Re: Re: using iodine with Hashi's

[Guest guest]

this is completely wrong. It's a belief system that has nothing to do with reality. this really needs to be refuted.

Gracia

You need to know before you start iodine that there are many of ushashi's who could not tolerate it. There are numerous studies outthere proving that it can cause problems for hashi's and that has beenmy experience as well.Also, many hashi's are positive for TSI antibodies which means theycan go into Grave's. And iodine is definitely contraindicated in thatcase.And there are many who will tell you that you just need to take a highenough dose and you won't have problems, but there are many hashi'swho have done that and regretted it.That being said, there are also many who have had great success withthe high dose iodine protocol, although the majority do not have hashi's.Now that you know both the up and down sides of it, you can at leastmake an informed decision as to whether or not to give it a try.And if you do, please do let us all know how it goes. >> What are the guildelines for folks that have hashis in terms of using> iodine?> > Thank you, in TN> > > > From: iodine [mailto:iodine ] OnBehalf Of> ladybugsandbees> Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 7:22 PM> iodine > Subject: Re: ladybugsandbees> > > > You need to order it from FFP Labs http://www.helpmythyroid.com/iodine.htm> The phone number is on this page. Tell them you have no Dr to orderit for> you and they will assign you to a nurse practitioner who will. Thenwhen> you get the results you can schedule a free consultation with Dr.Flechas.> > > > >

[Guest guest]

Thank you all for your imput on this. I am ordering Dr

Brownsteins book & go from there.

Is anyone aware of an ebook source for this book?

Thank you ,

From:

iodine [mailto:iodine ] On Behalf Of Gracia

Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 11:47 PM

iodine

Subject: Re: Re: using iodine with Hashi's

this

is completely wrong. It's a belief system that has nothing to do

with reality. this really needs to be refuted.

Gracia

You need to know before you start iodine that

there are many of us

hashi's who could not tolerate it. There are numerous studies out

there proving that it can cause problems for hashi's and that has been

my experience as well.

Also, many hashi's are positive for TSI antibodies which means they

can go into Grave's. And iodine is definitely contraindicated in that

case.

And there are many who will tell you that you just need to take a high

enough dose and you won't have problems, but there are many hashi's

who have done that and regretted it.

That being said, there are also many who have had great success with

the high dose iodine protocol, although the majority do not have hashi's.

Now that you know both the up and down sides of it, you can at least

make an informed decision as to whether or not to give it a try.

And if you do, please do let us all know how it goes.

>

> What are the guildelines for folks that have hashis in terms of using

> iodine?

>

> Thank you, in TN

>

>

>

> From: iodine

[mailto:iodine ]

On

Behalf Of

> ladybugsandbees

> Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 7:22 PM

> iodine

> Subject: Re: ladybugsandbees

>

>

>

> You need to order it from FFP Labs

http://www.helpmythyroid.com/iodine.htm

> The phone number is on this page. Tell them you have no Dr to order

it for

> you and they will assign you to a nurse practitioner who will. Then

when

> you get the results you can schedule a free consultation with Dr.

Flechas.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

No it does not exist. It is only in paper format. This is the book (and the chapter on autoimmune and Iodine ) is the one I helped him write in September.

Steph

Re: ladybugsandbees> > > > You need to order it from FFP Labs http://www.helpmythyroid.com/iodine.htm> The phone number is on this page. Tell them you have no Dr to orderit for> you and they will assign you to a nurse practitioner who will. Thenwhen> you get the results you can schedule a free consultation with Dr.Flechas.> > > > >

[Guest guest]

,

Thank you, you just saved me a lot of time looking for the

ebook.Hehe..

From:

iodine [mailto:iodine ] On Behalf Of ladybugsandbees

Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 12:16 PM

iodine

Subject: Re: Re: using iodine with Hashi's

No it does not

exist. It is only in paper format. This is the book (and the

chapter on autoimmune and Iodine ) is the one I helped him write in September.

Steph

-----

Original Message -----

From:

iodine

Sent: Monday, November 12,

2007 12:09 PM

Subject: RE: Re:

using iodine with Hashi's

Thank you all for your imput on this. I am ordering Dr

Brownsteins book & go from there.

Is anyone aware of an ebook source for this book?

Thank you ,

From: iodine

[mailto:iodine ] On Behalf Of Gracia

Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 11:47 PM

iodine

Subject: Re: Re: using iodine with Hashi's

this

is completely wrong. It's a belief system that has nothing to do

with reality. this really needs to be refuted.

Gracia

You need to know before you start iodine that

there are many of us

hashi's who could not tolerate it. There are numerous studies out

there proving that it can cause problems for hashi's and that has been

my experience as well.

Also, many hashi's are positive for TSI antibodies which means they

can go into Grave's. And iodine is definitely contraindicated in that

case.

And there are many who will tell you that you just need to take a high

enough dose and you won't have problems, but there are many hashi's

who have done that and regretted it.

That being said, there are also many who have had great success with

the high dose iodine protocol, although the majority do not have hashi's.

Now that you know both the up and down sides of it, you can at least

make an informed decision as to whether or not to give it a try.

And if you do, please do let us all know how it goes.

>

> What are the guildelines for folks that have hashis in terms of using

> iodine?

>

> Thank you, in TN

>

>

>

> From: iodine

[mailto:iodine ]

On

Behalf Of

> ladybugsandbees

> Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 7:22 PM

> iodine

> Subject: Re: ladybugsandbees

>

>

>

> You need to order it from FFP Labs

http://www.helpmythyroid.com/iodine.htm

> The phone number is on this page. Tell them you have no Dr to order

it for

> you and they will assign you to a nurse practitioner who will. Then

when

> you get the results you can schedule a free consultation with Dr.

Flechas.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You are welcome again. I often wish there were forms of all his books because I need to search for something I remember reading.

Steph

Re: ladybugsandbees> > > > You need to order it from FFP Labs http://www.helpmythyroid.com/iodine.htm> The phone number is on this page. Tell them you have no Dr to orderit for> you and they will assign you to a nurse practitioner who will. Thenwhen> you get the results you can schedule a free consultation with Dr.Flechas.> > > > >

[Guest guest]

if my memory serves me right--you took 10mg cortef and 1/4-1/2 grain of Armour, right? then you tried 12.5mg Iodoral?

you would be more successful with 5 mg cortef 4X a day. then add 25mg Iodoral 2X a day. then add Armour.

in your case the doses really were the prob. those doses would be a big prob for me too.

Gracia

Gracia,It most certainly is NOT completely wrong and I can tell you that Iand many other hashi's HAVE addressed the other concerns--adrenals,selenium, ferritin, you name it, took a high enough dose, yet STILLhad problems.If myself and other hashi's can acknowledge that the high dose iodineworks well for many, but that there is a subset of others who cannottolerate it regardless of doing all the 'right' things, why can younot acknowledge the same?Your thinking is very abolutist and therefore very unscientific. EvenBrownstein himself does not say that it works for everyone. Why doyou insist on trying to make everyone think that he does?> >> > What are the guildelines for folks that have hashis in terms ofusing> > iodine?> > > > Thank you, in TN> > > > > > > > From: iodine [mailto:iodine ] On> Behalf Of> > ladybugsandbees> > Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 7:22 PM> > iodine > > Subject: Re: ladybugsandbees> > > > > > > > You need to order it from FFP Labs > http://www.helpmythyroid.com/iodine.htm> > The phone number is on this page. Tell them you have no Dr to order> it for> > you and they will assign you to a nurse practitioner who will. Then> when> > you get the results you can schedule a free consultation with Dr.> Flechas.> > > > > > > > > >>

[Guest guest]

Have you addressed detoxification pathways and methylation? That is what

some of the clinicians are beginning to find is an issue.

Re: ladybugsandbees

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > You need to order it from FFP Labs

>> http://www.helpmythyroid.com/iodine.htm

>> > The phone number is on this page. Tell them you have no Dr to order

>> it for

>> > you and they will assign you to a nurse practitioner who will. Then

>> when

>> > you get the results you can schedule a free consultation with Dr.

>> Flechas.

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>>

>

>

>

>

> Send Message: iodine

>

> Iodine

[Guest guest]

Let's not get snotty here. He said that he uses 6 - 50 mgs (and we

discussed this when writing this) because he has children he is treating as

well - like mine who are on low doses along with patients who are somewhat

sensitive to it and they are started at a lower dose and worked up. He did

tell me that autoimmune people tend to have issues on lower doses of Iodine.

Keep in mind that this range is not necessarily for hashi's only. It is for

all patients.

Re: using iodine with Hashi's

> Gracia,

> Why does Brownstein say in his 3rd edition of his book that in his

> clinical practice - that the iodine doses are 6 mg. - 50 mg.?

>

> did he just fail to consult with you first?

> cindi

>

[Guest guest]

It is becoming apparent that the Iodine docs did not anticipate the reaction

that would occur when supplementing with higher doses of iodine. At the

last conference this was a huge topic of discussion. I am finishing up

viewing the DVD's from the Feb conf and I can see that they were beginning

to think about it but by October it was a full blown issue. They are

working on further tests that will become available as they validate them

that will measure toxin levels in individuals when given iodine.

Interestingly, there was a pair of Dr's that spoke at the Feb conference

that stated they had not had as many issues as the other doctors were

relating with detox issues. They were alluding to the fact that the first

thing they do with all patients was to evaluate the Phase I and Phase II

detoxification pathways, status of the gut and also nutrient levels. This

they believed helped because the patient was then able to easily detox with

the appropriate support along with coordinating nutrients that effectively

allowed the body to use the iodine once it was added.

I am finding that detoxification is a huge thing for me but also adrenal

status as well. I am using Ultra Clear Plus pH to help with aching joints

and fatigue (liver) and stress dosing with HC when I get anxiety or

depression. This is working and I have had another person try this as well

and it is working for her. So I may be on to something. I am working with

a few other Dr's (not just Dr. Brownstien) on this issue and they are

starting to try some of what I have been finding on their patients. We do

not know at this point all the angles but some of the pieces are falling

into place.

Re: using iodine with Hashi's

>> Have you addressed detoxification pathways and

>> methylation? That is what

>> some of the clinicians are beginning to find is an issue.

>>

>>

>

>

> There are often genetic problems with detox and

> methylation, which can sometimes be partially or fully

> overcome with certain nutritional factors,

> but all this is still in its infancy IMO, with much controversy

> surrounding various approaches. Gotta start somewhere though!

> We are eyewitness to history in the making.

>

>

> Carol

> willis_protocols

> [see my Links>Tests, and Links>Methylation folders for more info]

>

>

>

> Send Message: iodine

>

> Iodine

[Guest guest]

Yes but you are hammering away at this hashi's and no iodine based on your

own personal experience as much as she touts 50 mgs. I have given you

biochemistry pathways of why higher doses are needed to help with hashi's.

I would like to see biochemistry as to why it is NOT a good idea.

Forget the fact that Gracia states that 50 mgs is best. It is being dealt

with. Enough said.

Again for the record - I do not advocate 50 mgs for all patients! I do

advocate digging deeper into the cause of why your body cannot tolerate it.

There has to be an underlying reason other than it is Hashi's because there

are many many that are using it with Hashi's. If it were a big issue then I

know it would have been on the discussion list at the iodine conferences as

bromide has been - but it wasn't.

Also for the record I would like to hear from those that have issues with

taking Iodine if there is so much off group discussion. This is why I

created that poll. It allows for anonymous feedback without and " attack " if

that is what you feel will happen (which I hope you understand I will not

allow). Please do speak up because this is not a cult of Iodine worshipers.

We are here to seek out the truth but along with that comes science. There

have been too many flippant remarks that are not backed up by scientific

data. It is one thing to ask if there is a connection and another to say I

have " X " and therefore it must be related to the iodine.

We are all on a journey here. I relate what I know from Dr. Brownstein

because he is my closest resource. But I have expanded and now have

connections to several other doctors who are using it in their practice and

soon I will be able to balance it with their experiences as well.

Let's try to be civil and discuss things like adults. Because we are all

here to learn, improve our health and teach others what we have learned. I

know this is my goal and the reason why Zoe started the group. And no she

did back down from the group due to issues here. So lets not start an

undertow in the group please. We have a good thing going and there is

nothing like it out there. Let's keep it up.

Re: using iodine with Hashi's

> why not, steph?

> because if you're gonna allow someone (Gracia) to tell everyone that

> 50 mg. is the Right Dose and not put a stop to that

> foolishness....then you too have passed over into some iodine fantasy

> land too...and need to be brought back to reality. gracia's advice is

> very dangerous advice. in fact you have said so in the past - and so

> has zoe.

>

> and folks like me who dare to issue a caution about iodine - we

> always get emails from folks who are scared to say a thing on this

> forum about their adverse high iodine experience. why this has

> become a cult like iodine group unwilling to listen to the adverse

> experiences folks are having - and even berating them for it - I

> don't know. I've even wondered if that is why Zoe backed out of the

> whole thing.

>

> personally, it's fine with me for you to ban me. or if you put me on

> moderation for saying what so many others are thinking, well I'll

> just leave. But this crap about 50 mg. for all - when folks are

> getting sick from that protocol - and it's not because they need to

> do this or that - it's because perhaps it's just what Brownstein says-

> some folks just need 6 mg...well this needs to be told to people.

> no point in making folks sick.

>

> and yes...I agree with what you said below - and it's a protocol that

> i think is excellent for hashi's folks. start low and work up. It's

> discussed on another forum actually...and works quite well. So how

> do you get someone's attention (gracia) to get them to stop refuting

> the fact that hashi's folks can indeed be sensitive to iodine and may

> not be able to take 50 mg. it really does get rather tiring to

> continually put up with his ignorance from someone who doesn't even

> has autoimmune thyroid disease. you got a better way

> than " snotty " ...i'm all ears.

> cindi

[Guest guest]

I hardly ever post on this forum but I usually read each

post. , I am so glad to read what you wrote about

detoxification. I have found, through healing from stage 3 colon cancer

in 2001, and now from dealing with clients, that digestive tract cleansing and

liver/gallbladder cleansing are imperative towards getting healthy, from

absolutely anything. And when people continue to consume the SAD it is

needed more than what most consider. The liver, as most of us know, has a

tremendous effect on the whole endocrine system and 70% of our immune system is

located in the digestive tract. Total body detoxification and cleansing should

always be done BEFORE any type of natural protocol is implemented. I

think that the reason that we see so many detoxification issues from the iodine

is because we are not addressing this FIRST. From some of the symptoms

that I have seen and even experienced myself, this seems to help alleviate the

seriousness of the symptoms. I have found that if detoxification becomes

too severe most people will give up because it scares them. I certainly

understand this and sometimes it can take months for the body to completely

detoxify. I think it would be great if the iodine docs would recognize

this and require that their patients detoxify FIRST and then begin the iodine

treatment. Possibly better results would be seen.

Now, I do NOT believe in these pictures of long black stuff

coming out of the bowel (this is most likely the results from taking psyllium).

This is what most people envision when we talk about bowel cleansing and it

scares them to think something like that would/could come out of their body. However,

bowel mucosa can and does get a film build-up which means that it will be

difficult to absorb nutrients as well as we should. This film can also

lead to a slow bowel transit time which then allows foods to sit in the

digestive tract and literally putrefy. It is very important for health and

well-being to be having at least 2-4 bowel movements daily. Compare that

to the fact that most people have 3-4 bowel movement per WEEK! If someone

is beginning iodine therapy and has a toxic bowel and liver/gallbladder, then

most likely their detox symptoms are going to be huge and possibly even

frightening.

Natural medicine (of which iodine is) is not always

scientific nor can it always be explained from a scientific manner and this is

what trips many MD’s up. So much so that they will sometimes

completely discredit it or try to make it fit into the conventional medicine “box.”

They tend to want to get the same results for the same dosage for everyone as

this is sort-of how is works with drugs and thus what they are used to.

No one’s biochemistry is exactly the same and this is why so-called scientific

human trials do not always produce good results, thus we get drugs presented to

the public as safe and before we know it they are doing a recall because people

are dying or suffering adverse effects. So even though something is supposed

to be good for the body we must recognize the fact that everyone is different

and thus dosage and tolerance will most likely be different. This has to

do with the cleanliness of the digestive tract, liver and gallbladder, the

emotional situation of the client, healthy diet, exercise, sun, medications,

supplements, etc. In other words—total lifestyle (which makes

everyone different).

Also, we must never discredit the emotional aspect of

illness. This has been proven over and over and over. Stress,

negative emotions, a doc who has told you that you will never get well and must

always take meds, etc. has a direct effect on whether or not a person gets completely

well. I do a lot of cancer nutritional balancing and I see this played

out almost weekly. I have seen cancer patients who were prescribed a death

sentence of eight weeks and sure enough the patient went home and circled the

date and in eight weeks, almost to the day, they were gone. It had

nothing to do with the doctor being able to accurately predict but everything

to do with the mind believing the words that it heard. I am not saying

that you can “think” yourself well, but most would be surprised as

to the real effect that the mind has on the body. The mind part of

healing definitely needs to be dealt with and just because we say that the mind-body

connection is ridiculous does not make it so. Stress is a killer and a

huge component for illness and disease. A victim mentality also brings

the body down.

I do hope the iodine docs will take cleansing in a very

serious manner as this could be the answer to the sometimes debilitating side-effects

that people are experiencing on iodine therapy.

Sorry for the long post and misspellings, grammar, etc. as

I only had a few minutes to post. This is just what I have found when

dealing with clients and was excited to see your post. Cleansing and

detoxification FIRST will allow everything else to be absorbed, transported and

utilized in a more efficient manner thus producing much better results.

Be Well,

Loretta

-----Original Message-----

It is becoming apparent that the Iodine docs did not

anticipate the reaction

that would occur when supplementing with higher doses of

iodine. At the

last conference this was a huge topic of

discussion. I am finishing up

viewing the DVD's from the Feb conf and I can see that

they were beginning

to think about it but by October it was a full blown

issue. They are

working on further tests that will become available as

they validate them

that will measure toxin levels in individuals when given

iodine.

Interestingly, there was a pair of Dr's that spoke at the

Feb conference

that stated they had not had as many issues as the other

doctors were

relating with detox issues. They were alluding to

the fact that the first

thing they do with all patients was to evaluate the Phase

I and Phase II

detoxification pathways, status of the gut and also

nutrient levels. This

they believed helped because the patient was then able to

easily detox with

the appropriate support along with coordinating nutrients

that effectively

allowed the body to use the iodine once it was added.

I am finding that detoxification is a huge thing for me

but also adrenal

status as well. I am using Ultra Clear Plus pH to

help with aching joints

and fatigue (liver) and stress dosing with HC when I get

anxiety or

depression. This is working and I have had another

person try this as well

and it is working for her. So I may be on to

something. I am working with

a few other Dr's (not just Dr. Brownstien) on this issue

and they are

starting to try some of what I have been finding on their

patients. We do

not know at this point all the angles but some of the

pieces are falling

into place.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for telling us your story Barbara. I am glad you are feeling better

on Iodine. My SIL was dx'd with CFS and FMS and her doctors have chosen to

treat her with anti depressants and pain meds. It is sad to watch her. She

has a master's degree and used to work for the FBI's investigation

department. Now she is on disability and last week Monday at my son's

birthday could hardly put a game together for my son. I have looked at her

thyroid labs and she is so hypo but her Dr's say she is fine - in the range.

She had bariatric surgery a few years ago and now is getting very overweight

again.

It does my heart good to see others who have found something to help them.

Health issues are hard and can take a lot of energy. I agree that time on

and time off seems to be a good way of dealing with it. I do it with my

kids too. They take it Mon - Fri and then are off Sat & Sun.

Again thanks for telling us your story!

Re: using iodine with Hashi's

> I'm glad to hear that anyone in this group is " all ears. " Okay,

> here's my two-cents worth: " Snotty " is counterproductive and

> inappropriate in all circumstances, with all subjects. If you want

> to try a " better way, " simply try " adult " for a change. It

> works. " Snotty " is going to drive a lot of us away from this group.

> It's hard enough to try to reason through this morass of information,

> not all of which is accurate, without people sniping at each other.

>

> As for dosing, I see intermittent references to " pulsing " doses --

> using a significant dose for a short time, then taking a break for as

> long as an individual needs in order to stabiliize. That's what I

> started doing before I saw the suggestion on this group, and it

> works for me. >

> Barbara

>

[Guest guest]

For the 800th time. I never said that " most folks must be able to tolerate

50 mgs of Iodine " . What I have said is that the stance that hashi's folks

will more than likely have issues with iodine is not what the iodine docs

are saying. I would never say that all people must take 50 mgs or I would

have my hubby who has been dx'd with hashi's on 50 mgs or more. He is

currently taking 37.5 mgs of Iodoral under the direction of Dr Brownstein.

If you look in the archives you will see that each time this comes up I

reiterate that I do not advocate 50 mgs for all people.

Re: using iodine with Hashi's

>> I do find it hard to believe you also believe folks must be able to

> tolerate 50 mg. Iodine. it just doesn't even make good common

> sense....and isn't even what your doc promotes...but there are enough

> of us behind the scenes who are amazed at this high dose " iodine

> mindset " ...that I don't feel alone in my amazement....so i'll just go

> back to semi-lurk mode....

> cindi

>

[Guest guest]

Ok, did I say that there was no issue with hashis antibodies and iodine. No.

This is an example of why I am concerned about your posts. I was answering

your objections to me and once again you have gone off on me.

For the record - I acknowledge your issues, know iodine can be troublesome

for some. Maybe it is Hashis alone, maybe it is hashis with those different

antibodies. It appears no one is testing it - at least the iodine docs who

are doing the research. How do we change that? I don't know if we can.

Take a breath and look at what I just posted about. I had nothing to do

with what you just posted. It was based on clarifying my position on iodine

with hashis.