Re: Re: gall bladder surgery iminent? YOU NEED BLOOD TESTS ASAP

[Guest guest]

My best friend had a coworker who was told she needed it out, had the

surgery, and then found out there was nothing wrong with her GB and she

still had the original symptoms. In her case, she was assertive enough

to find out from them that the surgery ultimately was unnecessary, but

by then, it was too late.

By the way, I had severe pain for about 5-6 weeks. Was not about to

have my GB out because I also had shingles on the same side at the same

time. I think that I do need more GB flushes (I only did one so far).

But my pain is way, way down, compared to what it was. I'm now on the

Sensible Health tinctures and will be doing another flush in a few

weeks. I didn't have any of the other signs of sickness, fever, etc.

I'm glad that I'm taking this slow, wait and see, flushes approach,

rather than jumping into surgery.

But each person has to evaluate his/her own situation. I think we know

more about our bodies than these doctors, do. I will go to them and

consult, but I am still in charge of my own decisions when it comes to

my health.

mrf

Will Winter wrote:

> I'm siding with Dave. The " infected GB " diagnosis/theory is often sort

> of a blanket scare

> statement (used along with 1-2 good scare stories about former

> patients who should have

> had surgery earlier) to bully everyone into surgical removal.

>

> B

>

[Guest guest]

Be careful how you go about " merely switching

doctors " . Doctors don't like patients who " opinion

shop " (I don't care WHAT all the magazine articles say

about second opinions). No doctor wants to be in a

position of second-guessing another doctor, especially

if they're in the same town or in a mutual affiliation

(it isn't always obvious if Dr. A and Dr B are somehow

affiliated, be careful). At best all you'll get is

Dr. B going along with Dr. A's opinion, otherwise you

could use the second opinion as grounds for a lawsuit.

Your best bet for a second opinion is to just go to

another doctor that, insofar as you can determine, is

not affiliated with the first doctor, then start all

over. DON'T take along previous lab records, etc.,

and don't say anything about the previous doctor.

Just start fresh. Especially with lab records, its

been my experience they usually won't even look at

them, anyways. They say they are too old and will

take new ones, anyways. Also, many doctors will only

trust lab results from their own labs (can you spell

'kickback?). Taking your records around won't do you

any good and will only flag you as a potential

troublemaker for the second doctor. Trust me--I've

dealt with the medical profession for decades, both as

patient and a medical office manager, so I've been on

both sides. The best way to find an unbiased second

opinion is, if at all possible, to go to another city,

preferably one with a large teaching/research

hospital. Not only will you get the most up-to-date

treatment, you won't be going to someone in the

current doctor's " inner circle " . Good luck!

--- Will Winter <holistic@...> wrote:

> I'm siding with Dave. The " infected GB "

> diagnosis/theory is often sort of a blanket scare

> statement (used along with 1-2 good scare stories

> about former patients who should have

> had surgery earlier) to bully everyone into surgical

> removal.

>

> By surgerizing everyone with suspicious symptoms,

> the doctor looks good, the surgeon,

> looks good, the hospital looks good BUT it could all

> be at the patient's expense. In today's

> litigenous world " better safe than sorry " takes on

> new meaning in " modern medicine " .

> CUT FIRST, ASK QUESTIONS LATER, is not necessarily

> safe and it's no guarantee you won't

> be sorry.

>

> (probably 90% of all surgery of this type, like the

> infamous biopsies, are totally

> unnecessary and reflect a POOR ability to diagnose

> and/or a GREEDY medical team). Again,

> all at the patient's expense, and 99% of these poor

> bastards never find out the crime!

>

> GET MORE DATA...(NOW). If the GB is infected

> (cholecystitis) there WILL be a strongly

> elevated white count, usually with lots of PMNs,

> juveniles (bands), and lymphocytes.

> Normal count would be 5000-10000 and your count

> could rise to 20K to 80K with an

> active infection. Check it DAILY to see if it's

> rising or dropping, and what the cell ratios

> are, you need more data as to whether you are

> getting worse or better. This is just basic

> good medicine and good " insurance " .

>

> It still doesn't pinpoint liver, GB or pancreas

> though. For that you need some enzyme tests.

> Check 1) liver enzymes in the blood, 2) the

> bilirubin levels (conjugated and unconjugated),

> and 3) the pancreatic enzymes. If you are in crisis,

> and you may well be, especially if you

> are contemplating surgery, you need to have these

> tests done DAILY so you can track the

> counts for rises and decreases. It paints a very

> definitive picture. If your bile ducts are

> obstructed, your liver enzymes and bilirubin WILL be

> off the chart. If you have any degree

> of pancreatitis at all your lipase and amylase WILL

> be off the chart.

>

> If you have a high fever and an elevated white

> count, you are a good candidate for

> prophylactic antibiotic coverage. It's true that

> some people have let it go too far and need

> surgery. The blood tests will give you a very

> accurate picture of whether you are too far

> gone or not. If your doctor is not cooperating 100%

> (with you in the driver's seat) go for a

> SECOND OPINION or merely switch doctors. Don't mess

> around if you have a pompous

> uncaring jerk for a doctor.

>

> Get active, get results, get better!

>

> Will in Minnesota

>

>

>

>

>

__________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Will,

Got my blood drawn again today. I have to meet with the doc to get the

results tomorrow. I " ll get copies of results. Tandra

----- Original Message -----

From: Will Winter

gallstones

Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 9:30 AM

Subject: Re: gall bladder surgery iminent? YOU NEED BLOOD TESTS

ASAP

Tandra, this is very good news and quite interesting.

> Had those tests last Wed.-all came back normal. Called doc today to get

tested again

See, NOW you know you have some " working room " to clear your problems sans

surgery.

Here's what comes up for me:

1) Ask the doc to explain all that Rush To Surgery, given NO laboratory

indications!

2) Find out the EXACT NUMBERS of your liver/pancreas/white counts-get a hard

copy of

them for study and for future reference (I'd be glad to review them for you or

others here

could too). Most docs are too dumbed-down to really know what " normal " means.

I like to

look for more depth, not good-bad, normal-abnormal, high-low. The labs

nowadays

even print an A for abnormal (or H for high and L for low) for all values off

of " book " levels.

It's all the shades of gray that tell the real story going on inside your

body.

3) Chart your BODY TEMP several times a day for this period of time

4) GET CRACKIN' on a serious plan for your

nutrition/stress/breathing/exercies/wt. loss

(if needed) and medical-herb program. Make a laundry list of all the reasons

why you got

this. Don't rest on your laurals any time soon (if ever) God has apparently

given you an

opportunity to heal yourself. Don't blow it.

Will in Minneapolis

Learn more from our experience, over 7.000 liver flush stories:

http://curezone.com/forums/fd50.asp?f=4

http://curezone.com/forums/fd50.asp?f=80

http://curezone.com/forums/fd50.asp?f=100

http://curezone.com/forums/fd50.asp?f=112

Liver Cleanse Recipe: http://CureZone.com/cleanse/liver/

Liver Flush FAQ: http://curezone.com/forums/f.asp?f=73

Images:

http://CureZone.com/image_gallery/cleanse_flush/

http://CureZone.com/image_gallery/intrahepatic_stones/

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[Guest guest]

Will,

got the test results back. Doc says everything looks okay (liver, kidneys,

pancreas). I'm trying to decipher it but having a hard time. White cell count

is 6.1; total bilirubin .6, and there is a lot of other stuff on here. What

would I be looking for regarding my pancreas? I see nothing that says

lipase/amylase. Having more blood drawn next Wed. The last 2 days have been

better. Hopefully I'm on the mend... Tandra

----- Original Message -----

From: Will Winter

gallstones

Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 9:30 AM

Subject: Re: gall bladder surgery iminent? YOU NEED BLOOD TESTS

ASAP

Tandra, this is very good news and quite interesting.

> Had those tests last Wed.-all came back normal. Called doc today to get

tested again

See, NOW you know you have some " working room " to clear your problems sans

surgery.

Here's what comes up for me:

1) Ask the doc to explain all that Rush To Surgery, given NO laboratory

indications!

2) Find out the EXACT NUMBERS of your liver/pancreas/white counts-get a hard

copy of

them for study and for future reference (I'd be glad to review them for you or

others here

could too). Most docs are too dumbed-down to really know what " normal " means.

I like to

look for more depth, not good-bad, normal-abnormal, high-low. The labs

nowadays

even print an A for abnormal (or H for high and L for low) for all values off

of " book " levels.

It's all the shades of gray that tell the real story going on inside your

body.

3) Chart your BODY TEMP several times a day for this period of time

4) GET CRACKIN' on a serious plan for your

nutrition/stress/breathing/exercies/wt. loss

(if needed) and medical-herb program. Make a laundry list of all the reasons

why you got

this. Don't rest on your laurals any time soon (if ever) God has apparently

given you an

opportunity to heal yourself. Don't blow it.

Will in Minneapolis

Learn more from our experience, over 7.000 liver flush stories:

http://curezone.com/forums/fd50.asp?f=4

http://curezone.com/forums/fd50.asp?f=80

http://curezone.com/forums/fd50.asp?f=100

http://curezone.com/forums/fd50.asp?f=112

Liver Cleanse Recipe: http://CureZone.com/cleanse/liver/

Liver Flush FAQ: http://curezone.com/forums/f.asp?f=73

Images:

http://CureZone.com/image_gallery/cleanse_flush/

http://CureZone.com/image_gallery/intrahepatic_stones/

To unsubscribe, send blank e-mail to: gallstones-unsubscribe

and then reply to confirmation message!

To Post message: gallstones

Subscribe: gallstones-subscribe

Web Sites for more information:

http://CureZone.org

http://www.liverdoctor.com/

http://www.sensiblehealth.com/

http://www.cyberpog.com/health/index.htm

http://www.relfe.com/gall_stone_cleanse.html

http://www.cleansingorsurgery.com/

Group page: gallstones

To change your subscription to digest send blank e-mail to:

gallstones-digest

To change your subscription to NO-MAIL send blank e-mail to:

gallstones-nomail

To change your subscription to NORMAL send blank e-mail to:

gallstones-normal

You are receiving this email because you elected to subscribe to the

Gallstones group on 's groups. By joining the list you agree to hold

yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself!

Have a nice day !