Guest guest Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 >From: " cindi22595 " <cindi22595@...> >I guess I could believe that if I believed my granny, my mom, and aunts >and uncles and cousins all had tired and confused immune systems as the >origin of their Hashi's. >cindi That generally implies there's an underlying condition that's causing the tired and confused immune system. Such as lack of iodine, overload of toxins, hypothyroidism, hypoadrenaia, etc. Doesn't mean their immune system just gets sleepy one day, in a vaccuum. Skipper _________________________________________________________________ Get FREE company branded e-mail accounts and business Web site from Microsoft Office Live http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 >From: " cindi22595 " <cindi22595@...> >I guess I could believe that if I believed my granny, my mom, and aunts >and uncles and cousins all had tired and confused immune systems as the >origin of their Hashi's. >cindi That generally implies there's an underlying condition that's causing the tired and confused immune system. Such as lack of iodine, overload of toxins, hypothyroidism, hypoadrenaia, etc. Doesn't mean their immune system just gets sleepy one day, in a vaccuum. Skipper _________________________________________________________________ Get FREE company branded e-mail accounts and business Web site from Microsoft Office Live http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 >From: " cindi22595 " <cindi22595@...> in fact, the observation is that childbirth >(hormonal change) or major stress played a factor in the onset in >all the cases in my family. >cindi What happens then? You need more iodine during pregnancy, lactation. Low iodine put a strain there? Low adrenals is one of the potential causes I mentioned, stress burnout would imply that. You're presuming all your family had same diet. My children don't eat the same things. One was especially fond of cereal, which I think was part of his majory thyroid problem, as it tends to be high in fluoride. Another went hypo when he had braces and was rinsing daily with fluoride. I don't think that's a coincidence. Especially since he's not on Armour any more, and doesn't seem hypo. Skipper _________________________________________________________________ Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and more…then map the best route! http://local.live.com?FORM=MGA001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 I understand what you are saying. This is from Wikipedia: " Any autoimmune response thus was perceived to be abnormal and postulated to be connected with human disease. Now, it is accepted that autoimmune responses are vital to the development and functioning of vertebrate immune systems, and central to the development of immunological tolerance to self-antigens. The latter concept has been termed natural autoimmunity. " Problem is the thyroid will be dead by the time any tolerance is developed. This particular autoimmune response is caused by a variation in a gene. This one: http://goodgene.kribb.re.kr/cgi-bin/cards/carddisp?HT This does not mean we will develop Hashimoto's for sure. I believe this gene variation means we have a stress fracture built-in and when stresses... (emotional, physical, environmental, nutritional) become too great we crack at that gene. A different body with no defective gene would not crack there... maybe somewhere else or not at all. I need to try to repair that crack... I think it will get worse even with thyroid horomone. --- Abbe <abbe_online@...> wrote: > > > --- <kennio@...> wrote: > > > Flechas told me I was barking up the wrong tree > > trying to reverse Hashi's with iodine. That's > > when he suggested the Betaine and > > phosphaditylcholine to lower the antibodies. Mine > > dropped from > > 96 to 42 and hopefully further next test. > > > > , > > I do not have any science or studies for you to read > about this. I too have the Hashimoto's diagnosis and > when I first read about attempts to lower the > antibodies I had a strong sense that 'I' should not > fool around with that unless and until I understood > the possible outcomes. My reasoning is there is some > reason why I have them and have not read anything that > convinces me anyone really knows completely what it is > all about. Suppose those antibodies are preventing > something serious from developing, for example. I am > not trying to convince you of anything. Just sharing > this with you. You have been so kind in offering so > much of your experience on the list. > > Best wishes, > > > Abbe > > __________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 What Im wondering about all of this is, if I take Betaine for my Hashi's to kill those antibodies or whatever it does, will it also kill OTHER antibodies I have in my system like for Tuberculosis? I had a mild case of Tuberculosis when i was five years old and so I have those antibodies. I definitely don't want them killed off. Any ideas about this? --- <kennio@...> wrote: > I understand what you are saying. This is from > Wikipedia: > > " Any autoimmune response thus was perceived to be > abnormal and postulated to be connected with > human disease. Now, it is accepted that autoimmune > responses are vital to the development and > functioning of vertebrate immune systems, and > central to the development of immunological > tolerance to self-antigens. The latter concept has > been termed natural autoimmunity. " > > Problem is the thyroid will be dead by the time any > tolerance is developed. This particular > autoimmune response is caused by a variation in a > gene. This one: > > http://goodgene.kribb.re.kr/cgi-bin/cards/carddisp?HT > > This does not mean we will develop Hashimoto's for > sure. I believe this gene variation means we > have a stress fracture built-in and when stresses... > (emotional, physical, environmental, > nutritional) become too great we crack at that gene. > A different body with no defective gene > would not crack there... maybe somewhere else or not > at all. > > I need to try to repair that crack... I think it > will get worse even with thyroid horomone. > > > --- Abbe <abbe_online@...> wrote: > > > > > > > --- <kennio@...> wrote: > > > > > Flechas told me I was barking up the wrong tree > > > trying to reverse Hashi's with iodine. That's > > > when he suggested the Betaine and > > > phosphaditylcholine to lower the antibodies. > Mine > > > dropped from > > > 96 to 42 and hopefully further next test. > > > > > > > , > > > > I do not have any science or studies for you to > read > > about this. I too have the Hashimoto's diagnosis > and > > when I first read about attempts to lower the > > antibodies I had a strong sense that 'I' should > not > > fool around with that unless and until I > understood > > the possible outcomes. My reasoning is there is > some > > reason why I have them and have not read anything > that > > convinces me anyone really knows completely what > it is > > all about. Suppose those antibodies are > preventing > > something serious from developing, for example. I > am > > not trying to convince you of anything. Just > sharing > > this with you. You have been so kind in offering > so > > much of your experience on the list. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > Abbe > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 >From: JD <ybr1959@...> >What Im wondering about all of this is, if I take >Betaine for my Hashi's to kill those antibodies or >whatever it does, will it also kill OTHER antibodies I >have in my system like for Tuberculosis? I had a mild >case of Tuberculosis when i was five years old and so >I have those antibodies. I definitely don't want them >killed off. Any ideas about this? If you had when you were 5, I don't know if it would still be causing problems, but TB was historically the primary cause of 's Disease. But, to be considered 's, 90 percent of the adrenals need to be destroyed. (Means you're practically dead, I think.) Anyway, I guess it's possible your adrenals never fully recovered from TB, if you still happen to have adrenal problems. Skipper _________________________________________________________________ Add a contact to Windows Live Messenger for a chance to win a free trip! http://www.imagine-windowslive.com/minisites//default.aspx?locale=en-us & hmt\ agline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 Yes, I had read that about a month ago concerning 's and TB - you can bet THAT got my attention lol. But, my adrenals weren't too badly affected, probably somewhat though; it was a very mild case of TB. Not until I was in my 30s did the hypoglycemia hit, hypothyroid, fibromyalgia, etc. I had horrible stress throughout my childhood since birth and through my 30s, though, and this has contributed more to my adrenal fatigue I think than the TB did, although both together didn't help! --- Skipper Beers <lsb149@...> wrote: > >From: JD <ybr1959@...> > > >What Im wondering about all of this is, if I take > >Betaine for my Hashi's to kill those antibodies or > >whatever it does, will it also kill OTHER > antibodies I > >have in my system like for Tuberculosis? I had a > mild > >case of Tuberculosis when i was five years old and > so > >I have those antibodies. I definitely don't want > them > >killed off. Any ideas about this? > > If you had when you were 5, I don't know if it would > still be causing > problems, but TB was historically the primary cause > of 's Disease. > But, to be considered 's, 90 percent of the > adrenals need to be > destroyed. (Means you're practically dead, I > think.) > > Anyway, I guess it's possible your adrenals never > fully recovered from TB, > if you still happen to have adrenal problems. > > Skipper __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 Betaine (and other methyl donors) help to methylate DNA or `silence genes'. There is no gene from what I can see that specifically causes mycobacterium tuberculosis, just one that make you susceptibility to infection. Therefore silencing that gene would be theoretically be a good thing. Who knows if it is even possible at this early stage in understanding altering gene expression to silence TB genes. As far as I understand there are different methods to attempt silencing of different genes and perhaps phosphdytilcholine is used with hashimoto's because of of an attempt at targeting of certain metabolic pathways; it does accumulate in the thyroid... OR it could be that it makes the thyroid cell membranes more permeable so the betaine can do its work. Some doctors fear that in the attempt to silence certain genes that one could inadvertently turn off a good gene like tumor suppressor genes.... in the thyroid for instance. Here is the one of two genes that make you susceptible to TB. http://goodgene.kribb.re.kr/cgi-bin/cards/carddisp?MTBS1 Here's info about methylation and tumor suppressor genes. http://www.clltopics.org/CellBio/Epigenetics.htm --- JD <ybr1959@...> wrote: > What Im wondering about all of this is, if I take > Betaine for my Hashi's to kill those antibodies or > whatever it does, will it also kill OTHER antibodies I > have in my system like for Tuberculosis? I had a mild > case of Tuberculosis when i was five years old and so > I have those antibodies. I definitely don't want them > killed off. Any ideas about this? > > > > --- <kennio@...> wrote: > > > I understand what you are saying. This is from > > Wikipedia: > > > > " Any autoimmune response thus was perceived to be > > abnormal and postulated to be connected with > > human disease. Now, it is accepted that autoimmune > > responses are vital to the development and > > functioning of vertebrate immune systems, and > > central to the development of immunological > > tolerance to self-antigens. The latter concept has > > been termed natural autoimmunity. " > > > > Problem is the thyroid will be dead by the time any > > tolerance is developed. This particular > > autoimmune response is caused by a variation in a > > gene. This one: > > > > > http://goodgene.kribb.re.kr/cgi-bin/cards/carddisp?HT > > > > This does not mean we will develop Hashimoto's for > > sure. I believe this gene variation means we > > have a stress fracture built-in and when stresses... > > (emotional, physical, environmental, > > nutritional) become too great we crack at that gene. > > A different body with no defective gene > > would not crack there... maybe somewhere else or not > > at all. > > > > I need to try to repair that crack... I think it > > will get worse even with thyroid horomone. > > > > > > --- Abbe <abbe_online@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > --- <kennio@...> wrote: > > > > > > > Flechas told me I was barking up the wrong tree > > > > trying to reverse Hashi's with iodine. That's > > > > when he suggested the Betaine and > > > > phosphaditylcholine to lower the antibodies. > > Mine > > > > dropped from > > > > 96 to 42 and hopefully further next test. > > > > > > > > > > , > > > > > > I do not have any science or studies for you to > > read > > > about this. I too have the Hashimoto's diagnosis > > and > > > when I first read about attempts to lower the > > > antibodies I had a strong sense that 'I' should > > not > > > fool around with that unless and until I > > understood > > > the possible outcomes. My reasoning is there is > > some > > > reason why I have them and have not read anything > > that > > > convinces me anyone really knows completely what > > it is > > > all about. Suppose those antibodies are > > preventing > > > something serious from developing, for example. I > > am > > > not trying to convince you of anything. Just > > sharing > > > this with you. You have been so kind in offering > > so > > > much of your experience on the list. > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > Abbe > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 I can't believe how much you know about all this. THANKS for the information and the education. --- <kennio@...> wrote: > Betaine (and other methyl donors) help to methylate > DNA or `silence genes'. > There is no gene from what I can see that > specifically causes mycobacterium > tuberculosis, just one that make you susceptibility > to infection. Therefore > silencing that gene would be theoretically be a good > thing. Who knows if it is > even possible at this early stage in understanding > altering gene expression to > silence TB genes. > > As far as I understand there are different methods > to attempt silencing of > different genes and perhaps phosphdytilcholine is > used with hashimoto's because > of of an attempt at targeting of certain metabolic > pathways; it does accumulate > in the thyroid... OR it could be that it makes the > thyroid cell membranes more > permeable so the betaine can do its work. > > Some doctors fear that in the attempt to silence > certain genes that one could > inadvertently turn off a good gene like tumor > suppressor genes.... in the > thyroid for instance. > > Here is the one of two genes that make you > susceptible to TB. > http://goodgene.kribb.re.kr/cgi-bin/cards/carddisp?MTBS1 > > Here's info about methylation and tumor suppressor > genes. > http://www.clltopics.org/CellBio/Epigenetics.htm > > --- JD <ybr1959@...> wrote: > > > What Im wondering about all of this is, if I take > > Betaine for my Hashi's to kill those antibodies or > > whatever it does, will it also kill OTHER > antibodies I > > have in my system like for Tuberculosis? I had a > mild > > case of Tuberculosis when i was five years old and > so > > I have those antibodies. I definitely don't want > them > > killed off. Any ideas about this? > > > > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 Perhaps I do not understand but this does not appear to me to address the cause. Repair a crack in one area of a structure that has been relieving the entire structure of stress and crack(s) may occur at other places in the structure to absorb the stress. Abbe --- <kennio@...> wrote: > I understand what you are saying. This is from > Wikipedia: > > " Any autoimmune response thus was perceived to be > abnormal and postulated to be connected with > human disease. Now, it is accepted that autoimmune > responses are vital to the development and > functioning of vertebrate immune systems, and > central to the development of immunological > tolerance to self-antigens. The latter concept has > been termed natural autoimmunity. " > > Problem is the thyroid will be dead by the time any > tolerance is developed. This particular > autoimmune response is caused by a variation in a > gene. This one: > > http://goodgene.kribb.re.kr/cgi-bin/cards/carddisp?HT > > This does not mean we will develop Hashimoto's for > sure. I believe this gene variation means we > have a stress fracture built-in and when stresses... > (emotional, physical, environmental, > nutritional) become too great we crack at that gene. > A different body with no defective gene > would not crack there... maybe somewhere else or not > at all. > > I need to try to repair that crack... I think it > will get worse even with thyroid horomone. > > > --- Abbe <abbe_online@...> wrote: > > > > > > > --- <kennio@...> wrote: > > > > > Flechas told me I was barking up the wrong tree > > > trying to reverse Hashi's with iodine. That's > > > when he suggested the Betaine and > > > phosphaditylcholine to lower the antibodies. > Mine > > > dropped from > > > 96 to 42 and hopefully further next test. > > > > > > > , > > > > I do not have any science or studies for you to > read > > about this. I too have the Hashimoto's diagnosis > and > > when I first read about attempts to lower the > > antibodies I had a strong sense that 'I' should > not > > fool around with that unless and until I > understood > > the possible outcomes. My reasoning is there is > some > > reason why I have them and have not read anything > that > > convinces me anyone really knows completely what > it is > > all about. Suppose those antibodies are > preventing > > something serious from developing, for example. I > am > > not trying to convince you of anything. Just > sharing > > this with you. You have been so kind in offering > so > > much of your experience on the list. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > Abbe > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 With the gene variation for Hashimoto's, I have a built in structural defect. I became vitamin and mineral deficient through bad habits and the defect made itself known. Now that the nutritional deficiencies are being cured the activated autoimmune disease itself IS the stress. Initially I began to develop Hypothyroidism, arrhythmia, GERD, adrenal fatigue and a number of other effects of nutritional deficiency...all cracks or signs of a structure crumbling; all of which are in retreat with diet change and therapeutic dosing of vitamins, minerals and essential fatty acids. I always believed by me taking a beta-blocker, prilosec, cortef and levoxyl I would be treating symptoms not the cause. If I can never get off levoxyl it probably because of damage to my thyroid from my genetic flaw. BUT that is my goal... off all drugs. --- Abbe <abbe_online@...> wrote: > Perhaps I do not understand but this does not appear > to me to address the cause. > > Repair a crack in one area of a structure that has > been relieving the entire structure of stress and > crack(s) may occur at other places in the structure to > absorb the stress. > > Abbe > > --- <kennio@...> wrote: > > > I understand what you are saying. This is from > > Wikipedia: > > > > " Any autoimmune response thus was perceived to be > > abnormal and postulated to be connected with > > human disease. Now, it is accepted that autoimmune > > responses are vital to the development and > > functioning of vertebrate immune systems, and > > central to the development of immunological > > tolerance to self-antigens. The latter concept has > > been termed natural autoimmunity. " > > > > Problem is the thyroid will be dead by the time any > > tolerance is developed. This particular > > autoimmune response is caused by a variation in a > > gene. This one: > > > > > http://goodgene.kribb.re.kr/cgi-bin/cards/carddisp?HT > > > > This does not mean we will develop Hashimoto's for > > sure. I believe this gene variation means we > > have a stress fracture built-in and when stresses... > > (emotional, physical, environmental, > > nutritional) become too great we crack at that gene. > > A different body with no defective gene > > would not crack there... maybe somewhere else or not > > at all. > > > > I need to try to repair that crack... I think it > > will get worse even with thyroid horomone. > > > > > > --- Abbe <abbe_online@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > --- <kennio@...> wrote: > > > > > > > Flechas told me I was barking up the wrong tree > > > > trying to reverse Hashi's with iodine. That's > > > > when he suggested the Betaine and > > > > phosphaditylcholine to lower the antibodies. > > Mine > > > > dropped from > > > > 96 to 42 and hopefully further next test. > > > > > > > > > > , > > > > > > I do not have any science or studies for you to > > read > > > about this. I too have the Hashimoto's diagnosis > > and > > > when I first read about attempts to lower the > > > antibodies I had a strong sense that 'I' should > > not > > > fool around with that unless and until I > > understood > > > the possible outcomes. My reasoning is there is > > some > > > reason why I have them and have not read anything > > that > > > convinces me anyone really knows completely what > > it is > > > all about. Suppose those antibodies are > > preventing > > > something serious from developing, for example. I > > am > > > not trying to convince you of anything. Just > > sharing > > > this with you. You have been so kind in offering > > so > > > much of your experience on the list. > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > Abbe > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2006 Report Share Posted October 29, 2006 --- Skipper Beers <lsb149@...> wrote: > Sometimes simply taking thyroid meds will make antibodies go down, > Sometimes taking Cortef will make antibodies go down, > > I'm surprised phospholipids can make them go down. Since, that's a fatty > acid, why would Cod Liver Oil do that same? > > My wife takes phosphatidylserine, I wonder if that would work as well. She > was never diagnosed with Hashi's, but maybe it has something to do with why > it's so helpful to her. We presume it's the effect of lowering cortisol, > particularly brain function that's helpful, but we could be wrong. " content of the plasma membrane and decrease in its phosphatidylcholine content (26) are important components of cellular senescence (inability to divide) (27). Reduction in the expression of the TSH (11) and TNF (6) receptors, possibly an adaptive response to altered phospholipid composition and second messenger signaling in the plasma membrane, may contribute to the increased incidence of abnormal regulation of iodide uptake and thyroid hormone metabolism with aging " http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/139/2/703 > > Skipper > > _________________________________________________________________ > Try the next generation of search with Windows Live Search today! > http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us & source=hmtag\ line > > ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Low, Low, Low Rates! Check out Messenger's cheap PC-to-Phone call rates (http://voice.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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