Re: headache question and Linus ing Institute

[Guest guest]

ah! I did not know this. How sad! Thanks for the info. Annie

-----Original Message-----From: iodine [mailto:iodine ] On Behalf Of AlobarSent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 12:43 PMiodine Subject: Re: headache question and Linus ing Institute

There are politics here which you may not be aware of. Linus ingwas indeed a pioneer in high dose vitamin C. However, the Linusing Institute has cut way back on its recommendations for vitaminC. Those who consider themselves followers of ing (like DoctorRath) have nothing to do with the Linus ing institute. It sureseems to me that the Linus ing Institute is very much on thepayroll of Big Pharm. So I sure would never accept their "findings"on any vitamin or mineral.On 11/13/07, Annie Phenix <anniephenixdogs> wrote:> Also I decided to do some on-line research regarding iodine use and found what the Linus ing institute had to say on the subject. This organization feels that the current RDA is sufficient for iodine and report studies that too much is harmful. This is the organization/person that went against the status quo in medicine and promoted super high doses of Vit C, so it would seem to me that this is not a group that is afraid to go against Big Pharma, etc.>> Any thoughts?>> http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/minerals/iodine/>> Thanks, Annie

[Guest guest]

It is well known that high doses of Vit C interfere with copper

absorption. Copper is crucial for the health of the blood vessels.

Copper deficiency has been shown to be a cause of life-threatening and

often fatal aneurysms. It is also a critical factor in the ability to

use iron and to degrade extended effects of catecholamines.

Much of the impact of high doses of any single nutrient has been

discovered in the past decade, thus the revision of recommendations.

I would hope that pioneers such as ing would be willing to revise

their protocols in the face of evidence that proves a significant

risk. It does no one any good to steadfastly and stubbornly cling to

a belief when new research shows there are problems not previously

discovered.

As I've said before, taking any single nutrient in high doses for more

than short periods of time causes imbalances of other nutrients and

then the nutrient is no longer functioning as just a nutrient, it is

functioning as a medicine and begins to have adverse effects due to

the imbalances in other nutrients it is creating.

I was not aware that the ing Institute was on the payroll of Big

Pharm. I'd be interested to see any evidence of that.

> > Also I decided to do some on-line research regarding iodine use and

> found what the Linus ing institute had to say on the subject. This

> organization feels that the current RDA is sufficient for iodine and

> report studies that too much is harmful. This is the organization/person

> that went against the status quo in medicine and promoted super high

> doses of Vit C, so it would seem to me that this is not a group that is

> afraid to go against Big Pharma, etc.

> >

> > Any thoughts?

> >

> > http://lpi.oregonst

> <http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/minerals/iodine/>

> ate.edu/infocenter/minerals/iodine/

> >

> > Thanks, Annie

>

[Guest guest]

The RDA of vitamin C will prevent scurvy, but is no where near

what all the animals who make their own vitamin C produce daily.

Are all those animals deficient in Copper? Or are there other

factors involved?

I have no " proof " that the Linus ing Institute was bought

off. But drug companies are continually trying to discredit

alternative treatments which hurt their drug sales. You might want

to glance at chapter nine of this on-online book

http://www.cancertutor.com/WarBetween.html

Alobar

On 11/13/07, b53cjf <b53cjf@...> wrote:

> It is well known that high doses of Vit C interfere with copper

> absorption. Copper is crucial for the health of the blood vessels.

> Copper deficiency has been shown to be a cause of life-threatening and

> often fatal aneurysms. It is also a critical factor in the ability to

> use iron and to degrade extended effects of catecholamines.

>

> Much of the impact of high doses of any single nutrient has been

> discovered in the past decade, thus the revision of recommendations.

> I would hope that pioneers such as ing would be willing to revise

> their protocols in the face of evidence that proves a significant

> risk. It does no one any good to steadfastly and stubbornly cling to

> a belief when new research shows there are problems not previously

> discovered.

>

> As I've said before, taking any single nutrient in high doses for more

> than short periods of time causes imbalances of other nutrients and

> then the nutrient is no longer functioning as just a nutrient, it is

> functioning as a medicine and begins to have adverse effects due to

> the imbalances in other nutrients it is creating.

>

>

> I was not aware that the ing Institute was on the payroll of Big

> Pharm. I'd be interested to see any evidence of that.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

But we are not animals. There are reasons why our metabolisms are

different. If the animals are not copper-deficient, it's because

their bodies naturally make the C and have had ample time to adapt to

it without causing problems. And in one study where they fed guinea

pigs high dose Vit. C (guinea pigs do not produce their own) the pigs

did become copper-deficient.

It's well-documented that Vit. C in high doses interferes with copper

absorption.

http://tinyurl.com/29vjq2

>>>>Ascorbic acid (vitamin C) has been found to antagonize the

absorption of copper intestinally, and can impede the binding of

copper to copper-zinc superoxide dismutase (Cu,Zn)SOD.(5) Likewise,

zinc opposes the absorption of copper. In an animal study that

examined the intestines of various animals that had been fed different

amounts of zinc, researchers found that those animals that exhibited a

lower zinc intake transferred more copper from a nutrient medium

across the mucosal cells. Basically, it's because zinc induces the

synthesis of a copper-binding ligand, which sequesters copper content

and keeps it from transferring out of the digestive tract mucosal

cells.(6) In addition, people whose diets are high in zinc and low in

protein seem to be at risk for copper deficiency.(7) The rule of thumb

is to counter every 10 mg of supplemental zinc with 1 mg of copper,

although that raises the concern of copper excess.

A 1988 study from the Department of Foods and Nutrition at the

University of Georgia also found that after feeding male rats various

amounts of copper, iron and VITAMIN C for 20 days, high intakes of

iron and/or vitamin C dramatically reduced copper levels. Results

showed that high iron intake decreased copper absorption in

copper-deficient rats, high vitamin C intake significantly decreased

tissue copper levels in rats with adequate copper intake, and high

iron plus high vitamin C caused severe anemia in copper-deficient

rats, while dropping ceruloplasmin levels in copper-adequate rats by

44%.(8)

Even in dogs, Vit C is known to decrease copper:

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=2 & articleid=659

>>>Copper is absorbed in the stomach and small intestine, and stored

in the liver, kidneys, and brain. A number of substances can decrease

the absorption of copper. These include high levels of ascorbic acid

(Vitamin C), increased levels of calcium, zinc, iron, and sulfur, and

some toxic metals such as cadmium, silver, or lead. Zinc

supplementation is actually used as a therapy in dogs with copper

storage disease (a liver disease).

> > It is well known that high doses of Vit C interfere with copper

> > absorption. Copper is crucial for the health of the blood vessels.

> > Copper deficiency has been shown to be a cause of life-threatening and

> > often fatal aneurysms. It is also a critical factor in the ability to

> > use iron and to degrade extended effects of catecholamines.

> >

> > Much of the impact of high doses of any single nutrient has been

> > discovered in the past decade, thus the revision of recommendations.

> > I would hope that pioneers such as ing would be willing to revise

> > their protocols in the face of evidence that proves a significant

> > risk. It does no one any good to steadfastly and stubbornly cling to

> > a belief when new research shows there are problems not previously

> > discovered.

> >

> > As I've said before, taking any single nutrient in high doses for more

> > than short periods of time causes imbalances of other nutrients and

> > then the nutrient is no longer functioning as just a nutrient, it is

> > functioning as a medicine and begins to have adverse effects due to

> > the imbalances in other nutrients it is creating.

> >

> >

> > I was not aware that the ing Institute was on the payroll of Big

> > Pharm. I'd be interested to see any evidence of that.

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

We are not animals?!? I don't know about you, but I sure ain't no

vegetable.

I am very suspicious of all " research " which attempts to " prove "

that high dose vitamins are harmful. I try to follow the money to see

where the funding of a study came from, before deciding whether to

take the " research " indicting vitamins at face value. Researchers

know not to endanger future funding possibilities by doing research

which might upset the companies funding the research.

Some supplements need to be taken at different times. I do not

take either Zinc or Selenium with C or within an hour of taking C.

But that does not mean that high dose C is bad for humans. It merely

means that one must use it with care.

Alobar

On 11/14/07, b53cjf <b53cjf@...> wrote:

> But we are not animals. There are reasons why our metabolisms are

> different. If the animals are not copper-deficient, it's because

> their bodies naturally make the C and have had ample time to adapt to

> it without causing problems. And in one study where they fed guinea

> pigs high dose Vit. C (guinea pigs do not produce their own) the pigs

> did become copper-deficient.

>

> It's well-documented that Vit. C in high doses interferes with copper

> absorption.

>

> http://tinyurl.com/29vjq2

>

>

[Guest guest]

No, I don't consider myself an animal, but a human. You are free to

call yourself an animal if you wish. Human physiology is different

than that of animals, that's a fact.

The effect of high dose Vit C on copper had nothing to do about

whether or not they were taken too close together or not. That would

be true if the only way it interfered was in the intestinal tract, but

that isn't the case.

I have had my own holistic business and have studied nutrition for

years. I always advocate nutrition and lifestyle for healing rather

than meds.

But I'm also open-minded enough to read the research (not always

funded by big, evil pharm, by the way, much of it done by those in the

alternative business) and realize, based on my own experience and

that of my clients, that indeed high doses of any nutrient given over

a period of time will cause an imbalance of something else.

This is just basic knowledge in the field of nutrition. Just because

something is natural doesn't mean it can't be harmful when not used

correctly. People have died of over-hydration from too much water,

which caused electrolyte losses. It's the same for herbs or

vitamins/minerals.

Just because there are studies showing nutrients in high doses can be

problematic for various reasons, does not automatically mean pressure

was put on them from big Pharm or the medical establishment. I try

to avoid such knee-jerk reactions unless there is reasonable proof.

> > But we are not animals. There are reasons why our metabolisms are

> > different. If the animals are not copper-deficient, it's because

> > their bodies naturally make the C and have had ample time to adapt to

> > it without causing problems. And in one study where they fed guinea

> > pigs high dose Vit. C (guinea pigs do not produce their own) the pigs

> > did become copper-deficient.

> >

> > It's well-documented that Vit. C in high doses interferes with copper

> > absorption.

> >

> > http://tinyurl.com/29vjq2

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Actually, she raises a important point...and one that Dr.

Blaylock discusses in his book " Excitotoxins " in a section

on " analyzing research data " ....which I thought was pretty darn

informative...

but concerning animals versus humans...he points out that " on some

occasions humans react to certain drugs and chemicals as no other

animal " ....and uses the example that the rhesus monkey is more

resistant to the toxic effects of excitotoxins than is either man or

mouse.

Another thing he points out...is that there are " differences in all

animal speciies, AS WELL AS HUMANS....as he discusses sensitivity to

toxins.....

Taking it even further....he talks about how an animal's age is

important...with immature animals being more sensitive to toxins.....

and so he points out that all these factors (and he does discuss some

more points regarding human vs. animal) must be taken into

consideration when comparing experiments and extrapolating or

tranferring these results to humans.

cindi

>

> We are not animals?!? I don't know about you, but I sure ain't

no

> vegetable.

[Guest guest]

I think that it is also important to note that not all people are the same

and there is no perfect human diet or supplement list. The ‘typical’

recommendations, may work fairly well for 50% of the population, but at

least 20% will be very ill served if they follow these. I know because I am

in one of the 20% ranges. B vitamins make me sick and I can only tolerate

very small amounts of many of them. Some people feel great on massive doses

of vitamin C and it will make others feel like crap.

And there is a reason for why this is so, peoples ancestors were adapted to

very different climates and diets.

It is very important to tailor supplements to ones unique metabolism. I have

been working on this for the past year and a half, and all my experience

confirms metabolic individuality.

I would be very excited if some work was done on what kind of nutrient

iodine is, does it support the sympathetic or parasympathetic nervous

systems, or is it universal and neutral? And given that, what variation may

be needed in the companion nutrients? And, how large should the dose be? For

some, 10mg’s may have the same effect as 50mgs on others.

Karima

[Guest guest]

>

> We are not animals?!? I don't know about you, but I sure ain't no

> vegetable.

Although what you just said is funny it hits me even funnier after

working my 12 hr shift and tired. Thanks for the smiles!