Re: OT - traditional cultures

[Guest guest]

>From: Heidi <heidis@...>

>Reply-iodine

>iodine

>Subject: Re: Re: OT - traditional cultures

>Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 14:38:37 -0700

>

>I don't know. My take is that the natives never had wheat

>before, and reacted to it. That's happened recently with

>food aid programs. The kids reacted so strongly

>that doctors were sent in, figuring it was a new kind

>of parasite that was giving them bloated stomachs

>and malnutrition, even though they had plenty of

>food.

I never heard about this, and not sure why it would be a new problem, I

would assume that we would have sent wheat for food aid for many years.

It does make sense though. I always wonder if something takes a lot of

energy to turn into something edible, how could it be part of a natural

diet? Maybe I'm wrong, and you can just eat the wheat plant without

grinding it into flour which seems a long and arduous process.

>

>The IgA reaction to wheat is such

>that it severely messes up how D and calcium are used

>and how Vit K gets produced, plus it messes up intestinal

>absorption of nutrients. I don't think Price could have

>known that though, and the food aid people are still

>having difficulties with the idea. White flour seems to

>cause a lot more problems in this regard than whole wheat

>flour ... I think something in the wheat germ makes the

>gluten less sticky, but have you ever noticed how hard

>it is to get whole wheat bread to rise?

Whole foods are generally better. Maybe this is part of the reason most

Americans are Vitamin D deficient.

Skipper

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Irene.M@... wrote:

> You know that is not how I have remembered NAPD so I pulled it out. It

> seems like most of the affected people I've looked at so far according to

> Dr. Price ate a " largely modernied diet " or " exchanged their primitive diet

> for a modern diet " . Most of them got their food, in the cases I looked at

> so far, from the government if they were on a reservation, or missionaries,

> or the mining company like in Alaska. So far I haven't found a situation

> where a primitive culture just added a few modern foods to their native

> diet and had a big degradation in health. I am still looking so if you have

> a specific group in mind let me know.

> Irene

>

That's a good question. He really doesn't say *how much* modern food

each group is eating. He says things like:

http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/price/price3.html

" It is of significance that a study of the child life in the Rhone

valley, as made by Swiss officials and reported by Dr. Adolf Roos and

his associates, shows that practically every child had tooth decay and

the majority of the children had decay in an aggravated form. People of

this valley are provided with adequate railroad transportation for

bringing them the luxuries of the world. "

" It is, however, provided with modern nutrition consisting of an

abundance of white-flour products, marmalades, jams, canned vegetables,

confections, and fruits--all of which are transported to the district. "

" In almost all the other parts of Switzerland in which the population is

large 95 to 98 per cent of the people suffer from dental caries. Of the

two remaining districts, in one there is from 90 to 95 per cent and in

the other from 85 to 90 per cent individual susceptibility to dental

caries. "

OK, so the food that was transportable at the time was " white-flour

products " , jams and confections,

and canned vegies. In the cities, there weren't so many farms. But I

find it highly doubtful that people were living off that menu. In

Switzerland today even,

there are open-air markets and people buy fresh produce for dinner,

along with

sausages and meats. In the 1920's, that was even more true: people just

didn't

live off canned vegies except maybe in winter. And jams go with bread!

The thing that really changed, in Switzerland, when the railroads

came in, was in fact the advent of white flour (which is also what

Price talks about constantly). Even if some folks didn't buy

the local fresh vegies at the market, or meat, and were living

off nothing but canned goods, it's really unlikely that 90% of

the population did that (the percentage with dental caries). It

just wasn't the cultural practice, and most people didn't live

in cities back then.

I can say what happened in my Grandad's

day (he left an autobiography). When he got

a little money, when the economy got a little better, when

trains started running, he started eating bread rolls.

In fact, he delivered them door to door in his little village.

because they were prized. Before that, all he could get

was oatmeal, which is what everyone ate, and goat products

and stuff they grew in their garden. But when they finally

got bread rolls, that didn't stop them from eating the goat

products and garden produce and pig fat etc. that they

ate before. There is simply no way they could afford that:

in the 1920's, most people grew most of their own food,

or bought it from someone local who grew it.

You can see a reference to this in the book " Heidi " (it's

really interesting my Dad named me after that book ... given

the family history). Anyway, when Heidi goes to visit

some rich folks, she hides the bread rolls to take back

to her grandma, because she can't get those nice soft

rolls in the country. Country bread was typically rye

or barley, which are easier to grow and a lot less

problematic digestion-wise (and of course they

were also whole-grain and probably sourdough).

So yeah, my inference is that, except in some cases

where people got fed by nuns or some such, the majority

of their food was still local and still whole. They mainly

changed their grain from whole rye/barley/oats to white

wheat flour (fluffy bread with marmelade).

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

Well, that is kind of the point. The modern diet didn't consist of only the

bad stuff then or now. Even in the US today people eat other things besides

junk one in a while. But like you said in the cities where where they ate a

lot of food brought in they had dental problems. They likely ate some

problematic food every day. Everywhere in the book it seems that primitive

people got into trouble when they adopted a diet similar to the modern diet

as opposed to eating the occasional junk. As I said before, according to

the book it seems that the primitives got into trouble when they ate a

" largely modern diet " or subsisted solely on the food provided by the

government. No where can I find an instance where he talks about major

problems where they only occasionally used modern food. Although I suspect

some people might have had some problems with only a little modern food.

Irene

At 10:45 AM 7/12/2006, you wrote:

> " It is, however, provided with modern nutrition consisting of an

>abundance of white-flour products, marmalades, jams, canned vegetables,

>confections, and fruits--all of which are transported to the district. "

>

> " In almost all the other parts of Switzerland in which the population is

>large 95 to 98 per cent of the people suffer from dental caries. Of the

>two remaining districts, in one there is from 90 to 95 per cent and in

>the other from 85 to 90 per cent individual susceptibility to dental

>caries. "

>

>OK, so the food that was transportable at the time was " white-flour

>products " , jams and confections,

>and canned vegies. In the cities, there weren't so many farms. But I

>find it highly doubtful that people were living off that menu. In

>Switzerland today even,

>there are open-air markets and people buy fresh produce for dinner,

>along with

>sausages and meats. In the 1920's, that was even more true: people just

>didn't

>live off canned vegies except maybe in winter. And jams go with bread!

[Guest guest]

I have been following this for awhile so I

have to say something. In the USA today I can

think of very little food purchased in grocery stores that is not junk. The milk is ultra pasteurized so has

very little nutrition as everything has been killed and then to make up for

that they add back synthetic vitamins not to mention they live in huge barns

where they are unable to move and have been shot up with growth hormones to

make them produce 5 times the amount they are suppose to produce which causes a

lifespan of about 3-5 years vs. the normal 15.. They even cut off their tails. The meats

are from

cows, chickens, pigs that have been shot up with hormones, lived in inhumane

conditions and not allowed to move, put in feed lots and fed grains that cause

the meat to be devoid of necessary nutrients like CLA, and beta-carotene. Even the fruits and vegetables have a

very good possibility of being genetically modified and if they aren’t

that they are loaded with pesticides.

Even the spices are irradiated.

Of course most people don’t know this. Then we could move on to the breads,

cheese, cereals that extruded and therefore toxic. Of course we all know about

the junk food that is all made with soybean or cottonseed oil and/or

hydrogenated oils. Even lard has

had hydrogenated oils added to it. So,

I ask, what food are you talking about that is any good? Then we could go into the fats and the

vegetable oils they have every one convinced is good for them but is quite the

opposite., not to mention almost all salad dressings are made with Canola oil

which is chemically modified rapeseed oil that Canada pawned off as good oil

and finally paid off the FDA for 50 million dollars in order to

sell it to our country.

Sorry, if I sound belligerent but I can’t

find too many healthy foods in our food chain these days unless you search out

good sources which are most likely from a farmer, etc.

So, how lucky we are as a nation to have

health at all but if you look at the statistics most people are not healthy at

all but have learned to accept most illness and disease as normal. Back when Dr. Price was doing his

research our food was not nearly as contaminated as it is

today and the results then were pretty significant. Imagine what he would find today!!

Just my opinion.

Allyn

PRIORITY INVESTMENTS N' KOLLATERAL,INC.

ALLYN FERRIS

PRESIDENT

AFERRIS@...

4548A WEST

VILLAGE DR.

TAMPA, FL 33624

tel: 813-961-1500

fax: 813-996-9571

mobile: 813-391-7965

Add me to your address book... Want a signature like this?

From: iodine [mailto:iodine ] On Behalf Of Irene.M@...

Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006

8:07 PM

iodine

Subject: Re: Re: OT -

traditional cultures

Well, that is kind of the point. The modern diet

didn't consist of only the

bad stuff then or now. Even in the US today people eat other things

besides

junk one in a while. But like you said in the cities where where they ate a

lot of food brought in they had dental problems. They likely ate some

problematic food every day. Everywhere in the book it seems that primitive

people got into trouble when they adopted a diet similar to the modern diet

as opposed to eating the occasional junk. As I said before, according to

the book it seems that the primitives got into trouble when they ate a

" largely modern diet " or subsisted solely on the food provided by the

government. No where can I find an instance where he talks about major

problems where they only occasionally used modern food. Although I suspect

some people might have had some problems with only a little modern food.

Irene

At 10:45 AM 7/12/2006, you wrote:

> " It is, however, provided with modern nutrition consisting of an

>abundance of white-flour products, marmalades, jams, canned vegetables,

>confections, and fruits--all of which are transported to the

district. "

>

> " In almost all the other parts of Switzerland in which the population

is

>large 95 to 98 per cent of the people suffer from dental caries. Of the

>two remaining districts, in one there is from 90 to 95 per cent and in

>the other from 85 to 90 per cent individual susceptibility to dental

>caries. "

>

>OK, so the food that was transportable at the time was " white-flour

>products " , jams and confections,

>and canned vegies. In the cities, there weren't so many farms. But I

>find it highly doubtful that people were living off that menu. In

>Switzerland

today even,

>there are open-air markets and people buy fresh produce for dinner,

>along with

>sausages and meats. In the 1920's, that was even more true: people just

>didn't

>live off canned vegies except maybe in winter. And jams go with bread!

[Guest guest]

Well if you must get huffy, check this out:

http://www.themeatrix.com/

-- RE: Re: OT - traditional cultures

I have been following this for awhile so I have to say something. In the USA today I can think of very little food purchased in grocery stores that is not junk. The milk is ultra pasteurized so has very little nutrition as everything has been killed and then to make up for that they add back synthetic vitamins not to mention they live in huge barns where they are unable to move and have been shot up with growth hormones to make them produce 5 times the amount they are suppose to produce which causes a lifespan of about 3-5 years vs. the normal 15.. They even cut off their tails. The meats are from cows, chickens, pigs that have been shot up with hormones, lived in inhumane conditions and not allowed to move, put in feed lots and fed grains that cause the meat to be devoid of necessary nutrients like CLA, and beta-carotene. Even the fruits and vegetables have a very good possibility of being genetically modified and if they aren’t that they are loaded with pesticides. Even the spices are irradiated. Of course most people don’t know this. Then we could move on to the breads, cheese, cereals that extruded and therefore toxic. Of course we all know about the junk food that is all made with soybean or cottonseed oil and/or hydrogenated oils. Even lard has had hydrogenated oils added to it. So, I ask, what food are you talking about that is any good? Then we could go into the fats and the vegetable oils they have every one convinced is good for them but is quite the opposite., not to mention almost all salad dressings are made with Canola oil which is chemically modified rapeseed oil that Canada pawned off as good oil and finally paid off the FDA for 50 million dollars in order to sell it to our country.

Sorry, if I sound belligerent but I can’t find too many healthy foods in our food chain these days unless you search out good sources which are most likely from a farmer, etc.

So, how lucky we are as a nation to have health at all but if you look at the statistics most people are not healthy at all but have learned to accept most illness and disease as normal. Back when Dr. Price was doing his research our food was not nearly as contaminated as it is today and the results then were pretty significant. Imagine what he would find today!!

Just my opinion.

Allyn

PRIORITY INVESTMENTS N' KOLLATERAL,INC.ALLYN FERRISPRESIDENTAFERRIS@...4548A WEST VILLAGE DR.TAMPA, FL 33624tel: 813-961-1500fax: 813-996-9571mobile: 813-391-7965

Add me to your address book... Want a signature like this?

From: iodine [mailto:iodine ] On Behalf Of Irene.M@...Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 8:07 PMiodine Subject: Re: Re: OT - traditional cultures

Well, that is kind of the point. The modern diet didn't consist of only the bad stuff then or now. Even in the US today people eat other things besides junk one in a while. But like you said in the cities where where they ate a lot of food brought in they had dental problems. They likely ate some problematic food every day. Everywhere in the book it seems that primitive people got into trouble when they adopted a diet similar to the modern diet as opposed to eating the occasional junk. As I said before, according to the book it seems that the primitives got into trouble when they ate a "largely modern diet" or subsisted solely on the food provided by the government. No where can I find an instance where he talks about major problems where they only occasionally used modern food. Although I suspect some people might have had some problems with only a little modern food.IreneAt 10:45 AM 7/12/2006, you wrote:>"It is, however, provided with modern nutrition consisting of an>abundance of white-flour products, marmalades, jams, canned vegetables,>confections, and fruits--all of which are transported to the district.">>"In almost all the other parts of Switzerland in which the population is>large 95 to 98 per cent of the people suffer from dental caries. Of the>two remaining districts, in one there is from 90 to 95 per cent and in>the other from 85 to 90 per cent individual susceptibility to dental>caries.">>OK, so the food that was transportable at the time was "white-flour>products", jams and confections,>and canned vegies. In the cities, there weren't so many farms. But I>find it highly doubtful that people were living off that menu. In>Switzerland today even,>there are open-air markets and people buy fresh produce for dinner,>along with>sausages and meats. In the 1920's, that was even more true: people just>didn't>live off canned vegies except maybe in winter. And jams go with bread!

[Guest guest]

And then there is this: http://www.storewars.org/flash/index.HTML

-- RE: Re: OT - traditional cultures

I have been following this for awhile so I have to say something. In the USA today I can think of very little food purchased in grocery stores that is not junk. The milk is ultra pasteurized so has very little nutrition as everything has been killed and then to make up for that they add back synthetic vitamins not to mention they live in huge barns where they are unable to move and have been shot up with growth hormones to make them produce 5 times the amount they are suppose to produce which causes a lifespan of about 3-5 years vs. the normal 15.. They even cut off their tails. The meats are from cows, chickens, pigs that have been shot up with hormones, lived in inhumane conditions and not allowed to move, put in feed lots and fed grains that cause the meat to be devoid of necessary nutrients like CLA, and beta-carotene. Even the fruits and vegetables have a very good possibility of being genetically modified and if they aren’t that they are loaded with pesticides. Even the spices are irradiated. Of course most people don’t know this. Then we could move on to the breads, cheese, cereals that extruded and therefore toxic. Of course we all know about the junk food that is all made with soybean or cottonseed oil and/or hydrogenated oils. Even lard has had hydrogenated oils added to it. So, I ask, what food are you talking about that is any good? Then we could go into the fats and the vegetable oils they have every one convinced is good for them but is quite the opposite., not to mention almost all salad dressings are made with Canola oil which is chemically modified rapeseed oil that Canada pawned off as good oil and finally paid off the FDA for 50 million dollars in order to sell it to our country.

Sorry, if I sound belligerent but I can’t find too many healthy foods in our food chain these days unless you search out good sources which are most likely from a farmer, etc.

So, how lucky we are as a nation to have health at all but if you look at the statistics most people are not healthy at all but have learned to accept most illness and disease as normal. Back when Dr. Price was doing his research our food was not nearly as contaminated as it is today and the results then were pretty significant. Imagine what he would find today!!

Just my opinion.

Allyn

PRIORITY INVESTMENTS N' KOLLATERAL,INC.ALLYN FERRISPRESIDENTAFERRIS@...4548A WEST VILLAGE DR.TAMPA, FL 33624tel: 813-961-1500fax: 813-996-9571mobile: 813-391-7965

Add me to your address book... Want a signature like this?

From: iodine [mailto:iodine ] On Behalf Of Irene.M@...Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 8:07 PMiodine Subject: Re: Re: OT - traditional cultures

Well, that is kind of the point. The modern diet didn't consist of only the bad stuff then or now. Even in the US today people eat other things besides junk one in a while. But like you said in the cities where where they ate a lot of food brought in they had dental problems. They likely ate some problematic food every day. Everywhere in the book it seems that primitive people got into trouble when they adopted a diet similar to the modern diet as opposed to eating the occasional junk. As I said before, according to the book it seems that the primitives got into trouble when they ate a "largely modern diet" or subsisted solely on the food provided by the government. No where can I find an instance where he talks about major problems where they only occasionally used modern food. Although I suspect some people might have had some problems with only a little modern food.IreneAt 10:45 AM 7/12/2006, you wrote:>"It is, however, provided with modern nutrition consisting of an>abundance of white-flour products, marmalades, jams, canned vegetables,>confections, and fruits--all of which are transported to the district.">>"In almost all the other parts of Switzerland in which the population is>large 95 to 98 per cent of the people suffer from dental caries. Of the>two remaining districts, in one there is from 90 to 95 per cent and in>the other from 85 to 90 per cent individual susceptibility to dental>caries.">>OK, so the food that was transportable at the time was "white-flour>products", jams and confections,>and canned vegies. In the cities, there weren't so many farms. But I>find it highly doubtful that people were living off that menu. In>Switzerland today even,>there are open-air markets and people buy fresh produce for dinner,>along with>sausages and meats. In the 1920's, that was even more true: people just>didn't>live off canned vegies except maybe in winter. And jams go with bread!

[Guest guest]

I can't say I find anything to disagree with here.

I am not sure how this follows from my post but that is OK.

I agree that Dr. Price would most likely be totally appalled if not

alarmed at our food supply today.

My original point was simply that I couldn't find an example in NAPD (but

I am not finished looking yet), where only a small amount of modern food

introduced cause large problems in Natives. Might be there. Haven't found

it yet.

But I appreciate the rant. I too am totally appalled and alarmed at our

food supply and I wish the majority of Americans cared more about food.

Irene

At 06:37 PM 7/12/2006, you wrote:

I

have been following this for awhile so I have to say something. In

the USA today I can think of very little food purchased in grocery stores

that is not junk. The milk is ultra pasteurized so has very little

nutrition as everything has been killed and then to make up for that they

add back synthetic vitamins not to mention they live in huge barns where

they are unable to move and have been shot up with growth hormones to

make them produce 5 times the amount they are suppose to produce which

causes a lifespan of about 3-5 years vs. the normal 15.. They even

cut off their tails. The meats are from cows, chickens, pigs that

have been shot up with hormones, lived in inhumane conditions and not

allowed to move, put in feed lots and fed grains that cause the meat to

be devoid of necessary nutrients like CLA, and beta-carotene.

Even the fruits and vegetables have a very good possibility of being

genetically modified and if they aren’t that they are loaded with

pesticides. Even the spices are irradiated. Of course most

people don’t know this. Then we could move on to the breads,

cheese, cereals that extruded and therefore toxic. Of course we all know

about the junk food that is all made with soybean or cottonseed oil

and/or hydrogenated oils. Even lard has had hydrogenated oils added

to it. So, I ask, what food are you talking about that is any

good? Then we could go into the fats and the vegetable oils they

have every one convinced is good for them but is quite the opposite., not

to mention almost all salad dressings are made with Canola oil which is

chemically modified rapeseed oil that Canada pawned off as good oil and

finally paid off the FDA for 50 million dollars in order to sell it

to our country.

Sorry, if I sound belligerent but I can’t

find too many healthy foods in our food chain these days unless you

search out good sources which are most likely from a farmer,

etc.

So, how lucky we are as a nation to have

health at all but if you look at the statistics most people are not

healthy at all but have learned to accept most illness and disease as

normal. Back when Dr. Price was doing his research our food

was not nearly as contaminated as it is today and the results then were

pretty significant. Imagine what he would find today!!

Just my opinion.

Allyn

PRIORITY INVESTMENTS N'

KOLLATERAL,INC.

ALLYN FERRIS

PRESIDENT

AFERRIS@...

4548A

WEST VILLAGE DR.

TAMPA, FL 33624

tel: 813-961-1500

fax: 813-996-9571

mobile: 813-391-7965

Add

me to your address book...

Want a signature like this?

From: iodine

[mailto:iodine ]

On Behalf Of Irene.M@...

Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 8:07 PM

iodine

Subject: Re: Re: OT - traditional cultures

Well, that is kind of the point. The

modern diet didn't consist of only the

bad stuff then or now. Even in the US today people eat other things

besides

junk one in a while. But like you said in the cities where where they ate

a

lot of food brought in they had dental problems. They likely ate some

problematic food every day. Everywhere in the book it seems that

primitive

people got into trouble when they adopted a diet similar to the modern

diet

as opposed to eating the occasional junk. As I said before, according to

the book it seems that the primitives got into trouble when they ate a

" largely modern diet " or subsisted solely on the food provided

by the

government. No where can I find an instance where he talks about major

problems where they only occasionally used modern food. Although I

suspect

some people might have had some problems with only a little modern

food.

Irene

At 10:45 AM 7/12/2006, you wrote:

> " It is, however, provided with modern nutrition consisting of

an

>abundance of white-flour products, marmalades, jams, canned

vegetables,

>confections, and fruits--all of which are transported to the

district. "

>

> " In almost all the other parts of Switzerland in which the

population is

>large 95 to 98 per cent of the people suffer from dental caries. Of

the

>two remaining districts, in one there is from 90 to 95 per cent and

in

>the other from 85 to 90 per cent individual susceptibility to

dental

>caries. "

>

>OK, so the food that was transportable at the time was

" white-flour

>products " , jams and confections,

>and canned vegies. In the cities, there weren't so many farms. But

I

>find it highly doubtful that people were living off that menu.

In

>Switzerland today even,

>there are open-air markets and people buy fresh produce for

dinner,

>along with

>sausages and meats. In the 1920's, that was even more true: people

just

>didn't

>live off canned vegies except maybe in winter. And jams go with

bread!

[Guest guest]

Hard to get away from the toxins.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/companies/management/2005-11-16-dupont-usat_x.htm

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1594/is_5_14/ai_108149592/pg_6

--- " comdyne@... " <comdyne@...> wrote:

> Well if you must get huffy, check this out:

>

> http://www.themeatrix.com/

>

> -- Re: Re: OT - traditional cultures

>

> Well, that is kind of the point. The modern diet didn't consist of only the

> bad stuff then or now. Even in the US today people eat other things besides

> junk one in a while. But like you said in the cities where where they ate a

> lot of food brought in they had dental problems. They likely ate some

> problematic food every day. Everywhere in the book it seems that primitive

> people got into trouble when they adopted a diet similar to the modern diet

> as opposed to eating the occasional junk. As I said before, according to

> the book it seems that the primitives got into trouble when they ate a

> " largely modern diet " or subsisted solely on the food provided by the

> government. No where can I find an instance where he talks about major

> problems where they only occasionally used modern food. Although I suspect

> some people might have had some problems with only a little modern food.

> Irene

>

> At 10:45 AM 7/12/2006, you wrote:

> > " It is, however, provided with modern nutrition consisting of an

> >abundance of white-flour products, marmalades, jams, canned vegetables,

> >confections, and fruits--all of which are transported to the district. "

> >

> > " In almost all the other parts of Switzerland in which the population is

> >large 95 to 98 per cent of the people suffer from dental caries. Of the

> >two remaining districts, in one there is from 90 to 95 per cent and in

> >the other from 85 to 90 per cent individual susceptibility to dental

> >caries. "

> >

> >OK, so the food that was transportable at the time was " white-flour

> >products " , jams and confections,

> >and canned vegies. In the cities, there weren't so many farms. But I

> >find it highly doubtful that people were living off that menu. In

> >Switzerland today even,

> >there are open-air markets and people buy fresh produce for dinner,

> >along with

> >sausages and meats. In the 1920's, that was even more true: people just

> >didn't

> >live off canned vegies except maybe in winter. And jams go with bread!

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I have seen the meatrix and the storewars

and enjoyed them both. LOL

Allyn

PRIORITY INVESTMENTS N' KOLLATERAL,INC.

ALLYN FERRIS

PRESIDENT

AFERRIS@...

4548A WEST

VILLAGE DR.

TAMPA, FL 33624

tel: 813-961-1500

fax: 813-996-9571

mobile: 813-391-7965

Add me to your address book... Want a signature like this?

From: iodine [mailto:iodine ] On Behalf Of comdyne@...

Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006

10:46 PM

iodine

Subject: RE: Re: OT -

traditional cultures

Well if you must get huffy, check this out:

http://www.themeatrix.com/

-- Re: Re: OT -

traditional cultures

Well,

that is kind of the point. The modern diet didn't consist of only the

bad stuff then or now. Even in the US today people eat

other things besides

junk one in a while. But like you said in the cities where where they ate a

lot of food brought in they had dental problems. They likely ate some

problematic food every day. Everywhere in the book it seems that primitive

people got into trouble when they adopted a diet similar to the modern diet

as opposed to eating the occasional junk. As I said before, according to

the book it seems that the primitives got into trouble when they ate a

" largely modern diet " or subsisted solely on the food provided by

the

government. No where can I find an instance where he talks about major

problems where they only occasionally used modern food. Although I suspect

some people might have had some problems with only a little modern food.

Irene

At 10:45 AM 7/12/2006, you wrote:

> " It is, however, provided with modern nutrition consisting of an

>abundance of white-flour products, marmalades, jams, canned vegetables,

>confections, and fruits--all of which are transported to the

district. "

>

> " In almost all the other parts of Switzerland

in which the population is

>large 95 to 98 per cent of the people suffer from dental caries. Of the

>two remaining districts, in one there is from 90 to 95 per cent and in

>the other from 85 to 90 per cent individual susceptibility to dental

>caries. "

>

>OK, so the food that was transportable at the time was " white-flour

>products " , jams and confections,

>and canned vegies. In the cities, there weren't so many farms. But I

>find it highly doubtful that people were living off that menu. In

>Switzerland

today even,

>there are open-air markets and people buy fresh produce for dinner,

>along with

>sausages and meats. In the 1920's, that was even more true: people just

>didn't

>live off canned vegies except maybe in winter. And jams go with bread!

[Guest guest]

Ditto. Well stated.

Maureen

I have been following this for awhile so I have to say something.

Add me to your address book... Want a signature like this?

From: iodine [mailto:iodine ] On Behalf Of Irene.M@...Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 8:07 PMiodine Subject: Re: Re: OT - traditional cultures

Well, that is kind of the point. The modern diet didn't consist of only the bad stuff then or now. Even in the US today people eat other things besides junk one in a while. But like you said in the cities where where they ate a lot of food brought in they had dental problems. They likely ate some problematic food every day. Everywhere in the book it seems that primitive people got into trouble when they adopted a diet similar to the modern diet as opposed to eating the occasional junk. As I said before, according to the book it seems that the primitives got into trouble when they ate a "largely modern diet" or subsisted solely on the food provided by the government. No where can I find an instance where he talks about major problems where they only occasionally used modern food. Although I suspect some people might have had some problems with only a little modern food.IreneAt 10:45 AM 7/12/2006, you wrote:>"It is, however, provided with modern nutrition consisting of an>abundance of white-flour products, marmalades, jams, canned vegetables,>confections, and fruits--all of which are transported to the district.">>"In almost all the other parts of Switzerland in which the population is>large 95 to 98 per cent of the people suffer from dental caries. Of the>two remaining districts, in one there is from 90 to 95 per cent and in>the other from 85 to 90 per cent individual susceptibility to dental>caries.">>OK, so the food that was transportable at the time was "white-flour>products", jams and confections,>and canned vegies. In the cities, there weren't so many farms. But I>find it highly doubtful that people were living off that menu. In>Switzerland today even,>there are open-air markets and people buy fresh produce for dinner,>along with>sausages and meats. In the 1920's, that was even more true: people just>didn't>live off canned vegies except maybe in winter. And jams go with bread!

[Guest guest]

I hadn't seen these before.  Thanks for sending those.  I just sent both those out to a ton of people I know.  My daughter loved it.LinnOn Jul 12, 2006, at 9:55 PM, comdyne@... wrote:And then there is this:   http://www.storewars.org/flash/index.HTML  -------Original Message------- From: ALLYN FERRISDate: 07/12/06 22:14:22iodine Subject: RE: Re: OT - traditional cultures I have been following this for awhile so I have to say something.  In the USA today I can think of very little food purchased in grocery stores that is not junk.  The milk is ultra pasteurized so has very little nutrition as everything has been killed and then to make up for that they add back synthetic 

[Guest guest]

Irene.M@... wrote:

> Well, that is kind of the point. The modern diet didn't consist of only the

> bad stuff then or now. Even in the US today people eat other things besides

> junk one in a while. But like you said in the cities where where they ate a

> lot of food brought in they had dental problems. They likely ate some

> problematic food every day. Everywhere in the book it seems that primitive

> people got into trouble when they adopted a diet similar to the modern diet

> as opposed to eating the occasional junk. As I said before, according to

> the book it seems that the primitives got into trouble when they ate a

> " largely modern diet " or subsisted solely on the food provided by the

> government. No where can I find an instance where he talks about major

> problems where they only occasionally used modern food. Although I suspect

> some people might have had some problems with only a little modern food.

> Irene

>

Right. Which is what I was trying to say, sort of. Price is a great

jumping-off

point, and the pics and thoughts are invaluable, but there isn't enough

info there to do a really detailed, scientific study by today's standards.

Plus he didn't have the tools (blood tests etc.) and they didn't do

detailed food logs in those days. But it's invaluable because the

food supply and environment was soooo different in those days.

And if you take his work PLUS some good history sleuthing

and observations from previous food-historians and doctors

AND the more modern lab results, you get a really interesting

picture of what has happened to the health of human beings.

Also keep in mind that what Price called a " largely modern diet "

isn't anything near what we call a " modern diet " . When you

read the old cookbooks, or better, try to cook out of one,

you can see the difference. Price's " modern diet " was more like

what people in the US eat if they are on a health-food kick,

or what you might get at a good farmhouse in Provence.

Pretty much all organic food, home-cooked ... but the " good "

diet had fish livers, milk (in some cultures)

and whole grain (and not wheat in the

native cultures) bread, while the " bad " diet had no fish livers

and white bread, and some amount of sugary stuff (but far,

far less sugary stuff than we eat today).

What Price did NOT include is also very interesting ...

he didn't include the rice-eating Asians. Which is a

huge population to exclude. Most Asians at that time

were still eating white rice, which is just as non-nutritious

as white bread, and ate zero dairy, but they had (and have

today, if they eat a non-Western diet) straight teeth and

wide faces and few cavities. But the Asian cultures do tend to include

a lot of fish and seaweed, and not much wheat.

Actually if you look for a commonality of all the

healthy cultures he writes about (except the Plains Indians and

the Swiss), the common food they DO eat is FISH. Plus he

experimented a lot with cod liver oil himself. People who

live near the sea tend to eat seaweed too, I think the US

is odd in NOT eating it. So that puts you back into

looking at vitamin D and iodine:

" During these investigations of primitive races, I have been impressed

with the superior quality of the

human stock developed by Nature wherever a liberal source of sea foods

existed. These zones of

abundant marine life were largely in the wake of the ocean currents

drifting from the ice fields of the

poles. The Humboldt Current is probably the most liberal carrier of

marine life of any of the ocean

currents. It leaves the ice field of the Antarctic and bathes the west

coast of South America from its

southern tip nearly to the equator, where the coast line changes

direction and the Humboldt Current is

deflected out into the ocean. It meets here a warm current coming down

from the coast of Central

America, Panama and Columbia. If the superb physiques that Nature has

established among the Maori of

New Zealand, the Malays of the Islands north of Australia, the Gaelics

of the Outer Hebrides and the

natives on several of the archipelagos of the Pacific, owe their

superior physical development to sea

foods ... "

....

When it is recognized that in the Sierra the available water is largely

that provided to the

streams from the melting snows and from rains in the rainy season, it

will be realized that these sources

of fresh water could not provide the liberal quantity of iodine

essential for human growth and

development. It was, accordingly, a matter of great interest to discover

that these Indians used regularly

dried fish eggs from the sea. Commerce in these dried foods is carried

on today as it no doubt has been

for centuries. When I inquired of them why they used this material they

explained that it was necessary

to maintain the fertility of their women.

(Chapter 15).

(And of course I'll point out that the food they have in common that

they DON'T eat is wheat ... :-)

-- Heidi

>

>