Re: All in the mind - whose mind I ask.

[Guest guest]

Exactly Lilian,

If it's all fantasy, we'd make it a much better one! As I tried to

explain to my GP, who honestly is lovely but won't think outside the

box, why would I keep coming to see you if symptoms weren't impacting

my life worryingly? I'd be busy off doing all the things I used to

and can't anymore. You've guessed her reply.......

'your blood results are fine, within the normal ranges!' I can't

quite get my head round training to be a Dr and then being satisfied

to send people away, feeling unwell over a long period of time,

without doing anything for them. Is it me?

M

x

>

> I love this " all in the mind " . Do they think we actually think

ourselves to be bloaty, swollen feet, ankles and legs, thinning hair,

feeling so tired etc. etc.

[Guest guest]

Excellent point Lilian

Luv -Sheila

I love this "all in the mind". Do they think we actually think ourselves to be bloaty, swollen feet, ankles and legs, thinning hair, feeling so tired etc. etc.

Why doesn't our minds make us slim, nice legs and ankles, lots of hair (on our heads), keep us awake and energetic during the day so that we can do the things we want to do, and give us a good night's sleep. I can assure you my mind really wants the latter, not the former, so how come it keeps me how I do not want to be.

Perhaps when the doctor says it is all in the mind - it is in theirs not ours

Lilian

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.10/1586 - Release Date: 01/08/2008 18:59

[Guest guest]

Oh Lilian how very succinct. I wish I'd thought of saying this at my

last (and it may have been my very last if you follow me) appointment

with the endo. His final comment of 'I think its all in your head'

may have meant he's now either 'written me off' or discharged me

without actually saying so. I vehemently denied his 'depression'

theory and he probably realised I'd go ballistic at his suggestion it

was 'all in my head' so he sent me for a head CT - in his words 'to

rule out any possible neurological cause although I don't think it

will find anything'.So why do it then with all the attendant radiation

risks????

Looks like another trip to my previously sympathetic GP is on the

cards. He now also seems to be losing the plot. I know they don't have

much time but I booked a double appointment and he couldn't get rid

of me fast enough.Just said 'well you are due to see the endo again so

lets just see what he says'. I couldn't get any blood test results out

of him and he wouldn't listen to any of my symptoms. I think I shall

have to write and complain to PALs then perhaps they will have to do

something. This time I shall go armed with ammunition in the form of

your words and a photo I've taken on my mobile phone of my puffy

ankles/feet which had recently swollen like elephant feet.Its date

stamped so he can't blame it on hot weather!! I've got a 'swollen' and

after photo - with the same sandals on to prove they are MY feet and

ankles in case they try to refute the physical evidence!!!.

So - I shall have to stamp my puffy feet raise my non existent

eyebrows and ask if they would treat a cancer patient in the same way.

My symptoms are not (possibly) life threatening but represent failure

by the NHS to help me regain my former health by not listening to or

treating the signs or symptoms with the resources available to them.

That surely must constitute at best negligence at worst malpractice!!

Thanks for the words Lilian - hope you don't mind (pardon pun) if I

use them?

Cheers

>

> I love this " all in the mind " . Do they think we actually think

ourselves to be bloaty, swollen feet, ankles and legs, thinning hair,

feeling so tired etc. etc.

>

> Why doesn't our minds make us slim, nice legs and ankles, lots of

hair (on our heads), keep us awake and energetic during the day so

that we can do the things we want to do, and give us a good night's

sleep. I can assure you my mind really wants the latter, not the

former, so how come it keeps me how I do not want to be.

>

> Perhaps when the doctor says it is all in the mind - it is in theirs

not ours

>

> Lilian

>

[Guest guest]

HI - post your photo's (before and after) in the Photo's section of this forum. This is a good way of following our members through from what they were like before treatment and what they are like after. This is very encouraging for others, and if you haven't got to that final, final stage, then there is room for that when it happens and something to look forward to.

luv - Sheila

This time I shall go armed with ammunition in the form ofyour words and a photo I've taken on my mobile phone of my puffyankles/feet which had recently swollen like elephant feet.Its datestamped so he can't blame it on hot weather!! I've got a 'swollen' andafter photo - with the same sandals on to prove they are MY feet andankles in case they try to refute the physical evidence!!!. So - I shall have to stamp my puffy feet raise my non existenteyebrows and ask if they would treat a cancer patient in the same way.My symptoms are not (possibly) life threatening but represent failureby the NHS to help me regain my former health by not listening to ortreating the signs or symptoms with the resources available to them.That surely must constitute at best negligence at worst malpractice!!Thanks for the words Lilian - hope you don't mind (pardon pun) if Iuse them?

.. No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.10/1587 - Release Date: 02/08/2008 17:30

[Guest guest]

>

> ,

>

> Most welcome to use anything if it helps.

>

> When I went to my GP about my elephant feet, ankles and legs, he

told me it was because it was the hot weather.

>

> When I went back to him in the winter with the same problem he said

" they look all right to me " . I wish I had been quick witted enough

to say that they were the same as they were in the summer when he

thought they were swollen because of the hot weather. But I was

just dumb struck with that answer.

>

> Perhaps photographs are the way to go in future.

>

> Lilian

>

[Guest guest]

Doh,sorry

What I meant to say before that got sent was, I totally agree Lillian,

why would we think ourselves into this state of misery.

Counterproductive for the mind to do that. So as you so rightly say,

it is their minds not ours.

If I could alter it through my mind 'ommmmmm lol' I certainly would too.

I would go back to when life was not pain, and a constant drain on

myself and everyone around me.

Ah well onward and upward eh?

lotsa luv

Dawnx

[Guest guest]

Maybe GPs now think that all these other symptoms are related to being

overweight and that if we managed to reduce our weight the other

symptoms would disappear at the same time? After all, we don't have

many role models of heavy, but energetic, people. Being overweight

has a very bad press these days, whereas in some cultures it is seen

as a good thing, a sign of wealth and an insurance against starvation.

Miriam

> >

> > I love this " all in the mind " . Do they think we actually think

> ourselves to be bloaty, swollen feet, ankles and legs, thinning hair,

> feeling so tired etc. etc.

>

[Guest guest]

will look for my before and after photos when I was first put on

thyroxine. When I was on 200mcg.

[Guest guest]

Of course the problem is in your mind. The problem is your mind

because the solution is not in theirs. It is not in their mind for

several reasons:

1. They were not taught post-thyroid physiology in school. They were

not taught about potential deficiencies in the post-thyroid realm.

2. The endocrinology paradigm associates the thyroid behavior

directly with the symptoms. If your thyroid tests are OK, then these

symptoms must come from somewhere else.

3. Since the physicians have no physiology to attach these symptoms

to, they are " nonspecific " or they are in your mind, i.e. " functional

somatoform disorders. "

It is quite obvious that what is necessary is to demonstrate by way of

the science pioneered by Braverman, Refetoff and others that the

physiology exists and can be deficient. Then this physiology, since

the output of the thyroid must go through it, can produce these

symptoms. Hence, they are not " nonspecific. " And they are not

imaginary functional somatoform disorders.

The dominant hormone in the post-thyroid realm is T3, not T4. If

there is a deficiency in the post-thyroid realm (which may be be noted

by a failure of T4 therapy) then a T3-containing hormone replacement

is indicated.

Tests to verify this, albeit with different logic, are the rT3 test

recommended by Brady and the 24-hour urine test for T3 recommended by

Baisier, Hertoghe, and Eeckhaut.

The tests that give the doctors confidence are substantially removed

from the symptoms and the order from the symptoms is this:

Symptoms

T3 in the cells

T3 in the blood

T4 in the blood

TSH in the blood

TRH in the blood

So you can see that the favorite measurement is well removed from the

symptoms...But that is not what is advertised....

So the problem is not in your mind, it is simply not in the

physician's mind...

Have a better day,

> > >

> > > I love this " all in the mind " . Do they think we actually think

> > ourselves to be bloaty, swollen feet, ankles and legs, thinning hair,

> > feeling so tired etc. etc.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Has anyone thought that maybe the reason some overweigh people aren't energetic because they are ill and not just lazy!!! How the hell are you supposed to go to the gym and exercise when some days it's like climbing Mount Everest just to get to to the toilet. I am sick to death of being slagged off for being fat by the media and random strangers on the street. Have you noticed on programmes such as you are what you eat and diet doctors etc that they never show people that have a medical problem which has contributed to their excessive weight. These programmes just perpetrate the myth that people only get fat because they have eaten too much. Before I was diagnosed I was eating about 800 calories a day and still gaining weight. Sometimes I feel like getting a T-shirt made which says 'I am metabolically challenged, so b*gger off!!!' miriam_hinch <miriam_hinch@...> wrote: Maybe GPs now think that all these other symptoms are related to beingoverweight and that if we managed to reduce our weight the othersymptoms would disappear at the same time? After all, we don't havemany role models of heavy, but energetic, people. Being overweighthas a very bad press these days, whereas in some cultures it is seenas a good thing, a sign of wealth and an insurance against starvation.Miriam> >> > I love this "all in

the mind". Do they think we actually think > ourselves to be bloaty, swollen feet, ankles and legs, thinning hair, > feeling so tired etc. etc.>

Not happy with your email address?

Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at

[Guest guest]

HI Lindsey

I guess that to get the message across, all of us should contact these programmes and tell them there are people who have gained a lot of weight whose metabolism is so sluggish they are unable to burn off the calories. Perhaps if they started mentioning hypothyroid sufferers, they might get a few more viewers.

Luv - Sheila

I am sick to death of being slagged off for being fat by the media and random strangers on the street. Have you noticed on programmes such as you are what you eat and diet doctors etc that they never show people that have a medical problem which has contributed to their excessive weight. These programmes just perpetrate the myth that people only get fat because they have eaten too much.

.. No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.12/1590 - Release Date: 04/08/2008 08:09

[Guest guest]

>

> Of course the problem is in your mind. The problem is your mind

> because the solution is not in theirs. It is not in their mind for

> several reasons:

>

>>

> 3. Since the physicians have no physiology to attach these symptoms

> to, they are " nonspecific " or they are in your mind,

i.e. " functional

> somatoform disorders. "

>

I was thinking something along these lines - it seems it's because

they have no way of measuring the symptoms we are feeling that they

ignore them.

I don't know which paper it is, but I remember reading in a

comparison between T4 and T3 therapy that they could not measure any

difference between the two treatments, but that patients reported

feeling better on the T3 containing regime. Nothing much was made of

this - the paper pronounce in conclusion that there was no evidence

to show t3 was better... They seem to miss the point that us feeling

better should be there main aim, not satisfying some measureable

criteria.

Leah

[Guest guest]

Hi Leah

Yes, I picked up on this paper which I cited in my responses to BTA. You can find my response to the BTA on Armour and T4/T3 combination therapyu both in our FILES on this forum website, or on our website www.tpa-uk.org.uk

Luv - Sheila

I was thinking something along these lines - it seems it's because they have no way of measuring the symptoms we are feeling that they ignore them. I don't know which paper it is, but I remember reading in a comparison between T4 and T3 therapy that they could not measure any difference between the two treatments, but that patients reported feeling better on the T3 containing regime. Nothing much was made of this - the paper pronounce in conclusion that there was no evidence to show t3 was better... They seem to miss the point that us feeling better should be there main aim, not satisfying some measureable criteria. Leah No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.12/1592 - Release Date: 05/08/2008 06:03