinnOn Jun 16, 2006, at 7:32 PM, lsb149 wrote:

[Guest guest]

Linn, your message on my computer was one long sentence--very long I mean. What I think may have happened with you is that you were on too little cortisol---this is very common. I actually quit taking it for a year b/c I was on the wrong dose and didn't feel right. Cortef should be 5mg 4X a day=20mg. Then you can raise the Armour. I could not go beyond 90mg until I got adrenal and sex hormones.

gracia

Skipper,

Thanks for all the info. I obviously need to go and get this checked out. I did get the symptoms you mentioned while on the Armour at 90 mgs of feeling a very strong heart beat, especially when I would lay down at night to sleep. Then the arrythmias started and kept increasing. My pulse rate has been very slow over the last couple of months, typically in the 60's. One night recently when I was feeling really tired, I checked my blood pressure and it was normal but my pulse rate was 52. I had trouble going from 60 to 90 mgs, it took several tries before I could tolerate it for several weeks. I was also taking Cortisol which I felt was actually keeping me wired, so my doctor told me to cut the dose back on that which helped. I haven't had it checked lately, but my T4 was 1.29 and T3 was 3.3, I'm sure I need to have it checked again, especially after being off the Armour for several months. I didn't lose any weight while on the Armour and have managed to gain about 5 pounds in the last several months as I haven't been able to exercise much due to the foot problem. Also had vitamin levels checked and was low in B12 and biotin, which is odd because I eat a lot of protein.

Linn

On Jun 16, 2006, at 7:32 PM, lsb149 wrote:

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[Guest guest]

Gracia, I was on 1.25 mg of Cortisol twice daily.  I did take testosterone for while also but had some weird reactions.  Developed this really annoying problem when I went to sleep of waking back up with a start right after I first went to sleep, almost as though somebody scared you or you heard a loud noise or something.  Really wired.  That would go on sometimes for the first couple of hours after going to bed.  Then I started getting these burning muscle pains in my chest and across my upper back and shoulders mostly at night.  Quit the testosterone and that went away. Linn    On Jun 17, 2006, at 12:48 AM, Gracia wrote:   Linn, your message on my computer was one long sentence--very long I mean.   What I think may have happened with you is that you were on too little cortisol---this is very common.   I actually quit taking it for a year b/c I was on the wrong dose and didn't feel right.   Cortef should be 5mg 4X a day=20mg.   Then you can raise the Armour.   I could not go beyond 90mg until I got adrenal and sex hormones. gracia Skipper, Thanks for all the info.  I obviously need to go and get this checked out.  I did get the symptoms you mentioned while on the Armour at 90 mgs of feeling a very strong heart beat, especially when I would lay down at night to sleep.  Then the arrythmias started and kept increasing.  My pulse rate has been very slow over the last couple of months, typically in the 60's.  One night recently when I was feeling really tired, I checked my blood pressure and it was normal but my pulse rate was 52.  I had trouble going from 60 to 90 mgs, it took several tries before I could tolerate it for several weeks.  I was also taking Cortisol which I felt was actually keeping me wired, so my doctor told me to cut the dose back on that which helped.  I haven't had it checked lately, but my T4 was 1.29 and T3 was 3.3, I'm sure I need to have it checked again, especially after being off the Armour for several months.  I didn't lose any weight while on the Armour and have managed to gain about 5 pounds in the last several months as I haven't been able to exercise much due to the foot problem.  Also had vitamin levels checked and was low in B12 and biotin, which is odd because I eat a lot of protein.   Linn On Jun 16, 2006, at 7:32 PM, lsb149 wrote: No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.0/367 - Release Date: 6/16/2006 No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.0/367 - Release Date: 6/16/2006

[Guest guest]

cortisol dosing was completely wrong. Have you seen the book Safe Uses of Cortisol by McK Jefferies MD? You can begin again on the right dose 5mg 4X a day--then I don't think testosterone will bother you, but of course hormones have to be balanced. Look at Hormone Solutions by Thierry Hertoghe MD

gracia

Gracia,

I was on 1.25 mg of Cortisol twice daily. I did take testosterone for while also but had some weird reactions. Developed this really annoying problem when I went to sleep of waking back up with a start right after I first went to sleep, almost as though somebody scared you or you heard a loud noise or something. Really wired. That would go on sometimes for the first couple of hours after going to bed. Then I started getting these burning muscle pains in my chest and across my upper back and shoulders mostly at night. Quit the testosterone and that went away.

Linn

On Jun 17, 2006, at 12:48 AM, Gracia wrote:

Linn, your message on my computer was one long sentence--very long I mean. What I think may have happened with you is that you were on too little cortisol---this is very common. I actually quit taking it for a year b/c I was on the wrong dose and didn't feel right. Cortef should be 5mg 4X a day=20mg. Then you can raise the Armour. I could not go beyond 90mg until I got adrenal and sex hormones.

gracia

Skipper,

Thanks for all the info. I obviously need to go and get this checked out. I did get the symptoms you mentioned while on the Armour at 90 mgs of feeling a very strong heart beat, especially when I would lay down at night to sleep. Then the arrythmias started and kept increasing. My pulse rate has been very slow over the last couple of months, typically in the 60's. One night recently when I was feeling really tired, I checked my blood pressure and it was normal but my pulse rate was 52. I had trouble going from 60 to 90 mgs, it took several tries before I could tolerate it for several weeks. I was also taking Cortisol which I felt was actually keeping me wired, so my doctor told me to cut the dose back on that which helped. I haven't had it checked lately, but my T4 was 1.29 and T3 was 3.3, I'm sure I need to have it checked again, especially after being off the Armour for several months. I didn't lose any weight while on the Armour and have managed to gain about 5 pounds in the last several months as I haven't been able to exercise much due to the foot problem. Also had vitamin levels checked and was low in B12 and biotin, which is odd because I eat a lot of protein.

Linn

On Jun 16, 2006, at 7:32 PM, lsb149 wrote:

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[Guest guest]

Thanks, I'll check those out.LinnOn Jun 17, 2006, at 1:24 AM, Gracia wrote:   cortisol dosing was completely wrong.  Have you seen the book Safe Uses of Cortisol by McK Jefferies MD?   You can begin again on the right dose 5mg 4X a day--then I don't think testosterone will bother you, but of course hormones have to be balanced.  Look at Hormone Solutions by Thierry Hertoghe MD gracia Gracia, I was on 1.25 mg of Cortisol twice daily.  I did take testosterone for while also but had some weird reactions.  Developed this really annoying problem when I went to sleep of waking back up with a start right after I first went to sleep, almost as though somebody scared you or you heard a loud noise or something.  Really wired.  That would go on sometimes for the first couple of hours after going to bed.  Then I started getting these burning muscle pains in my chest and across my upper back and shoulders mostly at night.  Quit the testosterone and that went away. Linn     On Jun 17, 2006, at 12:48 AM, Gracia wrote:   Linn, your message on my computer was one long sentence--very long I mean.   What I think may have happened with you is that you were on too little cortisol---this is very common.   I actually quit taking it for a year b/c I was on the wrong dose and didn't feel right.   Cortef should be 5mg 4X a day=20mg.   Then you can raise the Armour.   I could not go beyond 90mg until I got adrenal and sex hormones. gracia Skipper, Thanks for all the info.  I obviously need to go and get this checked out.  I did get the symptoms you mentioned while on the Armour at 90 mgs of feeling a very strong heart beat, especially when I would lay down at night to sleep.  Then the arrythmias started and kept increasing.  My pulse rate has been very slow over the last couple of months, typically in the 60's.  One night recently when I was feeling really tired, I checked my blood pressure and it was normal but my pulse rate was 52.  I had trouble going from 60 to 90 mgs, it took several tries before I could tolerate it for several weeks.  I was also taking Cortisol which I felt was actually keeping me wired, so my doctor told me to cut the dose back on that which helped.  I haven't had it checked lately, but my T4 was 1.29 and T3 was 3.3, I'm sure I need to have it checked again, especially after being off the Armour for several months.  I didn't lose any weight while on the Armour and have managed to gain about 5 pounds in the last several months as I haven't been able to exercise much due to the foot problem.  Also had vitamin levels checked and was low in B12 and biotin, which is odd because I eat a lot of protein.   Linn On Jun 16, 2006, at 7:32 PM, lsb149 wrote: No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.0/367 - Release Date: 6/16/2006 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.0/367 - Release Date: 6/16/2006 No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.0/367 - Release Date: 6/16/2006

[Guest guest]

>From: Linn <linnmiller@...>

>Reply-iodine

>iodine

>Subject: Re: Re: Mitral valve prolapse

>Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 20:45:49 -0500

>

>Skipper,

> Thanks for all the info. I obviously need to go and get this checked

>out. I did get the symptoms you mentioned while on the Armour at 90 mgs

>of feeling a very strong heart beat, especially when I would lay down at

>night to sleep.

Strong heart beat is good, when yours has been too gentle. Armour will open

up the peripheral blood vessels that cause cold hands and feet. (My wife's

feet at night felt cold, dry and callused until she was on adequate thyroid

meds, now they feel normal temp and like skin as opposed to scales.) The

blood volume will start increasing up to normal. (That's allegedly a reason

labs aren't always correct, when the blood volume goes down, it appears you

have more TSH, T4 and T3 than you really do.)

Then the arrythmias

>started and kept increasing.

That's more of a concern. It may be you had the arrythmias and just

couldn't notice them with the softer heart beat. It could be your magnesium

is low. Could be CoQ10 would help, or it could be your adrenals.

My pulse rate has been very slow over

>the last couple of months, typically in the 60's.

Biochemist Ray Peat claims the normal pulse rate in a healthy population is

85. Overweight and out of shape people are likely to be higher unless they

have low thyroid.

One night

>recently when I was feeling really tired, I checked my blood pressure and

>it was normal but my pulse rate was 52. I had trouble going from 60 to 90

> mgs, it took several tries before I could tolerate it for several weeks.

Frequently sensitivity to even small increases is an adrenal problem

according to my thyroid doc. The dose of Cortef you gave is quite low, and

may not adequately compensate.

I was also taking Cortisol which I

>felt was actually keeping me wired, so my doctor told me to cut the dose

>back on that which helped.

Too much cortisol can make you feel alert, etc. On the other hand, if you

have adequate levels of adrenaline, the cortisol is nicknamed the " calming

hormone " because it brings you down from adrenaline rushes and keeps your

blood sugar from dropping. Hypoglycemia is partly or mostly a cortisol

problem. The adrenaline sends blood sugar surging and cortisol brings it

down gently. Otherwise it crashes.

That being said, why were you on Cortef? Did you have low cortisol

readings, or what?

I haven't had it checked lately,

>but my T4 was 1.29 and T3 was 3.3, I'm sure I need to have it checked

>again, especially after being off the Armour for several months. I didn't

>lose any weight while on the Armour and have managed to gain about 5

>pounds in the last several months as I haven't been able to exercise much

>due to the foot problem. Also had vitamin levels checked and was low in

>B12 and biotin, which is odd because I eat a lot of protein.

Low in B12 and you had nerve problems in your foot? What a surprise. The

low B12 may be part of the reason that hypos have a lot of neurological

problems. I think in " From Fatigued to Fantastic " the author says B12

should be over 540 or there can be serious problems. That's well above the

lab's reference range.

Liver has a lot of B12, there are shots that help you catch up quicker and

some doctors swear by them.

Skipper

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

>From: Linn <linnmiller@...>

>Reply-iodine

>iodine

>Subject: Re: Re: Mitral valve prolapse

>Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 01:19:51 -0500

>

>Gracia,

> I was on 1.25 mg of Cortisol twice daily.

Sometimes teeny, tiny doses of things can cause more problems than they

solve.

Low testosterone can be solved easily by DHEA, which is probably low anyway.

A woman should take 5 mg a day, if it's low to avoid the side effects it

can cause. That dosage is hard to find, but I think I found it on

endfatigue.com.

An alternative to Cortef is Isocort which is non prescription, and which has

2.5 mg of hydrocortiosone per pill. Not everyone needs the full 20 mg of

hydrocortisone that was suggested, but the reason for the four times a day

is the short life of it. And 20 mg does not interfere with the HPA

feedback loop. In other words, in spite of what most doctors say, it

doesn't shut down the adrenals at those dosages and why they can freely give

huge doses of Prednisone and not physical normal doses of hydrocortisone,

there's no logical reason.

Skipper

>

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Skipper, The weird thing is that I don't have cold hands or feet.   I used to have cold feet as a kid and when I was a teenager, but not since then.   The arrythmias really concerned me as they kept increasing until they were several times a day.  I backed off the Armour to 60 mgs then, but it didn't help much.  I have occasionally had an arrythmia but maybe one every couple of months in the last year, (hormones are starting to drop) so didn't think it was too much of a worry.  Have increased the magnesium and also am back on the CoQ10.   I am concerned about the pulse rate as I am not working out hard like I used to.  The strong heart beats concerned me as to when they occurred, it was odd to have happen when your body is at rest.  I'm more concerned now that there may be a heart problem that the Armour has made more distinct, so I am going to get that checked out next week.  I'm not sure about the strength of the cortisone I was on, that's compounded from the pharmacy my doctor uses so I don't know how it would compare with Cortef.   Didn't feel calm on the Cortisol, but it kept me awake at night, even though I took it only in the morning.  The doctor I use was trained with Dr. Hotze here in the Houston area and that's basically their protocol to start off with, is to put patients on cortisone, Armour and whatever sex hormones you may be deficient in.  They do take blood tests, but base more on your symptoms than labs.  My adrenal symptoms were not too bad, but she wanted me to try it for a couple of months to see how I felt.  I do have hypoglycemia (ever since I was a kid), but not the same as most people do, not just reactive hypoglycemia, my insulin level is much lower than it should be.  The worst problem it causes me is if I have to fast for any reason.  Can't do that without IV fluids.  Otherwise I just stick to a low carb diet, and only good carbs from whole foods. Thanks again for the help.Linn On Jun 17, 2006, at 5:18 PM, Skipper Beers wrote:>From: Linn <linnmillerentouchonline (DOT) net>>Reply-iodine >iodine >Subject: Re: Re: Mitral valve prolapse>Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 20:45:49 -0500>>Skipper,> Thanks for all the info. I obviously need to go and get this checked >out. I did get the symptoms you mentioned while on the Armour at 90 mgs >of feeling a very strong heart beat, especially when I would lay down at >night to sleep.. 

[Guest guest]

I actually was pretty high in my testosterone level, I wonder if

that's why I didn't do well on it.

Linn

On Jun 17, 2006, at 5:23 PM, Skipper Beers wrote:

>> From: Linn <linnmiller@...>

>> Reply-iodine

>> iodine

>> Subject: Re: Re: Mitral valve prolapse

>> Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 01:19:51 -0500

>>

>> Gracia,

>> I was on 1.25 mg of Cortisol twice daily.

>

> Sometimes teeny, tiny doses of things can cause more problems than

> they

> solve.

>

> Low testosterone can be solved easily by DHEA, which is probably

> low anyway.

> A woman should take 5 mg a day, if it's low to avoid the side

> effects it

> can cause. That dosage is hard to find, but I think I found it on

> endfatigue.com.

>

> An alternative to Cortef is Isocort which is non prescription, and

> which has

> 2.5 mg of hydrocortiosone per pill. Not everyone needs the full 20

> mg of

> hydrocortisone that was suggested, but the reason for the four

> times a day

> is the short life of it. And 20 mg does not interfere with the HPA

> feedback loop. In other words, in spite of what most doctors say, it

> doesn't shut down the adrenals at those dosages and why they can

> freely give

> huge doses of Prednisone and not physical normal doses of

> hydrocortisone,

> there's no logical reason.

>

> Skipper

>

>>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!

> http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

True, DHEA is a good support for raising testosterone. Also Hertoghe says

DHEA should always be taken with cortisol. I don't hav a lot of faith in

isocort though, and doubt it contains a standard amount of hydrocortisone.

gracia

> >From: Linn <linnmiller@...>

>>Reply-iodine

>>iodine

>>Subject: Re: Re: Mitral valve prolapse

>>Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 01:19:51 -0500

>>

>>Gracia,

>> I was on 1.25 mg of Cortisol twice daily.

>

> Sometimes teeny, tiny doses of things can cause more problems than they

> solve.

>

> Low testosterone can be solved easily by DHEA, which is probably low

> anyway.

> A woman should take 5 mg a day, if it's low to avoid the side effects it

> can cause. That dosage is hard to find, but I think I found it on

> endfatigue.com.

>

> An alternative to Cortef is Isocort which is non prescription, and which

> has

> 2.5 mg of hydrocortiosone per pill. Not everyone needs the full 20 mg of

> hydrocortisone that was suggested, but the reason for the four times a day

> is the short life of it. And 20 mg does not interfere with the HPA

> feedback loop. In other words, in spite of what most doctors say, it

> doesn't shut down the adrenals at those dosages and why they can freely

> give

> huge doses of Prednisone and not physical normal doses of hydrocortisone,

> there's no logical reason.

>

> Skipper

>

>>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!

> http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I am sure the doc didn't give you very much T. Seems like sometimes docs

talk the talk but don't walk the walk. They might say they know about

bioidentical hormones and use a compounding pharmacy, but the doses are

goofy, usually too low.

Gracia

I actually was pretty high in my testosterone level, I wonder if

that's why I didn't do well on it.

Linn

--

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[Guest guest]

Gracia,

I was on 4 mgs of testosterone daily to start and then increased to

6 mg. I do know that Hotze's clinic has a large following and he and

his colleagues are definitely not well thought of in the allopathic

community. My gynecologist called him a renegade and was not happy

with me for choosing to go this route. He also was not happy that I

was able to avoid a hysterectomy and cure myself of adenomyosis by

taking progesterone, actually I think stunned would be a better

description of his reaction to my symptoms and problem disappearing.

Linn

On Jun 17, 2006, at 11:12 PM, Gracia wrote:

>

> I am sure the doc didn't give you very much T. Seems like

> sometimes docs

> talk the talk but don't walk the walk. They might say they know about

> bioidentical hormones and use a compounding pharmacy, but the doses

> are

> goofy, usually too low.

> Gracia

>

>

>

>

> I actually was pretty high in my testosterone level, I wonder if

> that's why I didn't do well on it.

>

> Linn

>

>

>

> --

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> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

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> 6/16/2006

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

OH

well I think thyroid patients think a lot of Hotze Clinic.

I have just been thinking lately that the allopathic system is about to fall, and the last ones to know seem to be the docs. It's a huge crisis. My friend in Paris who sees Thierry Hertoghe MD says that he is going to open up treatment centers in US, with docs trained by him! He is my hormone guru. I think the allopathic docs have blown it, and someone like Hertoghe can move right in.

Gracia

Gracia,I was on 4 mgs of testosterone daily to start and then increased to 6 mg. I do know that Hotze's clinic has a large following and he and his colleagues are definitely not well thought of in the allopathic community. My gynecologist called him a renegade and was not happy with me for choosing to go this route. He also was not happy that I was able to avoid a hysterectomy and cure myself of adenomyosis by taking progesterone, actually I think stunned would be a better description of his reaction to my symptoms and problem disappearing.LinnOn Jun 17, 2006, at 11:12 PM, Gracia wrote:>> I am sure the doc didn't give you very much T. Seems like > sometimes docs> talk the talk but don't walk the walk. They might say they know about> bioidentical hormones and use a compounding pharmacy, but the doses > are> goofy, usually too low.> Gracia>>>>> I actually was pretty high in my testosterone level, I wonder if> that's why I didn't do well on it.>> Linn>>>> -- > No virus found in this outgoing message.> Checked by AVG Free Edition.> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.0/368 - Release Date: > 6/16/2006>>>>

[Guest guest]

That happened to me. The doc gave me 4mg of T and 1 grain of Armour. Placebo doses...-- prrGracia <circe@...> wrote: I am sure the doc didn't give you very much T. Seems like sometimes docs talk the talk but don't walk the walk. They might say they know about bioidentical hormones and use a compounding pharmacy, but the doses are goofy, usually too low.GraciaI actually was pretty high in my testosterone level, I wonder ifthat's why I didn't do well on it.Linn-- No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.0/368 - Release Date: 6/16/2006

[Guest guest]

But did you have any reaction to the testosterone or Armour?  My doctor was more than willing to keep upping the testosterone if I could tolerate it without any side effects.  I started getting heart arrhthymias (a dozen or more a day) and heart pounding at odd, inappropriate times, severe muscle cramping in right side of chest and under right arm and upper back, and various other pains in my wrists and shins, plus I gained weight and couldn't sleep.  Obviously something wasn't working right.  That was on 90 mgs of Armour, testosterone, Cortisol and progesterone.  She had wanted me to get up to at least 120 mgs of Armour.  My doctor and the group she is from are not like most doctors dealing in Armour.  In fact they don't even wait for your blood tests to come back to get you started, if your symptoms warrant, they start you immediately and will increase you to whatever you can tolerate, I wouldn't say they hand out placebo doses.  I just think I may have some underlying heart problem that I need to resolve.  Linn   On Jun 19, 2006, at 1:36 PM, Ross wrote:That happened to me.  The doc gave me 4mg of T and 1 grain of Armour.  Placebo doses...-- prrGracia <circe@...> wrote:I am sure the doc didn't give you very much T. Seems like sometimes docs talk the talk but don't walk the walk. They might say they know about bioidentical hormones and use a compounding pharmacy, but the doses are goofy, usually too low.GraciaI actually was pretty high in my testosterone level, I wonder ifthat's why I didn't do well on it.Linn-- No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.0/368 - Release Date: 6/16/2006

[Guest guest]

>From: " Gracia " <circe@...>

>Reply-iodine

><iodine >

>Subject: Re: Re: Mitral valve prolapse

>Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:51:53 -0500

>

>

>True, DHEA is a good support for raising testosterone. Also Hertoghe says

>DHEA should always be taken with cortisol. I don't hav a lot of faith in

>isocort though, and doubt it contains a standard amount of hydrocortisone.

>gracia

Since the manufacturers claim it, do you have a reason for doubting it?

There are reasons to take DHEA alone. Not everyone is low in both DHEA and

cortisol at the same time. Also, taking DHEA in some (but not all) people

will lower excess cortisol. Excess cortisol is just as bad as too little.

Skipper

_________________________________________________________________

On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to

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[Guest guest]

>From: Linn <linnmiller@...>

>Reply-iodine

>

>

> I actually was pretty high in my testosterone level, I wonder if

>that's why I didn't do well on it.

What possible reason would a female who was not low in testosterone want to

take a primarily male hormone? It has side effects.

Skipper

_________________________________________________________________

On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to

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[Guest guest]

When adrenals are insufficient, often testosterone is high relative to estrogen and progesterone which are much lower. IMO never treat to a blood test anyway. I use testosterone and looooovvve it

Gracia

>From: Linn <linnmillerentouchonline (DOT) net>>Reply-iodine >>> I actually was pretty high in my testosterone level, I wonder if>that's why I didn't do well on it.What possible reason would a female who was not low in testosterone want to take a primarily male hormone? It has side effects.Skipper__________________________________________________________On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.0/368 - Release Date: 6/16/2006

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Checked by AVG Free Edition.

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[Guest guest]

I am unaware that manufacturers claim 2.5mg cortisol per pellet. I thought they would never say that. Peeps who take 8 pellets per day don't get the same results as they do with cortef. I did 3 tests for cortisol, wasting lots of time and $$$. Blood was normal, saliva was high 4X a day, 24 hr urine from AAL was low, sex hormones too. I still take 5mg cortef 4X a day.

gracia

>From: "Gracia" <circe@...>>Reply-iodine ><iodine >>Subject: Re: Re: Mitral valve prolapse>Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 22:51:53 -0500>>>True, DHEA is a good support for raising testosterone. Also Hertoghe says>DHEA should always be taken with cortisol. I don't hav a lot of faith in>isocort though, and doubt it contains a standard amount of hydrocortisone.>graciaSince the manufacturers claim it, do you have a reason for doubting it?There are reasons to take DHEA alone. Not everyone is low in both DHEA and cortisol at the same time. Also, taking DHEA in some (but not all) people will lower excess cortisol. Excess cortisol is just as bad as too little.Skipper__________________________________________________________On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.0/368 - Release Date: 6/16/2006

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[Guest guest]

OMG you don't have an underlying heart problem. The cortisol was toooooooo low. and/or you might need estrogen too.

gracia

But did you have any reaction to the testosterone or Armour? My doctor was more than willing to keep upping the testosterone if I could tolerate it without any side effects. I started getting heart arrhthymias (a dozen or more a day) and heart pounding at odd, inappropriate times, severe muscle cramping in right side of chest and under right arm and upper back, and various other pains in my wrists and shins, plus I gained weight and couldn't sleep. Obviously something wasn't working right. That was on 90 mgs of Armour, testosterone, Cortisol and progesterone. She had wanted me to get up to at least 120 mgs of Armour. My doctor and the group she is from are not like most doctors dealing in Armour. In fact they don't even wait for your blood tests to come back to get you started, if your symptoms warrant, they start you immediately and will increase you to whatever you can tolerate, I wouldn't say they hand out placebo doses. I just think I may have some underlying heart problem that I need to resolve.

Linn

On Jun 19, 2006, at 1:36 PM, Ross wrote:

That happened to me. The doc gave me 4mg of T and 1 grain of Armour. Placebo doses...-- prrGracia <circe@...> wrote:

I am sure the doc didn't give you very much T. Seems like sometimes docs talk the talk but don't walk the walk. They might say they know about bioidentical hormones and use a compounding pharmacy, but the doses are goofy, usually too low.GraciaI actually was pretty high in my testosterone level, I wonder ifthat's why I didn't do well on it.Linn-- No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.0/368 - Release Date: 6/16/2006

[Guest guest]

Well, I felt the Armour at first, but when I needed to increase from 1 grain, that doctor left me hanging. The T cream had absolutely no effect. My next doctor explained that that was the T dose he usually started women on, and would have no effect on men. But by then, I was increasing my Armour on my own, and my T had recovered on its own.What saved me was finding the NTH group and taking charge of my own care. I will never let a doctor leave me sick again.-- prrLinn <linnmiller@...> wrote: But did you have any reaction to

the testosterone or Armour?� My doctor was more than willing to keep upping the testosterone if I could tolerate it without any side effects.� I started getting heart arrhthymias (a dozen or more a day) and heart pounding at odd, inappropriate times, severe muscle cramping in right side of chest and under right arm and upper back, and various other pains in my wrists and shins, plus I gained weight and couldn't sleep.� Obviously something wasn't working right.� That was on 90 mgs of Armour, testosterone, Cortisol and progesterone.� She had wanted me to get up to at least 120 mgs of Armour. �My doctor and the group she is from are not like most doctors dealing in Armour. �In fact they don't even wait for your blood tests to come back to get you started, if your symptoms warrant, they start you immediately and will increase you to whatever you can tolerate, I wouldn't say they hand out placebo doses. �I just think I may have some underlying heart problem that

I need to resolve. �Linn� �On Jun 19, 2006, at 1:36 PM, Ross wrote:That happened to me.� The doc gave me 4mg of T and 1 grain of Armour.� Placebo doses...-- prrGracia <circe@...> wrote:I am sure the doc didn't give you very much T. Seems like sometimes docs talk the talk but don't walk the walk. They might say they know about bioidentical hormones and use a compounding pharmacy, but the doses are goofy, usually too low.GraciaI

actually was pretty high in my testosterone level, I wonder ifthat's why I didn't do well on it.Linn-- No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.0/368 - Release Date: 6/16/2006

[Guest guest]

>From: " Gracia " <circe@...>

>

> I am unaware that manufacturers claim 2.5mg cortisol per pellet. I

>thought they would never say that. Peeps who take 8 pellets per day don't

>get the same results as they do with cortef. I did 3 tests for cortisol,

>wasting lots of time and $$$. Blood was normal, saliva was high 4X a day,

>24 hr urine from AAL was low, sex hormones too. I still take 5mg cortef

>4X a day.

> gracia

It is supposed to have the 2.5 mg of hydrocortisone.. Some people do quite

well on Isocort. It's a nice non-prescription alternative, for those who

have doctors who have a phobia about hydrocortisone.

Response varies in people for most medications and supplements. I can take

generic hydrocortisone which is much cheaper than Cortef. But, I tried

generic Armour and it had no potency.

http://www.vitaminmd.com/isocort.htm

Unlike all other adrenal support remedies available today, Isocort is the

only one that provides a standardized dose of the adreno-cortical substance

(hydrocortisone) required for restoration of healthy adrenal function.

******************

From the site of “From Fatigued to Fantastic” by Teitelbaum, M.D-

https://www.endfatigue.com/home.nsf/Editable%20Documents/Treatment%20Protocol?Op\

enDocument & AutoFramed

Isocort (Adrenal Glandular) – Contains approximately 2½mg Cortisol (Cortef)

per pellet (see #41 above for directions). Order from (800) 743-2256.

*******************************************

Skipper

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

I was convinced that I had an underlying heart condition too. I went to the

best heart specialists in Los Angeles and they all said that my heart was not

the problem and that I should get my thyroid in control. Since then I have

realized that the my thyroid condition causes severe mineral loss and all of my

heart issues are mineral deficiency symptoms. I take most (trace and major)

minerals is large quantities not to mention the food based potassium intake. I

get RBC blood work (red blood cell analysis) to track my mineral levels.

--- Linn <linnmiller@...> wrote:

> But did you have any reaction to the testosterone or Armour? My

> doctor was more than willing to keep upping the testosterone if I

> could tolerate it without any side effects. I started getting heart

> arrhthymias (a dozen or more a day) and heart pounding at odd,

> inappropriate times, severe muscle cramping in right side of chest

> and under right arm and upper back, and various other pains in my

> wrists and shins, plus I gained weight and couldn't sleep. Obviously

> something wasn't working right. That was on 90 mgs of Armour,

> testosterone, Cortisol and progesterone. She had wanted me to get up

> to at least 120 mgs of Armour. My doctor and the group she is from

> are not like most doctors dealing in Armour. In fact they don't even

> wait for your blood tests to come back to get you started, if your

> symptoms warrant, they start you immediately and will increase you to

> whatever you can tolerate, I wouldn't say they hand out placebo

> doses. I just think I may have some underlying heart problem that I

> need to resolve.

>

> Linn

> On Jun 19, 2006, at 1:36 PM, Ross wrote:

>

> > That happened to me. The doc gave me 4mg of T and 1 grain of

> > Armour. Placebo doses...

> >

> > -- prr

> >

> > Gracia <circe@...> wrote:

> >

> >

> > I am sure the doc didn't give you very much T. Seems like sometimes

> > docs

> > talk the talk but don't walk the walk. They might say they know about

> > bioidentical hormones and use a compounding pharmacy, but the doses

> > are

> > goofy, usually too low.

> > Gracia

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > I actually was pretty high in my testosterone level, I wonder if

> > that's why I didn't do well on it.

> >

> > Linn

> >

> >

> >

> > --

> > No virus found in this outgoing message.

> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.0/368 - Release Date:

> > 6/16/2006

> >

> >

> >

> >