Re: Follow Up on the Constipation and Iodoral problem

[Guest guest]

That sure sounds to me like a good reason to use Lugol's.

Alobar

On 7/13/06, Lynne234923@... <Lynne234923@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> I spoke to Hakala, the pharmacist who co-invented the Iodoral

formulation with Dr. Abraham. This is my report.

>

> Apparently, there is no way to leave out (potentially constipating) silica in

a compounded version of Iodoral.

>

> Because the iodine can " sublimize, " that is, go from a solid form to a gas

form without silica.

>

> In effect, the iodine/iodide part of the formulation essentially evaporates

without silica in a tablet or capsule.

>

> Lynne

>

>

[Guest guest]

Lynne, thank you very much for following through on this one with Hakala!!!

You did a great piece of detective work in identifying a probably cause of the constipation several people have reported with Iodoral!!!

I hope you will also mention this to Dr Abraham. When I asked Dr Abraham about the constipation problem some months ago, he said that could not be due to the Iodoral since iodine has a normalizing effect on the intestines. He probably was not thinking about the possible effect of the silica.

Zoe

I spoke to Hakala, the pharmacist who co-invented the Iodoral formulation with Dr. Abraham. This is my report.

Apparently, there is no way to leave out (potentially constipating) silica in a compounded version of Iodoral.

Because the iodine can "sublimize," that is, go from a solid form to a gas form without silica.

In effect, the iodine/iodide part of the formulation essentially evaporates without silica in a tablet or capsule.

Lynne

[Guest guest]

Lynne,

Could you give us the source where you found your information on silica causing constipation?

I've been googling "constipation" and "silica" and haven't found much except the homeopathic stuff and the following quote:

"The presence of sufficient Silica in the intestines will reduce inflammation of the intestinal tract. It can cause disinfection and absorption in cases of stomach and intestinal catarrh and ulcers. Silica can prevent or clear up diarrhea and its opposite, constipation."

http://home.mindspring.com/~vaughn/MPS.fldr/silca_and_health.htm

This quote makes it sounds like silica would be good for the intestines, and help normalize both diarrhea and constipation.

Thanks.

Zoe

I spoke to Hakala, the pharmacist who co-invented the Iodoral formulation with Dr. Abraham. This is my report.

Apparently, there is no way to leave out (potentially constipating) silica in a compounded version of Iodoral.

Because the iodine can "sublimize," that is, go from a solid form to a gas form without silica.

In effect, the iodine/iodide part of the formulation essentially evaporates without silica in a tablet or capsule.

Lynne

[Guest guest]

Zoe,

I'm not very sophisticated in homeopathy but I think one of the strategies is that they often using opposites such as taking the arsenic formulation as a remedy for poisoning, etc.

As far as the silica as a "constipator" in some people, I found it before the Fourth of July and as I remember was in some drug side effects database. I must have sent the quote without the source. There are differently derived silcas as per your link below. I remember reading that silica in question was a kind of rock.

I'm sorry I won't have the time to retrace this detective story right now and I apologize for not sourcing this from the original find. But I'm sure the "causes constipation in some people" will turn up.

Lynne

http://home.mindspring.com/~vaughn/MPS.fldr/silca_and_health.htm

"Finding the right Silica may be confusing at times. Make sure that the vegetal Silica you use is 100 percent pure aqueous extract. Be sure that it is from spring horsetail (Equisetum arvense). Only vegetal Silica prepared by Professor Kervran's method provides pure and safe extract. "

[Guest guest]

Homeopathy "like cures like", what causes symptoms, when prepared homeopathically will cure those symptoms. Homeopathic Silica is highly indicated for abscesses and "expelling" things. So someone with metal plates, rods, screws ,etc. should NOT ever take Homeopathic Silica.

Best, Handcrafted Jewelry ~ http://www.ChestnutHillDesigns.comCurly Horse Rescue ~ http://www.CurlyRescue.com

~If you can stay calm, while all around you is chaos...then you probably haven't completely understood the situation.~~Flashlights are tubular metal containers for thepurpose of storing dead batteries.~

Re: Follow Up on the Constipation and Iodoral problem

Zoe,

I'm not very sophisticated in homeopathy but I think one of the strategies is that they often using opposites such as taking the arsenic formulation as a remedy for poisoning, etc.

As far as the silica as a "constipator" in some people, I found it before the Fourth of July and as I remember was in some drug side effects database. I must have sent the quote without the source. There are differently derived silcas as per your link below. I remember reading that silica in question was a kind of rock.

I'm sorry I won't have the time to retrace this detective story right now and I apologize for not sourcing this from the original find. But I'm sure the "causes constipation in some people" will turn up.

Lynne

http://home.mindspring.com/~vaughn/MPS.fldr/silca_and_health.htm

"Finding the right Silica may be confusing at times. Make sure that the vegetal Silica you use is 100 percent pure aqueous extract. Be sure that it is from spring horsetail (Equisetum arvense). Only vegetal Silica prepared by Professor Kervran's method provides pure and safe extract. "

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[Guest guest]

It concerns me that Dr. Abraham says constipation CANNOT be due to

iodine. Based on my personal experience, I've had digestive problems

from every form of iodine I've tried including just painting

tincture of iodine. Clearly for my one body, constipation CAN BE

caused by iodine.

Perhaps iodine does have a normalizing effect on the intestines

themselves, but I wonder what effect it has on the bacteria that

live in the intestines. I know others on this list have wondered the

same in previous posts. I also recall reading that in past decades

people were purported to use iodine for intestinal and bladder

infections, with apparently good results. This seems to suggest that

iodine can kill bacteria in the body, including the intestines.

Could a bacteria kill-off be the mechanism for the constipation that

people are reporting?

Sharon

> I hope you will also mention this to Dr Abraham. When I asked Dr

Abraham about the constipation problem some months ago, he said that

could not be due to the Iodoral since iodine has a normalizing

effect on the intestines.

[Guest guest]

hypo symptoms occur during the healing process with iodine, old symptoms reappear, but they definately resolve. I found it not all that easy to use iodine but definately worth it.

gracia

It concerns me that Dr. Abraham says constipation CANNOT be due to iodine. Based on my personal experience, I've had digestive problems from every form of iodine I've tried including just painting tincture of iodine. Clearly for my one body, constipation CAN BE caused by iodine. Perhaps iodine does have a normalizing effect on the intestines themselves, but I wonder what effect it has on the bacteria that live in the intestines. I know others on this list have wondered the same in previous posts. I also recall reading that in past decades people were purported to use iodine for intestinal and bladder infections, with apparently good results. This seems to suggest that iodine can kill bacteria in the body, including the intestines. Could a bacteria kill-off be the mechanism for the constipation that people are reporting? Sharon> I hope you will also mention this to Dr Abraham. When I asked Dr Abraham about the constipation problem some months ago, he said that could not be due to the Iodoral since iodine has a normalizing effect on the intestines.

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[Guest guest]

My bowels seem to be normalizing although as long as I take iodoral

they aren't as regular as with lugols. But since lugols in easy and

cheap that's really no big deal. I'm now only doing 1 iodoral a day

and the rest of my iodine is in drops or painting.

I don't think the silica binder is the problem now that ive given it

more thought. It's in other supplements I use and I don't have this

problem with them. I really wonder if some people's gut bacteria is

able to bounce back faster than others???? Really don't know why it

affects some of us more than others. There even may be adaptations

going on in the bacteria that allow it to tolerate more iodine. It's

all a BIG question.

Also could be as Gracia said a return of some hyposymptoms while the

iodine kick starts the thyroid. Although...for me I didn't have any

other signs of low thyroid..no tiredness except constipation.

Lynn

[Guest guest]

As I remember, Dr Kessler said that I2 cannot affect the bacteria in the intestines. I2 works as a disinfectant only in certain pH conditions, and the intestines has the wrong conditions. There is only one other form of iodine (I can't remember what it is at the moment) that can operate as a disinfectant.

Since he is an expert in biochemistry and in iodine disinfectants, I am inclined to believe him. However, as he always acknowledges, you can never be absolutely sure of anything based on in vitro studies. It must be tested in the body, under all the various complexities actually found in the body.

Zoe

It concerns me that Dr. Abraham says constipation CANNOT be due to iodine. Based on my personal experience, I've had digestive problems from every form of iodine I've tried including just painting tincture of iodine. Clearly for my one body, constipation CAN BE caused by iodine. Perhaps iodine does have a normalizing effect on the intestines themselves, but I wonder what effect it has on the bacteria that live in the intestines. I know others on this list have wondered the same in previous posts. I also recall reading that in past decades people were purported to use iodine for intestinal and bladder infections, with apparently good results. This seems to suggest that iodine can kill bacteria in the body, including the intestines. Could a bacteria kill-off be the mechanism for the constipation that people are reporting? Sharon

[Guest guest]

--- sharflin <sharflin@...> wrote:

> It concerns me that Dr. Abraham says constipation

> CANNOT be due to

> iodine.

Just got back from my doctor's office. He agrees.

It's really strange out here in the Twilight Zone

where men in white jackets tell me that what is

happening to me could not be, but I am used to

that...at least now I'm not alone out here...

Abbe

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I think a blanket statement that Iodine cannot cause constipation is

misleading. If Iodine causes a release of toxins this may theoretically cause

dehydration related constipation.

Also since Abrahms and Brownstein both suggest high levels of magnesium

supplementing during Iodine dosing this indicates it causes magnesium

depletion. One of the number one symptoms of magnesium deficiency is

constipation.

--- Abbe <abbe_online@...> wrote:

>

>

> --- sharflin <sharflin@...> wrote:

>

> > It concerns me that Dr. Abraham says constipation

> > CANNOT be due to

> > iodine.

>

> Just got back from my doctor's office. He agrees.

>

> It's really strange out here in the Twilight Zone

> where men in white jackets tell me that what is

> happening to me could not be, but I am used to

> that...at least now I'm not alone out here...

>

>

>

>

> Abbe

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

I have been taking half of an Iodoral tablet for 5 days now. For the last 2

days I have had severe constipation, and I think it's because of the

Iodoral.

I don't have a thyroid due to congenital misdevelopment, so the iodoral is

not kick starting my thyroid. I don't have thyroid antibodies. I am on 4.5

grain dessicated thyroid and 15 mg. hydrocortisone. I have a glass of raw

goat's milk kefir and a lot of other supplements every day. I haven't been

constipated like this since I started increasing my thyroid from 2 grains

over a year ago.

So why else is the constipation happening, if it's not the iodoral?

Lynn

> --- sharflin <sharflin@...> wrote:

> > It concerns me that Dr. Abraham says constipation

> > CANNOT be due to

> > iodine.

>

> Just got back from my doctor's office. He agrees.

>

> It's really strange out here in the Twilight Zone

> where men in white jackets tell me that what is

> happening to me could not be, but I am used to

> that...at least now I'm not alone out here...

> Abbe

[Guest guest]

why take the low dose Iodoral, why not 50mg? Also I think 20mg HC works much better.

Gracia

I have been taking half of an Iodoral tablet for 5 days now. For the last 2days I have had severe constipation, and I think it's because of theIodoral.I don't have a thyroid due to congenital misdevelopment, so the iodoral isnot kick starting my thyroid. I don't have thyroid antibodies. I am on 4.5grain dessicated thyroid and 15 mg. hydrocortisone. I have a glass of rawgoat's milk kefir and a lot of other supplements every day. I haven't beenconstipated like this since I started increasing my thyroid from 2 grainsover a year ago.So why else is the constipation happening, if it's not the iodoral?Lynn> --- sharflin <sharflincomcast (DOT) net> wrote:> > It concerns me that Dr. Abraham says constipation> > CANNOT be due to> > iodine.>> Just got back from my doctor's office. He agrees.>> It's really strange out here in the Twilight Zone> where men in white jackets tell me that what is> happening to me could not be, but I am used to> that...at least now I'm not alone out here...> Abbe

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[Guest guest]

From what I've been reading, it sounded more prudent to slowly increase iodine/iodide supplementation, because there might be fewer side effects that way. I've also been consuming over a tablespoon of kelp a day for 2 years, which gives me 5.6 mg. of iodine in addition to what's in the iodoral. Since people are posting about problems, I'm not sure yet about going up higher.

I've been on hydrocortisone about 6 weeks and had built up to 20 mg. I dropped down to 15 mg. 3 days ago because I'm waiting for my mail-order HC Rx to come and I'm running low. Do you think that drop could have caused constipation? That and a small drop in temperature are the only differences I've seen. I was thinking about just continuing on at 15 mg, because newer research supposedly shows the total cortisol output in healthy adrenals is only 20-25 mg., less than previously thought.

My AAL test showed I was below range in cortisols and very low in range in cortisones. When I first started HC, starting at 2.5 mg. and increasing by 2.5 mg each day until I got to 10 mg., my hypo symptoms came back with a vengeance. Extreme achiness, needed to nap, temperature dropped, got constipated, hair loss. I bumped the HC up to 20 mg., and then found I needed to add 1/2 grain dessicated thyroid for all that to go away. Since adding HC seemed to make me use up thyroid faster, I didn't think dropping it 5 mg. would make me go more hypo. Thus I suspect the iodoral. I take 1266 mg calcium (MCHC) and 860 mg. magnesium chelate & citrate/day, so I don't think I'm low in magnesium.

Lynn

why take the low dose Iodoral, why not 50mg? Also I think 20mg HC works much better.

Gracia

I have been taking half of an Iodoral tablet for 5 days now. For the last 2days I have had severe constipation, and I think it's because of theIodoral.I don't have a thyroid due to congenital misdevelopment, so the iodoral isnot kick starting my thyroid. I don't have thyroid antibodies. I am on 4.5grain dessicated thyroid and 15 mg. hydrocortisone. I have a glass of rawgoat's milk kefir and a lot of other supplements every day. I haven't beenconstipated like this since I started increasing my thyroid from 2 grainsover a year ago.So why else is the constipation happening, if it's not the iodoral?Lynn

[Guest guest]

I keep wondering what indirect effects the Iodoral might have that could affect constipation.

For example, could excess bromide or fluoride be ending up in the intestines and causing constipation? Does anyone know the effects of the other halogens on the intestines?

Zoe

I have been taking half of an Iodoral tablet for 5 days now. For the last 2days I have had severe constipation, and I think it's because of theIodoral.I don't have a thyroid due to congenital misdevelopment, so the iodoral isnot kick starting my thyroid. I don't have thyroid antibodies. I am on 4.5grain dessicated thyroid and 15 mg. hydrocortisone. I have a glass of rawgoat's milk kefir and a lot of other supplements every day. I haven't beenconstipated like this since I started increasing my thyroid from 2 grainsover a year ago.So why else is the constipation happening, if it's not the iodoral?Lynn

[Guest guest]

: "If Iodine causes a release of toxins this may theoretically cause dehydration related constipation."

, could you say more about this??? Zoe

I think a blanket statement that Iodine cannot cause constipation ismisleading. If Iodine causes a release of toxins this may theoretically causedehydration related constipation.Also since Abrahms and Brownstein both suggest high levels of magnesiumsupplementing during Iodine dosing this indicates it causes magnesiumdepletion. One of the number one symptoms of magnesium deficiency isconstipation.

[Guest guest]

That is a lot of calcium to take if you also eat dairy. You can get too much

Calcium. Calcium is known to constipate some people in high dosages. High

calcium depletes magnesium also. The mixture of magnesium you are taking is

not the most absorbable forms. I would not rule out mag issues.

--- Lynn McGaha <lmcgaha@...> wrote:

> From what I've been reading, it sounded more prudent to slowly increase

> iodine/iodide supplementation, because there might be fewer side effects that

> way. I've also been consuming over a tablespoon of kelp a day for 2 years,

> which gives me 5.6 mg. of iodine in addition to what's in the iodoral. Since

> people are posting about problems, I'm not sure yet about going up higher.

>

> I've been on hydrocortisone about 6 weeks and had built up to 20 mg. I

> dropped down to 15 mg. 3 days ago because I'm waiting for my mail-order HC Rx

> to come and I'm running low. Do you think that drop could have caused

> constipation? That and a small drop in temperature are the only differences

> I've seen. I was thinking about just continuing on at 15 mg, because newer

> research supposedly shows the total cortisol output in healthy adrenals is

> only 20-25 mg., less than previously thought.

>

> My AAL test showed I was below range in cortisols and very low in range in

> cortisones. When I first started HC, starting at 2.5 mg. and increasing by

> 2.5 mg each day until I got to 10 mg., my hypo symptoms came back with a

> vengeance. Extreme achiness, needed to nap, temperature dropped, got

> constipated, hair loss. I bumped the HC up to 20 mg., and then found I

> needed to add 1/2 grain dessicated thyroid for all that to go away. Since

> adding HC seemed to make me use up thyroid faster, I didn't think dropping it

> 5 mg. would make me go more hypo. Thus I suspect the iodoral. I take 1266

> mg calcium (MCHC) and 860 mg. magnesium chelate & citrate/day, so I don't

> think I'm low in magnesium.

> Lynn

>

>

> why take the low dose Iodoral, why not 50mg? Also I think 20mg HC works

> much better.

> Gracia

>

> I have been taking half of an Iodoral tablet for 5 days now. For the last

> 2

> days I have had severe constipation, and I think it's because of the

> Iodoral.

>

> I don't have a thyroid due to congenital misdevelopment, so the iodoral

> is

> not kick starting my thyroid. I don't have thyroid antibodies. I am on

> 4.5

> grain dessicated thyroid and 15 mg. hydrocortisone. I have a glass of raw

> goat's milk kefir and a lot of other supplements every day. I haven't

> been

> constipated like this since I started increasing my thyroid from 2 grains

> over a year ago.

>

> So why else is the constipation happening, if it's not the iodoral?

>

> Lynn

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

>From: " Zoe & " <ZOEA@...>

>I keep wondering what indirect effects the Iodoral might have that could

>affect constipation.

mentioned magnesium intake was necessary with iodine loading. If

iodine depletes magnesium, that would explain it.

It could depend on how it affects the cortisol level. I think more cortisol

is put out when toxins are released. So, the release of mercury, etc. could

trigger cortisol production. Cortisol is known to deplete magnesium.

Skipper

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

> I've not heard that about cortisol output.

The person that posted that on the Natural Thyroid Hormones group is someone

whose knowledge I highly respect, who has struggled mightily with her own

adrenal issues the last couple years, and researches these issues. I'll try

to get some links from her.

> The other thing is I doubt that

> taking 20 mg a day, is going to give you as much as your own adrenals

> producing 20 mg as there would be absorption issues.

Excellent point.

> Jeffries in " Safe Uses of Cortisol " claimed his suggested dosage

of

> 5 mg 4 times per day would not suppress the HPA axis.

I haven't read Jeffries' book but I have read Dr. 's Adrenal

Fatigue, and also Dr. Peatfield's material, and I am aware they all say 5 mg

QID doesn't cause suppression. Some people on NTH feel they did have

adrenal suppression at that dose.

> Since my ACTH has

> been high at times in spite of taking HC, I believe that to be true. If

> your pituitary is producing ACTH, then it's asking for more cortisol from

> your adrenals, and there is no adrenal shut down. (Which seems to imply

> that if you're on HC, and your ACTH is tested, and you are producing an

> amount in the normal range that your adrenals are not being suppressed.)

I think all that tells you is that the pituitary has not been suppressed.

> Seems like I needed more Armour when I went on HC also.

Good to know that.

> If you get either too little or too much cortisol, the thyroid isn't going

> to work as well. Too little cortisol, the body simply excretes T4 instead

> of turning it into active T3. Too much cortisol and it turns too much T4

> into inactive rT3.

In my case, before starting on HC, my FT3 was 7.1 (top of range is 4.2) and

my T4 was 12.4 (top of range is 12.0), with no hyper symptoms. So I think

my T3 and T4 were just staying in the blood and not getting taken up by the

thyroid hormone receptors. I would definitely be in the low cortisol

category, and my lab test showed plenty of T3.

> It seems as though calcium can cause constipation if I remember. Do you

get

> a lot of sunshine with that, or at least a Vitamin D supplement so you can

> utilize that calcium?

I get 2000 mg. Vit D from Blue Ice cod liver oil. But I've been on that

amount of supplemental calcium for 1 1/2 yrs. with no constipation, so I

don't think that's the problem.

> Also, I assume you know the minerals, like iron, calcium, magnesium, zinc

> all interfere with the aborption of thyroid meds and should be taken as

far

> away from the thyroid dosage as possible.

>

> Skipper

I take my thyroid sublingually 4 times a day, before meals and at bedtime,

and my supplements 3 times a day, after meals. One benefit of taking it

sublingually is that

there's not supposed to be any interference from whatever goes in your

stomach, so the usual timing constraints of taking other supplements is no

longer an issue.

Lynn

[Guest guest]

Well I might go back on DHEA then, because it was way below range. I thought it might have been responsible for my breast tenderness, which did improve after I stopped the DHEA. But that's back now, so I suspect my bioidentical topical hormone cream needs to be reformulated. That's one reason I started on iodine, because if I had fibrocystic disease 17 years ago, I probably still have it now. Just one more reason to go up to 50 mg.of iodine, eh?

I was on 4 grain dessicated thyroid before I started HC, and added 1/2 grain, so I'm now taking 4.5 grain thyroid.

Today, no constipation, good output. Maybe I was just going through a transitory stage, hopefully.

Lynn

My experience with cortisol is that 15mg made me ill---20mg made everything right. I really don't know about current reseach but I know that Jefferies' recommendations work. Also according to Hertoghe MD you should always take DHEA with cortisol.

The same thing happened to me with lower doses of Iodoral. It was just confusing and frustrating so I went right to 50mg. What helped me is the package insert which said that most peeps do best on 50mg.

Also I am thinking that increased Armour might be helpful for hypo symptoms. Really you do not have a thyroid gland and are on 30mg Armour???? You should be on much much more..

Gracia

From what I've been reading, it sounded more prudent to slowly increase iodine/iodide supplementation, because there might be fewer side effects that way. I've also been consuming over a tablespoon of kelp a day for 2 years, which gives me 5.6 mg. of iodine in addition to what's in the iodoral. Since people are posting about problems, I'm not sure yet about going up higher.

I've been on hydrocortisone about 6 weeks and had built up to 20 mg. I dropped down to 15 mg. 3 days ago because I'm waiting for my mail-order HC Rx to come and I'm running low. Do you think that drop could have caused constipation? That and a small drop in temperature are the only differences I've seen. I was thinking about just continuing on at 15 mg, because newer research supposedly shows the total cortisol output in healthy adrenals is only 20-25 mg., less than previously thought.

My AAL test showed I was below range in cortisols and very low in range in cortisones. When I first started HC, starting at 2.5 mg. and increasing by 2.5 mg each day until I got to 10 mg., my hypo symptoms came back with a vengeance. Extreme achiness, needed to nap, temperature dropped, got constipated, hair loss. I bumped the HC up to 20 mg., and then found I needed to add 1/2 grain dessicated thyroid for all that to go away. Since adding HC seemed to make me use up thyroid faster, I didn't think dropping it 5 mg. would make me go more hypo. Thus I suspect the iodoral. I take 1266 mg calcium (MCHC) and 860 mg. magnesium chelate & citrate/day, so I don't think I'm low in magnesium.

Lynn

why take the low dose Iodoral, why not 50mg? Also I think 20mg HC works much better.

Gracia

I have been taking half of an Iodoral tablet for 5 days now. For the last 2days I have had severe constipation, and I think it's because of theIodoral.I don't have a thyroid due to congenital misdevelopment, so the iodoral isnot kick starting my thyroid. I don't have thyroid antibodies. I am on 4.5grain dessicated thyroid and 15 mg. hydrocortisone. I have a glass of rawgoat's milk kefir and a lot of other supplements every day. I haven't beenconstipated like this since I started increasing my thyroid from 2 grainsover a year ago.So why else is the constipation happening, if it's not the iodoral?Lynn

[Guest guest]

> That is a lot of calcium to take if you also eat dairy. You can get too

much

> Calcium. Calcium is known to constipate some people in high dosages. High

> calcium depletes magnesium also. The mixture of magnesium you are taking

is

> not the most absorbable forms. I would not rule out mag issues.

From http://www.mamashealth.com/nutrition/womcal.asp: " The National

Institute of Health recommends that, in addition to a healthy diet, adult

women have a daily supplemental calcium intake of 1000 to 1200 mg before

menopause and 1300 to 1500 mg after menopause. "

The supplements I am taking contain 1000 mg. elemental calcium, from

microcrystalline calcium hydroxyapatite complex and calcium citrate, and 266

mg. calcium from calcium carbonate, for a total of 1266 mg. calcium. They

contain 860 mg. magnesium from magnesium hydrolyzed rice protein chelate &

Mg citrate. I'm surprised that you say these are not the most absorbable

forms, since I've read that chelated magnesium and magnesium citrate are

some of the better forms of magnesium.

I drink one cup of kefir per day, which contains around 300 mg. calcium. So

I am well within the NIH recommendation for calcium, and most other

guidelines say to get around 1200 mg. of supplemental calcium, in addition

to the diet. Do you have sources for a lower recommendation? I've been on

these particular supplements for 1 1/2 yrs, and constipation was not an

issue previously. Are you of the opinion that iodine increases the need for

magnesium?

Lynn

[Guest guest]

Lynn I really like the 7-keto DHEA from NOW, it feels stronger to me than the regular stuff. But also I use LOTS of estradiol, progesterone, testosterone. I am back up to 50mg Iodoral again, someday maybe I will do that loading test. I am on 4 grains Armour with half a thyroid gland.

Gracia

Well I might go back on DHEA then, because it was way below range. I thought it might have been responsible for my breast tenderness, which did improve after I stopped the DHEA. But that's back now, so I suspect my bioidentical topical hormone cream needs to be reformulated. That's one reason I started on iodine, because if I had fibrocystic disease 17 years ago, I probably still have it now. Just one more reason to go up to 50 mg.of iodine, eh?

I was on 4 grain dessicated thyroid before I started HC, and added 1/2 grain, so I'm now taking 4.5 grain thyroid.

Today, no constipation, good output. Maybe I was just going through a transitory stage, hopefully.

Lynn

My experience with cortisol is that 15mg made me ill---20mg made everything right. I really don't know about current reseach but I know that Jefferies' recommendations work. Also according to Hertoghe MD you should always take DHEA with cortisol.

The same thing happened to me with lower doses of Iodoral. It was just confusing and frustrating so I went right to 50mg. What helped me is the package insert which said that most peeps do best on 50mg.

Also I am thinking that increased Armour might be helpful for hypo symptoms. Really you do not have a thyroid gland and are on 30mg Armour???? You should be on much much more..

Gracia

From what I've been reading, it sounded more prudent to slowly increase iodine/iodide supplementation, because there might be fewer side effects that way. I've also been consuming over a tablespoon of kelp a day for 2 years, which gives me 5.6 mg. of iodine in addition to what's in the iodoral. Since people are posting about problems, I'm not sure yet about going up higher.

I've been on hydrocortisone about 6 weeks and had built up to 20 mg. I dropped down to 15 mg. 3 days ago because I'm waiting for my mail-order HC Rx to come and I'm running low. Do you think that drop could have caused constipation? That and a small drop in temperature are the only differences I've seen. I was thinking about just continuing on at 15 mg, because newer research supposedly shows the total cortisol output in healthy adrenals is only 20-25 mg., less than previously thought.

My AAL test showed I was below range in cortisols and very low in range in cortisones. When I first started HC, starting at 2.5 mg. and increasing by 2.5 mg each day until I got to 10 mg., my hypo symptoms came back with a vengeance. Extreme achiness, needed to nap, temperature dropped, got constipated, hair loss. I bumped the HC up to 20 mg., and then found I needed to add 1/2 grain dessicated thyroid for all that to go away. Since adding HC seemed to make me use up thyroid faster, I didn't think dropping it 5 mg. would make me go more hypo. Thus I suspect the iodoral. I take 1266 mg calcium (MCHC) and 860 mg. magnesium chelate & citrate/day, so I don't think I'm low in magnesium.

Lynn

why take the low dose Iodoral, why not 50mg? Also I think 20mg HC works much better.

Gracia

I have been taking half of an Iodoral tablet for 5 days now. For the last 2days I have had severe constipation, and I think it's because of theIodoral.I don't have a thyroid due to congenital misdevelopment, so the iodoral isnot kick starting my thyroid. I don't have thyroid antibodies. I am on 4.5grain dessicated thyroid and 15 mg. hydrocortisone. I have a glass of rawgoat's milk kefir and a lot of other supplements every day. I haven't beenconstipated like this since I started increasing my thyroid from 2 grainsover a year ago.So why else is the constipation happening, if it's not the iodoral?Lynn

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I wonder who you are talking about, but never mind. I left the NTH group b/c when I first discovered cortef, NO ONE there wanted to hear about it. And since then I have encountered some erroneous info from there.

gracia

> I've not heard that about cortisol output.The person that posted that on the Natural Thyroid Hormones group is someonewhose knowledge I highly respect, who has struggled mightily with her ownadrenal issues the last couple years, and researches these issues. I'll tryto get some links from her.> The other thing is I doubt that> taking 20 mg a day, is going to give you as much as your own adrenals> producing 20 mg as there would be absorption issues.Excellent point.> Jeffries in "Safe Uses of Cortisol" claimed his suggested dosageof> 5 mg 4 times per day would not suppress the HPA axis.I haven't read Jeffries' book but I have read Dr. 's AdrenalFatigue, and also Dr. Peatfield's material, and I am aware they all say 5 mgQID doesn't cause suppression. Some people on NTH feel they did haveadrenal suppression at that dose.> Since my ACTH has> been high at times in spite of taking HC, I believe that to be true. If> your pituitary is producing ACTH, then it's asking for more cortisol from> your adrenals, and there is no adrenal shut down. (Which seems to imply> that if you're on HC, and your ACTH is tested, and you are producing an> amount in the normal range that your adrenals are not being suppressed.)I think all that tells you is that the pituitary has not been suppressed.> Seems like I needed more Armour when I went on HC also.Good to know that.> If you get either too little or too much cortisol, the thyroid isn't going> to work as well. Too little cortisol, the body simply excretes T4 instead> of turning it into active T3. Too much cortisol and it turns too much T4> into inactive rT3.In my case, before starting on HC, my FT3 was 7.1 (top of range is 4.2) andmy T4 was 12.4 (top of range is 12.0), with no hyper symptoms. So I thinkmy T3 and T4 were just staying in the blood and not getting taken up by thethyroid hormone receptors. I would definitely be in the low cortisolcategory, and my lab test showed plenty of T3.> It seems as though calcium can cause constipation if I remember. Do youget> a lot of sunshine with that, or at least a Vitamin D supplement so you can> utilize that calcium?I get 2000 mg. Vit D from Blue Ice cod liver oil. But I've been on thatamount of supplemental calcium for 1 1/2 yrs. with no constipation, so Idon't think that's the problem.> Also, I assume you know the minerals, like iron, calcium, magnesium, zinc> all interfere with the aborption of thyroid meds and should be taken asfar> away from the thyroid dosage as possible.>> SkipperI take my thyroid sublingually 4 times a day, before meals and at bedtime,and my supplements 3 times a day, after meals. One benefit of taking itsublingually is thatthere's not supposed to be any interference from whatever goes in yourstomach, so the usual timing constraints of taking other supplements is nolonger an issue.Lynn

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Tish. Cortef gets advocated a lot on NTH now. I've been on NTH for 3 years, and it's always been encouraged for people with adrenal insufficiency, although probably even more so now. Times have a changed. I've had issues about a few things there that no one seemed to want to hear what I was saying, but eventually I'm seeing some minds open up a little on those issues.

I suppose what you would disagree with now is the idea that if you can go an hour beyond the time of your usual HC dose and not get shaky, that you might look at reducing your HC dosage.

Lynn

I wonder who you are talking about, but never mind. I left the NTH group b/c when I first discovered cortef, NO ONE there wanted to hear about it. And since then I have encountered some erroneous info from there.

gracia

> I've not heard that about cortisol output.The person that posted that on the Natural Thyroid Hormones group is someonewhose knowledge I highly respect, who has struggled mightily with her ownadrenal issues the last couple years, and researches these issues. I'll tryto get some links from her.> The other thing is I doubt that> taking 20 mg a day, is going to give you as much as your own adrenals> producing 20 mg as there would be absorption issues.Excellent point.> Jeffries in "Safe Uses of Cortisol" claimed his suggested dosageof> 5 mg 4 times per day would not suppress the HPA axis.I haven't read Jeffries' book but I have read Dr. 's AdrenalFatigue, and also Dr. Peatfield's material, and I am aware they all say 5 mgQID doesn't cause suppression. Some people on NTH feel they did haveadrenal suppression at that dose.> Since my ACTH has> been high at times in spite of taking HC, I believe that to be true. If> your pituitary is producing ACTH, then it's asking for more cortisol from> your adrenals, and there is no adrenal shut down. (Which seems to imply> that if you're on HC, and your ACTH is tested, and you are producing an> amount in the normal range that your adrenals are not being suppressed.)I think all that tells you is that the pituitary has not been suppressed.> Seems like I needed more Armour when I went on HC also.Good to know that.> If you get either too little or too much cortisol, the thyroid isn't going> to work as well. Too little cortisol, the body simply excretes T4 instead> of turning it into active T3. Too much cortisol and it turns too much T4> into inactive rT3.In my case, before starting on HC, my FT3 was 7.1 (top of range is 4.2) andmy T4 was 12.4 (top of range is 12.0), with no hyper symptoms. So I thinkmy T3 and T4 were just staying in the blood and not getting taken up by thethyroid hormone receptors. I would definitely be in the low cortisolcategory, and my lab test showed plenty of T3.> It seems as though calcium can cause constipation if I remember. Do youget> a lot of sunshine with that, or at least a Vitamin D supplement so you can> utilize that calcium?I get 2000 mg. Vit D from Blue Ice cod liver oil. But I've been on thatamount of supplemental calcium for 1 1/2 yrs. with no constipation, so Idon't think that's the problem.> Also, I assume you know the minerals, like iron, calcium, magnesium, zinc> all interfere with the aborption of thyroid meds and should be taken asfar> away from the thyroid dosage as possible.>> SkipperI take my thyroid sublingually 4 times a day, before meals and at bedtime,and my supplements 3 times a day, after meals. One benefit of taking itsublingually is thatthere's not supposed to be any interference from whatever goes in yourstomach, so the usual timing constraints of taking other supplements is nolonger an issue.Lynn

[Guest guest]

>From: " Lynn McGaha " <lmcgaha@...>

>I haven't read Jeffries' book but I have read Dr. 's Adrenal

>Fatigue, and also Dr. Peatfield's material, and I am aware they all say 5

>mg

>QID doesn't cause suppression. Some people on NTH feel they did have

>adrenal suppression at that dose.

Nobody talks about weight in regard to dosage. I don't know if that means

it doesn't matter. It could be I can take more than a 110 pound female

without having my adrenals suppressed.

>

>I think all that tells you is that the pituitary has not been suppressed.

When they talk of HC suppressing the adrenals, it means one is taking an

amount large enough the pituitary doesn't think the adrenals need to produce

any HC. So, that is the real concern.

The adrenals can be suppressed because they're weak and unable to function.

This is not the fear in giving HC. In that case, they simply are unable to

produce.

>I take my thyroid sublingually 4 times a day, before meals and at bedtime,

>and my supplements 3 times a day, after meals. One benefit of taking it

>sublingually is that

>there's not supposed to be any interference from whatever goes in your

>stomach, so the usual timing constraints of taking other supplements is no

>longer an issue.

Some things are formulated to take sublingually. When you take something

that way not formulated for it, I don't know whether they same statement is

true. Maybe I just don't understand sublingual well enough.

Skipper

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