Re: OT - 24 hr. urine cortisol - scurvy

[Guest guest]

> I used to read Louis L'amour westerns and

> remember him talking about " Scurvy, the scourge of the plains " and

> how they

> used to eat buffalo tongue to cure it. (Long time ago, I think I

> remember

> it right.) Skipper

Scurvy is vitamin C deficiency, sailors used to get it because they

were so long at sea without fresh fruits and vegetables. Maybe

plains dwellers got it too, in the winter, but they could not have

cured it with meat. Remember " Ye scurvy pirates " from the movies?

That's one of reasons people used to lose teeth, the gums get spongy

and loose.

[Guest guest]

There is lots of vitamin C in organs and glands like spleen, thymus,

adrenals & kidney.

Sharon

> Maybe plains dwellers got it too, in the winter, but they could not

have

> cured it with meat.

[Guest guest]

vitamin c deficiency....i believe is what scurvy is. And youre right about being out to sea for so long w/o it, ...oranges, lemons, strawberries, green peppers, ....all sources of vitamin C. Michigan Cassidy <christinecassidy@...> wrote: > I used to read Louis L'amour westerns and> remember him talking about "Scurvy, the scourge of the plains" and > how they> used to eat buffalo tongue to cure it. (Long time ago, I think I > remember> it

right.) SkipperScurvy is vitamin C deficiency, sailors used to get it because they were so long at sea without fresh fruits and vegetables. Maybe plains dwellers got it too, in the winter, but they could not have cured it with meat. Remember "Ye scurvy pirates" from the movies? That's one of reasons people used to lose teeth, the gums get spongy and loose.

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[Guest guest]

>From: Z <perennialgardener2003@...>

I wasn't pointing to the sea, but to inland areas where citrus fruits were a

bit rare. Louis L'Amour wrote a variety of westerns, in them he prided

himself on historical accuracy. It's too bad he started writing about the

settlement of America from the old country to the new so late, as the

historical novels that that started in France or England were the best.

Anyways, he talked in at least one book about how they would kill a buffalo

and cut out its tongue, or they knew they would die of scurvy. This kind of

goes along with that -

http://www.biblelife.org/myths.htm

" Weston A. Price, DDS reported excellent health among the Indians of

Northern Canada east of the Rock Mountains in his book " Nutrition and

Physical Degeneration " in 1933. These Indians lived almost entirely on

" animals of the chase. " They were nomadic wandering tribes following the

moose and caribou herds as their source of food. They had no access to the

ocean or river running salmon. They had no dairy animals and no source of

grains, seeds, nuts or fruits. They obtained vitamin C from the adrenal

glands and from other organs of the animals. "

For some reason, I was thinking our ancestors knew how to make use of the

whole animal. It is known as medical fact that most Vitamin C of a human is

stored in the adrenal glands. So, it's probably true with animals too -

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=1\

5666839 & dopt=Abstract

" The adrenal gland is among the organs with the highest concentration of

vitamin C in the body. Interestingly, both the adrenal cortex and the

medulla accumulate such high levels of ascorbate. Ascorbic acid is a

cofactor required both in catecholamine biosynthesis and in adrenal

steroidogenesis. "

Wonder if that means if you don't have adequate Vitamin C your cholesterol

elevates because it's necessary for creating cortisol and adrenaline?

I never thought much about it, but some people think fresh meat will provide

Vitamin C, and it makes sense.

Some people today may not have " scurvy " but have loose teeth from inadequate

Vit C and don't realize it.

Skipper

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[Guest guest]

>

> Wonder if that means if you don't have adequate Vitamin C your cholesterol

> elevates because it's necessary for creating cortisol and adrenaline?

>

> I never thought much about it, but some people think fresh meat will provide

> Vitamin C, and it makes sense.

>

I read historical novels too, and work with " historical foods " quite

a bit. The thing is, those sailors lived off " salt beef " and " hardtack "

and rum, for the most part. Yeah, they got scurvy! Their food

quality was abysmal. Other cultures have lived off the sea or

land and did fine. The Inuit ate fish, fish and more fish ...

and some seal with seal stomach contents ... and Steffanson lived

off a similar diet under the watch of doctors for a couple of years

without developing scurvy. But it's a complex question: the Inuit

(and the Japanese and Koreans) don't eat " fish " like we eat " fish " ...

they ate the head too, and innards, and all those cultures ate seaweed

(here's

the iodine connection ...). The Inuit got seaweed from seal stomachs.

What is really interesting to me is that your average British sailor

did NOT eat seaweed, or fish, for that matter. Most couldn't swim.

I was on a freighter ship in the middle of the Atlantic, and we were

surrounded by dolphins, flying fish, manta rays, seaweed, etc. and I was

reading novels about people starving at sea, and I'm thinking " HOW

could they starve? There is so much food out here! " .

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

I'm thinking there is an odd similarity here...could those sailors fish from a freighter? They had the answer to their problem surrounding them but no understanding of how to solve the issue. Kind of like our modern day society...we have so many issues and problems...the answers are there for us, but the drs. (freighters) make it seem impossible to find any real answers. Glad I de-boarded my ship along time ago!!! Michigan <<<<What is really interesting to me is that your average British sailordid NOT eat seaweed, or fish, for that matter. Most couldn't swim.I was on a freighter ship in the middle of the Atlantic, and we weresurrounded by dolphins, flying fish, manta rays, seaweed, etc. and I wasreading novels about people starving at sea, and I'm thinking "HOWcould they starve? There is so much food out

here!".>>>>

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[Guest guest]

>

> There is lots of vitamin C in organs and glands like spleen, thymus,

> adrenals & kidney.

> Sharon

But only if they ate em raw, as cooking kills Vit C.

Carol

[Guest guest]

Yeah, it is an interesting analogy for life! Most

sailors couldn't swim either. I've decided that

" lack of knowledge " is one of the biggest

factors in the human condition. The internet

helps a lot!

But yeah, of course they could fish from

the freighters. Though in the scurvy days

they were on much smaller ships, so it would

have been even easier. When I was on the

freighter though, flying fish would routinely land

on the deck, so really, you don't even have to

*fish* to get some food. If the sailors had eaten

some raw fish, they likely would have been ok.

But no sailor would ever, ever eat a raw fish.

Seaweed floats by routinely ... but no sailor

would eat seaweed.

A similar situation happened with the first

settlers. They lived by the coast ... the seas

were full of cod, and there were clams etc.

in the sand. But they still managed to starve.

Most of them were city-folk with no survival

skills.

I'm also thinking of all these iodine problems.

I mean, sure, huge swaths of land are naturally

low in iodine and selenium. How much would it

cost to add some powdered seaweed to the

fertilizer? Or to teach people to cook with it?

We added iodide to salt, but that's not a great

solution because that makes the salt less tasty

AND it doesn't help with the selenium. But there

are still a lot of kids born today with low mental

functioning, because of lack of iodine.

-- Heidi

Z wrote:

> I'm thinking there is an odd similarity here...could those sailors

fish from a freighter? They had the answer to their problem surrounding

them but no understanding of how to solve the issue. Kind of like our

modern day society...we have so many issues and problems...the answers

are there for us, but the drs. (freighters) make it seem impossible to

find any real answers.

> Glad I de-boarded my ship along time ago!!!

[Guest guest]

> Scurvy is vitamin C deficiency, sailors used to get it because they

> were so long at sea without fresh fruits and vegetables. Maybe

> plains dwellers got it too, in the winter, but they could not have

> cured it with meat.

Well, actually -- they might have! Some animals retain the capability

of making their own vitamin C. (Humans and some other primates lost

it; but mammals originally could manufacture their own in their

bodies.) So, if a plain's dweller ate a meat product from an animal

that stored a lot of vitamin C in its own tissues, it could have

helped stave off scurvy.

[Guest guest]

>From: Heidi <heidis@...>

>I'm also thinking of all these iodine problems.

>I mean, sure, huge swaths of land are naturally

>low in iodine and selenium. How much would it

>cost to add some powdered seaweed to the

>fertilizer? Or to teach people to cook with it?

>We added iodide to salt, but that's not a great

>solution because that makes the salt less tasty

>AND it doesn't help with the selenium. But there

>are still a lot of kids born today with low mental

>functioning, because of lack of iodine.

Makes too much sense. Who profits from a healthy population, and what would

we Americans do if an industry that makes up 17% of our GDP suddenly

collapsed because people were healthy? You're not thinking long term

economic success. (Check out Dr. Mercola's town of Allopath video on his

home page which makes this plain in cartoon form.)

Actually, that is a real interesting question. Instead of adding iodine to

salt, actually start enriching the soil with seaweed. Then all the problems

are solved, and the wildlife would also benefit, and have a higher iodine

content themselves.

Skipper

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[Guest guest]

Skipper Beers wrote:

> Makes too much sense. Who profits from a healthy population, and what would

> we Americans do if an industry that makes up 17% of our GDP suddenly

> collapsed because people were healthy? You're not thinking long term

> economic success. (Check out Dr. Mercola's town of Allopath video on his

> home page which makes this plain in cartoon form.)

>

Ack. My bad. How unpatriotic of me. I'll go refill all those meds

I'm not taking anymore and support our national economy.

I suppose that means I'll have to buy more packaged products

now too. Sigh. ;-)

> Actually, that is a real interesting question. Instead of adding iodine to

> salt, actually start enriching the soil with seaweed. Then all the problems

> are solved, and the wildlife would also benefit, and have a higher iodine

> content themselves.

>

They DO sell seaweed foliar spray ... I'm thinking though, for my

garden, just burying

the stuff. I use fish fertilizer though, which works very well and probably

for similar reasons. One guy had very good results just using seawater

to water plants (you'd think the salt content would kill them ...).

I don't think my family will eat seaweed, but some mainstream cooks

are now using it to flavor soups. It does have a rather nice

rich taste (as does Thai fish sauce), and like my family says,

" if they don't know what's in there they don't care " ...

-- Heidi