Re: healing vs symptom relief

[Guest guest]

>From: <kennio@...>

>I think there is always hope as the body wants to repair itself, but it

>will happily allow your

>superseding the healing process by the taking of additional hormones that

>address the symptoms. I

>think you just can't BLOW your thyroid and adrenals without first having a

>huge unaddressed

>nutritional emergency preceding it.

It's not always a nutritional problem, you know.

Or if it is, it's not always because one makes poor diet choices. You can

eat lettuce (iceberg has almost no nutritional value, is it common knowledge

that Romaine and leaf lettuce has a lot more value) and when you eat the

lettuce without knowing it you can be bombarded from the rocket fuel from

the Colorado River, because you're not buying locally.

You can think you are getting lots of selenium because you eat Brazil Nuts.

You're correct if they are harvested from the rain forest in Brazil. But,

if they're from Mexico the content isn't nearly as high. Which of course

begs the question, when you buy your food, do you even know the state or

even the country of origin? Some countries still use DDT, you know.

Not everyone can afford organic.

Just because you can be helped by hormones, doesn't mean you have to stay on

them the rest of your life.

Someone with historical high titters of Hashimoto's went into the emergency

room with an adrenal crises. They treated him with corticosteroids. After

the treatment were done, he no longer had Hashimoto's and didn't need

adrenal support beyond the dose of corticosteroids he was given.

Dr. Durrant-Peatfield found in his practice, that if someone had low

adrenals and he gave adrenal support first, in some cases the patient's

thyroid no longer needed treatment, and the need for hyrrocortisone was only

temporary.

Dr. , found that he could " reset " the mechanism for patients that was

causing them to be hypothyroid, and they would be able to stop their thyroid

hormone afterward. However, that's not the method you seemed to

mention as you used his name but were considering a different approach.

According to thyroidmanager.org, 25% of Hashi's cases go away on their own.

Just because you take a hormone, doesn't mean you have to take it forever.

It depends on the real root of the problem.

Skipper

_________________________________________________________________

Get the new Windows Live Messenger!

http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us & source=wlmai\

ltagline

[Guest guest]

Yes, I had to ask for those numbers to be collected as well.

My T3 was at the low-end for all tests, but unlike my TSH,

it was never outside the range. Calorie restriction has been

shown to often lower T3 levels, but it's not supposed to raise

the TSH figure. As it stands, we do not have another drawing

scheduled yet, but I have a regular physical in December, so

perhaps we'll discuss another round of lab work for next July.

Thanks,

-

www.zenpawn.com/vegblog

>

> TSH can fluctuate this much in a day....so it might be more helpful

to you to monitor your thyroid hormones to make sure they are lookin

good..and maybe test at the same time each time for consistency.

> cindi

[Guest guest]

LOL, I knew I could count on you, Gracia, to comment on this.

The high TSH is surely a problem. I don't think the others

are necessarily guilty of causation.

It was actually when I *increased* my dairy consumption with

kefir (and more yogurt than before) that I first started

getting symptoms of fatigue. I didn't want to believe there

was a connection, however, and it took me a year before I

decided to follow through with my suspicions and go fully

vegan. Of course, seeing how I had added some supplements,

namely L-tyrosine and ashwagandha, at the same time, I cannot

say for sure it was the only variable.

What would you have me do? Add meat back to my diet?!

I think not; I've been vegetarian for over ten years.

-

www.zenpawn.com/vegblog

>

>

> vegan/high TSH/calorie restriction sounds like a recipe for

problems to me.

> gracia

[Guest guest]

Well, that wasn't as painful as I thought it would be. I have,

of course, been hinting at my diet, but have not necessarily laid it

on the line until now. I have been in many a group where the

Mercola/etc. crew pounces at the chance to disparage the veg[etari]an

lifestyle. I am glad to see we are a happy group with folks capable

of showing restraint and respect for others' paths. I also am

pleased to feel the real wishes for well-being. Thank you.

To answer some of those concerns, I want to clarify that, 1) I get

plenty of protein (at least 100g/day, as I lift weights), 2) I take

sublingual B12 supplements, and 3) as for pre-formed vitamin A, it is

present in my milk alternative and cereals. Too much of this last is

bad for your bones, anyway, so it is best, if you can convert beta-

carotene, to get the majority that way. I went vegan after my

increased milk consumption seemed correlated to my symptoms. The

final straw was when I learned of the acceptable levels of pus in

dairy. Ewww...

Anyway, it is good to see that we have some, albeit perhaps a small

contingent, of members (, etc.) seeking non-hormonal solutions to

their thyroid issues. Let's please continue to revisit this theme as

we discover new nutritional means of addressing hypothyroidism. As

for iodine, Gracia, you asked why only 1 mg/day instead of 50? In

short, fear.

Thanks all for listening,

-

www.zenpawn.com/vegblog

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Linn, for your interest. I may well be a protein-craver too,

but seeing as I get at least 100 g/day, I've got it covered.

Over the last three months, I have averaged a P:C:F ratio of

22:60:18, with flax seeds and nuts contributing the majority of the

fat. After being lacto-ovo for 10+ years, the vegan switch was

assured after reading _Eat to Live_ by Dr. Fuhrman and _The

China Study_ by T. Colin . (Neither, as I recall, mention

pus, lol.) They both say we need much less protein than commonly

assumed, but I still load up on the stuff.

-

www.zenpawn.com/vegblog

>

> ,

>

> I like getting info from opposite sides of the camps. In reading

> about nutrition, this is one of the things that I haven't been

able

> to reconcile, the vegetarians vs. meat. The data is pretty

> compelling regarding heart disease and other health problems

> improving when going on a vegetarian diet, but the info is just as

> compelling regarding the protein and fats that your body needs, so

> I've been in a quandary over this. So my solution is to eat meat

but

> also tons of vegetables. I'm like Gracia, I crave the protein.

In

> fact I don't feel well without it, but I also crave things like

> salads and my house is rarely without a staple amount of carrots

and

> apples, in fact if I run out I will have to go to the store that

day

> to get more.

>

> Linn

[Guest guest]

>

> >From: " " <truepatriot@...>

>

> >Well, that wasn't as painful as I thought it would be. I have,

> >of course, been hinting at my diet, but have not necessarily laid

it

> >on the line until now. I have been in many a group where the

>

> >To answer some of those concerns, I want to clarify that, 1) I get

> >plenty of protein (at least 100g/day, as I lift weights), 2) I take

> >sublingual B12 supplements,

>

> Does this mean you've actually had your B12 levels tested? Many

think the

> supplements are not adequate, and the shots better for absorption.

So, it

> would be meaningful to have it tested if it hasn't been. Some

sources say

> it's inadequate if it's not over 540.

It would be nice to have it tested. A shot of it would probably feel

quite nice (aside from the needle part). I just got sick of all

the blood draws.

> and 3) as for pre-formed vitamin A, it is

> >present in my milk alternative and cereals.

>

> I doubt the real vitamin A is harmful, but the sythetic added to a

product

> may be.

I think the bone-eroding culprit is the retinol form.

> If the milk alternative is soy, you've probably heard the

disparaging

> remarks about that.

Indeed I have, hence my careful lack of specification. Actually,

at various times, I have dropped soy products from my diet. But, I

think it's not entirely clear and there are emotional, vested-

interest arguments on both sides. I'm back with soy, but I keep my

ears to the ground and read the studies as they come in.

> I went vegan after my

> >increased milk consumption seemed correlated to my symptoms. The

> >final straw was when I learned of the acceptable levels of pus in

> >dairy. Ewww...

>

> Yes, but a lot of people claim pasteurized milk isn't particularly

good for

> you anyway.

I know. I got to hear those raw milk fanatics ad nauseam on the

kefir groups. You wouldn't find me sucking on a cow teat

though. LOL.

> Pus sounds nasty, but so does an allowable insect part content for

flour.

> So is pesticide residue on vegetables.

Agreed.

> >Anyway, it is good to see that we have some, albeit perhaps a small

> >contingent, of members (, etc.) seeking non-hormonal solutions

to

> >their thyroid issues.

>

> Non-hormonal answers aren't the only ones. Some simply need the

hormones.

> After all, if you are hypothyroid because you

are low in

> selenium, what chance do you have of finding that out? Very

little. Don't

> think science knows all the answers yet, hypothyroidism could be

cause by

> lack of or an excess of some unknown minerals.

>

> So, there are a few things that might keep a hypothyroid person

from needing

> thyroid hormone, but I'm not sure the chances are real good.

>

> I think there used to be more thyroid hormone in the natural diet

of meat

> eaters, as they used to eat more of the animal, probably including

the

> thyroid gland.

>

> I've read there are some plants that have thyroid hormone in them,

but I

> can't name them. Science has only recently learned this.

>

> We really have such a tiny bit of knowledge.

>

> Good luck to those who think they can avoid hormones. Maybe they

will.

> Some will avoid the hormones, think they feel well, yet have the

> consequences of hypothyroidism and not even know it.

>

>

> OTOH, maybe they will succeed. But, that should be evidenced by

their

> antibodies going away, or by their TSH being around the 1.5 median

TSH of

> healthy people, and their T4 and T3 at acceptable levels. Then I

would

> believe them to have avoided the need for thyroid hormone.

>

> Since it's a subtle disease, it can do damage without someone

really

> thinking they are hypothyroid. As my thyroid doc said " It seems

the first

> thing to go is the self critical diagnostic that tells you how bad

off you

> really are. "

I hope I'm not past rational thought yet(?). Even if I were to take

hormones, I would be faced with a minor quandary: to take the animal-

based stuff or Synthroid. So, I continue to experiment, and I reckon

I'm not alone in this goal. Heck, even Gracia is saying she'd like

to start trying to lower her hormone intake! Without further

improvement, perhaps I will next test my hypothesis regarding gluten

being an issue.

> Let's please continue to revisit this theme as

> >we discover new nutritional means of addressing hypothyroidism. As

> >for iodine, Gracia, you asked why only 1 mg/day instead of 50? In

> >short, fear.

>

>

> Fear is a good reason. What do you think more will do to you?

Make me worse (i.e., more hypothyrodic [is that a word?]).

> Note the Japanese are said to regularly eat 12.5 mg per day.

True, but haven't we also seen papers make their way through this

group finding increased goiter among the same?

-

www.zenpawn.com/vegblog

[Guest guest]

As in too much calcium? Yes, definitely. I didn't know it could

cause hypothyroid issues (can it?), but I was concerned about

arterial calcification. On the other hand, with enough vitamin K,

which surely a kale-eating herbivore like myself consumes in

quantity, that probably wasn't really a valid concern. Now, I don't

have to worry about it.

Thanks,

-

www.zenpawn.com/vegblog

>

> >

> > It was actually when I *increased* my dairy

> > consumption with

> > kefir (and more yogurt than before) that I first

> > started

> > getting symptoms of fatigue. I didn't want to

> > believe there

> > was a connection, however, and it took me a year

> > before I

> > decided to follow through with my suspicions and go

> > fully

> > vegan. Of course, seeing how I had added some

> > supplements,

> > namely L-tyrosine and ashwagandha, at the same time,

> > I cannot

> > say for sure it was the only variable.

[Guest guest]

To me the question is not" too much calcium".

The question is "not enough Magnesium to balance the Calcium."

So, either decrease Calcium or increase Magnesium. Most people are critically deficient in Magnesium

http://www.hippocrates.com.au/magnesium.html

http://www.vrp.com/art/1715.asp

mjh"The Basil Book"http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/

Re: healing vs symptom relief

Posted by: "" truepatriot@... cronzen

Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:10 pm (PST)

As in too much calcium? Yes, definitely. I didn't know it could cause hypothyroid issues (can it?), but I was concerned about arterial calcification. On the other hand, with enough vitamin K, which surely a kale-eating herbivore like myself consumes in quantity, that probably wasn't really a valid concern. Now, I don't have to worry about it. :)Thanks,-www.zenpawn.com/vegblog

[Guest guest]

>

> To me the question is not " too much calcium " .

>

> The question is " not enough Magnesium to balance the Calcium. "

>

> So, either decrease Calcium or increase Magnesium. Most people are

> critically deficient in Magnesium

I concur.

-

www.zenpawn.com/vegblog

[Guest guest]

>>I like getting info from opposite sides of the camps. In reading about nutrition, this is one of the things that I haven't been able to reconcile, the vegetarians vs. meat. >>

That's b/c muscle meat is not really good for you, but organ meats and/or shellfish are imperative for good health. I have never met a healthy vegan. If you believe in the precept that like cures like, eating animals makes sense (besides the fact that we are not cattle). Eating eyes is good for your eyes, heart for your heart, etc. This is b/c God is brilliant and simple: we need A for our eyes, A concentrates there, thus eating the eyes of another animal will provide a huge amount of A. We need Co Q10 for our hearts; guess where you find an obscene amount of it?

Muscle meat, cooked, is terribly hard to digest. Raw muscle meat is both unbelievably tender but digests in 20 minutes or less. It was a high hurdle for me at first, but once you try it, a tiny bit, then abit more, then a bit more, you WILL begin to crave it in a way that will surprise you. Ice cold NewYork Strip, sliced, with crunchy sea salt is simply heaven, I promise you. But I strongly recommend that you have a healthy colon and do not do colonics (without re-populating your colon) right before eating this way. You need healthy gut bacteria; not super-hero healthy, just healthy.

I do not wish to argue the relative merits of vegetariansim. It is simply not a healthy way to live; but if your religious about it, then by all means.

Jane