Re: Please can anybody help me?

[Guest guest]

I wonder if your adrenals arent properly healed yet and they cant cope with anymore increases of the Armour?

Did you stop all armour for a week or so before starting the HC and a week or so after starting it?

I ask this because I am waiting to recieve HC for my adrenals and I have stopped my T4, 4 days now, and Dr P told me to stay off it for a week to 10days when I take the HC and then to reintroduce my T4 but at a lower dose. I just wonder if your body cant take anymore armour?

I rang Dr P on wed this week and got through straight away! I must be one of the lucky ones because I wasnt expecting to get through to him

Has the HC helped you?

From: Rosiebint <rosie@...>Subject: Please can anybody help me?thyroid treatment Date: Friday, 15 August, 2008, 7:14 PM

I'm seriously hoping somebody can help me make sense of what's goingon, because I feel *awful*. I can't get through to Dr P.I've been gradually increasing my Armour dose, by 1/4 grain each time(you might remember that I could never manage a 1/2 grain increase). I'm also on 30mg hydrocortisone, on account of my adrenals being f****d.The problems started a few weeks ago when I went up to 2 1/2 grains. I didn't feel right although I can't describe exactly how I felt bad;I can't remember too well. So I went back down to 2 1/4 grains andstayed there for another month or so, to let things get stable again.RosieSend instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

[Guest guest]

Hello Rosie - Im so sorry you are feeling rough. Im not an expert on Armour but my short experience is that too much can make you feel like too little - which resulted in me eventually being on way too much and having to drop back down and im now feeling much better!

However, if you are under Dr P Im sure he will know what's going on but as you say that doesnt help right now! I think that you should either stay on this dose for a while longer as some of the effects seem to be cumulative and you get improvements over a period of time, or consider whether you are taking too much (and I know this feels counter intuitive and that more would be better!) but as I say in my experience the symptoms of too much are very similar to too little!

Im sure that others can help further with advice on if the problem is due to non conversion which can be caused by adrenal problems. And another thought is that are you sure that your feeling rough is down to the thyroid or could you have a bug or something else going on?

Gill

I'm seriously hoping somebody can help me make sense of what's goingon, because I feel *awful*. I can't get through to Dr P.

..

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[Guest guest]

Hi Rosie

It might be worth staying on the dose that was giving fewer symptoms

and stay on that for longer than you hoped necessary.

The way the DNA is processed to give mRNA requires longer than normal

to return to stable levels. In the nucleus, 'steroids' can react as

monomers, dimers or multimers in combination with the T3/receptor(s)

to effect different mRNA production (rates/amounts).

Once the mRNA is made, it then requires another round of

interventions with the energy molecules ATP and NADH/NADPH etc.

Lowered metabolism reduces the amounts of these oxidant molecules in

ways that you can't easily measure or predict.

Tryptophan/Niacin can help to provide a little more NADH/NADPH.

Some people take longer than others to 'normalise' their metabolism

after a period of hypothyroidism.....the longer period hypothyroid,

the longer to return to normal, more or less.

best wishes

Bob

>

> I'm seriously hoping somebody can help me make sense of what's going

> on, because I feel *awful*. I can't get through to Dr P.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Gill

I hope you don't mind my asking but if I remember correctly you are

under the care of Dr B like myself. I just wondered whether he knows

that you are on Armour and if so how he responded. I am on the brink

of asking him to let me have a trial of Armour as I don't seem to be

getting anywhere however much he titrates my doses of T4 and T3. I

have had to reduce my T4 because I felt slightly hyper, very jittery

and with a high daytime temp of 37.4. However, I now feel hypo again

even though I only reduced my T4 from 125 to 100 (about 5 weeks ago),

daytime temps are now ranging for 36.5 to 37. I have just had a blood

test and he is going to ring me to discuss the results, I may try and

pluck up the courage to ask for a trial of Armour if my blood results

are acceptable.

thanks Love Lizzie

[Guest guest]

Thanks Gill,

I will keep you posted as to whether he lets me have a trial of

Armour. He gives me the impression that he thinks my leg cramps could

be due to some other cause. I did'nt have them prior to being

diagnosed and had been on T4 only for 11 months when they started. My

theory is that it is either the T4 that is causing them or it is

because I am under-medicated (although when I felt hyper I still had

them) it's very confusing.

Love Lizzie

> Hi Lizzie, yes you're right I am under Dr B and of course I dont

mind you asking!

[Guest guest]

Hi Gill

Has the Armour helped you more than the T4 replacement?

Love Lizzie

> > Hi Lizzie, yes you're right I am under Dr B and of course I dont

> mind you asking!

>

[Guest guest]

>

> I'm seriously hoping somebody can help me make sense of what's going

> on, because I feel *awful*. I can't get through to Dr P.

>

> I've been gradually increasing my Armour dose, by 1/4 grain each

> time(you might remember that I could never manage a 1/2 grain

> increase). I'm also on 30mg hydrocortisone, on account of my

> adrenals being f****d.

Many thanks for your replies... and I now have an answer!

Dr P called me back Monday evening & as it happened he'd had a

cancellation so I actually saw him yesterday :-)

The weak, wobbly shakes are T4 toxicity. There is a clear T4/T3

conversion block.

I am to go up to 40mg HC for the time being, and go down to 2 grains

Armour, and start adding in 5mcg T3 twice a day to begin with.

He said that 5-deiodinase failure is the least common of the reasons

why there might be a conversion problem, but that is what is going on

here. Bints is special :-)

So thyroxine was never going to work for me. And Armour by itself is

never going to provide enough T3 for me, because I get toxic on the T4

it contains.

I am completely in love with this man! He inspires confidence like

no-one else. He knows all the tricks, what might be going wrong, and

how to deal with it, coupled with kindness and compassion and a

willingness to think and learn. If only more doctors were like him.

Bounce bounce bounce! I am very happy.

I took my first 5mcg T3 this morning. What's also great about this

situation is that it shouldn't take too long - he says I can go up

every few days, not like T4 - it's taken me eight months to get up to

2.25 grains :-P

Imagine that, he reckons I should be there in a couple of weeks....

after all these years.

Rosiebint bounce bounce bounce

[Guest guest]

>

> Has the HC helped you?

Yes, I couldn't function without it. And I couldn't tolerate even 1/8

grain without it.

I must admit,I thought this weak wobbliness was an adrenal crash of

sorts but as it turns out, it isn't (see other post) - but I did want

to reply to you.

Rosiebint

[Guest guest]

>

> The weak, wobbly shakes are T4 toxicity. There is a clear T4/T3

> conversion block.

>

> He said that 5-deiodinase failure is the least common of the reasons

> why there might be a conversion problem, but that is what is going on

> here.

Think I have the same problem. Have spoken to Dr P this afternoon.

Am on only 1 grain of armour and can't increase. Can't find the

mexican site to the get the t3. Any ideas please? It is $123.65 for

100 x 25 mg at the international pharmacy!!

Luv Keri