Re: Armour and chest pains

[Guest guest]

Have you had your adrenal function tested? if your adrenals are worn out

from being on Levoxyl for years, then when you switch to Armour and get the

T3 you've been missing for so long, can give you symptoms.

And no, the standard dosage equivalents are not accurate at all. Average

replacement dose of Armour is between 3 and 5 grains (180 mg. to 300 mg.)

Best,

Handcrafted Jewelry ~ http://www.ChestnutHillDesigns.com

Curly Horse Rescue ~ http://www.CurlyRescue.com

~If you can stay calm, while all around you is chaos...then

you probably haven't completely understood the situation.~

~Flashlights are tubular metal containers for the

purpose of storing dead batteries.~

Armour and chest pains

> So I switched to Armour about a week ago. I was on 125mcg of Levoxyl and

> started on 1 1/2 grains of Armour. Everything was fine for about 5 days

when

> very mild chest pains started... I had started some new supplements so I

> thought that might be the problem so I stopped them. I have been losing

some

> hair also for few days..just a lot in the sink.

>

> I upped the dosage to 2 grains today to see if that might be the problem.

I

> still have a mild chest pain now. My thought is that chest pain equals

> inadequate T hormone. If I need even more, my question is How can Armour

be so

> off in terms of the amount of hormone as compared to Levoxyl if indeed

that is

> the case?

>

> I tried Armour a year ago and had chest pains. I was taking less then

than I

> am now though.

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

24 hr urine test for cortisol shows high coritsol, so adrenals are not worn out

yet. I have been on Levoxyl for 11 months.

--- Ives <mives@...> wrote:

> Have you had your adrenal function tested? if your adrenals are worn out

> from being on Levoxyl for years, then when you switch to Armour and get the

> T3 you've been missing for so long, can give you symptoms.

>

> And no, the standard dosage equivalents are not accurate at all. Average

> replacement dose of Armour is between 3 and 5 grains (180 mg. to 300 mg.)

>

> Best,

>

> Handcrafted Jewelry ~ http://www.ChestnutHillDesigns.com

> Curly Horse Rescue ~ http://www.CurlyRescue.com

>

> ~If you can stay calm, while all around you is chaos...then

> you probably haven't completely understood the situation.~

> ~Flashlights are tubular metal containers for the

> purpose of storing dead batteries.~

>

> Armour and chest pains

>

>

> > So I switched to Armour about a week ago. I was on 125mcg of Levoxyl and

> > started on 1 1/2 grains of Armour. Everything was fine for about 5 days

> when

> > very mild chest pains started... I had started some new supplements so I

> > thought that might be the problem so I stopped them. I have been losing

> some

> > hair also for few days..just a lot in the sink.

> >

> > I upped the dosage to 2 grains today to see if that might be the problem.

> I

> > still have a mild chest pain now. My thought is that chest pain equals

> > inadequate T hormone. If I need even more, my question is How can Armour

> be so

> > off in terms of the amount of hormone as compared to Levoxyl if indeed

> that is

> > the case?

> >

> > I tried Armour a year ago and had chest pains. I was taking less then

> than I

> > am now though.

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >

[Guest guest]

They are on the way. That is stage 2 of adrenal fatigue.

Best,

Handcrafted Jewelry ~ http://www.ChestnutHillDesigns.com

Curly Horse Rescue ~ http://www.CurlyRescue.com

~If you can stay calm, while all around you is chaos...then

you probably haven't completely understood the situation.~

~Flashlights are tubular metal containers for the

purpose of storing dead batteries.~

Armour and chest pains

> >

> >

> > > So I switched to Armour about a week ago. I was on 125mcg of Levoxyl

and

> > > started on 1 1/2 grains of Armour. Everything was fine for about 5

days

> > when

> > > very mild chest pains started... I had started some new supplements so

I

> > > thought that might be the problem so I stopped them. I have been

losing

> > some

> > > hair also for few days..just a lot in the sink.

> > >

> > > I upped the dosage to 2 grains today to see if that might be the

problem.

> > I

> > > still have a mild chest pain now. My thought is that chest pain

equals

> > > inadequate T hormone. If I need even more, my question is How can

Armour

> > be so

> > > off in terms of the amount of hormone as compared to Levoxyl if indeed

> > that is

> > > the case?

> > >

> > > I tried Armour a year ago and had chest pains. I was taking less then

> > than I

> > > am now though.

> > >

> > > __________________________________________________

> > >

[Guest guest]

From: " " <kennio@...

> So I switched to Armour about a week ago. I was on 125mcg of Levoxyl and

> started on 1 1/2 grains of Armour. Everything was fine for about 5 days

when

> very mild chest pains started... I had started some new supplements so I

> thought that might be the problem so I stopped them. I have been losing

some

> hair also for few days..just a lot in the sink.

>

> I upped the dosage to 2 grains today to see if that might be the problem.

I

> still have a mild chest pain now. My thought is that chest pain equals

> inadequate T hormone. If I need even more, my question is How can Armour

be so

> off in terms of the amount of hormone as compared to Levoxyl if indeed

that is

> the case?

>

> I tried Armour a year ago and had chest pains. I was taking less then

than I

> am now though.

Is your chest pain something like a palpitation? The T3 in Armour has a

short half life, estimates vary, but it's measured in hours. If you're

taking all 2 grains in one dose, you're probably hitting yourself with too

much T3 at one time, and you can get very uncomfortable feelings when that

happens. Try multi-dosing. Take it in a minimum of 2 doses; I found I did

best in 4 doses when I started going above 2 grains a day. Even when

someone has been on levoxyl, it's recommended to start the Armour dosing at

even lower levels than you have and then gradually raise up, to allow the

body to get used to getting T3.

If you're losing hair in the sink, you're probably still quite hypo and will

need more Armour. It's not that Armour is off in the amount of hormone,

it's that the conversion charts aren't very accurate. But you need to be

patient in getting to the dose you need.

Also, do you know what your serum ferritin level is? A too low level (less

than 70) can also explain difficulty with T3.

Lynn M.

[Guest guest]

>From: <kennio@...>

>24 hr urine test for cortisol shows high coritsol, so adrenals are not worn

>out

>yet. I have been on Levoxyl for 11 months.

Supposedly the 24 hour test really isn't for insufficiency. You would need

the AM cortisol (taken before 8AM) or the stimulation test. These are about

as reliable as TSH is for thyroid. (Not very.)

Some will tell you that for some the first stage of adrenal exhaustion is

high cortisol. However, some people simply have high cortisol levels. My

wife's has been high for many years.

Also, I think I've gotten the indication that you work out a lot, and most

athletes have higher cortisol levels.

Don't forget excessive levels can mean Cushing's Syndrome, but if you do a

lot of athletic activity, that could explain the high cortisol all by

itself.

That would also explain your need for magnesium as high cortisol depletes

magnesium. (Allegedly, low cortisol retains it, but most adrenal fatigue

doctors try to give people more. It causes me additional fatigue.)

As for heart palps on thyroid meds, don't forget that calcium contracts the

heart and magnesium relaxes it, so if you get too far out of calcium /

magnesium balance it can cause trouble too. Also don't forget that calcium,

magnesium, iron, and other minerals taken within a couple hours of thyroid

meds hinder the hormone's absorption.

Chest pain is common in hypothyroidism.

Vitamin C is also important to adrenal function, and I suspect high cortisol

also pushed that out.

Something called phosphatidylserine is good for lowering cortisol levels.

It helps greatly with brain function too. Which can help stop the headaches

high cortisol people tend to get.

Skipper

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[Guest guest]

this happened to me (i.e., chest pain) when I started natural thyroid. I needed to stop the thyroid for a day or two, start the adrenal support, then re-start with Armour. Chest pain is an adrenal stress symptom for me (and probably for you, too.)

Also, BTW, if you hate this new format, you can go to your groups page and on the homepage for this list switch your preferences back to " Traditional " format, then click " save changes " at the bottom of the page. I did it for over 30 of my lists. Yep, one by one...

....

On 7/4/06, <kennio@...> wrote:

So I switched to Armour about a week ago. I was on 125mcg of Levoxyl andstarted on 1 1/2 grains of Armour. Everything was fine for about 5 days whenvery mild chest pains started...

..

[Guest guest]

From: " Skipper Beers " <lsb149@...>

>Supposedly the 24 hour test really isn't for insufficiency. You would need

> the AM cortisol (taken before 8AM) or the stimulation test. These are

about

> as reliable as TSH is for thyroid. (Not very.)

> Skipper

I don't understand why you say the 24 hr. cortisol test really isn't for

insufficiency, or that is as reliable as TSH is for thyroid. The adrenal

glands release cortisol throughout the day in a pulsatile manner in amounts

highly variable in time and in response to the stresses of the day.

Measuring the amounts excreted over a 24 hr. period is much more reflective

of cortisol sufficiency than a single snapshot in time, as the AM cortisol

test would be. The ACTH stimulation test is not sensitive enough to capture

moderate adrenal insufficiency. The TSH test actually is very sensitive at

measuring TSH, it's just that TSH is only an indirect measure of thyroid

function, since it's actually a pituitary hormone, not a thyroid hormone,

whereas cortisol is a hormone produced directly by the gland of interest,

the adrenals.

I think the most accurate test of adrenal sufficiency is the 24 hr. hormone

panel by AAL Reference labs. Amng other things, it measures adrenal

metabolites and total cortisol/cortisone output.

Lynn

[Guest guest]

>From: " Lynn McGaha " <lmcgaha@...>

>I don't understand why you say the 24 hr. cortisol test really isn't for

>insufficiency,

I could be wrong. However, below are some sources. Doctors today have

trouble reading between the lines. The 24 hour test does tell you some

things, or course. Does it tell you that at 8Am it's @6 units, when it's

supposed to be at the highest point of the day, and at 12PM it's still at

the same level? No it doesn't, not a perfect test and there really isn't

one.

http://www.labcorp.com/datasets/labcorp/html/chapter/mono/sr011300.htm

Cortisol, Urinary Free, by ICMA

Evaluate adrenal cortical function, especially hyperfunction; evaluate obese

or hypertensive subjects with glucose intolerance, plethora, round face,

hirsutism, striae, backache, irregular menses in various combinations, most

of whom do not have Cushing syndrome.1

Low values do not necessarily mean adrenal hypofunction.

http://www.merck.com/mrkshared/mmanual/section2/chapter9/9b.jsp

A single determination of plasma cortisol or 24-h urinary-free cortisol

excretion is not useful and may be misleading in diagnosing adrenal

insufficiency.

http://enotes.tripod.com/adrenainsuff.htm

The urinary free cortisol excretion rate has become a valuable index of

adrenal hyperfunction. It is less reliable for the detection of

hypoadrenalism.

************************************************

or that is as reliable as TSH is for thyroid. The adrenal

>glands release cortisol throughout the day in a pulsatile manner in amounts

>highly variable in time and in response to the stresses of the day.

>Measuring the amounts excreted over a 24 hr. period is much more reflective

>of cortisol sufficiency than a single snapshot in time, as the AM cortisol

>test would be.

Yes, but as I'm sure you realize it doesn't tell you the snapshot values at

the various times of day, so you could have high cortisol at night, but not

in the morning. Which could cause trouble sleeping at night, and

functioning during the day. Also, if the morning value is around normal,

but it never decreases, it doesn't tell you that. Yet, you suffer because

of the trend.

It is also going to be higher if you have a stressful day, and lower if you

don't. Normal values are somewhat relative because of that. If the " normal

values " are taken when people are under stress, and you spend the day

sleeping, yours would be artificially low. So, what are people doing while

they're taking these tests?

>I think the most accurate test of adrenal sufficiency is the 24 hr. hormone

>panel by AAL Reference labs. Amng other things, it measures adrenal

>metabolites and total cortisol/cortisone output.

You can think that. And maybe you even think correctly. But, as I said

it's not a perfect test.

I was diagnosed by AM cortisol, as suggested in the book " From Fatigued to

Fantastic " my cortisol level was under 12, so I asked for hydrocortisone and

specific symptoms went away.

Skipper

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[Guest guest]

I agree. It's the only one that was accurate for me.

http://www.antibodyassay.com

Gracia

> I think the most accurate test of adrenal sufficiency is the 24 hr.

> hormone

> panel by AAL Reference labs. Amng other things, it measures adrenal

> metabolites and total cortisol/cortisone output.

>

> Lynn

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>From: " Gracia " <circe@...>

>I agree. It's the only one that was accurate for me.

>http://www.antibodyassay.com

>Gracia

You take hydrocortisone, so I assume it diagnosed you as low?

Labs are a mater of interpretation. On an AM cortisol test, my lab's range

was 2 to 22, which means it's almost impossible to be abnormally low.

However, " From Fatigued to Fantastic " author said an AM cortisol under 12

would justify a trial of hydrocortisone. It is true that most doctors don't

know how to interpret labs since all they do is look at the " normal " or

" reference " ranges which have nothing to do with optimal levels.

Would Teitalbaum's theory of AM cortisol less than 12, also have been

diagnostic for you?

Skipper

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