Re: OT Weaning off HC

[Guest guest]

>From: Whitmore <phonicity@...>

>Today I felt horrible like the flu and have had body aches like a fibro

>flare or the flu. Feeling weak and head achy. I tend to catch every

>little bug that comes along and have been out in public more than usual

>with the Thanksgiving holiday.

I used to be able to feel the bacteria / virus just jumping off other people

at me.

The adrenals need lots of Vitamin C. So do the white blood cells, where it

has to compete with sugar if you're consuming any. I learned a couple years

ago, that a severe respiratory or other infection would go away quickly if I

simply took a handful (5 or 6,000 mg) of Vitamin C EVERY hour. When really

sick, I'd even wake up and take it. I'm going to have to remember to get

some powder, because those big capsules are sure hard to swallow.

The adrenals need Vitamin C and iodine. and the doctors who hold

themselves out as adrenal experts would say you need magnesium too. I don't

seem to do well on magnesium, and I've read that those with low cortisol

tend to have too much. Yet, Drs. Rind and writing about

adrenal fatigue say it's good for us. So, that could help you too.

>

>My question is what did you feel like coming off HC?

Here's where you have to be careful. The first year I was on it, my need

for it was DESPARATE and I needed to take it 4 times daily, and not be late.

After that, if I forgot to take it for a day or two, it wasn't really a

problem. But, a few weeks of forgetting and I'd remember why I was taking

it.

So, I could just stop any time after that first year for periods of time.

When I went off a couple months ago, I just stopped. I didn't notice a

difference.

But, those with a desperate need for HC, must wean themselves off slowly,

assuming that they should do that at all. It depends on how bad the

adrenals were, and whether they've rested enough yet or not.

Also, watch those aches and pains, as they can be from low cortisol. True,

it might be the viruses in the air, but low cortisol and low thyroid both

cause pain.

Low cortisol also causes frequent urination, depending on how bad you are.

Also, low pulse and low temp, and low BP so keep an eye on how you're doing

when going off.

Skipper

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Skipper Beers <lsb149@...> wrote:I used to be able to feel the bacteria / virus just jumping off other people at me.I can relate!The adrenals need lots of Vitamin C. So do the white blood cells, where it has to compete with sugar if you're consuming any. I learned a couple years ago, that a severe respiratory or other infection would go away quickly if I simply took a handful (5 or 6,000 mg) of Vitamin C EVERY hour. When really sick, I'd even wake up and take it. I'm going to have to remember to get some powder, because those big capsules are sure hard to swallow.The adrenals need Vitamin C and iodine. and the doctors who hold themselves out as adrenal experts would say you need magnesium too. I don't

seem to do well on magnesium, and I've read that those with low cortisol tend to have too much. Yet, Drs. Rind and writing about adrenal fatigue say it's good for us. So, that could help you too.I take Camu as my Vitaimin C and I also take magnesium. I have IC so taking regular ascorbic acid is out...causes a very painful bladder flare. The magnesium helps alkalize and I take it in conjunction with calcium 2:1 ratio.Here's where you have to be careful. The first year I was on it, my need for it was DESPERATE and I needed to take it 4 times daily, and not be late.After that, if I forgot to take it for a day or two, it wasn't really a problem. But, a few weeks of forgetting and I'd remember why I was taking it.So, I could just stop any time after that first year for periods of time.When I went off a couple months ago, I just stopped.

I didn't notice a difference.But, those with a desperate need for HC, must wean themselves off slowly, assuming that they should do that at all. It depends on how bad the adrenals were, and whether they've rested enough yet or not.I HAD to wean off the HC. Had only been on it for a couple weeks...ramping up and then promptly ramping down. The side effects for me were enormous and debilitating, sudden and severe. Bad headache, dizziness, blurred vision. Bad stomach upset and my liver started aching again...it's even tender to the touch. Bad IC frequency that kept me up all night. Just wasn't worth the benefits.I'm using Cortaid cream. Don't know if this will help my adrenals or not, but

at the very least a lot of my other symptoms are getting better, easing up.Also, watch those aches and pains, as they can be from low cortisol. True, it might be the viruses in the air, but low cortisol and low thyroid both cause pain.My aches and pains are definitely from low thyroid. I had what I thought was a thyroid dump before starting the HC. It was suggested to me to wean off my thyroid protocol which was 50 mcg of Cytomel. The last two weeks of that protocol, I had added one grain of Armour since saliva testing showed that my FT4 was also low. That's when everything began going south as it were.Low cortisol also causes frequent urination, depending on how bad you are.The strange thing about this Skipper, is that my frequency problems only started when I got up to 10 mgs of

HC. You'd think that by adding HC, any problems with frequency would have gone away, not newly arrived.Thanks for your input. I really value that and wish I could get this right. I've ordered Iodoral in the hope that the iodine will help get my thyroid back on track which will lessen my adrenal issues as well.Thanks,

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[Guest guest]

the prob here is not enough HC, probly not taken at the right time, and not enough Armour.

Gracia

Skipper Beers <lsb149hotmail> wrote:

I used to be able to feel the bacteria / virus just jumping off other people at me.I can relate!The adrenals need lots of Vitamin C. So do the white blood cells, where it has to compete with sugar if you're consuming any. I learned a couple years ago, that a severe respiratory or other infection would go away quickly if I simply took a handful (5 or 6,000 mg) of Vitamin C EVERY hour. When really sick, I'd even wake up and take it. I'm going to have to remember to get some powder, because those big capsules are sure hard to swallow.The adrenals need Vitamin C and iodine. and the doctors who hold themselves out as adrenal experts would say you need magnesium too. I don't seem to do well on magnesium, and I've read that those with low cortisol tend to have too much. Yet, Drs. Rind and writing about adrenal fatigue say it's good for us. So, that could help you too.I take Camu as my Vitaimin C and I also take magnesium. I have IC so taking regular ascorbic acid is out...causes a very painful bladder flare. The magnesium helps alkalize and I take it in conjunction with calcium 2:1 ratio.Here's where you have to be careful. The first year I was on it, my need for it was DESPERATE and I needed to take it 4 times daily, and not be late.After that, if I forgot to take it for a day or two, it wasn't really a problem. But, a few weeks of forgetting and I'd remember why I was taking it.So, I could just stop any time after that first year for periods of time.When I went off a couple months ago, I just stopped. I didn't notice a difference.But, those with a desperate need for HC, must wean themselves off slowly, assuming that they should do that at all. It depends on how bad the adrenals were, and whether they've rested enough yet or not.I HAD to wean off the HC. Had only been on it for a couple weeks...ramping up and then promptly ramping down. The side effects for me were enormous and debilitating, sudden and severe. Bad headache, dizziness, blurred vision. Bad stomach upset and my liver started aching again...it's even tender to the touch. Bad IC frequency that kept me up all night. Just wasn't worth the benefits.I'm using Cortaid cream. Don't know if this will help my adrenals or not, but at the very least a lot of my other symptoms are getting better, easing up.Also, watch those aches and pains, as they can be from low cortisol. True, it might be the viruses in the air, but low cortisol and low thyroid both cause pain.My aches and pains are definitely from low thyroid. I had what I thought was a thyroid dump before starting the HC. It was suggested to me to wean off my thyroid protocol which was 50 mcg of Cytomel. The last two weeks of that protocol, I had added one grain of Armour since saliva testing showed that my FT4 was also low. That's when everything began going south as it were.Low cortisol also causes frequent urination, depending on how bad you are.The strange thing about this Skipper, is that my frequency problems only started when I got up to 10 mgs of HC. You'd think that by adding HC, any problems with frequency would have gone away, not newly arrived.Thanks for your input. I really value that and wish I could get this right. I've ordered Iodoral in the hope that the iodine will help get my thyroid back on track which will lessen my adrenal issues as well.Thanks,

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My stomach and liver could not tolerate any higher amounts.Gracia <circe@...> wrote: the prob here is not enough HC, probly not taken at the right time, and not enough Armour. Gracia Skipper Beers <lsb149hotmail> wrote: I used to be able to feel the bacteria / virus just jumping off other people at me.I can relate!The adrenals need lots of Vitamin C. So do the white blood cells, where it has to compete with sugar if you're consuming any. I learned a couple years ago, that a severe respiratory or other infection would go away quickly if I simply took a handful (5 or 6,000 mg) of Vitamin C EVERY hour. When really sick, I'd even wake up and take it. I'm going to have to remember to get some powder, because those big capsules are sure hard to

swallow.The adrenals need Vitamin C and iodine. and the doctors who hold themselves out as adrenal experts would say you need magnesium too. I don't seem to do well on magnesium, and I've read that those with low cortisol tend to have too much. Yet, Drs. Rind and writing about adrenal fatigue say it's good for us. So, that could help you too.I take Camu as my Vitaimin C and I also take magnesium. I have IC so taking regular ascorbic acid is out...causes a very painful bladder flare. The magnesium helps alkalize and I take it in conjunction with calcium 2:1 ratio.Here's where you have to be careful. The first year I was on it, my need for it was DESPERATE and I needed to take it 4 times daily, and not be late.After that, if I forgot to take it for a day or two, it wasn't really a

problem. But, a few weeks of forgetting and I'd remember why I was taking it.So, I could just stop any time after that first year for periods of time.When I went off a couple months ago, I just stopped. I didn't notice a difference.But, those with a desperate need for HC, must wean themselves off slowly, assuming that they should do that at all. It depends on how bad the adrenals were, and whether they've rested enough yet or not.I HAD to wean off the HC. Had only been on it for a couple weeks...ramping up and then promptly ramping down. The side effects for me were enormous and debilitating, sudden and severe. Bad headache, dizziness, blurred vision. Bad stomach upset and my liver started aching again...it's even tender to the touch. Bad IC frequency that kept me up all night. Just wasn't worth the benefits.I'm using Cortaid cream. Don't know if this will help my adrenals or not, but at the very least a lot of my other symptoms are getting better, easing up.Also, watch those aches and pains, as they can be from low cortisol. True, it might be the viruses in the air, but low cortisol and low thyroid both cause pain.My aches and pains are definitely from low thyroid. I had what I thought was a thyroid dump before starting the HC. It was suggested to me to wean off my thyroid protocol which was 50 mcg of Cytomel. The last two weeks of that protocol, I had added one grain of Armour since saliva testing showed that my FT4 was also low. That's when everything began going south as it were.Low cortisol also causes frequent urination, depending on how bad you are.The strange thing about this Skipper, is that my frequency problems only started when I got up to 10 mgs of HC. You'd think that by adding HC, any problems with frequency would have gone away, not newly arrived.Thanks for your input. I really value that and wish I could get this right. I've ordered Iodoral in the hope that the iodine will help get my thyroid back on track which will lessen my adrenal issues as well.Thanks, Check out the all-new beta - Fire up a more powerful

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wrong dose will exacerbate symptoms. and it has to be used with thyoid meds, if you need them.

Gracia

My stomach and liver could not tolerate any higher amounts.Gracia <circe@...> wrote:

the prob here is not enough HC, probly not taken at the right time, and not enough Armour.

Gracia

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>From: Whitmore <phonicity@...>

>I HAD to wean off the HC. Had only been on it for a couple weeks...ramping

>up and then promptly ramping down. The side effects for me were enormous

>and debilitating, sudden and severe. Bad headache, dizziness, blurred

>vision. Bad stomach upset and my liver started aching again...it's even

>tender to the touch. Bad IC frequency that kept me up all night. Just

>wasn't worth the benefits.

How much HC are you talking about? Since it's a bio-identical hormone,

having that significant of an effect may mean you are low and simply need to

increase slowly. It really shouldn't have that much of an effect.

If you have adequate adrenals, if you take physiological amounts (generally

not more than 5 mg 4 times per day), if you take that much, the HPA axis

would just be suppressed and not produce any more. So, it sounds like

there's a big problem to be investigated, unless you were on a larger dose

of HC.

>I'm using Cortaid cream. Don't know if this will help my adrenals or not,

>but at the very least a lot of my other symptoms are getting better, easing

>up.

It helps some people.

>My aches and pains are definitely from low thyroid.

It's an assumption that may or may not be correct. Cortisol is an

anti-inflammatory, so low cortisol will cause aches and pains. The

mechanism for pain in low thyroid tend to be circulatory issues. Because

the heart / circulatory system are weaker, and the blood volume decreased

it's hard to get adequate oxygen / blood to the muscles, skin, and nerves.

>I had what I thought was a thyroid dump before starting the HC. It was

>suggested to me to >wean off my thyroid protocol which was 50 mcg of

>Cytomel. The last two weeks of that protocol, >I had added one grain of

>Armour since saliva testing showed that my FT4 was also low. That's >when

>everything began going south as it were.

Of course, if you're on Cytomel, fT4 will be low. T3 is the active thyroid

hormone. Some people do fine with large doses of Cytomel with a suppressed

TSH (i.e. -0-) and -0- T4. T4 is just a storage vehicle for active T3.

Some people say they do better with their T4 at particular levels, but in

some people it simply doesn't matter. Lowe puts fibromayalgia patients on

up to 175 mcg of Cytomel, and the patients it's appropriate for feel far

better than they did. They have no hyperthyroid signs like rapid heart

rate, and their fibromyalgia pain goes away.

>The strange thing about this Skipper, is that my frequency problems only

>started when I got up to 10 mgs of HC. You'd think that by adding HC, any

>problems with frequency would have gone away, not newly arrived.

You weren't on it long enough to see if that continues. Edema / fluid

builds up in the cells, and that may just have been getting rid of it.

>

>Thanks for your input. I really value that and wish I could get this

>right. I've ordered Iodoral in the hope that the iodine will help get my

>thyroid back on track which will lessen my adrenal issues as well.

The thing about iodine and thyroid is that some people may be able to go off

their thyroid meds with iodine. However, while you are taking the thyroid

meds, the thyroid is going to be " turned off " and not absorbing the iodine.

Which means one isn't likely to know if it's what their thyroid needs,

unless they go off their meds..

Skipper

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Skipper Beers <lsb149@...> wrote:How much HC are you talking about? Since it's a bio-identical hormone, having that significant of an effect may mean you are low and simply need to increase slowly. It really shouldn't have that much of an effect.I was dosing according to the Stop The Thyroid Madness protocol starting at 2.5 once per day and graduall working my way up to 5/2.5/2.5 with NO thyroid supplementation.If you have adequate adrenals, if you take physiological amounts (generally not more than 5 mg 4 times per day), if you take that much, the HPA axis would just be suppressed and not produce any more. So, it sounds like there's a big problem to be investigated, unless you were on a larger dose of HC.Can you point me in the direction of what my big problem might possibly be so that I can research this?>My aches and pains are definitely from low thyroid.It's an assumption that may or may not be correct. Cortisol is an anti-inflammatory, so low cortisol will cause aches and pains. The mechanism for pain in low thyroid tend to be circulatory issues. Becausethe heart / circulatory system are weaker, and the blood volume decreased it's hard to get adequate oxygen / blood to the muscles, skin, and nerves.I make this assumption based on past experience with T3, specifically the 's timed-release T3 which, during the first cycle, took all of my fibro pain completely away. I felt much better on Cytomel as well.The two times I've tried to take Armour, I've

not felt nearly as good. Got up to 3.5 grains the first time. Didn't make it past one grain this time.Of course, if you're on Cytomel, fT4 will be low. T3 is the active thyroid hormone. Some people do fine with large doses of Cytomel with a suppressed TSH (i.e. -0-) and -0- T4. T4 is just a storage vehicle for active T3.Some people say they do better with their T4 at particular levels, but in some people it simply doesn't matter. Lowe puts fibromayalgia patients on up to 175 mcg of Cytomel, and the patients it's appropriate for feel far better than they did. They have no hyperthyroid signs like rapid heart rate, and their fibromyalgia pain goes away.That agrees with my personal experience completely. Maybe I should just go back to using Cytomel and work on adrenals by supplementing with a glandular extract.The thing about iodine

and thyroid is that some people may be able to go off their thyroid meds with iodine. However, while you are taking the thyroid meds, the thyroid is going to be "turned off" and not absorbing the iodine. Which means one isn't likely to know if it's what their thyroid needs, unless they go off their meds.Since I'm not taking any thyroid meds now, I can wait until I try Iodine for a bit to see how I feel. I've been debating about whether or not to do the loading test. What is your take on it, Skipper?Thanks for your help.

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[Guest guest]

>From: Whitmore <phonicity@...>

>Can you point me in the direction of what my big problem might possibly be

>so that I can research this?

You were talking about liver pain as if it were normal for you, but HC made

it worse?

First, liver pain might point to hepatitis. Hepatitis must be easily

spread, nearby about ten years ago it was spread on some strawberries in the

school lunch program (which by law were supposed to be from the USA, but

were from Mexico.)

If you have liver pain, I'm guessing you may already know what the liver

problem is?

That could also explain why you do better on T3 alone, because most T4 is

converted to T3 in the liver.

If no liver disease, maybe you just need a liver cleanse? (Also called a

gall bladder cleanse and done by drinking olive oil, but read up on it

first.)

Liver pain is certainly not a normal side effect of hydrocortisone, and

makes no sense to me unless there's an underlying liver problem. The other

side effects seem uncommon too, especially at the level of HC you were at.

Cortisol is on the feedback loop, and as you increase at the level you were

at the worst that should happen is you took enough to suppress the HPA axis.

Which should then lower your own cortisol production and not create any

problems. But, since you were well below full replacement dose, that's not

likely so it's strange you would have any reaction at all to it.

Do you have allergies? If I remember, some people with allergies to aspirin

or tartrazine, a yellow coloring in things like fritos can have allergic

reactions to HC.

>That agrees with my personal experience completely. Maybe I should just go

>back to using Cytomel and work on adrenals by supplementing with a

>glandular extract.

Search for Dr. C. Lowe if you want support for how well T3 alone can

work for Cytomel patients (or get his thousand page book " Metabolic

Treatment of Fibromyalgia.)

>Since I'm not taking any thyroid meds now, I can wait until I try Iodine

>for a bit to see how I feel. I've been debating about whether or not to do

>the loading test. What is your take on it, Skipper?

Just be aware that thyroid symptoms can sneak in quite subtly. Might be

helpful to make sure someone who knows you well is keeping an eye on you and

making sure you're not getting worse without your knowledge. As my thyroid

doc said, " it seems the self-critical function is often the first thing to

go. "

Skipper

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I was dosing according to the Stop The Thyroid Madness protocol starting at 2.5 once per day and graduall working my way up to 5/2.5/2.5 with NO thyroid supplementation

this doesn't sound like a recipe for success to me, too bad.

you would feel better on 5mg 4X a day.

Gracia

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Skipper, You are kind to go into such detail. I appreciate that very much as my understanding is limited.Skipper Beers <lsb149@...> wrote:You were talking about liver pain as if it were normal for you, but HC made it worse?I had pretty much resolved the liver ache with Natural Cellular Defense (NCD) which is zeolite used to chelate heavy metals. When nothing else worked, this took the ache away in about three days. I ran out, however and will order more.When I weaned off both the NCD and the Cytomel, I had the strangest thing happen. My hip joints locked up. I can walk, but I can't (pardon me here) spread my knees. I usually do a

Buddha pose for stretching where you lie on your back, feet together and knees spread out as far as possible. I have been doing this for years. Now I can't do more than 15 inches or so apart.My plan was to ramp up to 20 mgs of HC, add back the thyroid meds per STTM instructions to see if perhaps this was due to lowered thyroid hormones. If this didn't work, I had planned on adding back the NCD.Any thoughts?First, liver pain might point to hepatitis. Hepatitis must be easily spread, nearby about ten years ago it was spread on some strawberries in the school lunch program (which by law were supposed to be from the USA, but were from Mexico.)If you have liver pain, I'm guessing you may already know what the liver problem

is?No. I've seen two GPs and been to the ER once. Liver and kidney enzymes are okay. I'll look up hepatitis. I am not jaundiced at all, but don't know what other symptoms are associated with hep. Good place to start.That could also explain why you do better on T3 alone, because most T4 is converted to T3 in the liver.If no liver disease, maybe you just need a liver cleanse? (Also called a gall bladder cleanse and done by drinking olive oil, but read up on it first.)I looked up instructions on Dr. ce 's web site and will do that this weekend.Liver pain is certainly not a normal side effect of hydrocortisone, and makes no sense to me unless there's an underlying liver problem. The other side effects seem uncommon too, especially at the level of HC you were at.Cortisol is on the feedback

loop, and as you increase at the level you were at the worst that should happen is you took enough to suppress the HPA axis. Which should then lower your own cortisol production and not create any problems. But, since you were well below full replacement dose, that's not likely so it's strange you would have any reaction at all to it.Do you have allergies? If I remember, some people with allergies to aspirin or tartrazine, a yellow coloring in things like fritos can have allergic reactions to HC.I do have allergies to compazine, codeine and cipro...basically cipro just makes me feel like death, but compazine causes and out and out need to go to the ER and get one of those shots...it's been a long, long time.My allergic reactions have come mostly in the form of IC pain. Whenever I take supplements and prescriptions, I

get a bladder flare. It takes a lot of research and many trials (dollars too) to find a supplement that I can tolerate.Search for Dr. C. Lowe if you want support for how well T3 alone can work for Cytomel patients (or get his thousand page book "Metabolic Treatment of Fibromyalgia.)I have his book, Your Guide To Metabolic Health...currently on loan to someone...and agree with everything except his advices to take the entire dose of T3 at one time. I understand the reasoning of needing to be taken on an empty stomach/empty bowel to ensure greatest absorption, but it is better tolerated by me if I multi-dose.Timed-release T3 didn't do a whole lot for me...probably for this reason. I did much better multi-dosing Cytomel. This is before I learned about Iodine though.Do you think there

is enough "extra" info in Metabolic Treatment of Fibromyalgia to warrant the $99.99 price?Just be aware that thyroid symptoms can sneak in quite subtly. Might be helpful to make sure someone who knows you well is keeping an eye on you and making sure you're not getting worse without your knowledge. As my thyroid doc said, "it seems the self-critical function is often the first thing to go."My hubby stands in as my "brakes." LOL He's good about keeping a close eye on me. What about the loading test. Is it valid in your opinion?Thanks again for your input. This is really helping me get clear on what I need to do.

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wrote:

I had pretty much resolved the liver ache with Natural Cellular Defense (NCD) which is zeolite used to chelate heavy metals. When nothing else worked, this took the ache away in about three days. I ran out, however and will order more.When I weaned off both the NCD and the Cytomel, I had the strangest thing happen. My hip joints locked up. I can walk, but I can't (pardon me here) spread my knees. I usually do a Buddha pose for stretching where you lie on your back, feet together and knees spread out as far as possible. I have been doing this for years. Now I can't do more than 15 inches or so apart.My plan was to ramp up to 20 mgs of HC, add back the thyroid meds per STTM instructions to see if perhaps this was due to lowered thyroid hormones. If this didn't work, I had planned on adding back the NCD.Any thoughts?First, liver pain might point to hepatitis. Hepatitis must be easily spread, nearby about ten years ago it was spread on some strawberries in the school lunch program (which by law were supposed to be from the USA, but were from Mexico.)If you have liver pain, I'm guessing you may already know what the liver problem is?No. I've seen two GPs and been to the ER once. Liver and kidney enzymes are okay. I'll look up hepatitis. I am not jaundiced at all, but don't know what other symptoms are associated with hep. Good place to start.That could also explain why you do better on T3 alone, because most T4 is converted to T3 in the liver.If no liver disease, maybe you just need a liver cleanse? (Also called a gall bladder cleanse and done by drinking olive oil, but read up on it first.)I looked up instructions on Dr. ce 's web site and will do that this weekend.Liver pain is certainly not a normal side effect of hydrocortisone, and makes no sense to me unless there's an underlying liver problem. The other side effects seem uncommon too, especially at the level of HC you were at.Cortisol is on the feedback loop, and as you increase at the level you were at the worst that should happen is you took enough to suppress the HPA axis. Which should then lower your own cortisol production and not create any problems. But, since you were well below full replacement dose, that's not likely so it's strange you would have any reaction at all to it.Do you have allergies? If I remember, some people with allergies to aspirin or tartrazine, a yellow coloring in things like fritos can have allergic reactions to HC.I do have allergies to compazine, codeine and cipro...basically cipro just makes me feel like death, but compazine causes and out and out need to go to the ER and get one of those shots...it's been a long, long time.My allergic reactions have come mostly in the form of IC pain. Whenever I take supplements and prescriptions, I get a bladder flare. It takes a lot of research and many trials (dollars too) to find a supplement that I can tolerate.Search for Dr. C. Lowe if you want support for how well T3 alone can work for Cytomel patients (or get his thousand page book "Metabolic Treatment of Fibromyalgia.)I have his book, Your Guide To Metabolic Health...currently on loan to someone...and agree with everything except his advices to take the entire dose of T3 at one time. I understand the reasoning of needing to be taken on an empty stomach/empty bowel to ensure greatest absorption, but it is better tolerated by me if I multi-dose.Timed-release T3 didn't do a whole lot for me...probably for this reason. I did much better multi-dosing Cytomel. This is before I learned about Iodine though.Do you think there is enough "extra" info in Metabolic Treatment

[Guest guest]

>From: Whitmore <phonicity@...>

>I had pretty much resolved the liver ache with Natural Cellular Defense

>(NCD) which is zeolite used to chelate heavy metals. When nothing else

>worked, this took the ache away in about three days. I ran out, however

>and will order more.

Mike (The Health Ranger) review of that product is pretty impressive,

and he notes it does help the liver -

http://www.newstarget.com/019825.html

The results of research on zeolite are very impressive:

1. Zeolite appears to prevent and may become an important treatment for

cancer. In one study, 78 percent of the 65 participants with terminal cancer

(many types) are now in complete remission for 12 months (LifeLink

Pharmaceuticals, 2005, currently not published).

2. It has a chelation-like effect in removing heavy metals (particularly

lead, mercury, cadmium, and arsenic), pesticides, herbicides, PCBs, and

other toxins from the body, shown in a study of miners at Duke University.

These toxins are strongly correlated with the occurrence of a wide range of

diseases, including cancers and neurological disorders such as Alzheimer’s,

autism, and dementia.

3. Zeolite also improves liver function, indirectly improving elimination

of pesticides, herbicides, and xeno-estrogens.

4. Zeolite appears to block viral replication, and may prove to be a

potent anti-viral and general remedy for all viruses. To date, 40 anecdotal

cases of herpes zoster have reportedly been healed. Preliminary anecdotal

case studies suggest that it may help alleviate rheumatoid arthritis,

multiple sclerosis, and hepatitis C as well as the common cold and flu.

5. Zeolite’s binding power was proven during the Chernobyl disaster, when

tons of it were used to remove radioactive cesium and strontium-90 before

they contaminated local water systems.

6. Zeolite creates a natural buffer in the system by establishing an

optimal pH level (between 7.35 and 7.45), which in turn activates healthy

brain function and a strong immune system.

7. It is an effective detoxifier for prospective mothers and fathers.

Anecdotal evidence and centuries of use in Asia suggest that zeolite is safe

to use even during pregnancy and breastfeeding, although its safe use in

pregnancy has not been proven in double-blind studies.

**************************************************************

The liver is one of the most important organs, you really do need to get at

the bottom of the liver problem if you can. That reaction to HC simply

wasn't normal.

>When I weaned off both the NCD and the Cytomel, I had the strangest thing

>happen. My hip joints locked up. I can walk, but I can't (pardon me here)

>spread my knees.

I don't know how quickly, it degrades. But for a hypothyroid person, the

circulation is impaired and the blood volume is lowered to compensate. The

body needs to keep up core body temp to the brains and it shuts down

circulation to the skin and other unimportant places. This is part of the

reason for muscle pain and joint problems.

>I do have allergies to compazine, codeine and cipro...basically cipro just

>makes me feel like death,

Cipro gives you fluoride poisoining. It's the drug in it's class that has

the most severe effects, and it makes you extremely hypothyroid.

>but compazine causes and out and out need to go to the ER and get one of

>those shots...it's been a long, long time.

The class of drugs compazine is in has tartrazine -

http://www.drugs.com/cons/PMS_Prochlorperazine.html

Some of the phenothiazine dosage forms contain parabens, sulfites, or

tartrazine.

***********

So, it could be the tartrazine you're allergic to. It's in Mountain Dew and

Tang, any problems with those?

>Timed-release T3 didn't do a whole lot for me...probably for this reason.

>I did much better multi-dosing Cytomel. This is before I learned about

>Iodine though.

The pharmacy you get it from makes a big difference. It's hard to compound

properly.

>

>Do you think there is enough " extra " info in Metabolic Treatment of

>Fibromyalgia to warrant the $99.99 price?

Never read it, but if you have his other book, probably not.

> What about the loading test. Is it valid in your opinion?

It's a reasonable test. I didn't take it, don't think I need to. But, if I

was debating whether to take iodine or not I might. Since I live in an

iodine deficient state, and lived in Michigan in 1973 when PBB was

introduced in cattle feed and we were all exposed to PBB (bromine interferes

with iodine), I'm certain I have issues and need it. If this weren't the

case, I would get the loading test.

Skipper

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[Guest guest]

Please remember that most (not all) of the zeolite on the market today is

MLM (multi-level marketing). I have a serious problem with #1 below and I

would bet that the FDA will jump on this, if it ever gets published. I'm

not against zeolite, but I am against claims like #1 as there is absolutely

no magic bullet for cancer--conventionally or naturally.

Also, there are some that actually warn against zeolite. Again, the jury is

still out on this product.

I would bet that the people who went into remission were also doing other

things like healthy diet, exercise, other alternative modalities,

supplementation, etc. And some of them may be in a short remission from the

results of conventional care. But with MLM's we never hear about the

" other " things that are helping the body synergistically to get well.

Just a caution to be careful of products which are MLM as the distributors

tend not to give or actually know the " whole story " or they pass things

around that are hear-say only. Also, MLM products tend to be very

over-priced. You can usually find the same product elsewhere for much less.

All I am saying is to be sure and do your research.

I appreaciate Mike Adam's writings and agree with him almost all of the

time, but in this case, I think that the claims below, even though there may

be some truth, may also be very misleading.

Loretta

Mike (The Health Ranger) review of that product is pretty impressive,

and he notes it does help the liver -

http://www.newstarget.com/019825.html

The results of research on zeolite are very impressive:

1. Zeolite appears to prevent and may become an important treatment for

cancer. In one study, 78 percent of the 65 participants with terminal cancer

(many types) are now in complete remission for 12 months (LifeLink

Pharmaceuticals, 2005, currently not published).

2. It has a chelation-like effect in removing heavy metals (particularly

lead, mercury, cadmium, and arsenic), pesticides, herbicides, PCBs, and

other toxins from the body, shown in a study of miners at Duke University.

These toxins are strongly correlated with the occurrence of a wide range of

diseases, including cancers and neurological disorders such as Alzheimer's,

autism, and dementia.

3. Zeolite also improves liver function, indirectly improving elimination

of pesticides, herbicides, and xeno-estrogens.

4. Zeolite appears to block viral replication, and may prove to be a

potent anti-viral and general remedy for all viruses. To date, 40 anecdotal

cases of herpes zoster have reportedly been healed. Preliminary anecdotal

case studies suggest that it may help alleviate rheumatoid arthritis,

multiple sclerosis, and hepatitis C as well as the common cold and flu.

5. Zeolite's binding power was proven during the Chernobyl disaster, when

tons of it were used to remove radioactive cesium and strontium-90 before

they contaminated local water systems.

6. Zeolite creates a natural buffer in the system by establishing an

optimal pH level (between 7.35 and 7.45), which in turn activates healthy

brain function and a strong immune system.

7. It is an effective detoxifier for prospective mothers and fathers.

Anecdotal evidence and centuries of use in Asia suggest that zeolite is safe

to use even during pregnancy and breastfeeding, although its safe use in

pregnancy has not been proven in double-blind studies.

**************************************************************

[Guest guest]

I don't know what happened. This is the post I sent before, but it seemed

to have been switched with the other one. I see Skipper has replied to the

topic since then, citing a very different opinion about NCD. I just read

about this stuff, but a biochemist expert says Zeolite does not have the

pharmacokinetics to effectively remove mercury from the body. Maybe it

works for other heavy metals.

Is there an iodine connection? I wonder if mercury and/or other heavy

metals intereses with iodine metabolism.

> wrote:

>

> I had pretty much resolved the liver ache with Natural Cellular Defense

> (NCD) which is zeolite used to chelate heavy metals. When nothing else

> worked, this took the ache away in about three days. I ran out, however

and

> will order more.

>

> When I weaned off both the NCD and the Cytomel, I had the strangest thing

> happen. My hip joints locked up. I can walk, but I can't (pardon me

here)

> spread my knees. I usually do a Buddha pose for stretching where you lie

on

> your back, feet together and knees spread out as far as possible. I have

> been doing this for years. Now I can't do more than 15 inches or so

apart.

>

> My plan was to ramp up to 20 mgs of HC, add back the thyroid meds per STTM

> instructions to see if perhaps this was due to lowered thyroid hormones.

If

> this didn't work, I had planned on adding back the NCD.

>

> Any thoughts?

>

>

> LM: , why haven't you considered the NCD as possibly causing your

> problems? Your current problems sound nothing like anything I've ever

heard

> associated with thyroid and adrenal supplementation. However, they could

be

> explained by mercury redistribution, which could be due to your taking

NCD.

> I suspect your fix for your initial liver ache has wound up causing you

even

> more problems.

>

> Do you have any amalgam fillings in your teeth? Any type of chelation is

> totally contraindicated if you do. The marketing on NCD sounds wonderful,

> but the product has been been thoroughly discredited as an effective

> detoxification method by the experts on the Frequent Dose Chelation

> group. Since this is OT for this group, I refer you there if you want

more

> information. Essentially many substances can grab onto to heavy metals,

but

> do not bind strongly enough to remain bound until the heavy metal is

> excreted from the body. If the bond with the heavy metal is broken, the

> heavy metal gets deposited elsewhere in the body. Another way of saying

> that is that the heavy metal gets redistributed. It's merely moved from

> it's original location in the body to another location, and it usually

> becomes more troublesome at that point.

>

> Lynn

[Guest guest]

Again Skipper, thank you for spending time and energy on my problem!Skipper Beers <lsb149@...> wrote:Yes, the NCD worked wonders. I took only 10 drops per day which isn't even the full recommended dose. Will have to reorder this product as I believe it's a keeper.The liver is one of the most important organs, you really do need to get at the bottom of the liver problem if you can. That reaction to HC simply wasn't normal.Someone suggested today that I might simply be feeling a herx reaction to the NCD and HC opening things up. This seems a possibility.for a hypothyroid person, the circulation is impaired and the blood volume is lowered to compensate. The body needs to keep up core body temp to the brains and it shuts

down circulation to the skin and other unimportant places. This is part of the reason for muscle pain and joint problems.I have been stumped by the frozen hip joint symtom so today I phoned Dr. Mark for a consult. The first thing he asked me was if my last saliva test had shown me to be high in progesterone. It did. He said that this was most likely my problem. High progesterone is what allows women to (pardon) spread unnaturally wide to accomdate the birth process. When P is high it can also have reverse effects on ligaments.I asked him why this didn't occur earlier on when my P was even higher than it is now. He thought most likely it was the altering of thyroid and adrenal meds. He said that once I get my hormones balance and my body re-mineralized, I shouldn't have this

problem. He though iodine was an excellent choice for my particular needs.I am SO relieved to hear this. Thought I would be stuck this way for life! :)Cipro gives you fluoride poisoining. It's the drug in it's class that has the most severe effects, and it makes you extremely hypothyroid.Thank you for helping me finally understand WHY I my body doesn't like Cipro! Another mystery solved!!The class of drugs compazine is in has tartrazine -http://www.drugs.com/cons/PMS_Prochlorperazine.htmlSome of the phenothiazine dosage forms contain parabens, sulfites, or tartrazine.Wow, I never knew it was something IN the compazine. They gave that to me to help stop vomitting. I used to have a terrible time with that when I

was a kid. I don't drink Tang or Moutain Dew thank goodness! I will be on the look out for FD & C ANY #.The pharmacy you get it from makes a big difference. It's hard to compound properly.We used Medaus which is Dr. 's preferred compounding pharmacy. They were wonderful to deal with.(bromine interferes with iodine), I'm certain I have issues and need it. If this weren't the case, I would get the loading test.I have a multi-nodular goiter and all nutritional analysis indicates a deficiency, so I think I'm going to go ahead. Dr. is sending a Standard Process product with iodine. So between the Iodoral and the SP supplement, I should be alright. Don't plan to dose very high.Thanks for your help and indulging my

many questions._________________________________________________________________MSN Shopping has everything on your holiday list. Get expert picks by style, age, and price. Try it! http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId=8000,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=200601 & tcode=wlmtaglineIodine

[Guest guest]

LM: , why haven't you considered the NCD as possibly causing yourproblems? I thought I had made it clear that I HAD suspected it might be either the NCD or the Cytomel/Armour that I had weaned off.Your current problems sound nothing like anything I've ever heardassociated with thyroid and adrenal supplementation. However, they could be explained by mercury redistribution, which could be due to your taking NCD.This certainly is a possibility that is why I was discussing it here with you good folks.I suspect your fix for your initial liver ache has wound up causing you even more problems.I did not take NCD to fix my liver. I have interstitial cystitis and agreed to test this product for an

author of three books on IC who is in the process of writing a fourth. She herself is also testing NCD and since it has alkalizing properties which greatly helps those of us with IC, she thought this might be a great help to us because most of what is used to chelate heavy metals is too strong for an IC bladder. It just happened to resolve an achy liver that had been plaguing me all this year.Do you have any amalgam fillings in your teeth? Any type of chelation istotally contraindicated if you do. Yes. I do. But I don't agree here.The marketing on NCD sounds wonderful, but the product has been been thoroughly discredited as an effective detoxification method by the experts on the Frequent Dose Chelation group. Since this is OT for this group, I refer you there if you want more information. Please provide a link to more specific information...say an abstract or some kind of science to back up your strong decreditation.

Everyone is raving about the all-new beta.

[Guest guest]

I appreciate the warning. I'm not married to this product and I certainly don't want to sell it. But I grew up in an MLM family (life insurance) and fully understand the ins and outs of MLMs. My father lost his sight when I was nine years old and if it hadn't been for an opportunity such as an MLM where my parents could work together, we would have had to gone on the old dole.So I have to say that not all products marketed in this fashion are bogus.MLM folks are people trying to earn a living too. Granted they can get pesky due to their training. But please be kind to them. Balance in everything is what we all should aim for. :)"Dr. Loretta Lanphier" <LorettaLanphier@...> wrote: Please remember that most (not all) of the zeolite on the market today

isMLM (multi-level marketing). I have a serious problem with #1 below and Iwould bet that the FDA will jump on this, if it ever gets published. I'mnot against zeolite, but I am against claims like #1 as there is absolutelyno magic bullet for cancer--conventionally or naturally.Also, there are some that actually warn against zeolite. Again, the jury isstill out on this product. I would bet that the people who went into remission were also doing otherthings like healthy diet, exercise, other alternative modalities,supplementation, etc. And some of them may be in a short remission from theresults of conventional care. But with MLM's we never hear about the"other" things that are helping the body synergistically to get well.Just a caution to be careful of products which are MLM as the distributorstend not to give or actually know the "whole story" or they pass thingsaround that are hear-say only. Also,

MLM products tend to be veryover-priced. You can usually find the same product elsewhere for much less.All I am saying is to be sure and do your research.I appreaciate Mike Adam's writings and agree with him almost all of thetime, but in this case, I think that the claims below, even though there maybe some truth, may also be very misleading.LorettaMike (The Health Ranger) review of that product is pretty impressive, and he notes it does help the liver -http://www.newstarget.com/019825.htmlThe results of research on zeolite are very impressive: 1. Zeolite appears to prevent and may become an important treatment for cancer. In one study, 78 percent of the 65 participants with terminal cancer(many types) are now in complete remission for 12 months (LifeLink Pharmaceuticals, 2005, currently not published). 2. It has a chelation-like effect in removing heavy metals (particularly

lead, mercury, cadmium, and arsenic), pesticides, herbicides, PCBs, and other toxins from the body, shown in a study of miners at Duke University. These toxins are strongly correlated with the occurrence of a wide range of diseases, including cancers and neurological disorders such as Alzheimer's, autism, and dementia. 3. Zeolite also improves liver function, indirectly improving eliminationof pesticides, herbicides, and xeno-estrogens. 4. Zeolite appears to block viral replication, and may prove to be a potent anti-viral and general remedy for all viruses. To date, 40 anecdotal cases of herpes zoster have reportedly been healed. Preliminary anecdotal case studies suggest that it may help alleviate rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis, and hepatitis C as well as the common cold and flu. 5. Zeolite's binding power was proven during the Chernobyl disaster, whentons of it were used to remove radioactive

cesium and strontium-90 before they contaminated local water systems. 6. Zeolite creates a natural buffer in the system by establishing an optimal pH level (between 7.35 and 7.45), which in turn activates healthy brain function and a strong immune system. 7. It is an effective detoxifier for prospective mothers and fathers. Anecdotal evidence and centuries of use in Asia suggest that zeolite is safeto use even during pregnancy and breastfeeding, although its safe use in pregnancy has not been proven in double-blind studies.**************************************************************Iodine

[Guest guest]

>From: Whitmore <phonicity@...>

>Thank you for helping me finally understand WHY I my body doesn't like

>Cipro!

In my opinion, unless a person would die otherwise they shouldn't take

Cipro. Docs give it out way too easy with all the side effects. Good

article on it at -

http://www.westonaprice.org/healthissues/cipro.html

The liver has been identified as a target organ of fluoroquinolone toxicity

in animal studies

*******************

Also tells about some of the other fluorinated drugs. Your liver pain may

have something to do with your reaction to drugs as many are metabolized in

the liver, including Cipro.

>Wow, I never knew it was something IN the compazine. They gave that to me

>to help stop vomitting. I used to have a terrible time with that when I

>was a kid. I don't drink Tang or Moutain Dew thank goodness! I will be on

>the look out for FD & C ANY #.

Ginger is really good for nausea. It has a lot of good properties. (But,

when cooked, I have an allergic reaction to it.)

>We used Medaus which is Dr. 's preferred compounding pharmacy. They

>were wonderful to deal with.

We do too, but compounded T3 is not likely to be as potent as Cytomel. Lowe

allegedly investigated and found it could be only 40 percent as potent, and

he claimed 's Syndrome wasn't good science, or something. My wife

takes 202.5 mcg of T3 twice daily. I'm sure that's not equivalent to 405

mcg of Cytomel, but loses a lot of potency in the compounding.

Good idea to start iodine before going back on thyroid meds, because then

your thyroid can really soak up the iodine. Otherwise it's turned off, and

you won't know if your thyroid problem was from lack of iodine.

Skipper

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

actually quinolones can be pretty toxic to the liver...liver enzymes

are high after a round of quinolones. quinolone ingestion (the

flouride?) is apparently a factor in my own adrenal insufficiency.

the quinolone forum is full of hashi's folks who went unstable on their

thyroid meds...and i'm assuming that's because conversion was

interrupted by the fact of quinolone effect on the enzyme in the liver

responsible for that.

cindi

>

>

> Also tells about some of the other fluorinated drugs. Your liver

pain may

> have something to do with your reaction to drugs as many are

metabolized in

> the liver, including Cipro.

[Guest guest]

I would

suspect that selling life insurance and health products are much different when

it comes to MLM marketing. Also my

heads-up was for education only as what was reported by Mike is kind-of

misleading. Most MLM products are not

bogus—it’s the information that they spread around about what the

product can do for people and the marketing (before long they have it curing

cancer) that bothers me and it happens with just about every MLM that sells any

type of supplementation.

I have

heard many of the testimonies about cures and have even been called about these

“cures”. Again I would suspect that the patients are doing other

things that help the body to repair and heal—they just usually “forget”

to mention that.

Loretta

From: iodine [mailto:iodine ] On Behalf Of Whitmore

Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006

6:05 PM

iodine

Subject: RE: OT Weaning

off HC

I appreciate the warning. I'm not married to this product and

I certainly don't want to sell it. But I grew up in an MLM family (life

insurance) and fully understand the ins and outs of MLMs. My father lost

his sight when I was nine years old and if it hadn't been for an opportunity

such as an MLM where my parents could work together, we would have had to gone

on the old dole.

So I have to say that not all products marketed in this fashion are bogus.

MLM folks are people trying to earn a living too. Granted they can get

pesky due to their training. But please be kind to them. Balance in

everything is what we all should aim for.

[Guest guest]

>From: Bill Kingsbury <b.b.bb@...>

>At 12:19 PM 11/29/2006, Skipper Beers wrote (in part):

> >

> >The thing about iodine and thyroid is that some people may be able to go

>off their thyroid meds with iodine. However, while you are taking the

>thyroid meds, the thyroid is going to be " turned off " and not absorbing the

>iodine. Which means one isn't likely to know if it's what their thyroid

>needs, unless they go off their meds.. Skipper

>

>

>Hi Skipper,

>

>The following link was posted here today, that seems to differ

>from your statement above. Is Dr. West perhaps in disagreement

>somewhat, on this point?

Dr. Derry said if one took 12.5 mcg of iodine daily, the thyroid would soak

it up for the first couple weeks until it reached saturation. Then the

iodine would go other places it was needed. However, if one was on thyroid

medication, it was " turned off " and would not soak up the iodine. He may

have been referring to the suppressive doses he gave, I don't know.

It has been posted several times here that taking thyroid hormone (Synthroid

or Armour) will actually deplete the iodine from the thyroid. There was a

link to one study where they measured that effect, I think before someone

took thyroid meds and then after, and the levels of iodine in the thyroid

would be a lot lower. I don't remember if the people were taking

supplemental iodine or not.

>

>Also, did I read that you 'successfully' stopped taking Armour

>and Cortef entirely? If so, which did you stop first? And,

>could you give some related suggestions, for others to follow?

Not really. I stopped the Cortef first. Which probably means I forgot to

take it for a couple days, then said " why bother, wait and see what

happens. " Historically I start feeling bad after a couple days. In the

beginning on Cortef, my need for it was desperate. The past few years, I've

needed it but I could skip a day without trouble. Now, it seems as though I

simply don't need it. I attribute it to the Lugol's Solution I've been

taking. The adrenals have a lot of iodine in them, they just don't know

why.

http://iodine4health.com/

" It is found in high levels in the thyroid, breast, liver, lung, heart, and

adrenals. "

There must be a reason it's high in the adrenals. TB is the main cause of

's Disease, so maybe it's needed to fight off bacteria and viruses.

Or maybe it distributes part of the iodine in some of the hormones it shoots

out. Don't the adrenals secrete about 250 different hormones?

After that I went off the Armour. Don't feel any different now than when I

was taking it.

So, I've been off a couple months now.

Don't know if this is a termporary anomaly, or I don't need the treatments

as long as I take Lugol's.

>Iodine Fulfillment Therapy

>Bruce West, DC

>

>--- excerpt:

>

> " Whole body iodine sufficiency is also a critical means to counter

>the side effects of thyroid hormone medications (Synthroid, etc.).

>Long-term use of these drugs is associated with depletion of thyroid

>and tissue iodine levels, as well as increased rates of cancer.

>Fluorescent scanning of the thyroid clearly shows how drug and other

>medical thyroid therapies deplete the gland and body of critical

>iodine. Therefore, Synthroid or thyroid-destructive therapies

>should never be taken without iodine therapy -­ something you will

>never hear from your endocrinologist.

Note, the above paragraph seems to say to me, that Synthroid will deplete

the thyroid of iodine, which is why it needs to be supplemented. Maybe

Derry's comment meant no more iodine would be absorbed if medication was

dosed to suppress TSH, which he did with most of his patients, as his

starting dose was 3 grains of Armour for most patients. He also had them

take Lugol's.

Skipper

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[Guest guest]

Skipper,

Keep an eye out over the next few weeks. When I did this last summer

it took about 4 months before I noticed any symptoms.

Linn

>

> After that I went off the Armour. Don't feel any different now

> than when I

> was taking it.

>

> So, I've been off a couple months now.

>

> Don't know if this is a termporary anomaly, or I don't need the

> treatments

> as long as I take Lugol's.

>

[Guest guest]

My Endo told me that it's ok to miss a few armour doses cause it takes

about 4-6 weeks for the thyroid hormone in your body to be depleted.

The problem is that once it's depleted it takes another 4 to 6 weeks

to build it up again in your body. And, in the meantime, your hair is

falling out, wieght again etc etc. Is it worth it?

Suzanne

>

> Skipper,

>

> Keep an eye out over the next few weeks. When I did this last summer

> it took about 4 months before I noticed any symptoms.

>

> Linn

>

> >

> > After that I went off the Armour. Don't feel any different now

> > than when I

> > was taking it.

> >

> > So, I've been off a couple months now.

> >

> > Don't know if this is a termporary anomaly, or I don't need the

> > treatments

> > as long as I take Lugol's.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>From: " Suzanne " <gddsssuze@...>

>My Endo told me that it's ok to miss a few armour doses cause it takes

>about 4-6 weeks for the thyroid hormone in your body to be depleted.

>The problem is that once it's depleted it takes another 4 to 6 weeks

>to build it up again in your body. And, in the meantime, your hair is

>falling out, wieght again etc etc. Is it worth it?

First, it's only the T4 that has a long half life (6-10 days). T3 has a

half life of 2 days, and it's not necessary to build it up, it works almost

instantly.

So, Armour works a whole lot quicker than Synthroid.

Secondly, just because they say " you'll be on the medicine the rest of your

life " doesn't make it true. If one goes off and their temperature stays up,

and they don't regress to their old hypothyroid symptoms it may simply be

they don't need to be on the medication any more.

Third, it is true the symptoms can be somewhat subtle. Once, when my doctor

cut my thyroid meds she decided my problems weren't from the thyroid any

more since my labs were " normal. " She was wrong, and it took me about a

year to figure out I needed to increase.

These days, I know what symptoms to look for (almost any health problem but

especially sleep apnea, cold, fatigue, etc.) and if I start developing

symptoms I'll start back on it. But, I may not need to. People do get

better, sometimes on their own, sometimes with improved nutriton. And

living in an iodine deficient state where we all ingested PBB back in the

70s, it wouldn't be a surprise to find that low iodine was my real thyroid

problem.

Skipper

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