Re: Results of my visit with Flechas today

[Guest guest]

Thanks so much Lynn for taking the time to do this.

Gracia

I'm back from my visit with Flechas and he was very generous about answering all the questions I collected from here as well as my own. I taped all then on the way home discovered the & *%* recorder wasn't working. So it's memory here but I think I got the important gist of everyone's questions.(

..

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[Guest guest]

Thanks so much for this information, Lynn. I was particularly interested in the comment that Lugol's can give some acidity problems. I am experiencing that. Apparently iodine is alkalizining in itself but my stomach is reacting with acid. I have ordered Iodoral now.   AnnOn 29-Nov-06, at 8:32 PM, Lynn wrote:I'm back from my visit with Flechas and he was very generous about answering all the questions I collected from here as well as my own. I taped all then on the way home discovered the & *%* recorder wasn't working. So it's memory here but I think I got the important gist of everyone's questions.(And as for me I have a goiter !!!!!!!!! He said I should expect it to take 2-3 years to shrink it down. And it may possibly be related to the high sat fat weston price diet.  No way of knowing since I'm also 52 and that's an age goiters often show up at.  But he's very impressed that at age 52 I'm still cycling normally and my fibro-breasts have cleared so something is going right.So here we go with the questions.....LynnQuestionsDo you have a good explanation for the doctor's who worry when the TSH goes up on higher iodine supplementation? Some breast cancer women have had their Iodoral lowered because of increasing TSH. He gave me a report of a Danish study: TSH Stimulation before Radioiodine Enhances Goiter Shrinkage by Bell. Basically they give TSH to patients to facilitate iodine absorption into the thyroid. So the iodine hungry thyroid is secreting more TSH to help uptake. (I will try to scan this short report in for us) Some people have severe bromide reactions that scare them off continuing on Iodoral especially rashes.  How can they deal better with this? A new study from Duke (I think it's there?) showed that 80% of the bromide is excreted in the first 2 weeks of iodine supplementation so detox reaction should lessen tremendously after this. Also increasing salt, water, Vit C, selenium should help. Otherwise you have to wait it out. One person reported having floaters in her eyes after a few days on 4-6 drops of lugols. Any explanation? Flechas had not heard of that before but did know an optomologist who said he thinks the iodine works on the eye cells and reduces pressure in the eye. It's possible that the floaters are results of eye debris clearing out. (I can't recall the rest but my general remembrance was that he thinks iodine will be shown to normalize glaucoma and other eye problems.) Is there currently a test for toxins in conjunction with the loading test? Brownstein reports breast cancer women as showing higher toxic loads than non-breast cancer women. Can this be tested so iodine will show a decrease in toxic loads? There will be shortly a bromide and fluoride loading test. He's not sure exactly when that will be available as they are still finalizing the test.  There is also a heavy metals test that can be sent for when the loading test is done. He doesn't recommend it as it adds to the cost but for someone very nervous about cancer it might be worthwhile.He didn't say more on this and I didn't ask. Do you see any changes in the legality of Iodoral…..i.e. any danger that it could be restricted or by prescription only? Not any in the foreseeable future…..in two years when Codex comes back up then we may see restrictions similar to what Europe has and iodine most likely will be on that list. How does Iodoral absorb differently than lugols. Will a loading test reflect any difference depending on which you use? No difference except that Iodoral is designed to make it through the stomach intact. This is because at least 20% of people using Lugols report stomach problems…either acidity or nausea. No has reported any of this with Iodoral that he knows of. What's the relation of iodine and high fat diets? Do those of us on traditional higher saturated fat diets need more iodine? Absolutely yes….he said he thinks the relationship between fat, meats and breast cancer is basically an iodine problem. He went on to tell me about one of his patients that was diabetic. His doctor put him on  a few fish oil tabs a day as he heard that helped with diabetes and an iodine related problem returned (I can't recall what it was it was on the tape that went bad….but once they increased his Iodoral it went away. Sorry don't know what the increase dose was but he did say iodine if beneficial to diabetes) Could you say more on the relationship between thyroid meds and breast cancer? Should we ideally only be taking iodine instead of thyroid? Does it apply to all ages and sexes? Flechas said that he thinks that this is due to the cyclical nature of our endogenously produced hormones so they are pulsing and between pulses the breast is allowed to regain iodine. When we take thyroid the reloading between pulses isn't available to the breast cells. A 1979 study showed a 12% increase in breast cancer with women on thyroid medication. After 15 years it increased to 20%.This applies to all types of thyroid including compounded bio-identical, armour, and synthroid. Why does stopping iodine result in symptoms like burning mouth, pain in the thyroid area and swollen glands? When iodine is re-introduced these symptoms go away. He said he not ever heard of this before. But these sound more like the symptoms patients report early on in iodine usage. He couldn't add more to this. How does one determine if they have a defective NIS (sodium-iodide supporter)?Some people iodine load test at 80-100% the first time. He immediately suspects that they are automatically secreting all the iodine as the cells are unable to take any in.He starts adding Vit C and salt and usually gets a very low loading test the second time around.The other indicator is an iodine loading test that refuses to every budge upwards.He load tests every 3 months in these cases continuing to add Vit C. until he starts to see an upward trend. Constipation issue even with high Mg and Vit C….so that it's either constipation or diarrhea. He really doesn't hear that complaint much and couldn't give me more help other than to say work on types of magnesium. He doesn't think it has anything to do with bromide in the colon cells. Some people experience hair loss on higher iodine doses. It's appears to really shut down estrogen or something. I'm having that problem and don't know if it's iodine related or something else. Flechas asked if I was growing new hair also and I said maybe I really couldn't tell a big difference in the volume of my hair but loads were in the drain every time I wash it.  He said he's had a number of men with hair loss that show lots of new growth on iodine. He thinks I may be experiences hormone fluctuations similar to post-pregnancy and the hair loss will stop. But I will continue to show lots of new growth. I also asked about the acne I get every time I stop Iodoral even for a short period. Was that bromide continuing to come out? He doesn't think it's bromide but rather the skin cells and sweat glands re-orienting to higher iodine levels and a die off of bacteria. These cells turn over fast so even a few days off iodine can affect the bacterial balance. I mentioned that it appeared I needed little deodorant on iodine and he said he hears this often. Selenium – are we overcautious with it like iodine? Especially if we aren't taking it in a salt form but rather a more bio-available form like high selenium yeast? He didn't know as there aren't many studies. He did say that in areas where selenium is low when they add it the cancer rates drop. They add it in around 200mcg so he's assuming they may be conservative. He couldn't say more What exactly is cogi-max (the silica supplement for nerves and brain) Does the mineral complex on the bottle mean high silica clay? Flechas said it's a silicon complex from opal. That form seems the most available to the body…then he gave me a paper by Abrahams on it.             

[Guest guest]

Lynn,

Thanks much for doing this. This was so informative and very thoughtful of you to take the time to do.

in Boston

Results of my visit with Flechas today

I'm back from my visit with Flechas and he was very generous about answering all the questions I collected from here as well as my own. I taped all then on the way home discovered the & *%* recorder wasn't working. So it's memory here but I think I got the important gist of everyone's questions.(And as for me I have a goiter !!!!!!!!! He said I should expect it to take 2-3 years to shrink it down. And it may possibly be related to the high sat fat weston price diet. No way of knowing since I'm also 52 and that's an age goiters often show up at. But he's very impressed that at age 52 I'm still cycling normally and my fibro-breasts have cleared so something is going right.So here we go with the questions.....Lynn

Questions

Do you have a good explanation for the doctor's who worry when the TSH goes up on higher iodine supplementation? Some breast cancer women have had their Iodoral lowered because of increasing TSH.

He gave me a report of a Danish study: TSH Stimulation before Radioiodine Enhances Goiter Shrinkage by Bell. Basically they give TSH to patients to facilitate iodine absorption into the thyroid. So the iodine hungry thyroid is secreting more TSH to help uptake. (I will try to scan this short report in for us)

Some people have severe bromide reactions that scare them off continuing on Iodoral especially rashes. How can they deal better with this?

A new study from Duke (I think it's there?) showed that 80% of the bromide is excreted in the first 2 weeks of iodine supplementation so detox reaction should lessen tremendously after this. Also increasing salt, water, Vit C, selenium should help. Otherwise you have to wait it out.

One person reported having floaters in her eyes after a few days on 4-6 drops of lugols. Any explanation?

Flechas had not heard of that before but did know an optomologist who said he thinks the iodine works on the eye cells and reduces pressure in the eye. It's possible that the floaters are results of eye debris clearing out. (I can't recall the rest but my general remembrance was that he thinks iodine will be shown to normalize glaucoma and other eye problems.)

Is there currently a test for toxins in conjunction with the loading test? Brownstein reports breast cancer women as showing higher toxic loads than non-breast cancer women. Can this be tested so iodine will show a decrease in toxic loads?

There will be shortly a bromide and fluoride loading test. He's not sure exactly when that will be available as they are still finalizing the test. There is also a heavy metals test that can be sent for when the loading test is done. He doesn't recommend it as it adds to the cost but for someone very nervous about cancer it might be worthwhile.

He didn't say more on this and I didn't ask.

Do you see any changes in the legality of Iodoral…..i.e. any danger that it could be restricted or by prescription only?

Not any in the foreseeable future…..in two years when Codex comes back up then we may see restrictions similar to what Europe has and iodine most likely will be on that list.

How does Iodoral absorb differently than lugols. Will a loading test reflect any difference depending on which you use?

No difference except that Iodoral is designed to make it through the stomach intact. This is because at least 20% of people using Lugols report stomach problems…either acidity or nausea. No has reported any of this with Iodoral that he knows of.

What's the relation of iodine and high fat diets? Do those of us on traditional higher saturated fat diets need more iodine?

Absolutely yes….he said he thinks the relationship between fat, meats and breast cancer is basically an iodine problem. He went on to tell me about one of his patients that was diabetic. His doctor put him on a few fish oil tabs a day as he heard that helped with diabetes and an iodine related problem returned (I can't recall what it was it was on the tape that went bad….but once they increased his Iodoral it went away. Sorry don't know what the increase dose was but he did say iodine if beneficial to diabetes)

Could you say more on the relationship between thyroid meds and breast cancer? Should we ideally only be taking iodine instead of thyroid? Does it apply to all ages and sexes?

Flechas said that he thinks that this is due to the cyclical nature of our endogenously produced hormones so they are pulsing and between pulses the breast is allowed to regain iodine. When we take thyroid the reloading between pulses isn't available to the breast cells. A 1979 study showed a 12% increase in breast cancer with women on thyroid medication. After 15 years it increased to 20%.

This applies to all types of thyroid including compounded bio-identical, armour, and synthroid.

Why does stopping iodine result in symptoms like burning mouth, pain in the thyroid area and swollen glands? When iodine is re-introduced these symptoms go away.

He said he not ever heard of this before. But these sound more like the symptoms patients report early on in iodine usage. He couldn't add more to this.

How does one determine if they have a defective NIS (sodium-iodide supporter)?

Some people iodine load test at 80-100% the first time. He immediately suspects that they are automatically secreting all the iodine as the cells are unable to take any in.

He starts adding Vit C and salt and usually gets a very low loading test the second time around.

The other indicator is an iodine loading test that refuses to every budge upwards.

He load tests every 3 months in these cases continuing to add Vit C. until he starts to see an upward trend.

Constipation issue even with high Mg and Vit C….so that it's either constipation or diarrhea.

He really doesn't hear that complaint much and couldn't give me more help other than to say work on types of magnesium. He doesn't think it has anything to do with bromide in the colon cells.

Some people experience hair loss on higher iodine doses. It's appears to really shut down estrogen or something. I'm having that problem and don't know if it's iodine related or something else.

Flechas asked if I was growing new hair also and I said maybe I really couldn't tell a big difference in the volume of my hair but loads were in the drain every time I wash it. He said he's had a number of men with hair loss that show lots of new growth on iodine. He thinks I may be experiences hormone fluctuations similar to post-pregnancy and the hair loss will stop. But I will continue to show lots of new growth.

I also asked about the acne I get every time I stop Iodoral even for a short period. Was that bromide continuing to come out? He doesn't think it's bromide but rather the skin cells and sweat glands re-orienting to higher iodine levels and a die off of bacteria. These cells turn over fast so even a few days off iodine can affect the bacterial balance. I mentioned that it appeared I needed little deodorant on iodine and he said he hears this often.

Selenium – are we overcautious with it like iodine? Especially if we aren't taking it in a salt form but rather a more bio-available form like high selenium yeast?

He didn't know as there aren't many studies. He did say that in areas where selenium is low when they add it the cancer rates drop. They add it in around 200mcg so he's assuming they may be conservative. He couldn't say more

What exactly is cogi-max (the silica supplement for nerves and brain) Does the mineral complex on the bottle mean high silica clay?

Flechas said it's a silicon complex from opal. That form seems the most available to the body…then he gave me a paper by Abrahams on it.

[Guest guest]

Lynn, thanks for writing up Flechas' answers to questions.

I am puzzled by the answer to question 1. TSH is secreted by the pituitary, not the thyroid. So how can the iodine hungry thyroid secrete more TSH? Also, do they really give TSH to patients when they give radioiodine? I've never heard of TSH being given as an exogeneous substance. Perhaps your memory of his response on this question wasn't 100% correct. I look forward to seeing the short report.

Regarding question 8, the relationship between thyroid meds and breast cancer. I believe synthroid could have a markedly different effect on the body than dessicated thyroid, so I'd be curious to know if the researchers looked at each group separately or lumped everyone together. Does anyone know more about this 1979 research? As someone who doesn't have a thyroid due to congenital misdevelopment and therefore must be on thyroid replacement (and I've been on it for 57 years), this issue concerns me. I wonder if the thyroid meds - breast cancer relationship is overly simplistic.

Lynn M.

Do you have a good explanation for the doctor's who worry when the TSH goes up on higher iodine supplementation? Some breast cancer women have had their Iodoral lowered because of increasing TSH.

He gave me a report of a Danish study: TSH Stimulation before Radioiodine Enhances Goiter Shrinkage by Bell. Basically they give TSH to patients to facilitate iodine absorption into the thyroid. So the iodine hungry thyroid is secreting more TSH to help uptake. (I will try to scan this short report in for us).

Could you say more on the relationship between thyroid meds and breast cancer? Should we ideally only be taking iodine instead of thyroid? Does it apply to all ages and sexes?

Flechas said that he thinks that this is due to the cyclical nature of our endogenously produced hormones so they are pulsing and between pulses the breast is allowed to regain iodine. When we take thyroid the reloading between pulses isn't available to the breast cells. A 1979 study showed a 12% increase in breast cancer with women on thyroid medication. After 15 years it increased to 20%.

This applies to all types of thyroid including compounded bio-identical, armour, and synthroid.__ ._,___

[Guest guest]

> I am puzzled by the answer to question 1. TSH is secreted by the pituitary, not the thyroid. So how can the iodine hungry thyroid secrete more TSH? Also, do they really give TSH to patients when they give radioiodine? I've never heard of TSH being given as an exogeneous substance. Perhaps your memory of his response on this question wasn't 100% correct. I look forward to seeing the short report.-------> I think it was actually me that said something along the lines of "so a iodine hungry thyroid is giving off more TSH to get more iodine in" and he agreed. I'm sure he knows it's actually the pituatary but was trying to keep things simplfied.I don't have the report at work right now but will either copy it to here or figure out how to scan it soon.> > Regarding question 8, the relationship between thyroid meds and breast cancer. I believe synthroid could have a markedly different effect on the body than dessicated thyroid, so I'd be curious to know if the researchers looked at each group separately or lumped everyone together. Does anyone know more about this 1979 research? As someone who doesn't have a thyroid due to congenital misdevelopment and therefore must be on thyroid replacement (and I've been on it for 57 years), this issue concerns me. I wonder if the thyroid meds - breast cancer relationship is overly simplistic. -----> I don't know more about the study. There's a couple other people on this list that might...also named Lynne!I think it's one we need to look at though as it is concerning. I don't believe Flechas knows exactly why. I asked his nurse about it and she said she thinks the link isn't there with bio-identical thyroid from a compounding pharm. (I've never heard of this). When Flechas came in and I brought up bio-identical not causing a problem he said that's not right. That he thinks it has more to do with a pulsing of the thyroid hormone that allows iodine to move into the breast tissue between pulses. You lose this rhythm with static dosing.I would think painting iodine directly on the breasts daily would be an excellent thing in this case but I don't know.I asked if he would be willing to do an interveiw for breastcancerchoices.org and he said yes. More on this issue will absolutely be one of the questions. He suggested we send him the questions so he can think about the answers. He's been very generous with photocopying studies for me so I hope he can reference more with this.I wish I had more information on this for you. You are not alone in wanting a better understanding of this point!Lynn

[Guest guest]

>From: " Lynn McGaha " <lmcgaha@...>

>Reply-iodine

><iodine >

>Subject: Re: Results of my visit with Flechas today

>Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 12:04:04 -0700

>

>Lynn, thanks for writing up Flechas' answers to questions.

>

>I am puzzled by the answer to question 1. TSH is secreted by the

>pituitary, not the thyroid. So how can the iodine hungry thyroid secrete

>more TSH? Also, do they really give TSH to patients when they give

>radioiodine? I've never heard of TSH being given as an exogeneous

>substance. Perhaps your memory of his response on this question wasn't

>100% correct. I look forward to seeing the short report.

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN & cpsidt=16601695

Recombinant human thyrotropin (rhTSH) has been demonstrated to increase the

uptake of RAI and also to promote a more even distribution of radionuclide

among the various nodules.

********

When deficient in iodine, less TSH will be secreted, but the thyroid will be

far more sensitive to it. With increased iodine, TSH will go up.

So, I would say it's likely in some cases when TSH is low, it's because

iodine is, not because the patient is fine.

The concept is from thyroidmanager.org, where they talk about how TSH is not

elevated in areas of endemic goiter, but the low iodine causes low TSH, but

the thyroid is far more sensitive to the TSH it receives.

Skipper

_________________________________________________________________

Stay up-to-date with your friends through the Windows Live Spaces friends

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[Guest guest]

Okay Zoe and everybody- here I am again. I guess I'll try it again

and keep trying to stay off of toes.

The type of scan Flecha spoke of is called a Thyrogen Uptake Scan. It

is usually reserved for cancer patients or those who have had RAI

ablation or Total Thyroidectomy. The theory is to starve the thyroid

from lack of iodine for about 2 weeks, then give it a shot of

synthetic TSH called Thyrogen and then give the radioactive marker.

The proper way of scanning is a total body scan, not just the throat

scan of a regular uptake scan to find metastatic cells or misplaced

thyroid tissue (which is common. Ask me if you need to know why). Do

a search on Thyrogen Uptake Scan or you can go to the Thyca site and

there is good info on it. A normal uptake scan does not use TSH as

the purpose is not to find hidden bits of active thyroid, but to

identify how active the gland or nodule is at taking in the iodine and

turning it into thyroid hormone.

Hope this helps.

E (Ellen in Missouri)

>

> Lynn, thanks for writing up Flechas' answers to questions.

>

> I am puzzled by the answer to question 1. TSH is secreted by the

pituitary, not the thyroid. So how can the iodine hungry thyroid

secrete more TSH? Also, do they really give TSH to patients when they

give radioiodine? I've never heard of TSH being given as an

exogeneous substance. Perhaps your memory of his response on this

question wasn't 100% correct. I look forward to seeing the short report.

>

> Regarding question 8, the relationship between thyroid meds and

breast cancer. I believe synthroid could have a markedly different

effect on the body than dessicated thyroid, so I'd be curious to know

if the researchers looked at each group separately or lumped everyone

together. Does anyone know more about this 1979 research? As someone

who doesn't have a thyroid due to congenital misdevelopment and

therefore must be on thyroid replacement (and I've been on it for 57

years), this issue concerns me. I wonder if the thyroid meds - breast

cancer relationship is overly simplistic.

>

> Lynn M.

>

> 1.. Do you have a good explanation for the doctor's who worry

when the TSH goes up on higher iodine supplementation? Some breast

cancer women have had their Iodoral lowered because of increasing TSH.

> He gave me a report of a Danish study: TSH Stimulation before

Radioiodine Enhances Goiter Shrinkage by Bell. Basically they

give TSH to patients to facilitate iodine absorption into the thyroid.

So the iodine hungry thyroid is secreting more TSH to help uptake. (I

will try to scan this short report in for us).

>

> 8.. Could you say more on the relationship between thyroid meds

and breast cancer? Should we ideally only be taking iodine instead of

thyroid? Does it apply to all ages and sexes?

> Flechas said that he thinks that this is due to the cyclical

nature of our endogenously produced hormones so they are pulsing and

between pulses the breast is allowed to regain iodine. When we take

thyroid the reloading between pulses isn't available to the breast

cells. A 1979 study showed a 12% increase in breast cancer with women

on thyroid medication. After 15 years it increased to 20%.

>

> This applies to all types of thyroid including compounded

bio-identical, armour, and synthroid.__ ._,___

>

[Guest guest]

Ellen,

Thanks for your response. Lynn said Flechas mentioned giving TSH when they

give radioiodine. Since the report she referred to was " TSH Stimulation

before

Radioiodine Enhances Goiter Shrinkage " , I was assuming this was the type of

RAI which ablates the thyroid. I think the radioactive marker used in the

Thyrogen Uptake Scan must either be a much lower dosage or a different

composition. But I can see how giving TSH would enhance the action of even

the ablative RAI. I didn't know it was done, but I'm not very knowledgable

about RAI.

Lynn

> The type of scan Flecha spoke of is called a Thyrogen Uptake Scan. It

> is usually reserved for cancer patients or those who have had RAI

> ablation or Total Thyroidectomy. The theory is to starve the thyroid

> from lack of iodine for about 2 weeks, then give it a shot of

> synthetic TSH called Thyrogen and then give the radioactive marker.

> The proper way of scanning is a total body scan, not just the throat

> scan of a regular uptake scan to find metastatic cells or misplaced

> thyroid tissue (which is common. Ask me if you need to know why). Do

> a search on Thyrogen Uptake Scan or you can go to the Thyca site and

> there is good info on it. A normal uptake scan does not use TSH as

> the purpose is not to find hidden bits of active thyroid, but to

> identify how active the gland or nodule is at taking in the iodine and

> turning it into thyroid hormone.

>

> Hope this helps.

>

> E (Ellen in Missouri)

> > Also, do they really give TSH to patients when they

> give radioiodine? I've never heard of TSH being given as an

> exogeneous substance. Perhaps your memory of his response on this

> question wasn't 100% correct. I look forward to seeing the short report.

> > Lynn M.

> He gave me a report of a Danish study: TSH Stimulation before

> Radioiodine Enhances Goiter Shrinkage by Bell. Basically they

> give TSH to patients to facilitate iodine absorption into the thyroid.

> So the iodine hungry thyroid is secreting more TSH to help uptake. (I

> will try to scan this short report in for us).

> Lynn

[Guest guest]

They are starting to give Thyrogen for ablation now too. It is controversial and most Dr's are not on board with it yet. The stats for effectiveness are not in. I believe it is used more for ablation in the case of Graves and not so much for thyroid cancer as the total ablation is too important. I have gone off meds all 3 times.

Re: Re: Results of my visit with Flechas today

Ellen,Thanks for your response. Lynn said Flechas mentioned giving TSH when theygive radioiodine. Since the report she referred to was "TSH StimulationbeforeRadioiodine Enhances Goiter Shrinkage", I was assuming this was the type ofRAI which ablates the thyroid. I think the radioactive marker used in theThyrogen Uptake Scan must either be a much lower dosage or a differentcomposition. But I can see how giving TSH would enhance the action of eventhe ablative RAI. I didn't know it was done, but I'm not very knowledgableabout RAI.Lynn> The type of scan Flecha spoke of is called a Thyrogen Uptake Scan. It> is usually reserved for cancer patients or those who have had RAI> ablation or Total Thyroidectomy. The theory is to starve the thyroid> from lack of iodine for about 2 weeks, then give it a shot of> synthetic TSH called Thyrogen and then give the radioactive marker.> The proper way of scanning is a total body scan, not just the throat> scan of a regular uptake scan to find metastatic cells or misplaced> thyroid tissue (which is common. Ask me if you need to know why). Do> a search on Thyrogen Uptake Scan or you can go to the Thyca site and> there is good info on it. A normal uptake scan does not use TSH as> the purpose is not to find hidden bits of active thyroid, but to> identify how active the gland or nodule is at taking in the iodine and> turning it into thyroid hormone.>> Hope this helps.>> E (Ellen in Missouri)> > Also, do they really give TSH to patients when they> give radioiodine? I've never heard of TSH being given as an> exogeneous substance. Perhaps your memory of his response on this> question wasn't 100% correct. I look forward to seeing the short report.> > Lynn M.> He gave me a report of a Danish study: TSH Stimulation before> Radioiodine Enhances Goiter Shrinkage by Bell. Basically they> give TSH to patients to facilitate iodine absorption into the thyroid.> So the iodine hungry thyroid is secreting more TSH to help uptake. (I> will try to scan this short report in for us).> Lynn

[Guest guest]

No, I have a friend whose daughter is tho.

Unfortunately, that's not how I learned about it. I am post ablative

(lab confirmed) RAI and my thyroid is growing back, something every

doc has said was extremely rare to impossible. (I have since found

research that states as many as 30% of RAI patients have to have the

procedure repeated) I stormed after surgery a few months back and

nobody could understand what was going on since I had been told " you

have no thyroid " too many times to begin counting. I was warned of it

prior to surgery. (There was a disagreement between docs and the

anesthesiologists refused to do a general, so I just had a local. The

Betadine prep and stress of surgery was too much tho and POW!)

A Thyroid storm can act like an adrenal crisis and several other

things like Pheochromacytoma or carcinoid as well, so they wanted to

do this scan on me since no blood was pulled at the time of the

incident- they said it would be days before the results came back and

therefore useless. I went on the low iodine diet in prep, then got

dropped by my doc because he was too afraid to do it. Got a new endo

and he said there was no reason to do it- I had dropped to extreme

hypO when I quit the iodine, so that pretty much proved the point that

the thyroid was producing its own hormone at least to a certain

extent. That and the MRI that showed normal tissue, so the subject

was (happily)dropped. In a graves patient a thyrogen scan could cause

a storm and fatality, so in retrospect I'm glad it worked out the way

that it did.

I found out later my friend's daughter had the thyrogen scan and more

tissue was found so she had to have a second surgery. They are

watching her very carefully in hopes nothing else shows up- the tissue

they found was metastatic. I don't know if she's had another scan

done or not- I know it's the time they were going to check her tho any

day now. She's only 23.

Hope this helps.

E (Ellen in Missouri)

> >

> > Lynn, thanks for writing up Flechas' answers to questions.

> >

> > I am puzzled by the answer to question 1. TSH is secreted by the

> pituitary, not the thyroid. So how can the iodine hungry thyroid

> secrete more TSH? Also, do they really give TSH to patients when they

> give radioiodine? I've never heard of TSH being given as an

> exogeneous substance. Perhaps your memory of his response on this

> question wasn't 100% correct. I look forward to seeing the short

report.

> >

> > Regarding question 8, the relationship between thyroid meds and

> breast cancer. I believe synthroid could have a markedly different

> effect on the body than dessicated thyroid, so I'd be curious to know

> if the researchers looked at each group separately or lumped everyone

> together. Does anyone know more about this 1979 research? As someone

> who doesn't have a thyroid due to congenital misdevelopment and

> therefore must be on thyroid replacement (and I've been on it for 57

> years), this issue concerns me. I wonder if the thyroid meds - breast

> cancer relationship is overly simplistic.

> >

> > Lynn M.

> >

> > 1.. Do you have a good explanation for the doctor's who worry

> when the TSH goes up on higher iodine supplementation? Some breast

> cancer women have had their Iodoral lowered because of increasing TSH.

> > He gave me a report of a Danish study: TSH Stimulation before

> Radioiodine Enhances Goiter Shrinkage by Bell. Basically they

> give TSH to patients to facilitate iodine absorption into the thyroid.

> So the iodine hungry thyroid is secreting more TSH to help uptake. (I

> will try to scan this short report in for us).

> >

> > 8.. Could you say more on the relationship between thyroid meds

> and breast cancer? Should we ideally only be taking iodine instead of

> thyroid? Does it apply to all ages and sexes?

> > Flechas said that he thinks that this is due to the cyclical

> nature of our endogenously produced hormones so they are pulsing and

> between pulses the breast is allowed to regain iodine. When we take

> thyroid the reloading between pulses isn't available to the breast

> cells. A 1979 study showed a 12% increase in breast cancer with women

> on thyroid medication. After 15 years it increased to 20%.

> >

> > This applies to all types of thyroid including compounded

> bio-identical, armour, and synthroid.__ ._,___

> >

>

[Guest guest]

No, they don't give it before ablation, as since you are already hyper

your thyroid sucks up the I131 like a sponge. My uptake was over 80%

which is extremely high. I can't remember if that was an hour or so

after getting it. The norm scan is quite low, maybe 5-10% if I

remember correctly. You'll want to look it up if you're interested in

it. The halflife of I131 is about 8 days.

The type used for a scan is called I123 and has a halflife much

shorter- I think 13 hrs or something close to that.

For future reference, I don't recommend ingesting any kind of

radioactive iodine if you can help it. If I had not been so desperate

then, and naive, it never would have happened in the first place.

There are better ways to treat Autoimmune thyroid disease. My thyroid

is growing back, but I'll not do ablation again unless my life depends

on it.

E (Ellen in Missouri)

>

> Ellen,

> Thanks for your response. Lynn said Flechas mentioned giving TSH

when they

> give radioiodine. Since the report she referred to was " TSH Stimulation

> before

> Radioiodine Enhances Goiter Shrinkage " , I was assuming this was the

type of

> RAI which ablates the thyroid. I think the radioactive marker used

in the

> Thyrogen Uptake Scan must either be a much lower dosage or a different

> composition. But I can see how giving TSH would enhance the action

of even

> the ablative RAI. I didn't know it was done, but I'm not very

knowledgable

> about RAI.

>

> Lynn

>

>

> > The type of scan Flecha spoke of is called a Thyrogen Uptake Scan. It

> > is usually reserved for cancer patients or those who have had RAI

> > ablation or Total Thyroidectomy. The theory is to starve the thyroid

> > from lack of iodine for about 2 weeks, then give it a shot of

> > synthetic TSH called Thyrogen and then give the radioactive marker.

> > The proper way of scanning is a total body scan, not just the throat

> > scan of a regular uptake scan to find metastatic cells or misplaced

> > thyroid tissue (which is common. Ask me if you need to know why). Do

> > a search on Thyrogen Uptake Scan or you can go to the Thyca site and

> > there is good info on it. A normal uptake scan does not use TSH as

> > the purpose is not to find hidden bits of active thyroid, but to

> > identify how active the gland or nodule is at taking in the iodine and

> > turning it into thyroid hormone.

> >

> > Hope this helps.

> >

> > E (Ellen in Missouri)

>

> > > Also, do they really give TSH to patients when they

> > give radioiodine? I've never heard of TSH being given as an

> > exogeneous substance. Perhaps your memory of his response on this

> > question wasn't 100% correct. I look forward to seeing the short

report.

> > > Lynn M.

>

> > He gave me a report of a Danish study: TSH Stimulation before

> > Radioiodine Enhances Goiter Shrinkage by Bell. Basically they

> > give TSH to patients to facilitate iodine absorption into the thyroid.

> > So the iodine hungry thyroid is secreting more TSH to help uptake. (I

> > will try to scan this short report in for us).

> > Lynn

>

[Guest guest]

Wow that's quite a story. I was thinking that you pulled the iodine out on your LID which would naturally make you go hypo due to lack of idoine. What idiots these Dr's are!

As for your friend's daughter didn't they do a total thyroidectomy? The RAI should have showed a glow in the neck. They did a post ablative scan I am assuming and then did she have a followup scan later (like months)? Where was the tissue they found. I am interested in this because I have had positive Tg w/ neg RAI scans since dx 7 yrs ago. They just keep blasting me with RAI (now I am at my max so no more) to try to kill what they can't see. Insane!

Re: Results of my visit with Flechas today

I found out later my friend's daughter had the thyrogen scan and moretissue was found so she had to have a second surgery. They arewatching her very carefully in hopes nothing else shows up- the tissuethey found was metastatic. I don't know if she's had another scandone or not- I know it's the time they were going to check her tho anyday now. She's only 23.Hope this helps.E (Ellen in Missouri)

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