Guest guest Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 doc told you wrong. Symptom of low adrenals is tired but wired, being a nightowl. Cortef allows you to sleep. Gracia I used cortef but I'm not and have never been depressed. My dr said that if you take cortef later than noon, it might keep you from being able to fall asleep. Sue>> > FYI Broda Foundation actually recommneds prednisolone (Deltacortril) over cortef! according to a person who called there. Hertoghe uses both but says there is a difference--cortef is best used for mental complaints like depression. DHEA is also good for depression.You don't want to onit the 4th dose of cortef, believe me. gracia No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.8/455 - Release Date: 9/22/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 And so to be clear, I disagree with your " confused " assessment of the research information on addison's replacement dosages and adrenal suppression. I see nothing " confusing " about it...i do see thought-provoking information. I guess all of those who see something different are just unwell? well, as you know...I was called " mentally unstable " by a couple of folks for even daring to question and dig deeper and see what other research had to say. So if that's " unwell " , I guess overall I'm all for it. Because that's how I learned everything I know about thyroid treatment too. My experience with doctors has made me wary of blindly accepting any " standard protocol " until I've investigated it as thoroughly as I can. As for Tish, she's in graduate school now. cindi > > > this is not a personal attack. Please be clear about that. This is my assessment of her " information " . It's very very confused. That does not mean she's a bad person etc. It means she is unwell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 If I took 20 mgs of cortef 4x per day in divided doses, I was awake at night. If I took it all by noon, I slept great but I got more moody while being on it. My dr said that the cortef, even on 20 mgs or less can make you more hostile to others and for you to get evaluated on the status of your adrenals. I'm just glad that I'm off of it. I don't miss it at all. My chiropractor muscle tested me while I was on it and said I was taking too much. I think we're all gonna get in trouble for going off of the iodine topic. I'm not signing my name. lol > > > doc told you wrong. Symptom of low adrenals is tired but wired, being a nightowl. Cortef allows you to sleep. > Gracia > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 My doc operates more from the start with a lower dose theory and see how you do, you can always add more if it's not working. I'm a pretty big wuss when it comes to taking anything. I prefer to correct the problem by other means if possible. The first doses I took were only 2.5 mgs and I felt immediately better. Although it wasn't enough to continue on. I normally take 10 - 12 mgs a day and have found that to work very well. I am feeling tremendously better and it has allowed me to continue taking Armour and increasing without any side effects. But I am also taking magnesium. I think that a lot of symptoms I had that could have been seen as adrenal related for me were due to low mag, so between the two supplements my problems have gone away. I do think dosing would be dependent on several factors, including size, absorption problems, stress levels, condition of adrenals, etc. Also how people handle stress I think is a big factor. What would be major stress for one person could be a walk in the park to someone else. Personally I think to opt on the conservative side for any type of supplement is wise in the beginning, particularly when you are going it alone. I know we've all seen people start on cortisol, iodine, etc. without researching as much as they should.  Lots of people don't like to take the time to research or read books and are more likely to use groups like this to find info.  So to me the questioning or debating serves a greater good if it gets people to think.  I think it's great to hear pros and cons when it's fact based, and links or books referenced.   LinnOn Sep 26, 2006, at 12:15 PM, cindi22595 wrote:the same site (different page) also gives an addison's replacement dosage...which basically equates to the same thing as the safe dose of proper replacement. of course giving proper replacement should not cause side effects. again, the question is whether it is wise to be taking a full replacement dosage for AF. Even Jefferies points out the loss of adrenal reserve...storage for stresses. He said 60% loss at 20 mg. If we adjust that to H/c, it would be 60% loss at 16 mg. Again, some folks think this is fine...but then we still have folks on H/C after years...so where is the healing by this protocol? aren't they really just taking a full replacement dose and saying that's okay? . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2006 Report Share Posted September 27, 2006 >From: " cindi22595 " <cindi22595@...> >agreed - it absolutely is variable...i kept researching this subject >and about the only thing even slightly definitive is 10 mg. and less >taken in the morning probably will not suppress ones own adrenals. I would not take 10 mg in a single dose, on a regular basis. It is definitely too much at one time. >I can look at >my own daughter who has seasonal allergies and asthma...and I >think...hmm....5 mg. of h/c in the AM may help that during her >trouble months I think. Why has she tested low for cortisol? If not, there's no reason to give it to her. Is her thyroid treated yet? Many asthmatics find their asthma goes away with ADEQUATE thyroid treatment. Dr. Derry reported that he gave an asthma patient Armour Thyroid. (His starting dose was normally 3 grains.) The Armour cured her asthma. Afterward, he called all of his asthma patients in and gave them Armour. It cured them all. My wife's asthma went away, and I've talked to a few others who have said the same. Also note, medications like Claritin, aspirin and tylenol can induce asthma. My wife always had elevated cortisol, yet she had asthma until ADEQUATE thyroid treatment. >There is some literature out there thought that says every other day >dosing significantly reduces the risk of adrenal suppression And others suggest taking a break from it every 3 or 4 months. Skipper _________________________________________________________________ Search—Your way, your world, right now! http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us & FORM=WLMTAG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2006 Report Share Posted September 27, 2006 >From: " cindi22595 " <cindi22595@...> >Reply-iodine >iodine >Subject: Re: OT RE:ACTH stim testing >Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 16:28:00 -0000 > >but that's calculating a Full replacement dose. The first question becomes, are you sure that's what the article is referring to? The text says, " Glucocorticoids may be administered as replacement therapy in patients with primary or secondary adrenal insufficiency " , and nowhere is 's Disease mentioned. This means a couple things to me - One is, he may not be referring to 's Disease and full replacement dose for that, and Two, even if he is, I've corresponded with an 's patient, and they don't shoot for HPA suppression, they prefer to avoid it. So, I " m not sure if reducing the calculated amount is necessary. Side effects occur only with supraphysiologic doses of glucocorticoids and not with proper replacement, which is equivalent to 12 to 15 mg of hydrocortisone/ m2 body surface area per day (7). So, in giving his formula, one of his purposes is to avoid HPA suppression. Is there a reason you think otherwise? Besides that I doubt if it's really prudent to use a one size fits all formula without keeping an eye on what's happening. He also says this, " Perhaps the best predictor of HPA axis suppression is the patient's current glucocorticoid dosage (6). A strong correlation has been found between prednisone maintenance doses above 5 mg/ d and a subnormal ACTH-stimulation test result (40). " Since 5 mg of pred = 20 mg of Cortef, it's back to Jeffries concept that 20 mg per day taken in divided doses is probably OK in most people, but there's no harm in taking less, as long as it works. Skipper _________________________________________________________________ Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows Live Spaces http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.get\ ..live.com/spaces/features Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2006 Report Share Posted September 27, 2006 >From: " cindi22595 " <cindi22595@...> >I think it's unfair to say " you're perpetuating the confusion " when >I've tried to take an honest analysis of all the facts. > >Actually, Tish is very well respected and appreciated by many. And >there are actually a lot of folks who have sucessfully done lower >dose H/c but are afraid to tell their experiences. I've never been to NTH, but already know of at least 3 people kicked off. Is that why they're afraid to relate? Skipper _________________________________________________________________ Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows Live Spaces http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.get\ ..live.com/spaces/features Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2006 Report Share Posted September 27, 2006 >From: " cindi22595 " <cindi22595@...> > >but i will mention peatfield mentions " time limits " . But if someone >is still on 20 mg. h/c after 2 or 3 years, I would seriously wonder >if they are trying to " heal " their adrenals...or just taking h/c >replacement for life. If someone is taking Armour for life, do you wonder if they're trying to heal their thyroid, or simply want to take it for life? Why is that different? I'm thinking if one can't get off cortef, maybe there's a good reason. Lead is bad for the adrenals and thyroid, Mercury is bad for the adrenals and thyroid, PBB (I live in Michigan which was contaminated with it) is bad for the adrenals and thyroid, PCB (fish warnings here) is bad for the adrenals and thyroid, Perchlorate is bad for the adrenals and thyroid PABA (used to be in sunscreens) is bad for the adrenals. It's likely some of us just have our adrenals affected by toxins. Since we're not likely to be tested for these things, we'll probably know the original cause and if we do, may or may not be able to do anything about it. Beyond that, it's likely we're full of other toxins that'll never be detected. Most Michigan residents were exposed to PBB in 1973. It's expected to be found during our autopsies if they look for it. It's not going away. It's simply not always possible to " heal " the endocrine organs. Skipper _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself - download free Windows Live Messenger themes! http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://imagine\ -msn.com/themes/vibe/default.aspx?locale=en-us & source=hmtagline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2006 Report Share Posted September 27, 2006 >From: " cindi22595 " <cindi22595@...> >Lowe says that taking the last dose by 4 will eliminate problems with >sleeping...keeping in mind he's talking about AF from hypothyroid. >but i think many addison's folks just dose 2x a day...and so probably >wouldn't be taking it after lunch. >cindi If they take it twice a day, then it lasts longer than we think. These people crash badly when it's not in their system, and they keep it with them in case they need more. One person told me if her heart rate went up, She'd immediately take 2.5 mg of HC, and if it was from the 's, it would go back down within a half hour or so. That person was on a full replacment dose for 's of 25 mg. She did say that 20 mg was a full 's replacement for some, but they are also on Florinef which does make a difference. Skipper _________________________________________________________________ The next generation of Search—say hello! http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us & FORM=WLMTAG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2006 Report Share Posted September 27, 2006 >From: " cindi22595 " <cindi22595@...> >Lowe says that taking the last dose by 4 will eliminate problems with >sleeping...keeping in mind he's talking about AF from hypothyroid. >but i think many addison's folks just dose 2x a day...and so probably >wouldn't be taking it after lunch. >cindi If they take it twice a day, then it lasts longer than we think. These people crash badly when it's not in their system, and they keep it with them in case they need more. One person told me if her heart rate went up, She'd immediately take 2.5 mg of HC, and if it was from the 's, it would go back down within a half hour or so. That person was on a full replacment dose for 's of 25 mg. She did say that 20 mg was a full 's replacement for some, but they are also on Florinef which does make a difference. Skipper _________________________________________________________________ The next generation of Search—say hello! http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us & FORM=WLMTAG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 Clearly i wrote that wrong. I do not agree in taking 10 in a one time dose at all. I should have said AM...5 upon arising, 5 around lunch. I do not think 7.5 - 10 mg. (TOTAL) in the am will affect HPA axis. as for my daughter, i might refer you to Gracia on symptoms...how many symptoms must a person have before a doc decides to treat. yes, testing is a nice indicator...but not the tell all. There isn't a doubt in my mind she's low adrenal...and if I had any doubt, she also has enlarged kidneys that press on her adrenals. as for the asthma, I had her checked for thyroid antibodies and Free levels..nothing there at all to indicate hashi's...but i'm still suspicious. I also took asthma medication for 10 years before getting properly diagnosed with hashi's/hypo. cindi > > > I would not take 10 mg in a single dose, on a regular basis. It is > definitely too much at one time. > > > >I can look at > >my own daughter who has seasonal allergies and asthma...and I > >think...hmm....5 mg. of h/c in the AM may help that during her > >trouble months I think. > > Why has she tested low for cortisol? If not, there's no reason to give it > to her. > > Is her thyroid treated yet? Many asthmatics find their asthma goes away > with ADEQUATE thyroid treatment. Dr. Derry reported that he gave an asthma > patient Armour Thyroid. (His starting dose was normally 3 grains.) The > Armour cured her asthma. Afterward, he called all of his asthma patients in > and gave them Armour. It cured them all. > > My wife's asthma went away, and I've talked to a few others who have said > the same. > > Also note, medications like Claritin, aspirin and tylenol can induce asthma. > > My wife always had elevated cortisol, yet she had asthma until ADEQUATE > thyroid treatment. > > >There is some literature out there thought that says every other day > >dosing significantly reduces the risk of adrenal suppression > > And others suggest taking a break from it every 3 or 4 months. > > Skipper > > _________________________________________________________________ > Search—Your way, your world, right now! > http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en- us & FORM=WLMTAG > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 I was told specifically that folks would only be banned if they were disruptive or negative. I posted some musings about Peatfield's H/C protocol and was banned almost immediately afterwards. yes...all the ones that I know who have done 10 mg. - 12 mg. have said to me the atmostphere was hostile to lower dose H/C experiences. cindi > > >> > I've never been to NTH, but already know of at least 3 people kicked off. > Is that why they're afraid to relate? > > Skipper > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows Live > Spaces > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/? href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 I would hope that an 's replacement dose was safe to take without side effects. But whether a person is wise to take that full replacement when they don't have 's, that might be debatable. cindi > > >From: " cindi22595 " <cindi22595@...> > >Reply-iodine > >iodine > >Subject: Re: OT RE:ACTH stim testing > >Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 16:28:00 -0000 > > > >but that's calculating a Full replacement dose. > > The first question becomes, are you sure that's what the article is > referring to? The text says, " Glucocorticoids may be administered as > replacement therapy in patients with primary or secondary adrenal > insufficiency " , and nowhere is 's Disease mentioned. This means a > couple things to me - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 I have Hashi's....my thyroid is atrophied. I need thyroid hormone to live. 25% of hashi's folks will probably also have antibodies/damage to the adrenals and could benefit from lifetime HC. that leaves 75% that don't. But that's just Hashi's. hypo-adrenals have different origins. I agree that it is difficult to heal the endocrine system. cindi > > >From: " cindi22595 " <cindi22595@...> > > > > >but i will mention peatfield mentions " time limits " . But if someone > >is still on 20 mg. h/c after 2 or 3 years, I would seriously wonder > >if they are trying to " heal " their adrenals...or just taking h/c > >replacement for life. > > If someone is taking Armour for life, do you wonder if they're trying to > heal their thyroid, or simply want to take it for life? > > Why is that different? > > I'm thinking if one can't get off cortef, maybe there's a good reason. > > Lead is bad for the adrenals and thyroid, > Mercury is bad for the adrenals and thyroid, > PBB (I live in Michigan which was contaminated with it) is bad for the > adrenals and thyroid, > PCB (fish warnings here) is bad for the adrenals and thyroid, > Perchlorate is bad for the adrenals and thyroid > PABA (used to be in sunscreens) is bad for the adrenals. > > It's likely some of us just have our adrenals affected by toxins. > > Since we're not likely to be tested for these things, we'll probably know > the original cause and if we do, may or may not be able to do anything about > it. Beyond that, it's likely we're full of other toxins that'll never be > detected. > > Most Michigan residents were exposed to PBB in 1973. It's expected to be > found during our autopsies if they look for it. It's not going away. > > It's simply not always possible to " heal " the endocrine organs. > > Skipper > > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself - download free Windows Live Messenger themes! > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/? href=http://imagine-msn.com/themes/vibe/default.aspx?locale=en- us & source=hmtagline > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 Sharon, This is actually my position too. If low dose H/C improves my quality of life (after having spent 15-25 years with diagnosed hypo) in a way that is not harmful to me (and it does), I'm voting for it. At 51, quality of life is pretty important. Were I 25 and getting diagnosed hypo when i should have, I'd probably see this differently. So I don't know that my decision would be the best one for everyone. And I would never push it on anyone. I think a person needs to be fully informed before they make that decision. And so i might educate someone on the pros and Cons. I saw a thyroid forum moderator post there were no cons to HC, and i just disagree with that statement. That's not to say cons causes us not to choose something...it just means we need to be educated on those cons to make a wise decision. One of my complaints with the thyroid groups are folks are told to get on H/C, but it is very rarely mentioned you may be on this for life...and I think folks ought to know more. H/C can present a few more pitfalls than thyroid hormone imo. there's that little adrenal crisis thing is you just decide you don't think you need your meds. Cindi > > .. > > I totally agree. Thanks for saying it so well. I personally have > healing as a goal, but I need to keep perspective and realize that we > may not be at the point where we can understand and fix every adrenal > (and endocrine) problem. I strive to be in the fixable group but I may > not be. Given that there is an effective, safe treatment (HC), > accepting that is of comfort to me. I do what I can, and I accept > whatever the outcome is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 >From: " cindi22595 " <cindi22595@...> >yes...all the ones that I know who have done 10 mg. - 12 mg. have >said to me the atmostphere was hostile to lower dose H/C >experiences. There's nothing wrong with it. The vast majority of hypothyroid patients not on their optimal dose are given too little. Getting too little can actually produce new hypothyroid symptoms. Yet, some people are helped by 1/2 grain of Armour and don't do well if they go higher. I'm sure it's the same with adrenal replacement. What Jeffries says I consider to be safe and I suspect will work for most people. That doesn't mean you can't take less that 20 mg a day. Skipper _________________________________________________________________ Be seen and heard with Windows Live Messenger and Microsoft LifeCams http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.mic\ rosoft.com/hardware/digitalcommunication/default.mspx?locale=en-us & source=hmtagl\ ine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 >From: " cindi22595 " <cindi22595@...> >as for my daughter, i might refer you to Gracia on symptoms...how >many symptoms must a person have before a doc decides to treat. yes, >testing is a nice indicator...but not the tell all. There isn't a >doubt in my mind she's low adrenal...and if I had any doubt, she >also has enlarged kidneys that press on her adrenals. Weight problems (too little or too much), low temp, asthma, slow down in growth, lack of appetite are all hypo symptoms. Even if she does have " adrenal " symptoms, you can't tell them apart from hypothyroid symptoms because they are too interrelated. Frequently, if you fix one, you've fixed both. >as for the asthma, I had her checked for thyroid antibodies and Free >levels..nothing there at all to indicate hashi's...but i'm still >suspicious. I also took asthma medication for 10 years before >getting properly diagnosed with hashi's/hypo. And we had our son's TSH taken twice to rule out hypothyroidism. It was a nice 2.2. Had his symptoms been the same as either parent's he would have been treated a lot sooner. It's far more dangerous to not treat a hypo child. If I had suspicions my child was hypo now, I'd take his temperature and if it was low go find a doctor willing to treat. Their future could be greatly affected by it. Skipper _________________________________________________________________ Search—Your way, your world, right now! http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us & FORM=WLMTAG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 with UNDIAGNOSED hypo.... I obviously had postpartum thyroiditis after childbirth at age 23 which caused some symptoms for about 2 years...and then obviously was in the small percentage of that group that go on to develop full- blown hypo. by age 33, i was asking docs for thyroid testing...but didn't know enough then to know " normal " isn't necessarily so. I was finally diagnosed at age 48. Do i think my adrenals are ready to give up the fight? you betcha. cindi > > > > > . > > > > I totally agree. Thanks for saying it so well. I personally have > > healing as a goal, but I need to keep perspective and realize that > we > > may not be at the point where we can understand and fix every > adrenal > > (and endocrine) problem. I strive to be in the fixable group but I > may > > not be. Given that there is an effective, safe treatment (HC), > > accepting that is of comfort to me. I do what I can, and I accept > > whatever the outcome is. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 >From: " cindi22595 " <cindi22595@...> >One of my complaints with the thyroid groups are folks are told to >get on H/C, but it is very rarely mentioned you may be on this for >life...and I think folks ought to know more. H/C can present a few >more pitfalls than thyroid hormone imo. there's that little adrenal >crisis thing is you just decide you don't think you need your meds. If they have " that little adrenal crises thing " it's probably not from low dose HC, but from the adrenals being in really bad shape to begin with. Most normal people on 20 mg can simply stop and they'll be OK. I can stop, I can tell after a few days I shouldn't have, but those on low dose HC who have adrenal crises are likely 's. Not all 's is diagnosed, you know. After a few months on high doses of prednisone, that's a different matter. Skipper _________________________________________________________________ All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial! http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.win\ dowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 I would tend to agree somewhat...and disagree somewhat. it is true that hypo/adrenal is hard to differentiate since the symptoms can be similar...and hypo can cause adrenal dysfunction....however I consider myself an expert on hypo symptoms (smile) and my observation/knowledge about my daughter says only " adrenal " at this time. I might add my daughter is 27...so I've been observing for quite a while. cindi > > >From: " cindi22595 " <cindi22595@...> > > > >as for my daughter, i might refer you to Gracia on symptoms...how > >many symptoms must a person have before a doc decides to treat. yes, > >testing is a nice indicator...but not the tell all. There isn't a > >doubt in my mind she's low adrenal...and if I had any doubt, she > >also has enlarged kidneys that press on her adrenals. > > Weight problems (too little or too much), low temp, asthma, slow down in > growth, lack of appetite are all hypo symptoms. > > Even if she does have " adrenal " symptoms, you can't tell them apart from > hypothyroid symptoms because they are too interrelated. Frequently, if you > fix one, you've fixed both. > > >as for the asthma, I had her checked for thyroid antibodies and Free > >levels..nothing there at all to indicate hashi's...but i'm still > >suspicious. I also took asthma medication for 10 years before > >getting properly diagnosed with hashi's/hypo. > > And we had our son's TSH taken twice to rule out hypothyroidism. It was a > nice 2.2. Had his symptoms been the same as either parent's he would have > been treated a lot sooner. > > It's far more dangerous to not treat a hypo child. If I had suspicions my > child was hypo now, I'd take his temperature and if it was low go find a > doctor willing to treat. Their future could be greatly affected by it. > > Skipper > > _________________________________________________________________ > Search—Your way, your world, right now! > http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en- us & FORM=WLMTAG > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 Thanks for that acknowledgement. Even Peatfield says start with 2.5 and work up until stable....and that 20 mg. is the dose that works best ordinarily. I just think it's important to remember that there is variation in folks. It can be difficult on thyroid forums to always get all the info about a person before directing them on how to treat. age is important, weight may be a factor, digestive issues can cause someone to need more, other medical problems, how long undiagnosed.....so throwing out 20 mg./5 mg. 4x a day may not be the right answer for everyone. And although many say the average dose of Armour is 3-5 grains, there are folks who are doing well on a combo of T4/Armour or just 2 grains of Armour. I believe it was Issacs who had the study that everyone over 40? could benefit from 1/2 grain of desiccated thyroid extract. cindi > > >From: " cindi22595 " <cindi22595@...> > > > >yes...all the ones that I know who have done 10 mg. - 12 mg. have > >said to me the atmostphere was hostile to lower dose H/C > >experiences. > > There's nothing wrong with it. > > The vast majority of hypothyroid patients not on their optimal dose are > given too little. Getting too little can actually produce new hypothyroid > symptoms. Yet, some people are helped by 1/2 grain of Armour and don't do > well if they go higher. I'm sure it's the same with adrenal replacement. > > What Jeffries says I consider to be safe and I suspect will work for most > people. That doesn't mean you can't take less that 20 mg a day. > > Skipper > > _________________________________________________________________ > Be seen and heard with Windows Live Messenger and Microsoft LifeCams > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/? href=http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/digitalcommunication/default.m spx?locale=en-us & source=hmtagline > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 you think someone taking 20 mg. can just stop? and not wean? cindi > > > If they have " that little adrenal crises thing " it's probably not from low > dose HC, but from the adrenals being in really bad shape to begin with. > Most normal people on 20 mg can simply stop and they'll be OK. I can stop, > I can tell after a few days I shouldn't have, but those on low dose HC who > have adrenal crises are likely 's. Not all 's is diagnosed, > you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 Cindi, > yes...all the ones that I know who have done 10 mg. - 12 mg. have > said to me the atmostphere was hostile to lower dose H/C > experiences. To me this seems very similar to when anyone has anything neutral (let alone bad) to say about Armour Thyroid. Outrage!!!!! I think when we are using a treatment that is in general questioned, some people are very emotional and protective of it against all real and perceived attacks. Sharon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 The funny thing about the outrage over anything that isn't ARmour is...even Peatfield mentions T4 meds as a treatment. As well as some other respected thyroid docs. I think this gets back to the fact we are all individuals with different situations. The over 60 ladies who get their little dab of Synthroid may do just fine with that. Someone just diagnosed without major hashi's damage may do fine on T4. To me, it's Free levels that are most important. So I would say that I think Armour is the superior treatment in MOST cases, but I wouldn't presume to know what works for everyone in all cases, ya know? So although I do have strong, and even protective feelings about Armour...there are a couple of folks I know who haven't done so well on Armour and I've asked them if they have tried a different protocol just to see if that might work for them. and yes, i think your assessment is accurate of what is happening. cindi > > To me this seems very similar to when anyone has anything neutral (let > alone bad) to say about Armour Thyroid. Outrage!!!!! > > I think when we are using a treatment that is in general questioned, > some people are very emotional and protective of it against all real > and perceived attacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 >From: " cindi22595 " <cindi22595@...> >you think someone taking 20 mg. can just stop? and not wean? >cindi I can. I've done it several times. Maybe because my HPA isn't suppressed and my adrenals still work. OTOH, someone with actually 's Disease, diagnosed or not would have a big crash. Might even wind up in the ER. I've gone as long as a couple weeks without it, but the problem is I gradually decline. I have a suspicion my problems have to do with low cholesterol to a degree, as the building block of all the steroid hormones, Vitamin D, bile, progesterone, pregnenolone, testosterone, estrogen and cortisol is cholesterol. Not everyone with low cholesterol has adrenal problems, but some do. If one doesn't have enough cholesterol in the blood, and the adrenals can't manufacture enough from acetate, then there won't be enough cholesterol to build those steroid hormones necessary for life. So in answer to your question, not everyone on 20 mg needs to wean off the dosage. Especially if our HPA is not suppressed, which in most cases it won't be at that level. If I don't take my Cortef today, nothing bad is going to happen. I'm not that dependent on it. At least, not any more. There was a time I needed to take it promptly on schedule, but it has strengthened my adrenals, the adrenal " reserve " is higher, and my HPA is not suppressed. I'm not advising anyone to simply stop their cortef without weaning. Some people really have a desperate need for it, so not everyone can do so safely. I also don't wean down from large doses. When I went to the dentist and took 80 mg of Cortef before going that day, which greatly helped with my recovery, I simply took the 80 mg that one day and was back down to 20 the next day. A large dose taken only one day is not going to suppress the HPA either. Oh, I know that's why the establishment medical profession is afraid of it, it'll induce 's Disease and you'll be dependent on it the rest of your life. But, if you need Prednisone and you meet certain criteria, we'll give you 20 times the suppressive dose and be happy to do so. Cortef is a very safe medication when used in low doses. Skipper _________________________________________________________________ Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows Live Spaces http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.get\ ..live.com/spaces/features Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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