Re: Iodine and supporting supplements -MAG

[Guest guest]

>

I was advised to take magnesium salt baths 2 or 3 times a week, and

that it would be absorbed through the skin.

Is this a good way or doubtful, i still take magnesium sups as well.

Also the calcium/magnesium balance. How do we know we are not making

ourselves even more unbalanced if we just take magnesium and not in a

balanced formula with calcium. I have high tissue calcium and told not

to have calcium supps, so do you think i would need iv mag to correct

something like that. I've also heard about something called

transdermal magnesium, that you apply to skin and supposed to get

levels up quickly, but not sure how good it really is.

[Guest guest]

From what I have read epsom salt baths do raise mag levels dramatically. One

researcher says that since this removes the safety mechanisms of the GI tract

protecting against too high a level of serum magnesium that one should not soak

for extended periods of time. This might cause temporary lethergy... calcium

pills would reverse this.

The Balance issue is a concern for sure. Remember we are here supplementing

Iodine and detoxing because of it. Magnesium is called for during this

protocol. You need to determine with testing whether after you are done with

this whether or not you need a higher ratio of magnesium to calcium. I don't

supplement calcium at all and my RBC testing shows normal calcium. My chest

x-rays do not show calcium deposits anymore after 2 years of mag supplementing.

Maybe after the excess tissue calcium is taken care of I will need to

supplement.

If you can't absorb the magnesium and you know you are deficient then IV's

would be an option.

--- <slyan2007@...> wrote:

>

> >

>

>

> I was advised to take magnesium salt baths 2 or 3 times a week, and

> that it would be absorbed through the skin.

> Is this a good way or doubtful, i still take magnesium sups as well.

> Also the calcium/magnesium balance. How do we know we are not making

> ourselves even more unbalanced if we just take magnesium and not in a

> balanced formula with calcium. I have high tissue calcium and told not

> to have calcium supps, so do you think i would need iv mag to correct

> something like that. I've also heard about something called

> transdermal magnesium, that you apply to skin and supposed to get

> levels up quickly, but not sure how good it really is.

>

>

>

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

From: " " <kennio@...>

Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 3:44 PM

> oral absorption is the issue. Magnesium supplementing can cause potassium

> deficiencies to be exacerbated and potassium deficiency causes diarrhea.

> Is it

> lack of taurine? Is detoxing making you dehydrated? Many things to

> explore.

******

There is no way that I would hold myself up as an authority, but I do have a

Certificate in Nutrition from the U of Penn.

In the course of my studies, over 20 yrs ago, one fact I was taught is that

" magnesium *raises* potassium " . This is still in my notes.

And from personal experience, I have found that even a slight *excess* of

potassium can cause diarrhea.

However, these may be just generalizations that would not apply to every

'body', because once one starts learning about metabolic balancing, one

finds that any mineral will affect differing metabolic states in different

(and sometimes opposite) ways.

Other than this small disagreement (or perhaps, a question), I think 's

mag info is very good, and that most people ARE deficient.

However, as always, it's good to remember the old adage that " one man's meat

is another man's poison " .

Sharon/starshar

[Guest guest]

> And from personal experience, I have found that even a slight *excess*

of

> potassium can cause diarrhea.

-----> Sharon do you have more you could say on this one. I've wondered

about throwing off the potassium balance with the salt? But are you

saying the Mag might be throwing it off in some of us?

So potassium may control peristalsis and low levels could be a reason

for the constipation????

Lynn

[Guest guest]

From: " Lynn " <lyn122@...>

Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 9:34 PM

>> And from personal experience, I have found that even a slight *excess*

> of potassium can cause diarrhea.

>

> -----> Sharon do you have more you could say on this one. I've wondered

> about throwing off the potassium balance with the salt? But are you

> saying the Mag might be throwing it off in some of us?

>

> So potassium may control peristalsis and low levels could be a reason

> for the constipation????

******

Potassium definitly has a connection to peristalsis. I base that statement

on the writings of Adele , either her " Eat Right.... " or " Let's Get

Well " .

Everyone should own these wonderful old books. BTW, she also has a great

chapter on Iodine.

There is newer research, of course, but the basics are here, and I pick up

these books every so often to refresh my memory.

She wrote about discomfort from trapped gases in the *lower* abdomen (from

memory here) signifying a need for potassium. I looked that up one time when

I was experiencing just that sort of discomfort and had no idea why. I

immediately took potassium and in a short time, the discomfort was history.

Getting enthusiastic, as usual, over this discovery I then took potassium on

a daily basis for almost a month until daily diarrhea was a problem. I then

had to figure out the cause of that! I had gotten unbalanced with a K

(potassium elemental symbol) excess.

I usually require more sodium, but I also have overdone that on occasion.

Tricky business, all these minerals. Too bad we can't trust our food sources

to supply our needs!

I used to have frequent hair analyses, though the budget right now prevents

it. At one time, my magnesium levels were way too high in relation to almost

every other mineral tested. I had overdone the Mg supplementation. That

happened quite awhile ago, so I don't recall what symptoms I was

experiencing because of it. Fatigue, though, has been the chief complaint

for ages.

I am STILL seeking a " perfect " mineral supplement. Yes, I've tried

Concentrace and it doesn't agree with me---probably because there is almost

no sodium.

Sharon/starshar

[Guest guest]

What about ionic magnesium, like that found in this product:

http://www.pureessencelabs.com/ionic_magnesium_fizz.php

I don't know enough about how it is absorbed to know if this is good or not. I know this company (Pure Essence) has a couple very popular products, like their Candex for Candida.

Thanks,

Olif

[Guest guest]

>From: " Lynn " <lyn122@...>

>Reply-iodine

>iodine

>Subject: Re: Iodine and supporting supplements -MAG

>Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 02:34:02 -0000

>

> > And from personal experience, I have found that even a slight *excess*

>of

> > potassium can cause diarrhea.

>

>-----> Sharon do you have more you could say on this one. I've wondered

>about throwing off the potassium balance with the salt? But are you

>saying the Mag might be throwing it off in some of us?

>

>So potassium may control peristalsis and low levels could be a reason

>for the constipation????

Which could indicate an adrenal problem.

Low adrenals cause low sodium / high potassium.

High adrenals cause high sodium / low potassium.

Adrenals are hard to quantify. It makes sense the 24 hour cortisol would

actually be good for detecting high / low cortisol levels, yet some sources

say it's good for detecting Cushing's only.

Of course, saliva advocates will say the 24 hour will tell you the overall

level, but not high or low at particular times of day.

But, high or low cortisol as well as aldosterone will mess with sodium /

potassium balance.

Seems like , the magnesium advocate also mentioned taking potassium?

Skipper

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[Guest guest]

>From: " starshar " <starshar@...>

>There is no way that I would hold myself up as an authority, but I do have

>a

>Certificate in Nutrition from the U of Penn.

>In the course of my studies, over 20 yrs ago, one fact I was taught is that

> " magnesium *raises* potassium " . This is still in my notes.

Probably because magnesium helps to calm down high cortisol, something

admits he has. High cortisol actually pushes out magnesium, something that

obviously causes deficiency, and taking magnesium will help calm down

cortisol.

Skipper

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[Guest guest]

>From: <kennio@...>

>From what I have read epsom salt baths do raise mag levels dramatically.

>One

>researcher says that since this removes the safety mechanisms of the GI

>tract

>protecting against too high a level of serum magnesium that one should not

>soak

>for extended periods of time. This might cause temporary lethergy...

>calcium

>pills would reverse this.

That's what I experienced after one epsom salts bath. Extreme lethargy for

about 24 hours. I was trying to encourage my magnesium deficient wife to do

the same, but she refused. At least she started taking magnesium

supplements, and feels much better on them. I assumed the bath would be

good for me, as the adrenal experts claim those with low adrenals need

magnesium too. I don't really understand that, as cortisol pushed magnesium

out, and sites say that those with low cortisol tend to have high magnesium,

which is at least confirmed by blood tests. (I know it's not at 's

cellular level, but my high cortisol wife has low serum magnesium and low

cortisol me had high levels. That plus the effect magnesium has on me

convinces me.) However, I feel the lethargy with magnesium supplementation

too. There's no question in my mind it has an adverse effect on me, and I

think it's due to my low cortisol levels.

Skipper

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

>

> From: " " <kennio@...>

> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 3:44 PM

>

> > oral absorption is the issue. Magnesium supplementing can cause

potassium

> > deficiencies to be exacerbated and potassium deficiency causes

diarrhea.

> > Is it

> > lack of taurine? Is detoxing making you dehydrated? Many

things to

> > explore.

> ******

>

> There is no way that I would hold myself up as an authority, but I

do have a

> Certificate in Nutrition from the U of Penn.

> In the course of my studies, over 20 yrs ago, one fact I was

taught is that

> " magnesium *raises* potassium " . This is still in my notes.

>

> And from personal experience, I have found that even a slight

*excess* of

> potassium can cause diarrhea.

> However, these may be just generalizations that would not apply to

every

> 'body', because once one starts learning about metabolic

balancing, one

> finds that any mineral will affect differing metabolic states in

different

> (and sometimes opposite) ways.

>

> Other than this small disagreement (or perhaps, a question), I

think 's

> mag info is very good, and that most people ARE deficient.

> However, as always, it's good to remember the old adage that " one

man's meat

> is another man's poison " .

>

> Sharon/starshar

>

*******

Thank you for this.

I only wanted to add that when I began taking Iodoral constipation

was such a problem for me (it had not been previously) that I had to

stop taking Iodoral until I found a solution. That solution was:

Oxy-Powder (an ozonated magnesium +) put out by Oxygen Research

Group. This was over six months ago. I followed their protocol

only twice and it resolved the problem and I have not felt the need

to use the product again. I still have 1/2 of a bottle of it left.

Powerful stuff; that I think may be counter-productive if taken

continuously but, for me, at the time it was just what I needed.

Abbe

[Guest guest]

>

Skipper that's what i had heard magnesium pushes cortisol lower. So

what a quandry. I have lowish adrenal, probably thyroid, so want to

take iodoral, which i've just started a few days ago, only on 1 so

far. Now i've been told need to take more magnesium to follow that

protocol properly, i need magnesum for high tissue calcium, just

started the baths again, had one last night, did not affect me so maybe

adrenals not that bad. Salt affected me though, in good way, but

causes insomnia, my head is spinning with it all. lol Am i getting too

much potassium, because magnesium also unbalances potassium. potassium

= diarrhea BUT No constipation or diarrhea yet so maybe i should not

worry unless i get any symptoms. Hold on though Magnesium helps sleep

problems, i'm going around in circles. What a balancing act!!lol

[Guest guest]

It is my understanding that folks that are hypothyroid are usually mag.

deficient. I know this is the case for me. I'm also low cortisol, and even

supplementing 1000 mg/day, my serum mag levels were below range. I know

when my mag. levels get too low, because I start with muscle cramping, knots

and trigger points. Getting back on mag. is the only thing to rectify it.

Best,

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http://www.CurlyRescue.com

View my Blog ~ http://shellyct.blogspot.com/

If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself.

What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us.

-- Hermann Hesse

as the adrenal experts claim those with low adrenals need

> magnesium too. I don't really understand that, as cortisol pushed

> magnesium

> out, and sites say that those with low cortisol tend to have high

> magnesium,

> which is at least confirmed by blood tests.

[Guest guest]

>FFrom: " " <slyan2007@...>

>Skipper that's what i had heard magnesium pushes cortisol lower. So

>what a quandry. I have lowish adrenal, probably thyroid, so want to

>take iodoral, which i've just started a few days ago, only on 1 so

>far. Now i've been told need to take more magnesium to follow that

>protocol properly, i need magnesum for high tissue calcium, just

>started the baths again, had one last night, did not affect me so maybe

>adrenals not that bad.

What says is important. Magnesium deficiency can cause a multitude of

problems.

Maybe before you start the magnesium, the solution woud be to take the test

talks about. Also, if you do have high levels of calcium, you may need

the magnesium to offset it.

Besides, the low adrenal " experts " all seem to recommend magnesium. I don't

get it, and know I don't do well when taking magnesium, but blood or

cellular chemistry is probably a bit complicated, which is why one approach

doesn't fit all.

Salt affected me though, in good way, but

>causes insomnia, my head is spinning with it all. lol Am i getting too

>much potassium, because magnesium also unbalances potassium.

Low cortisol would cause potassium to be high in regard to sodium.

If one doesn't know the effect magnesium has, they should probably get

's test.

Skipper

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[Guest guest]

I meant to say:

" Magnesium supplementing can cause potassium deficiency `symptoms' to be

exacerbated and potassium deficiency can cause diarrhea. "

I have said more clearly before that mag supplementing can expose a potassium

deficiency. Rapidly increasing the mag levels may cause the symptoms of an

existing potassium deficiency to become more pronounced initially.

" A magnesium deficiency can cause the body to lose potassium [

1963][MacIntyre][Manitius], possibly because of a poorly understood effect of

magnesium on the efficiency of energy supply to the sodium pump [Fischer]. "

http://charles_w.tripod.com/arthritis8.html

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrient & dbid=90#function

--- starshar <starshar@...> wrote:

> From: " " <kennio@...>

> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 3:44 PM

>

> > oral absorption is the issue. Magnesium supplementing can cause potassium

> > deficiencies to be exacerbated and potassium deficiency causes diarrhea.

> > Is it

> > lack of taurine? Is detoxing making you dehydrated? Many things to

> > explore.

> ******

>

> There is no way that I would hold myself up as an authority, but I do have a

> Certificate in Nutrition from the U of Penn.

> In the course of my studies, over 20 yrs ago, one fact I was taught is that

> " magnesium *raises* potassium " . This is still in my notes.

>

> And from personal experience, I have found that even a slight *excess* of

> potassium can cause diarrhea.

> However, these may be just generalizations that would not apply to every

> 'body', because once one starts learning about metabolic balancing, one

> finds that any mineral will affect differing metabolic states in different

> (and sometimes opposite) ways.

>

> Other than this small disagreement (or perhaps, a question), I think 's

> mag info is very good, and that most people ARE deficient.

> However, as always, it's good to remember the old adage that " one man's meat

> is another man's poison " .

>

> Sharon/starshar

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Sharon

Knowing the perfection of Mother Nature, I wonder if good quality (organic

if it is the right term) sea salt might not have everything in the correct

proportions for a good balance. Of course if we foolishly upset the balance

(by what ever means) it would take some time to get it back in balance.

Any thoughts on this idea.

Cheers Doug

Re: Re: Iodine and supporting supplements -MAG

> From: " Lynn " <lyn122@...>

> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 9:34 PM

>

>>> And from personal experience, I have found that even a slight *excess*

>> of potassium can cause diarrhea.

>>

>> -----> Sharon do you have more you could say on this one. I've wondered

>> about throwing off the potassium balance with the salt? But are you

>> saying the Mag might be throwing it off in some of us?

>>

>> So potassium may control peristalsis and low levels could be a reason

>> for the constipation????

>

> ******

> Potassium definitly has a connection to peristalsis. I base that statement

> on the writings of Adele , either her " Eat Right.... " or " Let's Get

> Well " .

> Everyone should own these wonderful old books. BTW, she also has a great

> chapter on Iodine.

> There is newer research, of course, but the basics are here, and I pick up

> these books every so often to refresh my memory.

>

> She wrote about discomfort from trapped gases in the *lower* abdomen (from

> memory here) signifying a need for potassium. I looked that up one time

> when

> I was experiencing just that sort of discomfort and had no idea why. I

> immediately took potassium and in a short time, the discomfort was

> history.

> Getting enthusiastic, as usual, over this discovery I then took potassium

> on

> a daily basis for almost a month until daily diarrhea was a problem. I

> then

> had to figure out the cause of that! I had gotten unbalanced with a K

> (potassium elemental symbol) excess.

> I usually require more sodium, but I also have overdone that on occasion.

> Tricky business, all these minerals. Too bad we can't trust our food

> sources

> to supply our needs!

>

> I used to have frequent hair analyses, though the budget right now

> prevents

> it. At one time, my magnesium levels were way too high in relation to

> almost

> every other mineral tested. I had overdone the Mg supplementation. That

> happened quite awhile ago, so I don't recall what symptoms I was

> experiencing because of it. Fatigue, though, has been the chief complaint

> for ages.

>

> I am STILL seeking a " perfect " mineral supplement. Yes, I've tried

> Concentrace and it doesn't agree with me---probably because there is

> almost

> no sodium.

>

> Sharon/starshar

>

>

>

>

>

> Iodine

[Guest guest]

>

If people with low adrenal function need more magnesium then

everything makes more sense. Although you have problem with it um.I

wonder why that is. I suppose it is all about listening to your own

body, and its symptoms regardless of what anyone says.

Everything points to me having low magnesium so will carry on with

salt baths unless i get reaction. If i up the iodoral and get bowel

problem then i know my minerals are unbalanced.

Maybe the salt with its own minerals were depleting/unbalancing my

mag levels further that was why i couldn't sleep. who knows lol.

> >FFrom: " " <slyan2007@...>

>

> >Skipper that's what i had heard magnesium pushes cortisol lower.

So

> >what a quandry. I have lowish adrenal, probably thyroid, so want

to

> >take iodoral, which i've just started a few days ago, only on 1 so

> >far. Now i've been told need to take more magnesium to follow that

> >protocol properly, i need magnesum for high tissue calcium, just

> >started the baths again, had one last night, did not affect me so

maybe

> >adrenals not that bad.

>

> What says is important. Magnesium deficiency can cause a

multitude of

> problems.

>

> Maybe before you start the magnesium, the solution woud be to take

the test

> talks about. Also, if you do have high levels of calcium, you

may need

> the magnesium to offset it.

>

> Besides, the low adrenal " experts " all seem to recommend

magnesium. I don't

> get it, and know I don't do well when taking magnesium, but blood

or

> cellular chemistry is probably a bit complicated, which is why one

approach

> doesn't fit all.

>

>

> Salt affected me though, in good way, but

> >causes insomnia, my head is spinning with it all. lol Am i

getting too

> >much potassium, because magnesium also unbalances potassium.

>

> Low cortisol would cause potassium to be high in regard to sodium.

>

> If one doesn't know the effect magnesium has, they should probably

get

> 's test.

>

> Skipper

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Valentine's Day -- Shop for gifts that spell L-O-V-E at MSN

Shopping

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ctId=8323,ptnrid=37,ptnrdata=24095 & tcode=wlmtagline

>

[Guest guest]

> (I know it's not at 's

> cellular level, but my high cortisol wife has low serum magnesium and

low

> cortisol me had high levels. That plus the effect magnesium has on

me

> convinces me.) However, I feel the lethargy with magnesium

supplementation

> too. There's no question in my mind it has an adverse effect on me,

and I

> think it's due to my low cortisol levels.

Me too! Low cortisol, average/high magnesium according to RBC, don't do

well with too much magnesium (heart palpitations).

Sharon

[Guest guest]

As an alternate perspective, my doc wanted me to take epsom salt baths because

he thought my Ph was acidic. From my subjective perspective, it seemed

that I needed more magnesium as I increased my Armour... based on symptoms..

I did not associate magnesium with adrenals though.

Amy

wrote:

If people with low adrenal function need more magnesium then

everything makes more sense.

[Guest guest]

From: " " <kennio@...>

Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 12:30 PM

I will remain on a learning curve with this topic; I guess I've personalized

it to myself, as in Skipper's experience with Mg.

Your mention of the sodium pump brings a question to which I have not yet

found a satisfactory answer. Do you know of Dr Ray Peat? I laughingly call

him " my favorite biochemist " . He's either on the cutting edge or totally out

in left field with some of his pronouncements (though all based on extensive

research).

I used to recieve his newsletter, and one of his topics a few years ago was

debunking the sodium-potassium pump.

I have yet to see a respectable scientist jump on that bandwagon with him,

but some of his other " debunkings " are beginning to take hold with others

(such as ALL oils, including fish, have negative effects-----I'm having a

problem swallowing this one!)

As far as I know, only he and a Gilbert Ling believe this pump theory is

flawed. Just thought you might be interested.

Is there also any chance (that you are aware of) that raising Mg could cause

a sodium deficiency?

Thanks for an interesting topic, and the tie-in to iodine

Sharon/starshar

>I meant to say:

>

> " Magnesium supplementing can cause potassium deficiency `symptoms' to be

> exacerbated and potassium deficiency can cause diarrhea. "

>

> I have said more clearly before that mag supplementing can expose a

> potassium

> deficiency. Rapidly increasing the mag levels may cause the symptoms of

> an

> existing potassium deficiency to become more pronounced initially.

>

> " A magnesium deficiency can cause the body to lose potassium [

> 1963][MacIntyre][Manitius], possibly because of a poorly understood effect

> of

> magnesium on the efficiency of energy supply to the sodium pump [Fischer].

> "

>

> http://charles_w.tripod.com/arthritis8.html

>

> http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrient & dbid=90#function

[Guest guest]

From: " Murray " <doublaswalter@...>

Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 1:01 PM

> Sharon

> Knowing the perfection of Mother Nature, I wonder if good quality (organic

> if it is the right term) sea salt might not have everything in the correct

> proportions for a good balance. Of course if we foolishly upset the

> balance

> (by what ever means) it would take some time to get it back in balance.

> Any thoughts on this idea.

Very interesting, Doug, especially in light of my experience almost a year

ago. I've used nothing but quality sea salt for almost the past 10 yrs.

However, I decided to try the Salt/C therapy because I suspected I might

have " lingering Lyme " (got Lyme disease in '01, but treated almost

immediately with Doxy).

I was following the guidelines of the group devoted to this topic, and

ordered " pure " sodium chloride tablets for ease of use when out of the

house/traveling. I ended up using my sea salt for about half the doses, and

the tabs for the other half.

After about a week to 10 days of this, I got excruciating esophageal spasms.

Very scary as I think the pain is similar to what a heart attack would feel

like, and I had to monitor myself closely to make sure where the pain

originated from.

That was the end of my salt/C experiment! I immediately started taking

supplemental potassium as well as magnesium for a few weeks till I no longer

had these spasms.

I will NEVER use anything but sea salt again!

Sharon/starshar

[Guest guest]

From: " " <kennio@...>

Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 3:23 AM

> This study states that magnesium deficiency is followed by potassium

> deficiency. Potassium deficiency without mag deficiency is rare. Also

> that

> potassium deficiency cannot be cured by supplementing potassium alone; the

> magnesium deficiency must be cured in conjunction. The potassium and

> magnesium

> deficiency causes a sodium and calcium overload.

>

> Raising mag and if necessary potassium seems to level out sodium and

> calcium.

>

> http://www.mgwater.com/schroll.shtml

>

> Thanks, I'll look into what Dr. Peat has to say. It will be interesting

> since

> I thought I have been fiddle with my pump for last couple years to

> maintain a

> better PH and to stay hydrated.

Thanks, . This explains why Mg and K are frequently made together in

supplements; e.g., K-Mag Aspartate.

It also explains why I was taught that " Mg raises K " !

As far as I know, Peat's papers online are very limited. Those few available

I'd guess are " teasers " to encourage paid subscriptions to his snailmail

newsletter.

Sharon/starshar

[Guest guest]

I take cortef and have low adrenal function. I just tried increasing magnesium and it makes me feel awful! very stupid in the head and tired. I am not blaming the mag, just don't understand why I can't tolerate too much of it.

Gracia

>If people with low adrenal function need more magnesium then everything makes more sense. Although you have problem with it um.I wonder why that is. I suppose it is all about listening to your own body, and its symptoms regardless of what anyone says.Everything points to me having low magnesium so will carry on with salt baths unless i get reaction. If i up the iodoral and get bowel problem then i know my minerals are unbalanced.Maybe the salt with its own minerals were depleting/unbalancing my mag levels further that was why i couldn't sleep. who knows lol.>

..

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