Guest guest Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 I told my doctor to run all thyroid tests. I got TSH, t3 t4 totals and free, TPO ab but I don't see TG or thyroglubulin. Does it go by another acronym or name? --- ladybugsandbees <ladybugsandbees@...> wrote: > At my last appointment with Dr. Brownstein we discussed that if my Tg > (thyroglobulin) numbers did not come down that he would increase my dose form > 50 mg Iodoral to 62.5 mg. He told me to pick up a bottle of 50 mg Iodoral so > that I would only have to take 2 tablets instead of 5. Well my Tg went down > so we are holding at 50 mg but now I am out of the 12.5 mg tablets. So today > I started taking the 50 mg pills. I took one this morning and now my mouth > is watering so bad and my neck feels prickly. I don't think my body likes > this dose all at once. I am thinking that I will be taking my pill splitter > out and cutting them in two. > > Anyone else taking 1 - 50 mg tablet? I feel like I am going to drool all > over the place if not paying attention. > > Buist > We become silent - The last days of health freedom > WATCH IT: http://tinyurl.com/g65on __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 I told my doctor to run all thyroid tests. I got TSH, t3 t4 totals and free, TPO ab but I don't see TG or thyroglubulin. Does it go by another acronym orname?=============================================== No it is called Thyroglobulin. It is useless for people who have a thyroid. It is only a test that is run on thyroid cancer patients who have had their thyroid removed and ablated with radioactive iodine. By doing these two things "theoretically" all tissue has been removed or killed. Since only the thyroid tissue and thyroid cancer cells create t his protein in the blood if all tissue is eliminated then the only thing that can be creating Tg is cancer cells which is why they use this as a marker. Most are able to get to below 1 when ablated by RAI but for me my number has never been lower than 4.9. You cannot use it as a cancer marker if you are just a normal person with a thyroid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 Interesting, . I didn't understand before why Tg was used as a marker for cancer. It is also commonly used as a measure of iodine deficiency. See the following study. Relations between various measures of iodine intake and thyroid volume, thyroid nodularity, and serum thyroglobulin Lone B Rasmussen, Lars Ovesen, Inge Bülow, Jørgensen, Nils Knudsen, Laurberg and Hans Perrild, 2002. Denmark. Article. "Objective: We sought to investigate the potential associations of various measures of iodine intake with thyroid volume, prevalence of thyroid nodules, and serum thyroglobulin. We also sought to identify, if possible, groups at risk of thyroid disease because of their food choices....Results: In multiple linear regression models, significant inverse relations were found between thyroid volume and estimated 24-h iodine excretion, iodine intake from diet plus supplements, iodine intake from diet/kg body wt, and milk intake (P = 0.001 for all), but not urinary iodine excretion measured as a concentration (P = 0.40). All measures of iodine intake were significantly related to serum thyroglobulin concentration (P 0.002), but only some measures of iodine intake were significantly related to the prevalence of thyroid nodules. Conclusions: Even in a geographic area where mild iodine deficiency is common, a significant relation between iodine intake and thyroid volume was found. All measures of iodine intake, except iodine excretion measured as a urinary concentration, predicted thyroid volume. Serum thyroglobulin concentration appears to be a good marker of iodine status. Subgroups with low intakes of milk and milk products had an increased risk of thyroid disease." http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/76/5/1069 Zoe I told my doctor to run all thyroid tests. I got TSH, t3 t4 totals and free, TPO ab but I don't see TG or thyroglubulin. Does it go by another acronym orname?=============================================== No it is called Thyroglobulin. It is useless for people who have a thyroid. It is only a test that is run on thyroid cancer patients who have had their thyroid removed and ablated with radioactive iodine. By doing these two things "theoretically" all tissue has been removed or killed. Since only the thyroid tissue and thyroid cancer cells create t his protein in the blood if all tissue is eliminated then the only thing that can be creating Tg is cancer cells which is why they use this as a marker. Most are able to get to below 1 when ablated by RAI but for me my number has never been lower than 4.9. You cannot use it as a cancer marker if you are just a normal person with a thyroid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 Relations between various measures of iodine intake and thyroid volume, thyroid nodularity, and serum thyroglobulin Yes I knew about that study. I am the one that sent it to you and had you put the link in the files. It is what got me searching for a tie to iodine and thyroglobulin and lead me to Dr. Brownstein and his treatment through iodine. I think there is something to this. I never took in salt, never drank milk and never ate sea food so I had no iodine intake (to speak of that would be relevant). I am sure this contributed to the thyroid cancer along with stress and poor lifestyle. Buist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 Yes, , I knew you knew this. But I thought maybe some of the other people might have missed it the first time. I myself am still not clear on what the numbers should looks like when using Tg to determine: (1) cancer status (2) iodine status. Can you give us some examples of what the numbers would look like if you were iodine sufficient vs. iodine deficient? And how those numbers would compare to the ones you get measuring cancer? Thanks! Zoe Re: Tg numbers Relations between various measures of iodine intake and thyroid volume, thyroid nodularity, and serum thyroglobulin Yes I knew about that study. I am the one that sent it to you and had you put the link in the files. It is what got me searching for a tie to iodine and thyroglobulin and lead me to Dr. Brownstein and his treatment through iodine. I think there is something to this. I never took in salt, never drank milk and never ate sea food so I had no iodine intake (to speak of that would be relevant). I am sure this contributed to the thyroid cancer along with stress and poor lifestyle. Buist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 I myself am still not clear on what the numbers should looks like when using Tg to determine: (1) cancer status (2) iodine status. Can you give us some examples of what the numbers would look like if you were iodine sufficient vs. iodine deficient? And how those numbers would compare to the ones you get measuring cancer? ===================================================================== Well for a cancer marker in a person who has had a complete thyroidectomy and RAI the Tg should be less than 1. Some Dr's allow for less than 5. I think maybe that depends on the assay method used. I was at 4.9 in 2001 before my pregnancy but then it rose during that time. I believe now that it was due to my increased need for iodine and not the pregnancy hormones as they told me it was. Pregnancy hormones are supposed to raise Tg as well but I have never found that scientific data. I think it is the only thing that they could figure was logical. For Iodine deficiency after a ThyCa dx I can't say that there is a correlation as most Dr's believe it to be tied to cancer when the Tg increases but now I am finding that it is tied to deficiency in iodine. I know that Dr. Brownstein understands this effect but doubt that many Endo's who are treating ThyCa patients do. I am seeing this though as my Tg is going down the more iodine I get into my body. I never had my Tg measured as a "normal" person so I am not sure of the range. I did find the following that may help give you an indication of a correlation to low iodine. Laboratory Range is 2.5 - 47 ( approx depending on assay again). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=3941162 & dopt=Abstract http://www.emro.who.int/Publications/EMHJ/1006/PDF/21%20Urinary%20iodine%20and%20other.pdf http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BCUWAK/103-1980540-4680613?v=glance & n=551440 http://www.thyroid.org/patients/notes/march05/05_03_20.html BuistMy Auctions: http://stores.ebay.com/Ladybugsandbees-Bargain-Bin?refid=storewww.stopthethyroidmadness.com We become silent - The last days of health freedomWATCH IT: http://tinyurl.com/g65on Re: Tg numbers Relations between various measures of iodine intake and thyroid volume, thyroid nodularity, and serum thyroglobulin Yes I knew about that study. I am the one that sent it to you and had you put the link in the files. It is what got me searching for a tie to iodine and thyroglobulin and lead me to Dr. Brownstein and his treatment through iodine. I think there is something to this. I never took in salt, never drank milk and never ate sea food so I had no iodine intake (to speak of that would be relevant). I am sure this contributed to the thyroid cancer along with stress and poor lifestyle. Buist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 Thanks, . I've looked at your references and also in Braverman's The Thyroid, 8th ed, p 406. This is what I have gleaned so far. 1. Tg numbers go up with iodine deficiency. In two studies, the numbers for the iodine deficient kids were over 40. In another case, the moderate/severe iodine deficiency kids averaged 23 and the optimal/mild deficiency averaged 14. Tg is considered one of the best ways of measuring iodine deficiency in a population. 2. Tg numbers are very high in thyroid cancer. One study with malignant nodules had an average of 464 +/- 248. 3. Tg numbers are quite high with benign nodules. One study gave the number for benign nodule at 86 +/- 16, and the number for diffuse and nodular goiter as 192 +/- 140. 4. Tg numbers for people with healthy thyroids, even when pregnant, have a fairly wide range. Average for normal thyroids = 11.3 (3 - 40). Average for pregnancy = 10 (1.2 - 34.7) One study on pregnancy found 31 +/- 2 for the first trimester, and 38 +/- 2 for the second trimester. Post-partum thyroiditis was high: 117 +/- 137. 5. Tg numbers for Graves can be high. Untreated Graves = 300 +/- 247. In remission, 33 +/- 31. 6. Tg number after complete Thyroidectomy and RAI should be less than 1. (from ) Zoe I myself am still not clear on what the numbers should looks like when using Tg to determine: (1) cancer status (2) iodine status. Can you give us some examples of what the numbers would look like if you were iodine sufficient vs. iodine deficient? And how those numbers would compare to the ones you get measuring cancer? ===================================================================== Well for a cancer marker in a person who has had a complete thyroidectomy and RAI the Tg should be less than 1. Some Dr's allow for less than 5. I think maybe that depends on the assay method used. I was at 4.9 in 2001 before my pregnancy but then it rose during that time. I believe now that it was due to my increased need for iodine and not the pregnancy hormones as they told me it was. Pregnancy hormones are supposed to raise Tg as well but I have never found that scientific data. I think it is the only thing that they could figure was logical. For Iodine deficiency after a ThyCa dx I can't say that there is a correlation as most Dr's believe it to be tied to cancer when the Tg increases but now I am finding that it is tied to deficiency in iodine. I know that Dr. Brownstein understands this effect but doubt that many Endo's who are treating ThyCa patients do. I am seeing this though as my Tg is going down the more iodine I get into my body. I never had my Tg measured as a "normal" person so I am not sure of the range. I did find the following that may help give you an indication of a correlation to low iodine. Laboratory Range is 2.5 - 47 ( approx depending on assay again). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=3941162 & dopt=Abstract http://www.emro.who.int/Publications/EMHJ/1006/PDF/21%20Urinary%20iodine%20and%20other.pdf http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BCUWAK/103-1980540-4680613?v=glance & n=551440 http://www.thyroid.org/patients/notes/march05/05_03_20.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 So Tg must be a different thing than anti-Tg, which is one of the Hashi's antibodies, right?-- prrZoe & <ZOEA@...> wrote: Thanks, . I've looked at your references and also in Braverman's The Thyroid, 8th ed, p 406. This is what I have gleaned so far. 1. Tg numbers go up with iodine deficiency. In two studies, the numbers for the iodine deficient kids were over 40. In another case, the moderate/severe iodine deficiency kids averaged 23 and the optimal/mild deficiency averaged 14. Tg is considered one of the best ways of measuring iodine deficiency in a population. 2. Tg numbers are very high in thyroid cancer. One study with malignant nodules had an average of 464 +/- 248. 3. Tg numbers are quite high with benign nodules. One study gave the number for benign nodule at 86 +/- 16, and the number for diffuse and nodular goiter as 192 +/- 140. 4. Tg numbers for people with healthy thyroids, even when pregnant, have a fairly wide range. Average for normal thyroids = 11.3 (3 - 40). Average for pregnancy = 10 (1.2 - 34.7) One study on pregnancy found 31 +/- 2 for the first trimester, and 38 +/- 2 for the second trimester. Post-partum thyroiditis was high: 117 +/- 137. 5. Tg numbers for Graves can be high. Untreated Graves = 300 +/- 247. In remission, 33 +/- 31. 6. Tg number after complete Thyroidectomy and RAI should be less than 1. (from ) Zoe I myself am still not clear on what the numbers should looks like when using Tg to determine: (1) cancer status (2) iodine status. Can you give us some examples of what the numbers would look like if you were iodine sufficient vs. iodine deficient? And how those numbers would compare to the ones you get measuring cancer? ===================================================================== Well for a cancer marker in a person who has had a complete thyroidectomy and RAI the Tg should be less than 1. Some Dr's allow for less than 5. I think maybe that depends on the assay method used. I was at 4.9 in 2001 before my pregnancy but then it rose during that time. I believe now that it was due to my increased need for iodine and not the pregnancy hormones as they told me it was. Pregnancy hormones are supposed to raise Tg as well but I have never found that scientific data. I think it is the only thing that they could figure was logical. For Iodine deficiency after a ThyCa dx I can't say that there is a correlation as most Dr's believe it to be tied to cancer when the Tg increases but now I am finding that it is tied to deficiency in iodine. I know that Dr. Brownstein understands this effect but doubt that many Endo's who are treating ThyCa patients do. I am seeing this though as my Tg is going down the more iodine I get into my body. I never had my Tg measured as a "normal" person so I am not sure of the range. I did find the following that may help give you an indication of a correlation to low iodine. Laboratory Range is 2.5 - 47 ( approx depending on assay again). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=3941162 & dopt=Abstract http://www.emro.who.int/Publications/EMHJ/1006/PDF/21%20Urinary%20iodine%20and%20other.pdf http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BCUWAK/103-1980540-4680613?v=glance & n=551440 http://www.thyroid.org/patients/notes/march05/05_03_20.html New Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big. Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min with Messenger with Voice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 8, 2006 Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 Anti-TPO ?Diagnosis for auto-immune thyroid disease Anti-Tg ?Anti-Tg testing is primarily used, together with serum Tg measurement, in patients with differentiated thyroid carcinoma http://www.abbottdiagnostics.com/Reagents_Tests/pdf/anti_tg_spec_sheet.pdf --- Ross <p_r_ross@...> wrote: > So Tg must be a different thing than anti-Tg, which is one of the Hashi's > antibodies, right? > > -- prr > > Zoe & <ZOEA@...> wrote: Thanks, . I've > looked at your references and also in Braverman's The Thyroid, 8th ed, p > 406. > > This is what I have gleaned so far. > > 1. Tg numbers go up with iodine deficiency. In two studies, the numbers > for the iodine deficient kids were over 40. In another case, the > moderate/severe iodine deficiency kids averaged 23 and the optimal/mild > deficiency averaged 14. Tg is considered one of the best ways of measuring > iodine deficiency in a population. > > 2. Tg numbers are very high in thyroid cancer. One study with malignant > nodules had an average of 464 +/- 248. > > 3. Tg numbers are quite high with benign nodules. One study gave the > number for benign nodule at 86 +/- 16, and the number for diffuse and > nodular goiter as 192 +/- 140. > > 4. Tg numbers for people with healthy thyroids, even when pregnant, have a > fairly wide range. Average for normal thyroids = 11.3 (3 - 40). Average > for pregnancy = 10 (1.2 - 34.7) One study on pregnancy found 31 +/- 2 for > the first trimester, and 38 +/- 2 for the second trimester. Post-partum > thyroiditis was high: 117 +/- 137. > > 5. Tg numbers for Graves can be high. Untreated Graves = 300 +/- 247. In > remission, 33 +/- 31. > > 6. Tg number after complete Thyroidectomy and RAI should be less than 1. > (from ) > > Zoe > > > I myself am still not clear on what the numbers should looks like > when using Tg to determine: > (1) cancer status > (2) iodine status. > > Can you give us some examples of what the numbers would look like if you > were iodine sufficient vs. iodine deficient? And how those numbers would > compare to the ones you get measuring cancer? > > ===================================================================== > > Well for a cancer marker in a person who has had a complete thyroidectomy > and RAI the Tg should be less than 1. Some Dr's allow for less than 5. > I think maybe that depends on the assay method used. I was at 4.9 in 2001 > before my pregnancy but then it rose during that time. I believe now that > it was due to my increased need for iodine and not the pregnancy hormones > as they told me it was. Pregnancy hormones are supposed to raise Tg as > well but I have never found that scientific data. I think it is the only > thing that they could figure was logical. > > For Iodine deficiency after a ThyCa dx I can't say that there is a > correlation as most Dr's believe it to be tied to cancer when the Tg > increases but now I am finding that it is tied to deficiency in iodine. I > know that Dr. Brownstein understands this effect but doubt that many > Endo's who are treating ThyCa patients do. I am seeing this though as my > Tg is going down the more iodine I get into my body. > > I never had my Tg measured as a " normal " person so I am not sure of the > range. I did find the following that may help give you an indication of a > correlation to low iodine. Laboratory Range is 2.5 - 47 ( approx > depending on assay again). > > > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=3\ 941162 & dopt=Abstract > > http://www.emro.who.int/Publications/EMHJ/1006/PDF/21%20Urinary%20iodine%20and%2\ 0other.pdf > > http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BCUWAK/103-1980540-4680613?v=glance & n=55144\ 0 > http://www.thyroid.org/patients/notes/march05/05_03_20.html > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 8, 2006 Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 I'm still trying to sort out all these different tests and how to interpret them. Here is a brief quote from Dr Rind on some of these tests. Apparently, the Anti-Tg antibody test is called ATA and is found in 70% of the cases of Hashi's. "Antibodies: Autoimmune thyroid disease falls into two main categories: Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis and Grave’s Disease. "Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis is typically identified by checking antibodies that attack the thyroid tissue. We find Antithyroglobulin Antibody (ATA) in 70% of the cases and Antimicrosomal Antibodies or Thyroid PerOxidase (TPO) antibodies are found in 95% of the cases. "Grave’s Disease is typically diagnosed using Thyroid-Stimulating Immunoglobulin (TSI), Long Acting Thyroid Stimulator (LATS) and TSH-Binding Inhibiting Immunoglobulin (TBII)" http://www.drrind.com/thyroidscale.asp Here is a place where you can get the tests for ATA (TGab) and TPOab. They also have the other antibody tests mentioned above. Anti-Thyroid Antibodies at HealthCheckUSA $60 + 12 (shipping and handling) = $72 Thyroglobulin Antibodies and Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies https://www.healthcheckusa.com/testdetails.asp?productid=54 Zoe So Tg must be a different thing than anti-Tg, which is one of the Hashi's antibodies, right?-- prr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 8, 2006 Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 Thanks, . Zoe Anti-TPO ?Diagnosis for auto-immune thyroid disease Anti-Tg ?Anti-Tg testing is primarily used, together with serum Tg measurement, inpatients with differentiated thyroid carcinoma http://www.abbottdiagnostics.com/Reagents_Tests/pdf/anti_tg_spec_sheet.pdf--- Ross <p_r_ross@...> wrote:> So Tg must be a different thing than anti-Tg, which is one of the Hashi's> antibodies, right?> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 The Dr told you to pick up a bottle of 50 mg of Iodoral? I received a bottle of Indoral today and it is only 5 mg per tablet and 180 tablets cost $40.00 from Willner Chemists. Where do you get 50 mg tablets? Regards H. > > > At my last appointment with Dr. Brownstein we discussed that if my Tg > > (thyroglobulin) numbers did not come down that he would increase my dose form > > 50 mg Iodoral to 62.5 mg. He told me to pick up a bottle of 50 mg Iodoral so > > that I would only have to take 2 tablets instead of 5. Well my Tg went down > > so we are holding at 50 mg but now I am out of the 12.5 mg tablets. So today > > I started taking the 50 mg pills. I took one this morning and now my mouth > > is watering so bad and my neck feels prickly. I don't think my body likes > > this dose all at once. I am thinking that I will be taking my pill splitter > > out and cutting them in two. > > > > Anyone else taking 1 - 50 mg tablet? I feel like I am going to drool all > > over the place if not paying attention. > > > > Buist > > We become silent - The last days of health freedom > > WATCH IT: http://tinyurl.com/g65on > > > __________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 I get Iodoral from Willner Chemists. Each tab contains 12.5mg iodine/iodide and I am taking 4 tabs per day.=50mg. but they do make a 50mg tab. I think you should re-read the label. GraciaThe Dr told you to pick up a bottle of 50 mg of Iodoral? I received a bottle of Indoral today and it is only 5 mg per tablet and 180 tablets cost $40.00 from Willner Chemists. Where do you get 50 mg tablets?Regards H. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.6.0/342 - Release Date: 5/17/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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