Guest guest Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 , I did not know that "most mammals and birds do ok living inland, but humans don't." If this is true, it is probably due to a variable other than iodine. My impression is that even fish -- and certainly cattle, horses, dogs, cats, mice, pigs, and chickens -- need iodine. Venturi talks about iodine and evolution and suggests that the mechanisms for trapping iodine were essential in evolution of vertebrates. He is talking about ALL vertebrates -- not just humans. Here is one small related quote: "When some primitive marine vertebrates started to emerge from the iodine-rich sea and transferred to iodine-deficient fresh water, and finally land, their diet became iodine deficient and also harboured vegetable iodide-competitors such as nitrates, nitrites, thiocyanates, and some glycosides (12). Hence, these animals needed an efficient thyroid gland as reservoir of iodine." http://iodine4health.com/research/venturi_2000_environmental_iodine_deficiency.rtf Here is the page that links to several related Venturi articles: http://iodine4health.com/special/venturi_evolution.htm So unless you have some good evidence to the contrary, it seems to me that adequate iodine is important for all vertebrates. Zoe ----- Original Message ----- From: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 Hi all. I'm going to throw this out there and probably create a little controversy- completely not intended, but this is info that most people, unless they're Equine vets, probably don't know... Horses can live indefinitely without a thyroid gland. Does that mean that they don't need iodine? I suspect not, although it would make for an interesting question to my Vet researcher friends. Currently there is metabolic research at the University of Missouri Columbia vet college where several horses, several years ago, were completely thyroidectomized. How do they survive? No one is for sure, only that they do, and happily so. We have known this is possible for many, many years, yet my question is, how! How does this reflect upon our need for iodine, and all those other questions?? Yes, the horses are completely hypOthyroid, yet unlike other mammals, including humans, they do not go into myxedema coma and die. It will be very interesting to see what the research reveals. Too bad the purpose of the research is only for the sake of animals. I would think humans would be as well served... E (Ellen in Missouri) > > , I did not know that " most mammals and birds do ok living inland, but humans don't. " > > If this is true, it is probably due to a variable other than iodine. My impression is that even fish -- and certainly cattle, horses, dogs, cats, mice, pigs, and chickens -- need iodine. > > Venturi talks about iodine and evolution and suggests that the mechanisms for trapping iodine were essential in evolution of vertebrates. He is talking about ALL vertebrates -- not just humans. Here is one small related quote: > " When some primitive marine vertebrates started to emerge from the iodine-rich sea and transferred to iodine-deficient fresh water, and finally land, their diet became iodine deficient and also harboured vegetable iodide-competitors such as nitrates, nitrites, thiocyanates, and some glycosides (12). Hence, these animals needed an efficient thyroid gland as reservoir of iodine. " > http://iodine4health.com/research/venturi_2000_environmental_iodine_deficiency.r\ tf > Here is the page that links to several related Venturi articles: > http://iodine4health.com/special/venturi_evolution.htm > > So unless you have some good evidence to the contrary, it seems to me that adequate iodine is important for all vertebrates. > > Zoe > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 I have also heard that horses don’t deal with stress very well… That a bad scare can kill one (sort of like rabbits) or a severe chill after a run… Perhaps this is what has been traded off? Because isn’t the thyroid/adrenal system all about dealing with stresses such as these? ellen wrote: Horses can live indefinitely without a thyroid gland. Does that mean that they don't need iodine? I suspect not, although it would make for an interesting question to my Vet researcher friends. Currently there is metabolic research at the University of Missouri Columbia vet college where several horses, several years ago, were completely thyroidectomized. How do they survive? No one is for sure, only that they do, and happily so. We have known this is possible for many, many years, yet my question is, how! How does this reflect upon our need for iodine, and all those other questions?? Yes, the horses are completely hypOthyroid, yet unlike other mammals, including humans, they do not go into myxedema coma and die. It will be very interesting to see what the research reveals. Too bad the purpose of the research is only for the sake of animals. I would think humans would be as well served... E (Ellen in Missouri) > > , I did not know that " most mammals and birds do ok living inland, but humans don't. " > > If this is true, it is probably due to a variable other than iodine. My impression is that even fish -- and certainly cattle, horses, dogs, cats, mice, pigs, and chickens -- need iodine. > > Venturi talks about iodine and evolution and suggests that the mechanisms for trapping iodine were essential in evolution of vertebrates. He is talking about ALL vertebrates -- not just humans. Here is one small related quote: > " When some primitive marine vertebrates started to emerge from the iodine-rich sea and transferred to iodine-deficient fresh water, and finally land, their diet became iodine deficient and also harboured vegetable iodide-competitors such as nitrates, nitrites, thiocyanates, and some glycosides (12). Hence, these animals needed an efficient thyroid gland as reservoir of iodine. " > http://iodine4health.com/research/venturi_2000_environmental_iodine_deficiency.rtf > Here is the page that links to several related Venturi articles: > http://iodine4health.com/special/venturi_evolution.htm > > So unless you have some good evidence to the contrary, it seems to me that adequate iodine is important for all vertebrates. > > Zoe > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 My experience with farm animals would indicate that they do need iodine, but it's not nearly as critical to them as it is to people. Or they hoard it better. Mammals do get goiter ... but look at it this way: there were huge herds of bison, antelope, mice, rats, bats, wolves, bear, etc. living in the " goiter belt " of the US before people came. But you don't see reports of huge numbers of animals with goiter or hypothyroidism, even though the humans who moved there later had all kinds of problems with both. Humans really don't seem to survive well without a good iodine source, but most other animals can. I haven't actually seen this studied much except in farm animals, and farm animals are kind of over-bred and not fed their natural diet anyway. I live in an area that is very low iodine though, and I have yet to see a wild animal with goiter (or reports of any). Which is what got me thinking: why do WE need to get iodine supplementation, but our local wildlife doesn't? There are reports that the local Indians worked hard to get seaweed etc. as a food supplement, because they knew they needed it. But how did the local mountain goats get it? -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 OK, it has been studied. Most animals need less iodine AND they are better at retaining it: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=8104757 & dopt=Abstract1. Comparative aspects of iodine conservation in mammals were studied on the basis of published data on kidney and thyroid weights and function. 2. Very small mammals possessed an efficient reabsorption of iodide to compensate for the high glomerular filtration rate (GFR). 3. Humans and mammals of a similar and larger size had " lost " the ability to reabsorb iodide efficiently. 4. Very large mammals are protected against renal loss of iodide due to the relatively low GFR. 5. Thyroid weights in relation to body weight were highest in humans suggesting that humans and other mammals of a similar size are especially susceptible to iodine deficiency.==============It could also point to, say, other variables (like less efficient gut reabsorption due to our " modern " diet, or bromide/chlorine ingestion). Seems like goiter is more of a problem in farm animals than it is, say, in wild cattle ... but farm animals have been raised to grow faster and they aren't fed their native diet either. And are exposed to chemicals. Seems like some animals eat goitrogenic foods and then they get goiter also.Anyway, whatever is going on, it still seems to be a bigger problem for humans than other creatures ... -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 It also seems to be a bigger problem for certain blood types. We have quite a high rate of thyroid problems in the county where I live, and of the 11 people I personally know.. 9 of them are type O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 I would imagine the local wildlife gets trace amounts from the soil they graze in. Who knows how much of what part of this planet was underwater at any given time. We all know that having a "goiter" present isn't the only indication that you have a deficiency..and who would know if a wild animal were having other issues...kind of hard for average person to approach one, and they don't talk much either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 That is interesting, because I am type O neg. and have been hypoT from birth or even before birth; I had problems even as an infant. C. <<<<< Posted by: "Aprilcupcake@..." Aprilcupcake@... big405brat Mon Jan 8, 2007 5:32 am (PST) It also seems to be a bigger problem for certain blood types. We have quite a high rate of thyroid problems in the county where I live, and of the 11 people I personally know.. 9 of them are type O. >>>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 They also get Cushings much more than people...jingles > > I have also heard that horses don't deal with stress very well. That a bad > scare can kill one (sort of like rabbits) or a severe chill after a run. > Perhaps this is what has been traded off? Because isn't the thyroid/adrenal > system all about dealing with stresses such as these? > > ellen wrote: > Horses can live indefinitely without a thyroid gland. > > Does that mean that they don't need iodine? I suspect not, although > it would make for an interesting question to my Vet researcher friends. > > Currently there is metabolic research at the University of Missouri > Columbia vet college where several horses, several years ago, were > completely thyroidectomized. How do they survive? No one is for > sure, only that they do, and happily so. We have known this is > possible for many, many years, yet my question is, how! How does this > reflect upon our need for iodine, and all those other questions?? > Yes, the horses are completely hypOthyroid, yet unlike other mammals, > including humans, they do not go into myxedema coma and die. It will > be very interesting to see what the research reveals. Too bad the > purpose of the research is only for the sake of animals. I would > think humans would be as well served... > > E (Ellen in Missouri) > > > > > > , I did not know that " most mammals and birds do ok living > inland, but humans don't. " > > > > If this is true, it is probably due to a variable other than iodine. > My impression is that even fish -- and certainly cattle, horses, > dogs, cats, mice, pigs, and chickens -- need iodine. > > > > Venturi talks about iodine and evolution and suggests that the > mechanisms for trapping iodine were essential in evolution of > vertebrates. He is talking about ALL vertebrates -- not just humans. > Here is one small related quote: > > " When some primitive marine vertebrates started to emerge from the > iodine-rich sea and transferred to iodine-deficient fresh water, and > finally land, their diet became iodine deficient and also harboured > vegetable iodide-competitors such as nitrates, nitrites, thiocyanates, > and some glycosides (12). Hence, these animals needed an efficient > thyroid gland as reservoir of iodine. " > > > http://iodine4healt > <http://iodine4health.com/research/venturi_2000_environmental_iodine_ deficie > ncy.rtf> h.com/research/venturi_2000_environmental_iodine_deficiency.rtf > > Here is the page that links to several related Venturi articles: > > http://iodine4healt > <http://iodine4health.com/special/venturi_evolution.htm> > h.com/special/venturi_evolution.htm > > > > So unless you have some good evidence to the contrary, it seems to > me that adequate iodine is important for all vertebrates. > > > > Zoe > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 >From: " groupiestuff " <groupiestuff@...> >They also get Cushings much more than people...jingles Maybe vets are just more efficient at diagnosing certain issues. > > ellen wrote: > > Horses can live indefinitely without a thyroid gland. > > > > Does that mean that they don't need iodine? I suspect not, although > > it would make for an interesting question to my Vet researcher >friends. DC Jarvis wrote " Vermont Folk Medicine. " In that book, he talked about the improvment in farm animals, including horses that adding Lugol's Solution and Apple Cider Vinegar had. In the chapter " The Usefulness of Iodine " (which might be found at jcrows.com) he talks about several things the mixture of iodine and Apple Cider Vinegar can do for animals. He talks about how the use of the mixture made animals healthier, how he observed lice will leave the hide of a cow fed this, and less flies will bite them,, and how it can stop abortions, and get rid of catle grubs. As for Lugol's Solution alone, he talks about how iodine increased the speed and endurance of race horses. Skipper _________________________________________________________________ Get FREE Web site and company branded e-mail from Microsoft Office Live http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 Having goiter can mean too much iodine as well, and hypER thyroid. Goiter is inflammation and can also be caused by damage such as a vigorous palpation of the gland or being choked or hit in the throat. Animals do get hypOthyroid and I would suspect iodine deficient. They have short lifespans, and few people are anal enough about the careof their animals including farm animals to have their levels checked. Most owners find their pets failing and choose to let them die or put them down. Those that do check often find trouble. Farm animals are routinely fed iodine supplements in their mineral blocks. Wild animals get in with the farm stock and eat their supplements as well. My horses are fed their natural diet of pasture. A few require hay and grain to get them thru the winter, but the majority are on just plain grass, no chemicals. I like to let horses be horses and keep things natural. In this way they usually thrive. Those that don't, get help. As to the horses at the university being studied, I know that they receive a balanced ration which would include a certain RDA amt of iodine so I would assume that because this is watched so closely and everything is controlled to the -nth degree, they are getting the iodine and are just missing the thyroid hormone. As to horses dying from a scare like a rabbit, that is funny, but not true. What is true is that a horse will stress more than most animals because it is a prey animal and is set up to run from anything unknown or stressful. When we domesticated them we took away a certain amt of their ability to flee from danger. When stressed (and for other reasons), horses will often colic. This is the most common cause of emergency veterinary visits for horses and is a life threatening condition in which gasses build up (this is usually the type of colic associated with stress altho there are other types) and since a horse cannot burp or vomit, it has nowhere to go. Like a balloon the digestive system begins to expand causing great pain unless we can get their system moving properly to displace the gases or insert a nasogastric tube to relieve them. The horse rolls to relieve the incredible pain and in rolling vigorously, will twist an intestine or otherwise displace it. Unless expensive and very fast surgery is done, this will mean the death of the horse in a very excruciating manner (think of your insides literally blowing up inside of you). When horses are run hard then put away without being cooled off properly then drinking cold water or without blankets to keep them warm (think Black Beauty) they colic from the physical stress. This is probably where that wives tale came from. A horse will not normally drop dead from fright unless it has a serious heart condition. E (Ellen in Missouri)... the owner of an Arabian Horse show and breeding farm. > > I would imagine the local wildlife gets trace amounts from the soil they > graze in. > Who knows how much of what part of this planet was underwater at any given > time. > We all know that having a " goiter " present isn't the only indication that > you have a deficiency..and who would know if a wild animal were having other > issues...kind of hard for average person to approach one, and they don't talk > much > either. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 If you're referring to horses, they actually very rarely get true cushings. They have recently discovered that horses they previously thought had cushings actually have another metabolic problem called EMS- Equine Metabolic Syndrome. To put it short, they get fat, then the adipose, or belly fat actually begins to create hormones all on it's own without help of the pituitary. When the fat is gone, it no longer creates the cortisol etc that causes the syndrome and the horse is cured. Makes you wonder about that fat. If it can create cortisol and other pituitary hormones, can it create thyroid hormone as well, or something " special " that keeps them alive in a hypOthyroid state that would kill any normal person??? You can look up Equine Metabolic Syndrome Dr. Philip and find some intrigueing info. E (Ellen in Missouri) > > They also get Cushings much more than people...jingles > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 Aprilcupcake@... wrote: > > It also seems to be a bigger problem for certain > blood types. We have quite > a high > rate of thyroid problems in the county where > I live, and of the 11 people I > personally know.. 9 of them are type O. Dr. D'Adamo notes that type Os are more prone to thyroid disease. I highly recommend his Blood Type Encylopedia. It's just chock full of interesting stuff, and not all about the blood types per se. Great bathroom reading as you can open it up anywhere and learn something new. I take the blood types food recommendations and prohibitions with a grain of salt, but rather muscle test and experiment to find what's best for me. Carol willis_protocols Article archive in Files. Blog. Links. Not a discussion group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 I am O positive. I also had problems since birth. Amy wrote: That is interesting, because I am type O neg. and have been hypoT from birth or even before birth; I had problems even as an infant. C. <<<<< Posted by: "Aprilcupcakeaol" Aprilcupcakeaol big405brat Mon Jan 8, 2007 5:32 am (PST) It also seems to be a bigger problem for certain blood types. We have quite a high rate of thyroid problems in the county where I live, and of the 11 people I personally know.. 9 of them are type O. >>! >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 Darnit, I’m an O too…renee Re: Re: help? -- iodine and Neanderthals and animals I am O positive. I also had problems since birth. Amy wrote: That is interesting, because I am type O neg. and have been hypoT from birth or even before birth; I had problems even as an infant. C. <<<<< Posted by: " Aprilcupcakeaol " Aprilcupcakeaol big405brat Mon Jan 8, 2007 5:32 am (PST) It also seems to be a bigger problem for certain blood types. We have quite a high rate of thyroid problems in the county where I live, and of the 11 people I personally know.. 9 of them are type O. >>! >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 A large portion of the population has Type O blood, can't remember the exact percentage but approximately 70% I think, it would reason that those percentages would be high for that blood type. Linn > > > That is interesting, because I am type O neg. and have been hypoT from birth > or even before birth; I had problems even as an infant. > > > > > C. > > > > > > <<<<< Posted by: " Aprilcupcake@... " > <http://us.f830.mail./ym/Compose?To=Aprilcupcake@... & Subj=%20Re > %3A%20help%3F%20--%20iodine%20and%20Neanderthals%20and%20animals> > Aprilcupcake@... <big405brat> big405brat > > > Mon Jan 8, 2007 5:32 am (PST) > > > It also seems to be a bigger problem for certain blood types. We have quite > a high rate of thyroid problems in the county where I live, and of the 11 > people I > personally know.. 9 of them are type O. >>! >>> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 Your figure seemed high so I did a google. A and O each are found in about 1/3 of the population. http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/medicine/blood-type.htm Alobar On 1/9/07, mwm1glm <mwm1glm@...> wrote: > A large portion of the population has Type O blood, can't remember the > exact percentage but approximately 70% I think, it would reason that > those percentages would be high for that blood type. > > Linn > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 Well that's what happens when I rely on my memory. I would have been remembering stats from quite a while ago, when dealing more hematolgy issues than I ever wanted to know about. Should have looked it up, as those statistics would be subject to change all the time. Linn > > A large portion of the population has Type O blood, can't remember the > > exact percentage but approximately 70% I think, it would reason that > > those percentages would be high for that blood type. > > > > Linn > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Yes, I wondered about that percentage myself. My son has O type blood. He gave blood a couple of times .. way back when, and now we are being called all of the time for him to donate, because this is "supposedly" a hard to get blood type. I can't remember for sure though .. if there was a negative or positive attached to that .. or maybe neither ..? BTW, our son has been diagnosed w/Asperger's .. I wonder if there is any correlation .. ? GloAlobar <Alobar@...> wrote: Your figure seemed high so I did a google. A and O each are found inabout 1/3 of the population.http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/medicine/blood-type.htmAlobarOn 1/9/07, mwm1glm <mwm1glm > wrote:> A large portion of the population has Type O blood, can't remember the> exact percentage but approximately 70% I think, it would reason that> those percentages would be high for that blood type.>> Linn> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Type is in demand because it is a "universal" donor blood meaning it does not have A or B antigens so it can be used by all blood types when needed. Yes, I wondered about that percentage myself. My son has O type blood. He gave blood a couple of times .. way back when, and now we are being called all of the time for him to donate, because this is "supposedly" a hard to get blood type. I can't remember for sure though .. if there was a negative or positive attached to that .. or maybe neither ..? BTW, our son has been diagnosed w/Asperger's .. I wonder if there is any correlation .. ? Glo Messages in this topic (19) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Type O negative is always in demand for emergencies when a blood type cannot be determined. Linn > > Type is in demand because it is a " universal " donor blood meaning it does not have A or B antigens so it can be used by all blood types when needed. > > > > > > > Yes, I wondered about that percentage myself. My son has O type blood. He gave blood a couple of times .. way back when, and now we are being called all of the time for him to donate, because this is " supposedly " a hard to get blood type. I can't remember for sure though .. if there was a negative or positive attached to that .. or maybe neither ..? > > BTW, our son has been diagnosed w/Asperger's .. I wonder if there is any correlation .. ? > > Glo > > Messages in this topic (19) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic > Messages | Database | Polls | Calendar > Iodine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 , thank you very much for this intriguing abstract! I am trying to get the whole article, and I've written to Venturi to see if he knows any more about this since he is the expert on iodine in evolution. Unfortunately, the article looks like it is only three pages long, but maybe it will have some good references. It sounds like it is looking at some of the basic physiology of iodine across mammals. I don't even understand the physiology of iodine in humans yet, and this might help. I need to find out what "glomerular filtration rate" means. Very interesting that large mammals (like humans) appear to have lost the ability to reabsorb iodide efficiently. I wonder when that happened. Does it serve another survival value??? Otherwise, it seems counterproductive since iodine is so necessary and so scarce. Also, how does this affect the research on iodine that is done on rats, etc? Then, it says that VERY large mammals are protected against renal loss of iodide due to low GFR. So that makes it sounds that both the very large and the small animals are protected, but man and other "large" animals are not. I'd certainly be interested in any more thoughts or studies you find on this. Zoe ----- Original Message ----- From: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 , you say "I haven't seen this studied much except in farm animals." Do you know of any good review articles on farm animals and iodine? Thanks. Zoe ----- Original Message ----- From: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Ellen, Do you know if there are any good review articles on iodine and horses? I know that a lot has been done on iodine and horses on a pragmatic basis (as reported by Jarvis), but I've never read a comprehensive article. Zoe ----- Original Message ----- From: Ellen My horses are fed their natural diet of pasture. A few require hayand grain to get them thru the winter, but the majority are on justplain grass, no chemicals. I like to let horses be horses and keepthings natural. In this way they usually thrive. Those that don't, gethelp.As to the horses at the university being studied, I know that theyreceive a balanced ration which would include a certain RDA amt ofiodine so I would assume that because this is watched so closely andeverything is controlled to the -nth degree, they are getting theiodine and are just missing the thyroid hormone.E (Ellen in Missouri)... the owner of an Arabian Horse show andbreeding farm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 We now have the whole article by Vadstrup, Comparative aspects of iodine conservation in mammals. You can find it here: http://iodine4health.com/special/physiology/conservation/conservation.htm Zoe ----- Original Message ----- From: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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