Re: Re: Cortef - one more question

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hydrocortisone is a steroid hormone. I think what your doc may have been referring to is that sometimes higher doses (pharmalogical) have the "feel good" factor - ever taken a prednisone taper? love those things...but they aren't so good for your body. I think the real danger is just in long-term over-replacement. On an addison's forum you would hear of the dangers of feeling great all the time...as the quality of an 's patient is normally not a good one...and thus if you're taking enough to "feel good" All the time, you may be damaging your body by over-replacement. Remember 's folks take enough according to body/weight calculations for normal replacement...and then have to stress dose for other things. so...was it the amount that you were taking that was concerning to your doctor? Otherwise, I don't know that lower doses would have any "feel good" effect because you're actually lowering total adrenal reserve while on H/C. Did he say any more about it to you? And if he specialized in adrenal fatigue, what was his protocol for that? Cindisharflin <sharflin@...> wrote: "Safe Uses of Cortisol" doesn't seem to address one question - who are the people who Cortef doesn't work for? The reason I ask is that when I was on Cortef in the past, though the wrong dose, I walked into a new doctor's office (someone who specialized in adrenal fatigue) and he was dismayed that I was on it. So I said it made me feel better. And he said something like, "Of course it does. It's a type of steroid. It would make anyone feel better." Thinking ahead to being in a similar

situation again, I really don't know how to address that statement. Because in the book, it seemed like it made anyone with any problem feel better. But it is a steroid...so of course it would...right? I'm so confused I don't even know how to explain it...SharonIodine

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feeling good simply comes from being on the right dose (LOW). That is the point of taking it.

YOU ARE NOT LOWERING ADRENAL RESERVE WHILE ON H/C. you are supporting adrenals. lotsa myths out there.

Doc was certainly not an adrenal specialist--he was a poser.

gracia

hydrocortisone is a steroid hormone.

I think what your doc may have been referring to is that sometimes higher doses (pharmalogical) have the "feel good" factor - ever taken a prednisone taper? love those things...but they aren't so good for your body.

I think the real danger is just in long-term over-replacement. On an addison's forum you would hear of the dangers of feeling great all the time...as the quality of an 's patient is normally not a good one...and thus if you're taking enough to "feel good" All the time, you may be damaging your body by over-replacement. Remember 's folks take enough according to body/weight calculations for normal replacement...and then have to stress dose for other things.

so...was it the amount that you were taking that was concerning to your doctor?

Otherwise, I don't know that lower doses would have any "feel good" effect because you're actually lowering total adrenal reserve while on H/C. Did he say any more about it to you? And if he specialized in adrenal fatigue, what was his protocol for that?

Cindisharflin <sharflincomcast (DOT) net> wrote:

"Safe Uses of Cortisol" doesn't seem to address one question - who are the people who Cortef doesn't work for? The reason I ask is that when I was on Cortef in the past, though the wrong dose, I walked into a new doctor's office (someone who specialized in adrenal fatigue) and he was dismayed that I was on it. So I said it made me feel better. And he said something like, "Of course it does. It's a type of steroid. It would make anyone feel better." Thinking ahead to being in a similar situation again, I really don't know how to address that statement. Because in the book, it seemed like it made anyone with any problem feel better. But it is a steroid...so of course it would...right? I'm so confused I don't even know how to explain it...SharonIodine

[Guest guest]

>From: " sharflin " <sharflin@...>

> " Safe Uses of Cortisol " doesn't seem to address one question - who are

>the people who Cortef doesn't work for?

It's not needed by people who produce adequate levels of cortisol. However,

nothing bad happens to them as their adrenals simply cut back production a

little. As long as the HPA axis isn't suppressed, it's not a problem.

>

>The reason I ask is that when I was on Cortef in the past, though the

>wrong dose, I walked into a new doctor's office (someone who

>specialized in adrenal fatigue) and he was dismayed that I was on it.

Some adrenal fatigue specialists simply don't like HC. author

of " Adrenal Fatigue " says he only uses it as a last resort. It's because

that's what their treatment bias is.

>So I said it made me feel better. And he said something like, " Of

>course it does. It's a type of steroid. It would make anyone feel

>better. "

That's the same thing they say about thyroid medication. " The more you

take, the better you'll feel. " It's a lie. During the days of Dr. Derry's

trials, the doctors were saying only normal labs matter, it doesn't matter

that people feel better, or some think Dr. Derry gave them their lives back,

all that matters is the bloodwork, and Armour is like Speed. Anybody who

takes it will feel better.

Take too much thyroid hormone, you'll feel like you're dying.

I was on Dexedrine (speed, the legal kind) for a while. It did not make me

feel better. I must be missing something.

The hormones in natural levels generally make you feel NORMAL. They don't

generally give you false euphoria.

The ones who don't like HC, like to push diet and glandulars and Vitamins,

particularly B vitamins.

Thinking ahead to being in a similar situation again, I

>really don't know how to address that statement. Because in the book,

>it seemed like it made anyone with any problem feel better. But it is

>a steroid...so of course it would...right?

It doesn't make everyone feel better. That's not true. My wife has high

functioing adrenals. She tried hydrocortisone once, and did not like the

way she felt. Our thyroid doc gives HC to most hypo patients, because the

majority are low, so he keeps offering it to her (her cortisol level is high

but and others say that's what happens before they crash and is a

sign of fatigue, but hers stay high.) She took the offer once to see what

it would do, and she knew she didn't need it.

An " anabolic " steroid is what Barry Bonds takes. Here's the definition of

steroid that covers hydrocortisone -

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=corticosteroid

any of a class of steroids, as aldosterone, hydrocortisone, or cortisone,

occurring in nature, esp. as a product of the adrenal cortex, or

synthesized.

****************************************

It's simply the hormones produced by the adrenals from cholesterol. HC is a

glucocortoid and a corticosteroid.

An anabolic steroid mimicks testosterone, and is what sports calls steroids

-

http://tinyurl.com/nrz9q

a synthetic derivative of testosterone, sometimes used by athletes to help

increase weight and strength.

I'm sure the alternative doctors who think they can " heal " the adrenals in

some cases without HC, are right. It's just the approach will take a lot

longer, be more expensive, and may or may not be as effective. They're

scared away from it the same reason traditional doctors are, because in

HIGH doses it has a lot of bad side effects.

Skipper

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>From: Cindi <cindi22595@...>

> Otherwise, I don't know that lower doses would have any " feel good "

>effect because you're actually lowering total adrenal reserve while on H/C.

> Did he say any more about it to you? And if he specialized in adrenal

>fatigue, what was his protocol for that?

I can't locate my book right now, but Jeffries said that on HC, in an

emergency you would have a higher adrenal reserve, and I believe it.

Since most of us who need HC don't produce enough cortisol because our

adrenals are weak, how would taking supplemental HC lower the reserve?

After all, we're resting our adrenals a bit, or at least not straining them

so much. Our HPA axis isn't shut down, so it is very likely we'll have more

adrenal reserve available for emergencies as Jeffries claims.

Skipper

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Check Safe Uses Of Cortisol...but Jefferies says that "subjects receiving 20 mg. daily of cortisone acetate (his studies were not with hydrocortisone) have their endogenous adrenal steroid production decreased by approximately 60 percent, and subjects receiving 10 mg. daily ....by 30 percent". I suppose this depends on whether you see adding hormone as affecting the feedback loop....or as a supplementation. CindiGracia <circe@...> wrote: feeling good simply comes from being on

the right dose (LOW). That is the point of taking it. YOU ARE NOT LOWERING ADRENAL RESERVE WHILE ON H/C. you are supporting adrenals. lotsa myths out there. Doc was certainly not an adrenal specialist--he was a poser.

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If you were only taking 15 mg....a safe dose for adrenal fatigue, i'd say the doc was slightly misinformed. I agree there is a lot of controversy on treating adrenals. I think there are probably pros and cons either way (lifestyle vs. hormone supplementation). Of course some folks have such severe low functioning adrenals, they probably have no choice. Regarding the "adrenal reserve"....to me, it appears when we are taking any oral hormone...we will almost always affect the feedback loop regulating that hormone in the body....let me just quote someone who was discussing this with me one time because I do think it can get confusing: When you give support of 1/2 of total needs, then you are weakening the adrenals by over 60%. This is in Jeffries book and I really

don't think most people have enough of a scientific mind to see how this works. So, if you took 15mg a day, theoretically, you are weakening the adrenals by as much as 85 to 90%. What this means is that every time you have a minor stress requiring 5 to 10mg of extra cortisol, which is not problem at all for a healthy adrenal, the supported adrenal cannot do it. Then you end up feeling quite bad. You get a thing called "loss of adrenal reserve." So, you end up becoming very limited in the stress you can handle the higher the support you go to. This is what ends up making people think they need more and more and why some folks go on up to 30 mg. If you take enough extra so that you have too much swimming around, then you can handle the tiny stresses that come up. But the cost to your health of having most times with too much so you can handle the occasional stress is not worth it. Cindi sharflin <sharflin@...> wrote: I was taking 10mg AM, 5mg Noon, prescribed by the previous doc who was not that informed. > Otherwise, I don't know that lower doses would have any "feel good" effect because you're actually lowering total adrenal reserve while on H/C. Did he say any more about it to you? And if he specialized in adrenal fatigue, what was his protocol for that? It seems to me people who specialize in adrenal fatigue go one of two paths - compensate for the problem (Cortef) or try to fix the problem (support the adrenals into full functioning). This doctor was definitely the latter, and gave me glandulars, B vits, and lots more. I think it helped some (and he would say it definitely helped) but I'm not all the way healthy by a long shot and am rethinking

the value of this strategy. Wouldn't it be better to feel good instead of spending years struggling? I can always take the rebuilding stuff at the same time as the Cortef, then in the future see how my adrenals are by seeing if I can get off the Cortef. At least that is my current thinking. But no, I really don't know anymore about his negative ideas on Cortef. Maybe he didn't know how bad I felt as my saliva cortisol test wasn't that bad (think I was on glandulars before the test). He did have the book on his bookshelf - maybe he thinks it is appropriate sometimes. Can you say more about your comment, "you're actually lowering total adrenal reserve while on H/C" ? Thanks much,SharonIodine

[Guest guest]

>From: Cindi <cindi22595@...>

> When you give support of 1/2 of total needs, then you are weakening the

>adrenals by over 60%.

I don't think that is correct. If you have low functioning adrenals, they

are spending too much energy trying to keep up. It's like forcing yourself

to run when you're exhausted. Eventually you collapse because you're asking

too much of your body. The cortef simply rests the adrenals.

I don't have my book, so can't quote the page, but Jeffires said it the

treatment actually increases the adrenal reserve.

Skipper

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>From: Cindi <cindi22595@...>

>Check Safe Uses Of Cortisol...but Jefferies says that " subjects receiving

>20 mg. daily of cortisone acetate (his studies were not with

>hydrocortisone) have their endogenous adrenal steroid production decreased

>by approximately 60 percent, and subjects receiving 10 mg. daily ....by 30

>percent " .

Reducing production by 60% doesn't mean 60% weaker. With weak adrenals, you

can't keep up anyway yet your gland struggles to do so.

Not suppressing the HPA axis keeps the adrenals working, just at levels they

are more able to handle without strain.

>

> I suppose this depends on whether you see adding hormone as affecting

>the feedback loop....or as a supplementation.

Suppressing the feedback loop is a bad thing. Affecting the feedback loop

and putting less strain on the adrenals is not.

Skipper

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Agreed. do we know how much H/C it takes to affect this adrenal feedback loop? is there any research on that that anyone knows of? Cindi Skipper Beers <lsb149@...> wrote: Affecting the feedback loop and putting less strain on the adrenals is not.

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right. jefferies says Oral replacement equaled 35- 40 mg. current research had it a bit less than that...maybe 20-30 mg. Jefferies did his work in the 50s...and I guess they have just refigured it now to avoid over-replacement and side effects. there's a formula that can be used for addison's patients...with height/weight that can be used to figure their dose. cindi sharflin <sharflin@...> wrote: On pg 13 he says that the average daily production of cortisol by human adrenals under basal conditions is 15-20mg, but this dose will not maintain adrenalectomized patients. Studies indicate 35-40mg is needed. "The discrepancy between the 20mg average daily production by normal adrenals and the 35-40 mg necessary to suppress

normal adrenocortical activity implies that, when taken by mouth in tablet form, even in divided doses, cortisone acetate or cortisol is only approximately 60 percent as efficient as when the hormone is naturally produced by the adrenals and released directly into the blood in accordance with bodily needs." SharonIodine

[Guest guest]

>From: Cindi <cindi22595@...>

>one other question..you take Cortef? what's the opinion here on generic

>Hydrocortisone versus Cortef...

> i just saw someone recently say their body could tell the

>difference...and i'm wondering if this is like hypo folks with using Armour

>versus generic thyroid extract...ya can tell the difference.

I can tell the Armour difference. Can't tell the HC difference. That

doesn't mean it's the same for everyone. It could be my pharmacy has a good

brand of HC generic, because it may be not all generics brands are the same.

Skipper

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>From: Cindi <cindi22595@...>

> I agree that 20 mg. is probably safe ....although it's a bit more than

>1/2 of an addison's replacement dose...but like peatfield says...adrenal

>suppression is okay for a period of time.

>

> how long have you been taking the 20 mg?...and do you plan to wean off?

> cindi

When I first went on it, I took it with me wherever I went and took it

promptly 4 times a day, without water if necessary. I really, really needed

it.

Now, if I skip a dose, or even a couple days it's not a big deal as my

adrenals have recovered a bit. But, if I go more than a couple days I stop

feeling well.

It's not important for me to wean off, so why would I plan such a thing if I

thought it was helpful and not doing any damage?

The adrenals are affected by toxins, like mercury. There are also

antibodies against the adrenals,though doctors rarely test for them.

For whatever reason, I doubt my adrenals will even be able to function

completely on their own.

Skipper

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>From: " sharflin " <sharflin@...>

>Do you have any recommendations on how to find a Cortef friendly doctor?

>While I can go it on my own I prefer to have a sympathetic doc to order

>labs once in a while.

A broda doctor would.

Too find my last family doctor, I called and made sure he prescribed Armour

to some patients. The phone is a lot cheaper than visiting a doctors office

and finding out whether he will prescribe something or not.

Skipper

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I was just asking because some folks claim to "heal" the adrenals after being on it for a while...up to two years. I've heard others say that once you go on you can plan to be on it for life, and usually need 30. I do think some of the "healed" experiences may be more related to folks who have low functioning adrenals because they are hypo...and the adrenals recover as the hypo corrects....but they need the H/C to get the thyroid hormone in them (if that makes sense). But like you say your experience is....I agree that there are folks who need it all the time for low functioning adrenals, possibly with antibodies...so was just wondering what your take on totally "healing" the adrenals was....and going off H/C. Thx for sharing your thoughts on it. Cindi Skipper Beers <lsb149@...>

wrote: >From: Cindi It's not important for me to wean off, so why would I plan such a thing if I thought it was helpful and not doing any damage?The adrenals are affected by toxins, like mercury. There are also antibodies against the adrenals,though doctors rarely test for them.For whatever reason, I doubt my adrenals will even be able to function completely on their own.Skipper_________________________________________________________________Check the weather nationwide with MSN Search: Try it now! http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=weather & FORM=WLMTAGIodine

[Guest guest]

>From: Cindi <cindi22595@...>

>I was just asking because some folks claim to " heal " the adrenals after

>being on it for a while...up to two years. I've heard others say that once

>you go on you can plan to be on it for life, and usually need 30.

I rarely take more than 20. In fact, since I don't have the desperate need I

used to, it's more likely for me to take 10 or 20 mg per day. I intend to

take all 4 doses, but frequently don't.

So, I'd say that statement isn't true for everyone.

>

> I do think some of the " healed " experiences may be more related to folks

>who have low functioning adrenals because they are hypo...and the adrenals

>recover as the hypo corrects....but they need the H/C to get the thyroid

>hormone in them (if that makes sense).

As Langer said in " Solved the Riddle of Illness " giving thyroid medication

usually increases cortisol levels. That's why the support need is only

temporary at times. Thyroid treatment for those with low adrenals is much

easier when they start Cortef first. Even if the plan is only temporary.

>

> But like you say your experience is....I agree that there are folks who

>need it all the time for low functioning adrenals, possibly with

>antibodies...so was just wondering what your take on totally " healing " the

>adrenals was....and going off H/C. Thx for sharing your thoughts on it.

According to Mercola, only 10% of the population has cholesterol below 180.

Mine is around 110. Cholesterol is the building material for all the

steroid hormones - pregnenolone, progesterone, cortisol, tesosterone,

estrogen, Vitamin D, DHEA, and bile. If you don't have adequate cholesterol

you won't have adequate cortisol and other steroid hormones.

That evil substance cholesterol, you can't live without it!

I think there are two common reasons for low cortisol. One is low

cholesterol. The other is high cholesterol. The reason it's usually high

is because the person is hypothyroid, and don't have the energy it requires

to turn cholesterol into the steroid hormones.

Those with high cholesterol are a lot more likely to be able to cure the

adrenal problem with thyroid hormone, and the other treatments those who

claim to be adrenal experts but hate Cortef claim can work.

Skipper

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this is what some docs say about Armour too. "sure it makes you feel better, it's like taking speed". Then we say No I really FEEL better and they think Armour addict. Feeling good is not a goal in allopathic medicine.

gracia

"Safe Uses of Cortisol" doesn't seem to address one question - who are the people who Cortef doesn't work for? The reason I ask is that when I was on Cortef in the past, though the wrong dose, I walked into a new doctor's office (someone who specialized in adrenal fatigue) and he was dismayed that I was on it. So I said it made me feel better. And he said something like, "Of course it does. It's a type of steroid. It would make anyone feel better." Thinking ahead to being in a similar situation again, I really don't know how to address that statement. Because in the book, it seemed like it made anyone with any problem feel better. But it is a steroid...so of course it would...right? I'm so confused I don't even know how to explain it...Sharon

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[Guest guest]

Skipper IMO this is exactly right. and I appreciate your sarcasm maybe not here but in other posts. Only thing I am dubious about is the wife's high functioning adrenals. Makes me think of myself--I needed truckloads of hormones along with cortef.

Gracia

>From: "sharflin" <sharflincomcast (DOT) net>>"Safe Uses of Cortisol" doesn't seem to address one question - who are>the people who Cortef doesn't work for?It's not needed by people who produce adequate levels of cortisol. However, nothing bad happens to them as their adrenals simply cut back production a little. As long as the HPA axis isn't suppressed, it's not a problem.>>The reason I ask is that when I was on Cortef in the past, though the>wrong dose, I walked into a new doctor's office (someone who>specialized in adrenal fatigue) and he was dismayed that I was on it.Some adrenal fatigue specialists simply don't like HC. author of "Adrenal Fatigue" says he only uses it as a last resort. It's because that's what their treatment bias is.>So I said it made me feel better. And he said something like, "Of>course it does. It's a type of steroid. It would make anyone feel>better."That's the same thing they say about thyroid medication. "The more you take, the better you'll feel." It's a lie. During the days of Dr. Derry's trials, the doctors were saying only normal labs matter, it doesn't matter that people feel better, or some think Dr. Derry gave them their lives back, all that matters is the bloodwork, and Armour is like Speed. Anybody who takes it will feel better.Take too much thyroid hormone, you'll feel like you're dying.I was on Dexedrine (speed, the legal kind) for a while. It did not make me feel better. I must be missing something.The hormones in natural levels generally make you feel NORMAL. They don't generally give you false euphoria.The ones who don't like HC, like to push diet and glandulars and Vitamins, particularly B vitamins.Thinking ahead to being in a similar situation again, I>really don't know how to address that statement. Because in the book,>it seemed like it made anyone with any problem feel better. But it is>a steroid...so of course it would...right?It doesn't make everyone feel better. That's not true. My wife has high functioing adrenals. She tried hydrocortisone once, and did not like the way she felt. Our thyroid doc gives HC to most hypo patients, because the majority are low, so he keeps offering it to her (her cortisol level is high but and others say that's what happens before they crash and is a sign of fatigue, but hers stay high.) She took the offer once to see what it would do, and she knew she didn't need it.An "anabolic" steroid is what Barry Bonds takes. Here's the definition of steroid that covers hydrocortisone -http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=corticosteroidany of a class of steroids, as aldosterone, hydrocortisone, or cortisone, occurring in nature, esp. as a product of the adrenal cortex, or synthesized.****************************************It's simply the hormones produced by the adrenals from cholesterol. HC is a glucocortoid and a corticosteroid.An anabolic steroid mimicks testosterone, and is what sports calls steroids -http://tinyurl.com/nrz9qa synthetic derivative of testosterone, sometimes used by athletes to help increase weight and strength.I'm sure the alternative doctors who think they can "heal" the adrenals in some cases without HC, are right. It's just the approach will take a lot longer, be more expensive, and may or may not be as effective. They're scared away from it the same reason traditional doctors are, because in HIGH doses it has a lot of bad side effects.Skipper__________________________________________________________All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial! http://www.windowsonecare.com/trial.aspx?sc_cid=msn_hotmail

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I think Jefferies work is exactly right. We can tell when we need more cortisol.

Gracia

right. jefferies says Oral replacement equaled 35- 40 mg.

current research had it a bit less than that...maybe 20-30 mg.

Jefferies did his work in the 50s...and I guess they have just refigured it now to avoid over-replacement and side effects.

there's a formula that can be used for addison's patients...with height/weight that can be used to figure their dose.

cindi

..

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I only encountered the varied and sometimes very erroneous opinions on NTH!

meanwhile I think for the first time in years I may able to reduce cortef, b/c of iodine. Experimenting today.

Gracia

I appreciate your knowledge on the subject. i've been studying this now for about 6 months and have found so many varied opinions on "adrenal fatigue" that it is mind boggling.

I hadn't heard these statements about cholesterol before...and this sure makes sense.

cindi

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>From: " Gracia " <circe@...>

> Skipper IMO this is exactly right. and I appreciate your sarcasm

>maybe not here but in other posts. Only thing I am dubious about is the

>wife's high functioning adrenals. Makes me think of myself--I needed

>truckloads of hormones along with cortef.

First she had high BP and pulse rate over 100.

Then we found a doctor who treated based on symptoms.

She increased Armour gradually up to 18 grains during which time her pulse

and BP fell.

Now she's on 202.5 mcg of timed release T3 every 12 hours.

Is that a large enough boatload of hormones?

Oh, as for the other hormones she was on bio-identical progesterone and

estrogen for a couple years when she started thyroid meds, and it made a

huge difference, but she doesn't need those any more. Usually from low

thyroid.

As for the adrenals, her AM cortisol is always high (except for a short time

when she was on vallium for a back injury, that really lowered it.)

There are really some people who don't have low adrenals, and just because

they're high doesn't mean they'll crash.

Skipper

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OK I give.

I also had high bp (as in explode--250/150 was the worst I think). pulse rate that of a hummingbird. I was gasping for breath, well I was almost dead. I needed really high doses of estradiol, progesterone, testosterone, 7-keto DHEA, cortef to finally be able to take enough Armour. I think now that most women are given too low doses of sex hormones b/c they are perceived as unnecessary or dangerous. Then they end up going off of them.

But anyway I give

Gracia

>From: "Gracia" <circe@...>> Skipper IMO this is exactly right. and I appreciate your sarcasm >maybe not here but in other posts. Only thing I am dubious about is the >wife's high functioning adrenals. Makes me think of myself--I needed >truckloads of hormones along with cortef.First she had high BP and pulse rate over 100.Then we found a doctor who treated based on symptoms.She increased Armour gradually up to 18 grains during which time her pulse and BP fell.Now she's on 202.5 mcg of timed release T3 every 12 hours.Is that a large enough boatload of hormones?Oh, as for the other hormones she was on bio-identical progesterone and estrogen for a couple years when she started thyroid meds, and it made a huge difference, but she doesn't need those any more. Usually from low thyroid.As for the adrenals, her AM cortisol is always high (except for a short time when she was on vallium for a back injury, that really lowered it.)There are really some people who don't have low adrenals, and just because they're high doesn't mean they'll crash.Skipper__________________________________________________________Check the weather nationwide with MSN Search: Try it now! http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=weather & FORM=WLMTAG

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[Guest guest]

Joined here to learn more about iodine. My main question would be what is the benefit to someone on full thyroid hormone replacement...other than other beneficial things to the body - and would taking it interfere with the thyroid hormone I am taking? I hate to start messing with my dose after being on the same one for so long...but, I could. I was a high cortisol gal when starting Armour...and was very stable on 4 1/2 grains of Armour until after taking a quinolone antibiotic. I thinnk treating the hypo fixed the high cortisol for me. But it's possible that drug could have temporarily disrupted adrenal function like it did thyroid meds...so I'm not adverse to adrenal meds...just would want to avoid the cushing's side effects of over-replacement...as I've been there, done that...with the high cortisol for years. Too low or too high, imo, is not pleasant. I do definitely believe I need DHEA...I did test low when diagnosed hypo...but all OTC products seem to be 25 mg. and i'm seeing some places that is too much. What's your advice on DHEA dosing? Cindi Gracia <circe@...> wrote: Cindi---you are not taking cortef, DHEA or iodine? __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

>From: Cindi <cindi22595@...>

> I was a high cortisol gal when starting Armour...and was very stable on

>4 1/2 grains of Armour until after taking a quinolone antibiotic.

Why do you think you had high cortisol, were you actually tested for it?

If you have high or normal cortisol, why are you so interested in Jeffries?

> I do definitely believe I need DHEA...I did test low when diagnosed

>hypo...but all OTC products seem to be 25 mg. and i'm seeing some places

>that is too much.

You can order 5 mg DHEA at http://tinyurl.com/7wgrk this is the site of the

author of " From Fatigued to Fantastic " (Home page is endfatigue.com.)

I think females should be careful of DHEA dosing, as a lot of it can turn

into testosterone. So, 5 mg is a good idea. Some females do need more

testosterone, not all of them. In males, it can also turn into estrogen.

Many people with low DHEA also have low cortisol.

In some cases, DHEA does actually lower excessive cortisol levels.

Skipper

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[Guest guest]

IMO this is just terrible confusion and fear and misinformation. No use making our lives harder than they are. Nothing horrible has happened to me on cortef, on the contrary my quality of life has improved. The quote from "someone" was most likely Tish from NTH.

accchhhh

Gracia

If you were only taking 15 mg....a safe dose for adrenal fatigue, i'd say the doc was slightly misinformed.

I agree there is a lot of controversy on treating adrenals. I think there are probably pros and cons either way (lifestyle vs. hormone supplementation). Of course some folks have such severe low functioning adrenals, they probably have no choice.

Regarding the "adrenal reserve"....to me, it appears when we are taking any oral hormone...we will almost always affect the feedback loop regulating that hormone in the body....let me just quote someone who was discussing this with me one time because I do think it can get confusing:

When you give support of 1/2 of total needs, then you are weakening the adrenals by over 60%. This is in Jeffries book and I really don't think most people have enough of a scientific mind to see how this works. So, if you took 15mg a day, theoretically, you are weakening the adrenals by as much as 85 to 90%. What this means is that every time you have a minor stress requiring 5 to 10mg of extra cortisol, which is not problem at all for a healthy adrenal, the supported adrenal cannot do it. Then you end up feeling quite bad. You get a thing called "loss of adrenal reserve." So, you end up becoming very limited in the stress you can handle the higher the support you go to. This is what ends up making people think they need more and more and why some folks go on up to 30 mg. If you take enough extra so that you have too much swimming around, then you can handle the tiny stresses that come up. But the cost to your health of having most times with too much so you can handle the occasional stress is not worth it.

Cindi

sharflin <sharflincomcast (DOT) net> wrote:

I was taking 10mg AM, 5mg Noon, prescribed by the previous doc who was not that informed. > Otherwise, I don't know that lower doses would have any "feel good" effect because you're actually lowering total adrenal reserve while on H/C. Did he say any more about it to you? And if he specialized in adrenal fatigue, what was his protocol for that? It seems to me people who specialize in adrenal fatigue go one of two paths - compensate for the problem (Cortef) or try to fix the problem (support the adrenals into full functioning). This doctor was definitely the latter, and gave me glandulars, B vits, and lots more. I think it helped some (and he would say it definitely helped) but I'm not all the way healthy by a long shot and am rethinking the value of this strategy. Wouldn't it be better to feel good instead of spending years struggling? I can always take the rebuilding stuff at the same time as the Cortef, then in the future see how my adrenals are by seeing if I can get off the Cortef. At least that is my current thinking. But no, I really don't know anymore about his negative ideas on Cortef. Maybe he didn't know how bad I felt as my saliva cortisol test wasn't that bad (think I was on glandulars before the test). He did have the book on his bookshelf - maybe he thinks it is appropriate sometimes. Can you say more about your comment, "you're actually lowering total adrenal reserve while on H/C" ? Thanks much,SharonIodine

[Guest guest]

not sure why he says this. cortisone acetate is different from cortef, and the dosing is different. 20mg cortef=36mg cortisone acetate if I recall.

Gracia

Check Safe Uses Of Cortisol...but Jefferies says that "subjects receiving 20 mg. daily of cortisone acetate (his studies were not with hydrocortisone) have their endogenous adrenal steroid production decreased by approximately 60 percent, and subjects receiving 10 mg. daily ....by 30 percent".

I suppose this depends on whether you see adding hormone as affecting the feedback loop....or as a supplementation.

CindiGracia <circe@...> wrote:

feeling good simply comes from being on the right dose (LOW). That is the point of taking it.

YOU ARE NOT LOWERING ADRENAL RESERVE WHILE ON H/C. you are supporting adrenals. lotsa myths out there.

Doc was certainly not an adrenal specialist--he was a poser.

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