Re: Copper, Zinc, Iron, Selenium, and Iodine

[Guest guest]

Thank you, Ellen, for the link. It is from the ithryroid site, which is from one person's opinion ("" - http://www.ithyroid.com/john.htm). I've found this site to be very informative and generally good information. I find this list of supplements -- and his comments -- very interesting and thought-provoking.

I've included below quotes from that page that seem to be relevant. I've highlighted in red the sections that seem especially relevant.

He has proposed an entire supplement program here and recommends that people follow the entire protocol and not pick and choose individual supplements.

Ellen, you seemed to be particularly interested in copper and iron.

With copper, he seems to give almost opposite recommendation depending on whether you are hyper or hypo. I seem to recall that you are hypo, Ellen. Is that correct? If so, copper does not seem to be particularly relevant, and you may already have too much. I don't know of any test to accurately test copper levels. [is there anyone on the group that knows how to accurately measure copper levels?] If you are supplementing with zinc, you may need to take small amounts of copper, too.

Iron is often low in hypos. However, you should check your ferritin levels (a better way to measure iron than regular iron blood tests) before supplementing. Most people seem to see ferritin levels about 70-90 as ideal for hypos.

Here are the quotes from his site:

LIST OF SUPPLEMENTS

Thyroid conditions, especially hyperthyroidism, are characterized by serious nutritional deficiencies. The following list of supplements helped me and others to recover from hyperthyroidism and hypothyroidism and are important to correct the nutritional deficiencies which seem to cause these thyroid conditions. All of these nutrients have been shown to be essential for human life. While hypos may do well by selecting a good multiple vitamin/mineral supplement and adding to it as necessary, hypers have found it necessary to obtain these supplements singly so that the ratios can be changed as needed and so that certain minerals like manganese and iodine can be avoided until the body can once again tolerate these. This list is not intended as a "buffet" from which you can pick and choose. I consider each nutrient listed here important and possibly necessary for improving the thyroid diseases.

COPPER

(Copper seems to be the most important mineral for hypers to take. Copper deficiency has been shown to cause elevated levels of thyroid hormones. It is also essential for monoamine oxidase production which degrades hormones after they have fulfilled their function. Take on full stomach, since it may produce nausea at first.)

HYPERS: 6-10 mg per day. Copper is the most important mineral for hyperT, so take copper first.

HYPOS: 0-3 mg per day. Hypos may have excess copper which is suppressing the thyroid.

IODINE

(Kelp) (Most essential mineral for thyroid hormone production--deficiency of iodine and/or selenium causes goiter, a swelling of the thyroid gland. A goiter is the body’s attempt to increase the production of thyroid hormones from an inadequate supply of nutrients. Replenishing those nutrients will enable the body to resorb the goitrous tissue and allow the thyroid to return to its normal size.)

HYPERS: Don't take iodine or kelp until copper is built up. In cases of goiter, supplementing with iodine with insufficient selenium will make the goiter worse. Once copper has been supplemented for awhile, test with one kelp tablet. If hyper symptoms are not increased, gradually increase the kelp up to 6 tablets per day.

HYPOS: Start with one tablet per day and build up slowly to 6 tablets per day

IRON

(Iron is a critical mineral, because while it is very necessary and often low in thyroid disease, iron intake without a corresponding intake of copper can deplete copper. Iron works with copper to build hemoglobin, so therefore too much of either can deplete the other. Usually in hyperthyroidism, copper is deficient and has to be built up first. Once it is replenished, iron supplementation with the copper (probably in a ratio of no more than 5:1, iron:copper) will then help both minerals get built up. If hyper symptoms increase, stop or reduce the iron.) In hypothyroidism, iron is probably more deficient than copper and so should be supplemented first. Once iron is built up then a small amount (2-3 mg) of copper can be added. Iron increases body temperature by increasing norepinephrine and increasing cellular oxygen, which helps the low body temperature problem in hypothyroidism. Iron is known as the strength mineral.)

HYPERS: After copper has been supplemented for a few days, try a small amount of iron. Gradually increase to about 18 mg.

HYPOS: Take 18-36 mg per day.

SELENIUM

(The essential mineral component of 5'-deiodinase enzymes which convert the prohormone T4 to the cellular active hormone T3. Deficiency of selenium will cause "low T3 Syndrome" where T4 levels are normal but T3 is low. Selenium and/or iodine deficiencies cause goiter. Selenium is the most important mineral to counter the toxic effects of heavy metals. Selenium is essential for production of glutathione peroxidase which is one of the three most important antioxidant defenses of the body. Can be toxic at levels of over 1000 mcg per day. Goiter will result from a selenium deficiency (or iodine deficiency), and many hypers and hypos have goiter.)

*Note July 4, 2001: A recent study indicates that selenium in the form of selenomethionine is not absorbed as well as selenium from foods. I have used selenomethionine consistently throughout my recovery and feel that it must work. However, if you suspect that you are not getting enough selenium from your selenomethionine supplement, you may want to try a yeast-based selenium. Some people are concerned, as I was, that excess yeast may not be good, especially if they have candida. I believe that candida will respond to correcting iron-deficiency anemia and that a yeast-based selenium might be worth trying even if you have candida. I have been trying a yeast-based selenium for a few weeks and haven't noticed much difference. However, you may want to experiment with both forms to see which works better for you.

HYPERS: Take 200-600 mcg per day. If you have a known high level of mercury or other toxic metal, consider taking more. Start at 100 mcg and work up slowly.

HYPOS: Take 200-600 mcg of selenium per day. Mercury in silver amalgam fillings uses up selenium for detoxification. High amounts of amalgam fillings may require more selenium. Don't take over 600 mcg. per day unless you have an unusually large amount of amalgam fillings (more than 8).

ZINC

(Works with copper, but also may increase thyroid function. This mechanism is unknown, but zinc may spare selenium because it also detoxifies heavy metals. May increase progesterone production, which stimulates thyroid hormone production. The optimum zinc to copper ratio is about 8:1, but hypers need a lower ratio and hypos a higher ratio. Take on full stomach since it may cause nausea. Take in morning as it may keep you awake if taken at night.)

HYPERS: After copper and iron are built up some, try a small amount of zinc. If tolerated take one to five milligrams of zinc per milligram of copper. If hyper symptoms increase, suspect zinc and reduce amount taken. Premenopausal women may find it better to supplement zinc during the first half of the month and use less or no zinc during the second half.

HYPOS: Take 30-100 mg of zinc to increase thyroid production. If rapid heart beat is felt at night or early morning, decrease zinc.

TRACE ELEMENTS

(Contains small amounts of all minerals. May be important in supplying unknown necessary trace elements. Ionized form best, colloidal form second best. Trace elements can also be obtained from seafoods.)

HYPERS: Supplement with recommended amount unless the iodine, manganese, or zinc content increase hyper symptoms. If so, take sporadically. If you can't tolerate this at all, take copper and molybdenum until copper is built up and then re-try.

HYPOS: Take recommended amount.

http://www.ithyroid.com/supplements.htm

http://www.ithyroid.com/supplements.htm

Read it carefully and let me know what you think.

Ellen

> It does say in the links about vitamins that you need to get your copper an iron up before your start idodine.> > Ellen>

[Guest guest]

I wish I had read ths a few days ago. My doc told me yesterday that

my rash was either an alleric reaction or I need selenium, even

thuogh I'm only on 2 1/2 mgs. of iodine thanks for the info.

Debbie

In iodine , " Zoe & " <ZOEA@...> wrote:

>

> Thank you, Ellen, for the link. It is from the ithryroid

site, which is from one person's opinion ( " " -

http://www.ithyroid.com/john.htm). I've found this site to be very

informative and generally good information. I find this list of

supplements -- and his comments -- very interesting and thought-

provoking.

>

> I've included below quotes from that page that seem to be

relevant. I've highlighted in red the sections that seem especially

relevant.

>

> He has proposed an entire supplement program here and recommends

that people follow the entire protocol and not pick and choose

individual supplements.

>

> Ellen, you seemed to be particularly interested in copper and

iron.

>

> With copper, he seems to give almost opposite recommendation

depending on whether you are hyper or hypo. I seem to recall that

you are hypo, Ellen. Is that correct? If so, copper does not

seem to be particularly relevant, and you may already have too much.

I don't know of any test to accurately test copper levels. [is there

anyone on the group that knows how to accurately measure copper

levels?] If you are supplementing with zinc, you may need to take

small amounts of copper, too.

>

> Iron is often low in hypos. However, you should check your

ferritin levels (a better way to measure iron than regular iron blood

tests) before supplementing. Most people seem to see ferritin levels

about 70-90 as ideal for hypos.

>

> Here are the quotes from his site:

> LIST OF SUPPLEMENTS

>

> Thyroid conditions, especially hyperthyroidism, are characterized

by serious nutritional deficiencies. The following list of

supplements helped me and others to recover from hyperthyroidism and

hypothyroidism and are important to correct the nutritional

deficiencies which seem to cause these thyroid conditions. All of

these nutrients have been shown to be essential for human life. While

hypos may do well by selecting a good multiple vitamin/mineral

supplement and adding to it as necessary, hypers have found it

necessary to obtain these supplements singly so that the ratios can

be changed as needed and so that certain minerals like manganese and

iodine can be avoided until the body can once again tolerate these.

This list is not intended as a " buffet " from which you can pick and

choose. I consider each nutrient listed here important and possibly

necessary for improving the thyroid diseases.

>

> COPPER

>

> (Copper seems to be the most important mineral for hypers to take.

Copper deficiency has been shown to cause elevated levels of thyroid

hormones. It is also essential for monoamine oxidase production which

degrades hormones after they have fulfilled their function. Take on

full stomach, since it may produce nausea at first.)

>

> HYPERS: 6-10 mg per day. Copper is the most important mineral for

hyperT, so take copper first.

>

> HYPOS: 0-3 mg per day. Hypos may have excess copper which is

suppressing the thyroid.

>

> IODINE

>

> (Kelp) (Most essential mineral for thyroid hormone production--

deficiency of iodine and/or selenium causes goiter, a swelling of the

thyroid gland. A goiter is the body's attempt to increase the

production of thyroid hormones from an inadequate supply of

nutrients. Replenishing those nutrients will enable the body to

resorb the goitrous tissue and allow the thyroid to return to its

normal size.)

>

> HYPERS: Don't take iodine or kelp until copper is built up. In

cases of goiter, supplementing with iodine with insufficient selenium

will make the goiter worse. Once copper has been supplemented for

awhile, test with one kelp tablet. If hyper symptoms are not

increased, gradually increase the kelp up to 6 tablets per day.

>

> HYPOS: Start with one tablet per day and build up slowly to 6

tablets per day

>

> IRON

>

> (Iron is a critical mineral, because while it is very necessary and

often low in thyroid disease, iron intake without a corresponding

intake of copper can deplete copper. Iron works with copper to build

hemoglobin, so therefore too much of either can deplete the other.

Usually in hyperthyroidism, copper is deficient and has to be built

up first. Once it is replenished, iron supplementation with the

copper (probably in a ratio of no more than 5:1, iron:copper) will

then help both minerals get built up. If hyper symptoms increase,

stop or reduce the iron.) In hypothyroidism, iron is probably more

deficient than copper and so should be supplemented first. Once iron

is built up then a small amount (2-3 mg) of copper can be added. Iron

increases body temperature by increasing norepinephrine and

increasing cellular oxygen, which helps the low body temperature

problem in hypothyroidism. Iron is known as the strength mineral.)

>

> HYPERS: After copper has been supplemented for a few days, try a

small amount of iron. Gradually increase to about 18 mg.

>

> HYPOS: Take 18-36 mg per day.

>

> SELENIUM

>

> (The essential mineral component of 5'-deiodinase enzymes which

convert the prohormone T4 to the cellular active hormone T3.

Deficiency of selenium will cause " low T3 Syndrome " where T4 levels

are normal but T3 is low. Selenium and/or iodine deficiencies cause

goiter. Selenium is the most important mineral to counter the toxic

effects of heavy metals. Selenium is essential for production of

glutathione peroxidase which is one of the three most important

antioxidant defenses of the body. Can be toxic at levels of over 1000

mcg per day. Goiter will result from a selenium deficiency (or iodine

deficiency), and many hypers and hypos have goiter.)

>

> *Note July 4, 2001: A recent study indicates that selenium in the

form of selenomethionine is not absorbed as well as selenium from

foods. I have used selenomethionine consistently throughout my

recovery and feel that it must work. However, if you suspect that you

are not getting enough selenium from your selenomethionine

supplement, you may want to try a yeast-based selenium. Some people

are concerned, as I was, that excess yeast may not be good,

especially if they have candida. I believe that candida will respond

to correcting iron-deficiency anemia and that a yeast-based selenium

might be worth trying even if you have candida. I have been trying a

yeast-based selenium for a few weeks and haven't noticed much

difference. However, you may want to experiment with both forms to

see which works better for you.

>

> HYPERS: Take 200-600 mcg per day. If you have a known high level of

mercury or other toxic metal, consider taking more. Start at 100 mcg

and work up slowly.

>

> HYPOS: Take 200-600 mcg of selenium per day. Mercury in silver

amalgam fillings uses up selenium for detoxification. High amounts of

amalgam fillings may require more selenium. Don't take over 600 mcg.

per day unless you have an unusually large amount of amalgam fillings

(more than 8).

>

> ZINC

>

> (Works with copper, but also may increase thyroid function. This

mechanism is unknown, but zinc may spare selenium because it also

detoxifies heavy metals. May increase progesterone production, which

stimulates thyroid hormone production. The optimum zinc to copper

ratio is about 8:1, but hypers need a lower ratio and hypos a higher

ratio. Take on full stomach since it may cause nausea. Take in

morning as it may keep you awake if taken at night.)

>

> HYPERS: After copper and iron are built up some, try a small amount

of zinc. If tolerated take one to five milligrams of zinc per

milligram of copper. If hyper symptoms increase, suspect zinc and

reduce amount taken. Premenopausal women may find it better to

supplement zinc during the first half of the month and use less or no

zinc during the second half.

>

> HYPOS: Take 30-100 mg of zinc to increase thyroid production. If

rapid heart beat is felt at night or early morning, decrease zinc.

>

> TRACE ELEMENTS

>

> (Contains small amounts of all minerals. May be important in

supplying unknown necessary trace elements. Ionized form best,

colloidal form second best. Trace elements can also be obtained from

seafoods.)

>

> HYPERS: Supplement with recommended amount unless the iodine,

manganese, or zinc content increase hyper symptoms. If so, take

sporadically. If you can't tolerate this at all, take copper and

molybdenum until copper is built up and then re-try.

>

> HYPOS: Take recommended amount.

>

> http://www.ithyroid.com/supplements.htm

>

>

>

>

>

> http://www.ithyroid.com/supplements.htm

>

> Read it carefully and let me know what you think.

>

> Ellen

> > It does say in the links about vitamins that you need to

get your copper an iron up before your start idodine.

> >

> > Ellen

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I have hashi's that is why I was looking at the copper. I stay hyper most of the time and cannot raise my armour becaus of it. I have had my ferritan and iron levels checked. I was 45 and now 100 something. So it is not the iron that is giving me so many problems. I still take iron. Printed of this whole thing and have been studying it. I wish I had hypo it is esier to treat. I thought I would try the copper and and the zinc later to get rif of the hyper symtoms.

That is the basis of what I got from all this. Do you agree.

Thanks

Ellen

Re: Copper, Zinc, Iron, Selenium, and Iodine

I wish I had read ths a few days ago. My doc told me yesterday that my rash was either an alleric reaction or I need selenium, even thuogh I'm only on 2 1/2 mgs. of iodine thanks for the info. Debbie In iodine , "Zoe & " <ZOEA@...> wrote:>> Thank you, Ellen, for the link. It is from the ithryroid site, which is from one person's opinion ("" - http://www.ithyroid.com/john.htm). I've found this site to be very informative and generally good information. I find this list of supplements -- and his comments -- very interesting and thought-provoking.> > I've included below quotes from that page that seem to be relevant. I've highlighted in red the sections that seem especially relevant.> > He has proposed an entire supplement program here and recommends that people follow the entire protocol and not pick and choose individual supplements.> > Ellen, you seemed to be particularly interested in copper and iron.> > With copper, he seems to give almost opposite recommendation depending on whether you are hyper or hypo. I seem to recall that you are hypo, Ellen. Is that correct? If so, copper does not seem to be particularly relevant, and you may already have too much. I don't know of any test to accurately test copper levels. [is there anyone on the group that knows how to accurately measure copper levels?] If you are supplementing with zinc, you may need to take small amounts of copper, too. > > Iron is often low in hypos. However, you should check your ferritin levels (a better way to measure iron than regular iron blood tests) before supplementing. Most people seem to see ferritin levels about 70-90 as ideal for hypos.> > Here are the quotes from his site:> LIST OF SUPPLEMENTS> > Thyroid conditions, especially hyperthyroidism, are characterized by serious nutritional deficiencies. The following list of supplements helped me and others to recover from hyperthyroidism and hypothyroidism and are important to correct the nutritional deficiencies which seem to cause these thyroid conditions. All of these nutrients have been shown to be essential for human life. While hypos may do well by selecting a good multiple vitamin/mineral supplement and adding to it as necessary, hypers have found it necessary to obtain these supplements singly so that the ratios can be changed as needed and so that certain minerals like manganese and iodine can be avoided until the body can once again tolerate these. This list is not intended as a "buffet" from which you can pick and choose. I consider each nutrient listed here important and possibly necessary for improving the thyroid diseases.> > COPPER> > (Copper seems to be the most important mineral for hypers to take. Copper deficiency has been shown to cause elevated levels of thyroid hormones. It is also essential for monoamine oxidase production which degrades hormones after they have fulfilled their function. Take on full stomach, since it may produce nausea at first.)> > HYPERS: 6-10 mg per day. Copper is the most important mineral for hyperT, so take copper first.> > HYPOS: 0-3 mg per day. Hypos may have excess copper which is suppressing the thyroid.> > IODINE> > (Kelp) (Most essential mineral for thyroid hormone production--deficiency of iodine and/or selenium causes goiter, a swelling of the thyroid gland. A goiter is the body's attempt to increase the production of thyroid hormones from an inadequate supply of nutrients. Replenishing those nutrients will enable the body to resorb the goitrous tissue and allow the thyroid to return to its normal size.)> > HYPERS: Don't take iodine or kelp until copper is built up. In cases of goiter, supplementing with iodine with insufficient selenium will make the goiter worse. Once copper has been supplemented for awhile, test with one kelp tablet. If hyper symptoms are not increased, gradually increase the kelp up to 6 tablets per day.> > HYPOS: Start with one tablet per day and build up slowly to 6 tablets per day> > IRON> > (Iron is a critical mineral, because while it is very necessary and often low in thyroid disease, iron intake without a corresponding intake of copper can deplete copper. Iron works with copper to build hemoglobin, so therefore too much of either can deplete the other. Usually in hyperthyroidism, copper is deficient and has to be built up first. Once it is replenished, iron supplementation with the copper (probably in a ratio of no more than 5:1, iron:copper) will then help both minerals get built up. If hyper symptoms increase, stop or reduce the iron.) In hypothyroidism, iron is probably more deficient than copper and so should be supplemented first. Once iron is built up then a small amount (2-3 mg) of copper can be added. Iron increases body temperature by increasing norepinephrine and increasing cellular oxygen, which helps the low body temperature problem in hypothyroidism. Iron is known as the strength mineral.)> > HYPERS: After copper has been supplemented for a few days, try a small amount of iron. Gradually increase to about 18 mg.> > HYPOS: Take 18-36 mg per day.> > SELENIUM> > (The essential mineral component of 5'-deiodinase enzymes which convert the prohormone T4 to the cellular active hormone T3. Deficiency of selenium will cause "low T3 Syndrome" where T4 levels are normal but T3 is low. Selenium and/or iodine deficiencies cause goiter. Selenium is the most important mineral to counter the toxic effects of heavy metals. Selenium is essential for production of glutathione peroxidase which is one of the three most important antioxidant defenses of the body. Can be toxic at levels of over 1000 mcg per day. Goiter will result from a selenium deficiency (or iodine deficiency), and many hypers and hypos have goiter.)> > *Note July 4, 2001: A recent study indicates that selenium in the form of selenomethionine is not absorbed as well as selenium from foods. I have used selenomethionine consistently throughout my recovery and feel that it must work. However, if you suspect that you are not getting enough selenium from your selenomethionine supplement, you may want to try a yeast-based selenium. Some people are concerned, as I was, that excess yeast may not be good, especially if they have candida. I believe that candida will respond to correcting iron-deficiency anemia and that a yeast-based selenium might be worth trying even if you have candida. I have been trying a yeast-based selenium for a few weeks and haven't noticed much difference. However, you may want to experiment with both forms to see which works better for you.> > HYPERS: Take 200-600 mcg per day. If you have a known high level of mercury or other toxic metal, consider taking more. Start at 100 mcg and work up slowly.> > HYPOS: Take 200-600 mcg of selenium per day. Mercury in silver amalgam fillings uses up selenium for detoxification. High amounts of amalgam fillings may require more selenium. Don't take over 600 mcg. per day unless you have an unusually large amount of amalgam fillings (more than 8).> > ZINC> > (Works with copper, but also may increase thyroid function. This mechanism is unknown, but zinc may spare selenium because it also detoxifies heavy metals. May increase progesterone production, which stimulates thyroid hormone production. The optimum zinc to copper ratio is about 8:1, but hypers need a lower ratio and hypos a higher ratio. Take on full stomach since it may cause nausea. Take in morning as it may keep you awake if taken at night.)> > HYPERS: After copper and iron are built up some, try a small amount of zinc. If tolerated take one to five milligrams of zinc per milligram of copper. If hyper symptoms increase, suspect zinc and reduce amount taken. Premenopausal women may find it better to supplement zinc during the first half of the month and use less or no zinc during the second half.> > HYPOS: Take 30-100 mg of zinc to increase thyroid production. If rapid heart beat is felt at night or early morning, decrease zinc.> > TRACE ELEMENTS> > (Contains small amounts of all minerals. May be important in supplying unknown necessary trace elements. Ionized form best, colloidal form second best. Trace elements can also be obtained from seafoods.)> > HYPERS: Supplement with recommended amount unless the iodine, manganese, or zinc content increase hyper symptoms. If so, take sporadically. If you can't tolerate this at all, take copper and molybdenum until copper is built up and then re-try.> > HYPOS: Take recommended amount.> > http://www.ithyroid.com/supplements.htm> > > > > > http://www.ithyroid.com/supplements.htm> > Read it carefully and let me know what you think.> > Ellen> > It does say in the links about vitamins that you need to get your copper an iron up before your start idodine.> > > > Ellen> >>

[Guest guest]

>From: " Ellen " <maryellenmu@...>

>I have hashi's that is why I was looking at the copper. I stay hyper most

>of the time and cannot >raise my armour becaus of it. I have had my

>ferritan and iron levels checked. I was 45 and now >100 something. So it

>is not the iron that is giving me so many problems. I still take iron.

Or perhaps you have too much iron?

The following talks about a person misdiagnosed with hepatitis C when they

really just had iron overload -

http://sites.mercola.com/2003/apr/2/iron.htm

When I finally drew this man’s ferritin level in my office it was 1000--the

second highest I have ever seen. A good number is 50. Anything above 100

should be treated, and anything above 300 to 400 is normally considered to

be a problem by traditional doctors. So let me provide further expansion on

the relationship between hepatitis C and iron toxicity. "

This is only one doctor's (Mercola) opinion, of course -

http://www.mercola.com/2000/jan/9/most_prevalent_inherited_disease.htm

" Iron can be a very damaging supplement and must be used with great caution.

I would never recommend iron supplementation unless one confirms that the

serum ferritin level is below 20. "

I wonder why you were told to take iron in the first place. Usually,

someone with anemia, or mild anemia showing on their lab will be told to

take iron, but just because one has anemia doesn't mean the cause is iron

deficiency, and for some pople with anemia (e.g those whose anemia is caused

by thalassemia or hypothyroidism) taking iron is probably not

a good idea.

Ray Peat a biochemist, has made some interesting comments on iron (which my

thyroid doctor gave to me,and which was the reason I didn't give iron to my

son when the family doc suggested it, and I later found out he had

thalassemia, so it's a good thing I didn't) -

http://tinyurl.com/njnbf

" In the 1960s the World Health Organization found that when iron supplements

were given to anemic people in Africa, there was a great increase in the

death rate from infectious diseases, especially malaria. Around the same

time, research began to show that the regulation of iron is a central

function of the immune system, and that this seems to have evolved because

iron is a basic requirement for the survival and growth of cells of all

types, including bacteria, parasites, and cancer. The pioneer researcher in

the role of iron in immunity believed that an excess of dietary iron

contributed to the development of leukemia and lymphatic cancers. Just like

lead, mercury, cadmium, nickel and other heavy metals, stored iron produces

destructive free radicals. The harmful effects of iron-produced free

radicals are practically indistinguishable from those caused by exposure to

X-rays and gamma rays; both accelerate the accumulation of age-pigment and

other signs of aging. Excess iron is a crucial element in the transformation

of stress into tissue damage by free radicals. "

Too much iron would also follow 's theory, since you quoted ithyroid -

http://www.ithyroid.com/iron.htm

" Hemochromatosis is a disease of iron accumulation with resultant damage to

the liver, pancreas, heart, and pituitary. Premenopausal women are

protected from getting it because of menstrual blood loss. While many

people believe it is a hereditary disease, I believe it is a disease of

copper deficiency. When copper gets deficient, the body can't use iron so

it accumulates and causes damage. The disease is also called siderosis,

which is characterized by a gray pallor to the skin from iron accumulation

in the tissue. "

It is an interesting theory.

By the way, why do you call yourself " hyper " as it's unlikely the doctor

would let you continue thyroid meds if he felt you were?

Skipper

_________________________________________________________________

Call friends with PC-to-PC calling -- FREE

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[Guest guest]

I bounce back and forth from hyper to hypo. My understanding is my hashi

patients do. I live mostly hyper very seldom go hypo. My doctor said I

would eventually go hypo after awhile. The reason I take low does of iron

is because I needed to get it into the 90 range. I had severe heart palps

and from other sites I was on before this said my iron was low and I needed

to supplement to stop the heart palps. It has worked for the most part. I

have severe anxiety and depression and suicdal. I was originallly put on

anti-drpresseants and they made me crazy. I finally in March was diagnosed

with hashi and adrenal problems but still don't feel goo. I cannot get my

armour up to 3 grains without have such severe hyper symtoms. That is why I

say I am hyper because I go back and forth. That is part of hashi's

Thanks

Ellen

Re: Re: Copper, Zinc, Iron, Selenium, and Iodine

> >From: " Ellen " <maryellenmu@...>

>

>>I have hashi's that is why I was looking at the copper. I stay hyper most

>>of the time and cannot >raise my armour becaus of it. I have had my

>>ferritan and iron levels checked. I was 45 and now >100 something. So

>>it

>>is not the iron that is giving me so many problems. I still take iron.

>

> Or perhaps you have too much iron?

>

> The following talks about a person misdiagnosed with hepatitis C when they

> really just had iron overload -

>

> http://sites.mercola.com/2003/apr/2/iron.htm

> When I finally drew this man's ferritin level in my office it was

> 1000--the

> second highest I have ever seen. A good number is 50. Anything above 100

> should be treated, and anything above 300 to 400 is normally considered to

> be a problem by traditional doctors. So let me provide further expansion

> on

> the relationship between hepatitis C and iron toxicity. "

>

> This is only one doctor's (Mercola) opinion, of course -

>

> http://www.mercola.com/2000/jan/9/most_prevalent_inherited_disease.htm

> " Iron can be a very damaging supplement and must be used with great

> caution.

> I would never recommend iron supplementation unless one confirms that the

> serum ferritin level is below 20. "

>

> I wonder why you were told to take iron in the first place. Usually,

> someone with anemia, or mild anemia showing on their lab will be told to

> take iron, but just because one has anemia doesn't mean the cause is iron

> deficiency, and for some pople with anemia (e.g those whose anemia is

> caused

> by thalassemia or hypothyroidism) taking iron is probably

> not

> a good idea.

>

> Ray Peat a biochemist, has made some interesting comments on iron (which

> my

> thyroid doctor gave to me,and which was the reason I didn't give iron to

> my

> son when the family doc suggested it, and I later found out he had

> thalassemia, so it's a good thing I didn't) -

>

> http://tinyurl.com/njnbf

> " In the 1960s the World Health Organization found that when iron

> supplements

> were given to anemic people in Africa, there was a great increase in the

> death rate from infectious diseases, especially malaria. Around the same

> time, research began to show that the regulation of iron is a central

> function of the immune system, and that this seems to have evolved because

> iron is a basic requirement for the survival and growth of cells of all

> types, including bacteria, parasites, and cancer. The pioneer researcher

> in

> the role of iron in immunity believed that an excess of dietary iron

> contributed to the development of leukemia and lymphatic cancers. Just

> like

> lead, mercury, cadmium, nickel and other heavy metals, stored iron

> produces

> destructive free radicals. The harmful effects of iron-produced free

> radicals are practically indistinguishable from those caused by exposure

> to

> X-rays and gamma rays; both accelerate the accumulation of age-pigment and

> other signs of aging. Excess iron is a crucial element in the

> transformation

> of stress into tissue damage by free radicals. "

>

> Too much iron would also follow 's theory, since you quoted ithyroid -

>

> http://www.ithyroid.com/iron.htm

> " Hemochromatosis is a disease of iron accumulation with resultant damage

> to

> the liver, pancreas, heart, and pituitary. Premenopausal women are

> protected from getting it because of menstrual blood loss. While many

> people believe it is a hereditary disease, I believe it is a disease of

> copper deficiency. When copper gets deficient, the body can't use iron

> so

> it accumulates and causes damage. The disease is also called siderosis,

> which is characterized by a gray pallor to the skin from iron accumulation

> in the tissue. "

>

> It is an interesting theory.

>

> By the way, why do you call yourself " hyper " as it's unlikely the doctor

> would let you continue thyroid meds if he felt you were?

>

> Skipper

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Call friends with PC-to-PC calling -- FREE

>

http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us & source=wlmai\

ltagline

>

>

>

> Iodine

[Guest guest]

So after reading all that and the supplement site. What should I do. What

do you do for your hashi's. Do you feel better with what you are taking. I

mostly have to self treat because I cannot find doctors to run the tests I

need.

Do you have any suggetions. I definitely do not feel i know everything that

is happening but I am searching for the answers. I get different answers

from everyone. That is why this is so hard to do.

What meds and minerals do you take. How do you find what minerals that you

needs. Are there tests or what. I don't want to hurt myself but I am

deficient in something. How do I find out what it is?

Thanks. Sorry for the frustration. I have been sick for a long time and

just diagnosed back in March and nothing is making me any better.

Ellen

Re: Re: Copper, Zinc, Iron, Selenium, and Iodine

> >From: " Ellen " <maryellenmu@...>

>

>>I have hashi's that is why I was looking at the copper. I stay hyper most

>>of the time and cannot >raise my armour becaus of it. I have had my

>>ferritan and iron levels checked. I was 45 and now >100 something. So

>>it

>>is not the iron that is giving me so many problems. I still take iron.

>

> Or perhaps you have too much iron?

>

> The following talks about a person misdiagnosed with hepatitis C when they

> really just had iron overload -

>

> http://sites.mercola.com/2003/apr/2/iron.htm

> When I finally drew this man's ferritin level in my office it was

> 1000--the

> second highest I have ever seen. A good number is 50. Anything above 100

> should be treated, and anything above 300 to 400 is normally considered to

> be a problem by traditional doctors. So let me provide further expansion

> on

> the relationship between hepatitis C and iron toxicity. "

>

> This is only one doctor's (Mercola) opinion, of course -

>

> http://www.mercola.com/2000/jan/9/most_prevalent_inherited_disease.htm

> " Iron can be a very damaging supplement and must be used with great

> caution.

> I would never recommend iron supplementation unless one confirms that the

> serum ferritin level is below 20. "

>

> I wonder why you were told to take iron in the first place. Usually,

> someone with anemia, or mild anemia showing on their lab will be told to

> take iron, but just because one has anemia doesn't mean the cause is iron

> deficiency, and for some pople with anemia (e.g those whose anemia is

> caused

> by thalassemia or hypothyroidism) taking iron is probably

> not

> a good idea.

>

> Ray Peat a biochemist, has made some interesting comments on iron (which

> my

> thyroid doctor gave to me,and which was the reason I didn't give iron to

> my

> son when the family doc suggested it, and I later found out he had

> thalassemia, so it's a good thing I didn't) -

>

> http://tinyurl.com/njnbf

> " In the 1960s the World Health Organization found that when iron

> supplements

> were given to anemic people in Africa, there was a great increase in the

> death rate from infectious diseases, especially malaria. Around the same

> time, research began to show that the regulation of iron is a central

> function of the immune system, and that this seems to have evolved because

> iron is a basic requirement for the survival and growth of cells of all

> types, including bacteria, parasites, and cancer. The pioneer researcher

> in

> the role of iron in immunity believed that an excess of dietary iron

> contributed to the development of leukemia and lymphatic cancers. Just

> like

> lead, mercury, cadmium, nickel and other heavy metals, stored iron

> produces

> destructive free radicals. The harmful effects of iron-produced free

> radicals are practically indistinguishable from those caused by exposure

> to

> X-rays and gamma rays; both accelerate the accumulation of age-pigment and

> other signs of aging. Excess iron is a crucial element in the

> transformation

> of stress into tissue damage by free radicals. "

>

> Too much iron would also follow 's theory, since you quoted ithyroid -

>

> http://www.ithyroid.com/iron.htm

> " Hemochromatosis is a disease of iron accumulation with resultant damage

> to

> the liver, pancreas, heart, and pituitary. Premenopausal women are

> protected from getting it because of menstrual blood loss. While many

> people believe it is a hereditary disease, I believe it is a disease of

> copper deficiency. When copper gets deficient, the body can't use iron

> so

> it accumulates and causes damage. The disease is also called siderosis,

> which is characterized by a gray pallor to the skin from iron accumulation

> in the tissue. "

>

> It is an interesting theory.

>

> By the way, why do you call yourself " hyper " as it's unlikely the doctor

> would let you continue thyroid meds if he felt you were?

>

> Skipper

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Call friends with PC-to-PC calling -- FREE

>

http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us & source=wlmai\

ltagline

>

>

>

> Iodine

[Guest guest]

Wish I could help, Ellen, but you have exceeded my knowledge. Here are some thoughts, but please keep in mind that I am not an expert on this.

First, ask on the Natural Thyroid Hormones group about the copper and iron. They probably know about this. And let us know what you learn.

Your iron sounds high to me. I would consider reducing it.

Copper is a tricky mineral. Many people think you should never supplement with it unless you have a clear deficiency. So I would be cautious. Since you have Hashi's, I would go by the guidelines for hypo on the ithyroid info. Even though with Hashi's, there is a tendency to bounce back and forth between hyper and hypo, it is usually associated with hypo conditions. So, I wouldn't recommend supplementing with it unless you learn something more. A hair test might be a way to get a general reading on copper and other mineral levels. Doctor's Data has a good one.

You might try writing "" on the ithyroid site. He probably has a "contact me" link on his site somewhere.

The only supplements that seem strongly linked with iodine are magnesium, selenium, and Vitamin C. Otherwise, just a good basic multiple seems OK before starting iodine supplementation. Abraham always uses the supplements he created as a reference for what he thinks is essential for a "good nutritional program". Here is the page where he lists what is in his supplement for women: http://www.optimox.com/pics/Optivite.html

Wish I could be more helpful.

Zoe

I have hashi's that is why I was looking at the copper. I stay hyper most of the time and cannot raise my armour becaus of it. I have had my ferritan and iron levels checked. I was 45 and now 100 something. So it is not the iron that is giving me so many problems. I still take iron. Printed of this whole thing and have been studying it. I wish I had hypo it is esier to treat. I thought I would try the copper and and the zinc later to get rif of the hyper symtoms.

That is the basis of what I got from all this. Do you agree.

Thanks

Ellen

[Guest guest]

Thanks Zoe, I understand this is diffficult stuff.

We just keep researching don't we.

Take care

Ellen

Re: Re: Copper, Zinc, Iron, Selenium, and Iodine

Wish I could help, Ellen, but you have exceeded my knowledge. Here are some thoughts, but please keep in mind that I am not an expert on this.

First, ask on the Natural Thyroid Hormones group about the copper and iron. They probably know about this. And let us know what you learn.

Your iron sounds high to me. I would consider reducing it.

Copper is a tricky mineral. Many people think you should never supplement with it unless you have a clear deficiency. So I would be cautious. Since you have Hashi's, I would go by the guidelines for hypo on the ithyroid info. Even though with Hashi's, there is a tendency to bounce back and forth between hyper and hypo, it is usually associated with hypo conditions. So, I wouldn't recommend supplementing with it unless you learn something more. A hair test might be a way to get a general reading on copper and other mineral levels. Doctor's Data has a good one.

You might try writing "" on the ithyroid site. He probably has a "contact me" link on his site somewhere.

The only supplements that seem strongly linked with iodine are magnesium, selenium, and Vitamin C. Otherwise, just a good basic multiple seems OK before starting iodine supplementation. Abraham always uses the supplements he created as a reference for what he thinks is essential for a "good nutritional program". Here is the page where he lists what is in his supplement for women: http://www.optimox.com/pics/Optivite.html

Wish I could be more helpful.

Zoe

I have hashi's that is why I was looking at the copper. I stay hyper most of the time and cannot raise my armour becaus of it. I have had my ferritan and iron levels checked. I was 45 and now 100 something. So it is not the iron that is giving me so many problems. I still take iron. Printed of this whole thing and have been studying it. I wish I had hypo it is esier to treat. I thought I would try the copper and and the zinc later to get rif of the hyper symtoms.

That is the basis of what I got from all this. Do you agree.

Thanks

Ellen

[Guest guest]

the best treatments for hyper symptoms that I know of are iodine high dose and cortisol. I have been hyper 2X as well as hypo.

Gracia

I have hashi's that is why I was looking at the copper. I stay hyper most of the time and cannot raise my armour becaus of it. I have had my ferritan and iron levels checked. I was 45 and now 100 something. So it is not the iron that is giving me so many problems. I still take iron. Printed of this whole thing and have been studying it. I wish I had hypo it is esier to treat. I thought I would try the copper and and the zinc later to get rif of the hyper symtoms.

That is the basis of what I got from all this. Do you agree.

Thanks

Ellen

Re: Copper, Zinc, Iron, Selenium, and Iodine

I wish I had read ths a few days ago. My doc told me yesterday that my rash was either an alleric reaction or I need selenium, even thuogh I'm only on 2 1/2 mgs. of iodine thanks for the info. Debbie In iodine , "Zoe & " <ZOEA@...> wrote:>> Thank you, Ellen, for the link. It is from the ithryroid site, which is from one person's opinion ("" - http://www.ithyroid.com/john.htm). I've found this site to be very informative and generally good information. I find this list of supplements -- and his comments -- very interesting and thought-provoking.> > I've included below quotes from that page that seem to be relevant. I've highlighted in red the sections that seem especially relevant.> > He has proposed an entire supplement program here and recommends that people follow the entire protocol and not pick and choose individual supplements.> > Ellen, you seemed to be particularly interested in copper and iron.> > With copper, he seems to give almost opposite recommendation depending on whether you are hyper or hypo. I seem to recall that you are hypo, Ellen. Is that correct? If so, copper does not seem to be particularly relevant, and you may already have too much. I don't know of any test to accurately test copper levels. [is there anyone on the group that knows how to accurately measure copper levels?] If you are supplementing with zinc, you may need to take small amounts of copper, too. > > Iron is often low in hypos. However, you should check your ferritin levels (a better way to measure iron than regular iron blood tests) before supplementing. Most people seem to see ferritin levels about 70-90 as ideal for hypos.> > Here are the quotes from his site:> LIST OF SUPPLEMENTS> > Thyroid conditions, especially hyperthyroidism, are characterized by serious nutritional deficiencies. The following list of supplements helped me and others to recover from hyperthyroidism and hypothyroidism and are important to correct the nutritional deficiencies which seem to cause these thyroid conditions. All of these nutrients have been shown to be essential for human life. While hypos may do well by selecting a good multiple vitamin/mineral supplement and adding to it as necessary, hypers have found it necessary to obtain these supplements singly so that the ratios can be changed as needed and so that certain minerals like manganese and iodine can be avoided until the body can once again tolerate these. This list is not intended as a "buffet" from which you can pick and choose. I consider each nutrient listed here important and possibly necessary for improving the thyroid diseases.> > COPPER> > (Copper seems to be the most important mineral for hypers to take. Copper deficiency has been shown to cause elevated levels of thyroid hormones. It is also essential for monoamine oxidase production which degrades hormones after they have fulfilled their function. Take on full stomach, since it may produce nausea at first.)> > HYPERS: 6-10 mg per day. Copper is the most important mineral for hyperT, so take copper first.> > HYPOS: 0-3 mg per day. Hypos may have excess copper which is suppressing the thyroid.> > IODINE> > (Kelp) (Most essential mineral for thyroid hormone production--deficiency of iodine and/or selenium causes goiter, a swelling of the thyroid gland. A goiter is the body's attempt to increase the production of thyroid hormones from an inadequate supply of nutrients. Replenishing those nutrients will enable the body to resorb the goitrous tissue and allow the thyroid to return to its normal size.)> > HYPERS: Don't take iodine or kelp until copper is built up. In cases of goiter, supplementing with iodine with insufficient selenium will make the goiter worse. Once copper has been supplemented for awhile, test with one kelp tablet. If hyper symptoms are not increased, gradually increase the kelp up to 6 tablets per day.> > HYPOS: Start with one tablet per day and build up slowly to 6 tablets per day> > IRON> > (Iron is a critical mineral, because while it is very necessary and often low in thyroid disease, iron intake without a corresponding intake of copper can deplete copper. Iron works with copper to build hemoglobin, so therefore too much of either can deplete the other. Usually in hyperthyroidism, copper is deficient and has to be built up first. Once it is replenished, iron supplementation with the copper (probably in a ratio of no more than 5:1, iron:copper) will then help both minerals get built up. If hyper symptoms increase, stop or reduce the iron.) In hypothyroidism, iron is probably more deficient than copper and so should be supplemented first. Once iron is built up then a small amount (2-3 mg) of copper can be added. Iron increases body temperature by increasing norepinephrine and increasing cellular oxygen, which helps the low body temperature problem in hypothyroidism. Iron is known as the strength mineral.)> > HYPERS: After copper has been supplemented for a few days, try a small amount of iron. Gradually increase to about 18 mg.> > HYPOS: Take 18-36 mg per day.> > SELENIUM> > (The essential mineral component of 5'-deiodinase enzymes which convert the prohormone T4 to the cellular active hormone T3. Deficiency of selenium will cause "low T3 Syndrome" where T4 levels are normal but T3 is low. Selenium and/or iodine deficiencies cause goiter. Selenium is the most important mineral to counter the toxic effects of heavy metals. Selenium is essential for production of glutathione peroxidase which is one of the three most important antioxidant defenses of the body. Can be toxic at levels of over 1000 mcg per day. Goiter will result from a selenium deficiency (or iodine deficiency), and many hypers and hypos have goiter.)> > *Note July 4, 2001: A recent study indicates that selenium in the form of selenomethionine is not absorbed as well as selenium from foods. I have used selenomethionine consistently throughout my recovery and feel that it must work. However, if you suspect that you are not getting enough selenium from your selenomethionine supplement, you may want to try a yeast-based selenium. Some people are concerned, as I was, that excess yeast may not be good, especially if they have candida. I believe that candida will respond to correcting iron-deficiency anemia and that a yeast-based selenium might be worth trying even if you have candida. I have been trying a yeast-based selenium for a few weeks and haven't noticed much difference. However, you may want to experiment with both forms to see which works better for you.> > HYPERS: Take 200-600 mcg per day. If you have a known high level of mercury or other toxic metal, consider taking more. Start at 100 mcg and work up slowly.> > HYPOS: Take 200-600 mcg of selenium per day. Mercury in silver amalgam fillings uses up selenium for detoxification. High amounts of amalgam fillings may require more selenium. Don't take over 600 mcg. per day unless you have an unusually large amount of amalgam fillings (more than 8).> > ZINC> > (Works with copper, but also may increase thyroid function. This mechanism is unknown, but zinc may spare selenium because it also detoxifies heavy metals. May increase progesterone production, which stimulates thyroid hormone production. The optimum zinc to copper ratio is about 8:1, but hypers need a lower ratio and hypos a higher ratio. Take on full stomach since it may cause nausea. Take in morning as it may keep you awake if taken at night.)> > HYPERS: After copper and iron are built up some, try a small amount of zinc. If tolerated take one to five milligrams of zinc per milligram of copper. If hyper symptoms increase, suspect zinc and reduce amount taken. Premenopausal women may find it better to supplement zinc during the first half of the month and use less or no zinc during the second half.> > HYPOS: Take 30-100 mg of zinc to increase thyroid production. If rapid heart beat is felt at night or early morning, decrease zinc.> > TRACE ELEMENTS> > (Contains small amounts of all minerals. May be important in supplying unknown necessary trace elements. Ionized form best, colloidal form second best. Trace elements can also be obtained from seafoods.)> > HYPERS: Supplement with recommended amount unless the iodine, manganese, or zinc content increase hyper symptoms. If so, take sporadically. If you can't tolerate this at all, take copper and molybdenum until copper is built up and then re-try.> > HYPOS: Take recommended amount.> > http://www.ithyroid.com/supplements.htm> > > > > > http://www.ithyroid.com/supplements.htm> > Read it carefully and let me know what you think.> > Ellen> > It does say in the links about vitamins that you need to get your copper an iron up before your start idodine.> > > > Ellen> >>

No virus found in this outgoing message.

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[Guest guest]

Magnesium is supposed to be good for hyperthyroid as well as anxiety.

http://www.ithyroid.com/magnesium.htm

Irene

At 01:10 PM 9/1/2006, you wrote:

I bounce back and forth from

hyper to hypo. My understanding is my hashi

patients do. I live mostly hyper very seldom go hypo. My doctor said I

would eventually go hypo after awhile. The reason I take low does of iron

is because I needed to get it into the 90 range. I had severe heart palps

and from other sites I was on before this said my iron was low and I

needed

to supplement to stop the heart palps. It has worked for the most part. I

have severe anxiety and depression and suicdal. I was originallly put on

anti-drpresseants and they made me crazy. I finally in March was

diagnosed

with hashi and adrenal problems but still don't feel goo. I cannot get my

armour up to 3 grains without have such severe hyper symtoms. That is why

I

say I am hyper because I go back and forth. That is part of

hashi's

Thanks

Ellen

Re: Re: Copper, Zinc, Iron, Selenium, and

Iodine

> >From: " Ellen "

<maryellenmu@...>

>

>>I have hashi's that is why I was looking at the copper. I stay

hyper most

>>of the time and cannot >raise my armour becaus of it. I have

had my

>>ferritan and iron levels checked. I was 45 and now >100

something. So

>>it

>>is not the iron that is giving me so many problems. I still take

iron.

>

> Or perhaps you have too much iron?

>

> The following talks about a person misdiagnosed with hepatitis C

when they

> really just had iron overload -

>

>

http://sites.mercola.com/2003/apr/2/iron.htm

> When I finally drew this man's ferritin level in my office it was

> 1000--the

> second highest I have ever seen. A good number is 50. Anything above

100

> should be treated, and anything above 300 to 400 is normally

considered to

> be a problem by traditional doctors. So let me provide further

expansion

> on

> the relationship between hepatitis C and iron toxicity. "

>

> This is only one doctor's (Mercola) opinion, of course -

>

>

http://www.mercola.com/2000/jan/9/most_prevalent_inherited_disease.htm

> " Iron can be a very damaging supplement and must be used with

great

> caution.

> I would never recommend iron supplementation unless one confirms

that the

> serum ferritin level is below 20. "

>

> I wonder why you were told to take iron in the first place.

Usually,

> someone with anemia, or mild anemia showing on their lab will be

told to

> take iron, but just because one has anemia doesn't mean the cause is

iron

> deficiency, and for some pople with anemia (e.g those whose anemia

is

> caused

> by thalassemia or hypothyroidism) taking iron is probably

> not

> a good idea.

>

> Ray Peat a biochemist, has made some interesting comments on iron

(which

> my

> thyroid doctor gave to me,and which was the reason I didn't give

iron to

> my

> son when the family doc suggested it, and I later found out he

had

> thalassemia, so it's a good thing I didn't) -

>

> http://tinyurl.com/njnbf

> " In the 1960s the World Health Organization found that when

iron

> supplements

> were given to anemic people in Africa, there was a great increase in

the

> death rate from infectious diseases, especially malaria. Around the

same

> time, research began to show that the regulation of iron is a

central

> function of the immune system, and that this seems to have evolved

because

> iron is a basic requirement for the survival and growth of cells of

all

> types, including bacteria, parasites, and cancer. The pioneer

researcher

> in

> the role of iron in immunity believed that an excess of dietary

iron

> contributed to the development of leukemia and lymphatic cancers.

Just

> like

> lead, mercury, cadmium, nickel and other heavy metals, stored iron

> produces

> destructive free radicals. The harmful effects of iron-produced

free

> radicals are practically indistinguishable from those caused by

exposure

> to

> X-rays and gamma rays; both accelerate the accumulation of

age-pigment and

> other signs of aging. Excess iron is a crucial element in the

> transformation

> of stress into tissue damage by free radicals. "

>

> Too much iron would also follow 's theory, since you quoted

ithyroid -

>

>

http://www.ithyroid.com/iron.htm

> " Hemochromatosis is a disease of iron accumulation with

resultant damage

> to

> the liver, pancreas, heart, and pituitary. Premenopausal women

are

> protected from getting it because of menstrual blood loss. While

many

> people believe it is a hereditary disease, I believe it is a disease

of

> copper deficiency. When copper gets deficient, the body can't use

iron

> so

> it accumulates and causes damage. The disease is also called

siderosis,

> which is characterized by a gray pallor to the skin from iron

accumulation

> in the tissue. "

>

> It is an interesting theory.

>

> By the way, why do you call yourself " hyper " as it's

unlikely the doctor

> would let you continue thyroid meds if he felt you were?

>

> Skipper

>

> __________________________________________________________

> Call friends with PC-to-PC calling -- FREE

>

http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us & source=wlmailtagline

>

>

>

> Iodine

[Guest guest]

I just read more of your details and take back what I said about under treated

thyroid! My whole

family has Hashimoto's, none of us go hyper ever. Are you sure you are not

taking TOO MUCH

Armour? What does your blood work say? Also your ferritin sounds really,

really high. I have

read that 80 is way high. You better do some more research on this... you could

be hurting

yourself.

" Ferritin is an iron carrying protein and when its levels drop below 20 that is

a sign of iron

deficiency. I have seen ferritin levels as low as 2. Occasionally ferritin will

be greater than 20

and the person still may need iron. Those with inflammatory conditions such as

rheumatoid

arthritis, will have falsely elevated ferritin levels. "

http://www.mercola.com/2001/mar/7/iron_overload.htm

--- Irene.M@... wrote:

> Magnesium is supposed to be good for hyperthyroid as well as anxiety.

> http://www.ithyroid.com/magnesium.htm

>

> Irene

>

>

> At 01:10 PM 9/1/2006, you wrote:

>

> >I bounce back and forth from hyper to hypo. My understanding is my hashi

> >patients do. I live mostly hyper very seldom go hypo. My doctor said I

> >would eventually go hypo after awhile. The reason I take low does of iron

> >is because I needed to get it into the 90 range. I had severe heart palps

> >and from other sites I was on before this said my iron was low and I needed

> >to supplement to stop the heart palps. It has worked for the most part. I

> >have severe anxiety and depression and suicdal. I was originallly put on

> >anti-drpresseants and they made me crazy. I finally in March was diagnosed

> >with hashi and adrenal problems but still don't feel goo. I cannot get my

> >armour up to 3 grains without have such severe hyper symtoms. That is why I

> >say I am hyper because I go back and forth. That is part of hashi's

> >

> >Thanks

> > Ellen

> > Re: Re: Copper, Zinc, Iron, Selenium, and Iodine

> >

> > > >From: " Ellen "

> > <<mailto:maryellenmu%40bellsouth.net>maryellenmu@...>

> > >

> > >>I have hashi's that is why I was looking at the copper. I stay hyper most

> > >>of the time and cannot >raise my armour becaus of it. I have had my

> > >>ferritan and iron levels checked. I was 45 and now >100 something. So

> > >>it

> > >>is not the iron that is giving me so many problems. I still take iron.

> > >

> > > Or perhaps you have too much iron?

> > >

> > > The following talks about a person misdiagnosed with hepatitis C when they

> > > really just had iron overload -

> > >

> > >

> >

<http://sites.mercola.com/2003/apr/2/iron.htm>http://sites.mercola.com/2003/apr/\

2/iron.htm

> > > When I finally drew this man's ferritin level in my office it was

> > > 1000--the

> > > second highest I have ever seen. A good number is 50. Anything above 100

> > > should be treated, and anything above 300 to 400 is normally considered to

> > > be a problem by traditional doctors. So let me provide further expansion

> > > on

> > > the relationship between hepatitis C and iron toxicity. "

> > >

> > > This is only one doctor's (Mercola) opinion, of course -

> > >

> > >

> >

>

<http://www.mercola.com/2000/jan/9/most_prevalent_inherited_disease.htm>http://w\

ww.mercola.com/2000/jan/9/most_prevalent_inherited_disease.htm

> > > " Iron can be a very damaging supplement and must be used with great

> > > caution.

> > > I would never recommend iron supplementation unless one confirms that the

> > > serum ferritin level is below 20. "

> > >

> > > I wonder why you were told to take iron in the first place. Usually,

> > > someone with anemia, or mild anemia showing on their lab will be told to

> > > take iron, but just because one has anemia doesn't mean the cause is iron

> > > deficiency, and for some pople with anemia (e.g those whose anemia is

> > > caused

> > > by thalassemia or hypothyroidism) taking iron is probably

> > > not

> > > a good idea.

> > >

> > > Ray Peat a biochemist, has made some interesting comments on iron (which

> > > my

> > > thyroid doctor gave to me,and which was the reason I didn't give iron to

> > > my

> > > son when the family doc suggested it, and I later found out he had

> > > thalassemia, so it's a good thing I didn't) -

> > >

> > > <http://tinyurl.com/njnbf>http://tinyurl.com/njnbf

> > > " In the 1960s the World Health Organization found that when iron

> > > supplements

> > > were given to anemic people in Africa, there was a great increase in the

> > > death rate from infectious diseases, especially malaria. Around the same

> > > time, research began to show that the regulation of iron is a central

> > > function of the immune system, and that this seems to have evolved because

> > > iron is a basic requirement for the survival and growth of cells of all

> > > types, including bacteria, parasites, and cancer. The pioneer researcher

> > > in

> > > the role of iron in immunity believed that an excess of dietary iron

> > > contributed to the development of leukemia and lymphatic cancers. Just

> > > like

> > > lead, mercury, cadmium, nickel and other heavy metals, stored iron

> > > produces

> > > destructive free radicals. The harmful effects of iron-produced free

> > > radicals are practically indistinguishable from those caused by exposure

> > > to

> > > X-rays and gamma rays; both accelerate the accumulation of age-pigment and

> > > other signs of aging. Excess iron is a crucial element in the

> > > transformation

> > > of stress into tissue damage by free radicals. "

> > >

> > > Too much iron would also follow 's theory, since you quoted ithyroid -

> > >

> > > <http://www.ithyroid.com/iron.htm>http://www.ithyroid.com/iron.htm

> > > " Hemochromatosis is a disease of iron accumulation with resultant damage

> > > to

> > > the liver, pancreas, heart, and pituitary. Premenopausal women are

> > > protected from getting it because of menstrual blood loss. While many

> > > people believe it is a hereditary disease, I believe it is a disease of

> > > copper deficiency. When copper gets deficient, the body can't use iron

> > > so

> > > it accumulates and causes damage. The disease is also called siderosis,

> > > which is characterized by a gray pallor to the skin from iron accumulation

> > > in the tissue. "

> > >

> > > It is an interesting theory.

> > >

> > > By the way, why do you call yourself " hyper " as it's unlikely the doctor

> > > would let you continue thyroid meds if he felt you were?

> > >

> > > Skipper

> > >

> > > __________________________________________________________

> > > Call friends with PC-to-PC calling -- FREE

> > >

> >

>

<http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us & source=wlma\

iltagline>http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us & so\

urce=wlmailtagline

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Iodine

[Guest guest]

II am on only 2 1/2 grains of amrour. How do you control your hashi's...the

last time I checked my T3 and T4 were highand the doctor lowered it. Maybe the

iron is making it get to much into my cells . Do yyou have adrenal fatigue

too. I do and am dealing with that too. I cannot do much because of the

adrenal problesm. Thanks I will look into this.

My total iron id 1114 (ref ranges 35-175) ferritin is 172 (ref. 10-232) Free

T4 144 (ref. 60-181) Free /T3 448 (re. 230-420)

Thought this would help you see what is going on. These last test were8/8/06

Thanks

Ellen

>

> From: <kennio@...>

> Date: 2006/09/02 Sat AM 03:24:19 EDT

> iodine

> Subject: Re: Re: Copper, Zinc, Iron, Selenium, and Iodine

>

> I just read more of your details and take back what I said about under treated

thyroid! My whole

> family has Hashimoto's, none of us go hyper ever. Are you sure you are not

taking TOO MUCH

> Armour? What does your blood work say? Also your ferritin sounds really,

really high. I have

> read that 80 is way high. You better do some more research on this... you

could be hurting

> yourself.

>

> " Ferritin is an iron carrying protein and when its levels drop below 20 that

is a sign of iron

> deficiency. I have seen ferritin levels as low as 2. Occasionally ferritin

will be greater than 20

> and the person still may need iron. Those with inflammatory conditions such as

rheumatoid

> arthritis, will have falsely elevated ferritin levels. "

>

> http://www.mercola.com/2001/mar/7/iron_overload.htm

>

> --- Irene.M@... wrote:

>

> > Magnesium is supposed to be good for hyperthyroid as well as anxiety.

> > http://www.ithyroid.com/magnesium.htm

> >

> > Irene

> >

> >

> > At 01:10 PM 9/1/2006, you wrote:

> >

> > >I bounce back and forth from hyper to hypo. My understanding is my hashi

> > >patients do. I live mostly hyper very seldom go hypo. My doctor said I

> > >would eventually go hypo after awhile. The reason I take low does of iron

> > >is because I needed to get it into the 90 range. I had severe heart palps

> > >and from other sites I was on before this said my iron was low and I needed

> > >to supplement to stop the heart palps. It has worked for the most part. I

> > >have severe anxiety and depression and suicdal. I was originallly put on

> > >anti-drpresseants and they made me crazy. I finally in March was diagnosed

> > >with hashi and adrenal problems but still don't feel goo. I cannot get my

> > >armour up to 3 grains without have such severe hyper symtoms. That is why I

> > >say I am hyper because I go back and forth. That is part of hashi's

> > >

> > >Thanks

> > > Ellen

> > > Re: Re: Copper, Zinc, Iron, Selenium, and Iodine

> > >

> > > > >From: " Ellen "

> > > <<mailto:maryellenmu%40bellsouth.net>maryellenmu@...>

> > > >

> > > >>I have hashi's that is why I was looking at the copper. I stay hyper

most

> > > >>of the time and cannot >raise my armour becaus of it. I have had my

> > > >>ferritan and iron levels checked. I was 45 and now >100 something. So

> > > >>it

> > > >>is not the iron that is giving me so many problems. I still take iron.

> > > >

> > > > Or perhaps you have too much iron?

> > > >

> > > > The following talks about a person misdiagnosed with hepatitis C when

they

> > > > really just had iron overload -

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

<http://sites.mercola.com/2003/apr/2/iron.htm>http://sites.mercola.com/2003/apr/\

2/iron.htm

> > > > When I finally drew this man's ferritin level in my office it was

> > > > 1000--the

> > > > second highest I have ever seen. A good number is 50. Anything above 100

> > > > should be treated, and anything above 300 to 400 is normally considered

to

> > > > be a problem by traditional doctors. So let me provide further expansion

> > > > on

> > > > the relationship between hepatitis C and iron toxicity. "

> > > >

> > > > This is only one doctor's (Mercola) opinion, of course -

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

<http://www.mercola.com/2000/jan/9/most_prevalent_inherited_disease.htm>http://w\

ww.mercola.com/2000/jan/9/most_prevalent_inherited_disease.htm

> > > > " Iron can be a very damaging supplement and must be used with great

> > > > caution.

> > > > I would never recommend iron supplementation unless one confirms that

the

> > > > serum ferritin level is below 20. "

> > > >

> > > > I wonder why you were told to take iron in the first place. Usually,

> > > > someone with anemia, or mild anemia showing on their lab will be told to

> > > > take iron, but just because one has anemia doesn't mean the cause is

iron

> > > > deficiency, and for some pople with anemia (e.g those whose anemia is

> > > > caused

> > > > by thalassemia or hypothyroidism) taking iron is probably

> > > > not

> > > > a good idea.

> > > >

> > > > Ray Peat a biochemist, has made some interesting comments on iron (which

> > > > my

> > > > thyroid doctor gave to me,and which was the reason I didn't give iron to

> > > > my

> > > > son when the family doc suggested it, and I later found out he had

> > > > thalassemia, so it's a good thing I didn't) -

> > > >

> > > > <http://tinyurl.com/njnbf>http://tinyurl.com/njnbf

> > > > " In the 1960s the World Health Organization found that when iron

> > > > supplements

> > > > were given to anemic people in Africa, there was a great increase in the

> > > > death rate from infectious diseases, especially malaria. Around the same

> > > > time, research began to show that the regulation of iron is a central

> > > > function of the immune system, and that this seems to have evolved

because

> > > > iron is a basic requirement for the survival and growth of cells of all

> > > > types, including bacteria, parasites, and cancer. The pioneer researcher

> > > > in

> > > > the role of iron in immunity believed that an excess of dietary iron

> > > > contributed to the development of leukemia and lymphatic cancers. Just

> > > > like

> > > > lead, mercury, cadmium, nickel and other heavy metals, stored iron

> > > > produces

> > > > destructive free radicals. The harmful effects of iron-produced free

> > > > radicals are practically indistinguishable from those caused by exposure

> > > > to

> > > > X-rays and gamma rays; both accelerate the accumulation of age-pigment

and

> > > > other signs of aging. Excess iron is a crucial element in the

> > > > transformation

> > > > of stress into tissue damage by free radicals. "

> > > >

> > > > Too much iron would also follow 's theory, since you quoted ithyroid

-

> > > >

> > > > <http://www.ithyroid.com/iron.htm>http://www.ithyroid.com/iron.htm

> > > > " Hemochromatosis is a disease of iron accumulation with resultant damage

> > > > to

> > > > the liver, pancreas, heart, and pituitary. Premenopausal women are

> > > > protected from getting it because of menstrual blood loss. While many

> > > > people believe it is a hereditary disease, I believe it is a disease of

> > > > copper deficiency. When copper gets deficient, the body can't use iron

> > > > so

> > > > it accumulates and causes damage. The disease is also called siderosis,

> > > > which is characterized by a gray pallor to the skin from iron

accumulation

> > > > in the tissue. "

> > > >

> > > > It is an interesting theory.

> > > >

> > > > By the way, why do you call yourself " hyper " as it's unlikely the doctor

> > > > would let you continue thyroid meds if he felt you were?

> > > >

> > > > Skipper

> > > >

> > > > __________________________________________________________

> > > > Call friends with PC-to-PC calling -- FREE

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

<http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us & source=wlma\

iltagline>http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us & so\

urce=wlmailtagline

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Iodine

[Guest guest]

>

>

> the best treatments for hyper symptoms that I know of are iodine

high dose and cortisol. I have been hyper 2X as well as hypo.

> Gracia

Cortisol may not be a real good treatment for hyperthyroidism. It

requires high doses and alleviates the hyperthyroidism by inhibiting

the conversion of T4 to T3. This can even beused to stop " thyroid

storm. "

However, those high doses aren't good for the adrenals and the HPA

axis, and would only be a short term solution.

It is possible that what you're talking about is the fact that those

with low cortisol, will find that when they produce adrenaline which

does things like escalate the heart rate, without cortisol to dampen

the response back to normal, heart rate can stay escalated. But,

that's a low cortisol issue and not a hyperthyroid one.

It's the reason some hypos are sensitive to even small increases in

thyroid hormone, because they don't have the cortisol they need.

In the archives, Dr. Bruce West made this comment -

" Doctors could get as high as a 90% cure rate with hyperthyroid

(overactive thyroid) by using what would be considered high doses of

iodine daily. "

Langer in " Solved the Riddle of Illness " mentioned that some people

who were hyperthyroid, even some who had their thyroids removed, were

that way due to a Vitamin C deficiency, which can in some cases

escalate the production of thyroid hormone.

Skipper

[Guest guest]

I always thought that cortisol helped by getting T3 into cells. Part of the prob is that T3 is high in the blood but not getting into cells. I would definately use iodine too.

Gracia

>> > the best treatments for hyper symptoms that I know of are iodinehigh dose and cortisol. I have been hyper 2X as well as hypo.> GraciaCortisol may not be a real good treatment for hyperthyroidism. Itrequires high doses and alleviates the hyperthyroidism by inhibitingthe conversion of T4 to T3. This can even beused to stop "thyroidstorm." However, those high doses aren't good for the adrenals and the HPAaxis, and would only be a short term solution.It is possible that what you're talking about is the fact that thosewith low cortisol, will find that when they produce adrenaline whichdoes things like escalate the heart rate, without cortisol to dampenthe response back to normal, heart rate can stay escalated. But,that's a low cortisol issue and not a hyperthyroid one. It's the reason some hypos are sensitive to even small increases inthyroid hormone, because they don't have the cortisol they need.In the archives, Dr. Bruce West made this comment -"Doctors could get as high as a 90% cure rate with hyperthyroid(overactive thyroid) by using what would be considered high doses ofiodine daily. "Langer in "Solved the Riddle of Illness" mentioned that some peoplewho were hyperthyroid, even some who had their thyroids removed, werethat way due to a Vitamin C deficiency, which can in some casesescalate the production of thyroid hormone.Skipper

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[Guest guest]

oh I should add that normal physiological doses of cortef, 5mg 4X a day, alleviated my hyper symptoms, and also everybody who tries it on the thyroidlists, gets relief.

gracia

>> > the best treatments for hyper symptoms that I know of are iodinehigh dose and cortisol. I have been hyper 2X as well as hypo.> GraciaCortisol may not be a real good treatment for hyperthyroidism. Itrequires high doses and alleviates the hyperthyroidism by inhibitingthe conversion of T4 to T3. This can even beused to stop "thyroidstorm." However, those high doses aren't good for the adrenals and the HPAaxis, and would only be a short term solution.It is possible that what you're talking about is the fact that thosewith low cortisol, will find that when they produce adrenaline whichdoes things like escalate the heart rate, without cortisol to dampenthe response back to normal, heart rate can stay escalated. But,that's a low cortisol issue and not a hyperthyroid one. It's the reason some hypos are sensitive to even small increases inthyroid hormone, because they don't have the cortisol they need.In the archives, Dr. Bruce West made this comment -"Doctors could get as high as a 90% cure rate with hyperthyroid(overactive thyroid) by using what would be considered high doses ofiodine daily. "Langer in "Solved the Riddle of Illness" mentioned that some peoplewho were hyperthyroid, even some who had their thyroids removed, werethat way due to a Vitamin C deficiency, which can in some casesescalate the production of thyroid hormone.Skipper

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[Guest guest]

Irene did you look at my post of my blood work.

Thank you

Ellen

Re: Re: Copper, Zinc, Iron, Selenium, and Iodine> >> > > >From: "Ellen" > > <<mailto:maryellenmu%40bellsouth.net>maryellenmubellsouth (DOT) net>> > >> > >>I have hashi's that is why I was looking at the copper. I stay hyper most> > >>of the time and cannot >raise my armour becaus of it. I have had my> > >>ferritan and iron levels checked. I was 45 and now >100 something. So> > >>it> > >>is not the iron that is giving me so many problems. I still take iron.> > >> > > Or perhaps you have too much iron?> > >> > > The following talks about a person misdiagnosed with hepatitis C when they> > > really just had iron overload -> > >> > > > > <http://sites.mercola.com/2003/apr/2/iron.htm>http://sites.mercola.com/2003/apr/2/iron.htm> > > When I finally drew this man's ferritin level in my office it was> > > 1000--the> > > second highest I have ever seen. A good number is 50. Anything above 100> > > should be treated, and anything above 300 to 400 is normally considered to> > > be a problem by traditional doctors. So let me provide further expansion> > > on> > > the relationship between hepatitis C and iron toxicity."> > >> > > This is only one doctor's (Mercola) opinion, of course -> > >> > > > >><http://www.mercola.com/2000/jan/9/most_prevalent_inherited_disease.htm>http://www.mercola.com/2000/jan/9/most_prevalent_inherited_disease.htm> > > "Iron can be a very damaging supplement and must be used with great> > > caution.> > > I would never recommend iron supplementation unless one confirms that the> > > serum ferritin level is below 20."> > >> > > I wonder why you were told to take iron in the first place. Usually,> > > someone with anemia, or mild anemia showing on their lab will be told to> > > take iron, but just because one has anemia doesn't mean the cause is iron> > > deficiency, and for some pople with anemia (e.g those whose anemia is> > > caused> > > by thalassemia or hypothyroidism) taking iron is probably> > > not> > > a good idea.> > >> > > Ray Peat a biochemist, has made some interesting comments on iron (which> > > my> > > thyroid doctor gave to me,and which was the reason I didn't give iron to> > > my> > > son when the family doc suggested it, and I later found out he had> > > thalassemia, so it's a good thing I didn't) -> > >> > > <http://tinyurl.com/njnbf>http://tinyurl.com/njnbf> > > "In the 1960s the World Health Organization found that when iron> > > supplements> > > were given to anemic people in Africa, there was a great increase in the> > > death rate from infectious diseases, especially malaria. Around the same> > > time, research began to show that the regulation of iron is a central> > > function of the immune system, and that this seems to have evolved because> > > iron is a basic requirement for the survival and growth of cells of all> > > types, including bacteria, parasites, and cancer. The pioneer researcher> > > in> > > the role of iron in immunity believed that an excess of dietary iron> > > contributed to the development of leukemia and lymphatic cancers. Just> > > like> > > lead, mercury, cadmium, nickel and other heavy metals, stored iron> > > produces> > > destructive free radicals. The harmful effects of iron-produced free> > > radicals are practically indistinguishable from those caused by exposure> > > to> > > X-rays and gamma rays; both accelerate the accumulation of age-pigment and> > > other signs of aging. Excess iron is a crucial element in the> > > transformation> > > of stress into tissue damage by free radicals."> > >> > > Too much iron would also follow 's theory, since you quoted ithyroid -> > >> > > <http://www.ithyroid.com/iron.htm>http://www.ithyroid.com/iron.htm> > > "Hemochromatosis is a disease of iron accumulation with resultant damage> > > to> > > the liver, pancreas, heart, and pituitary. Premenopausal women are> > > protected from getting it because of menstrual blood loss. While many> > > people believe it is a hereditary disease, I believe it is a disease of> > > copper deficiency. When copper gets deficient, the body can't use iron> > > so> > > it accumulates and causes damage. The disease is also called siderosis,> > > which is characterized by a gray pallor to the skin from iron accumulation> > > in the tissue."> > >> > > It is an interesting theory.> > >> > > By the way, why do you call yourself "hyper" as it's unlikely the doctor> > > would let you continue thyroid meds if he felt you were?> > >> > > Skipper> > >> > > __________________________________________________________> > > Call friends with PC-to-PC calling -- FREE> > > > >><http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us & source=wlmailtagline>http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us & source=wlmailtagline> > >> > >> > >> > > Iodine