Re: good iodine link

[Guest guest]

Hi everyone:

In supplementing iodine, the fact that the Japanese consume

approximately 13.8mg iodine/day is often cited (Brownstein, et al)

in determining the appropriate amount for iodine supplementation (2

drops Lugol or 1 Iodoral pill = 12.5mg, etc.)

There was an interesting paragraph in the link cited at the start of

the thread (http://www.ithyroid.com/iodine.htm) I've quoted the

section below. Made me wonder: have there been any studies that look

at the fact that Japanese ALSO consume a large amount of soy with

their iodine? Is the high soy consumption counterbalancing the high

iodine consumption?

Iodine increases thyroid hormone production. Soybean decreases it.

Maybe the Japanese tolerate 13.8mg iodine/day because of the soy?

What happens if the average American supplements high iodine without

the soy? American doctors often warn against high iodine

supplementation (it causes hyperthyroidism, blah..blah..blah). Is

soy the reason the entire Japanese population isn't hyperthyroid?

Article quote: " ...However, there may be interactions between eating

certain foods and marginal iodine deficiency which could lead to

goiter and hypothyroidism. The following study indicates that this

might happen with high consumption of soybeans (or other beans)

which are known to be high in copper.

This study shows that both defatted soybean consumption and iodine

deficiency decrease thyroid hormone production and cause an increase

in thyroid gland size. However there is a very significant synergism

between soybean consumption and iodine deficiency. Look at the

thyroid gland weights. While iodine deficiency caused a doubling of

thyroid gland weight (from 8.4 to 15.5), iodine deficiency combined

with soy intake caused the weight to nearly increase 10-fold!! (from

8.4 to 81.7)... "

Japans's consumption of soy if oft-cited for its low incidence of

breast cancer due to the phyto-estrogens. But soy is contra-

indicated for thyroid. Iodine has been shown to be beneficial for

fibrous breasts, etc. Makes me wonder if the low incidence of

menopause symptoms and breast cancer in the Japanese is not due

solely to one or the other, but the balance of consuming the TWO?

Any thoughts, or studies that expand on this? Nutrition and the

synergy of its intricate effects on our bodies is fascinating...

[Guest guest]

That's why I've decided to go with Lugol's and just

paint it on the soles of my feet (or wherever) at

night like they used to do in the old days.

I figure this way, what my body needs it will absorb,

and what it doesn't need, it won't absorb. That way I

know I'm not getting too much or too little.

Maybe after I get an idea of how much I need after a

while of doing this, I will switch to Iodoral, but in

the meantime, I think this is the best way for me to

do it, and not scary this way either.

--- persephone persephone <persephone_sea@...>

wrote:

> Taking Iodoral tabs scares the hell out of me, as

> I just dont know whats going on !!

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

>>Taking Iodoral tabs scares the hell out of me, as I just dont know whats going on !!>.

What do you mean? What is going on, may I ask?

Jane

[Guest guest]

Posted by: "sharflin" sharflin@... sharflin

Tue Oct 10, 2006 12:07 pm (PST)

Or you may have nutritional deficiencies that caused you to go hyperT with iodine. That is the case with me. Sharon

Sharon,

Are you talking about copper? Or other minerals too? I increased all my mins, inc selenium, iron (very low ferritin levels), copper, etc. etc. I take tons of magnesium and vitamin C, too.

I am currently experimenting with Cortef to see if I can stay on Armour and Iodine at the same time. So far, if I up my dose of Iodine (Iosol), I become hyper on the armour, go off it and then become hypo. Seems I can't live without the Armour, but Armour without Iodine makes me feel hypo too. Does this make any sense to anyone?

Dahlia

[Guest guest]

you might have a different experience on 50mg Iodoral rather than iosol.

Gracia

Posted by: "sharflin" sharflincomcast (DOT) net sharflin

Tue Oct 10, 2006 12:07 pm (PST)

Or you may have nutritional deficiencies that caused you to go hyperT with iodine. That is the case with me. Sharon

Sharon,

Are you talking about copper? Or other minerals too? I increased all my mins, inc selenium, iron (very low ferritin levels), copper, etc. etc. I take tons of magnesium and vitamin C, too.

I am currently experimenting with Cortef to see if I can stay on Armour and Iodine at the same time. So far, if I up my dose of Iodine (Iosol), I become hyper on the armour, go off it and then become hypo. Seems I can't live without the Armour, but Armour without Iodine makes me feel hypo too. Does this make any sense to anyone?

Dahlia

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[Guest guest]

>Posted by: "Gracia" circe@... graciabee

>Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:05 pm (PST)

>you might have a different experience on 50mg Iodoral rather than iosol.>Gracia

>I am currently experimenting with Cortef to see if I can stay on Armour and Iodine at the same time. So far, >if I up my dose of Iodine (Iosol), I become hyper on the armour, go off it and then become hypo. Seems I >can't live without the Armour, but Armour without Iodine makes me feel hypo too. Does this make any >sense to anyone?>Dahlia*****************************************************************************

Hi Gracia,

I have a terrible reaction to Ioderal and also to Lugol's. For whatever reason, I don't seem able to tolerate the iodide form of iodine, but Iosol has a good effect w/o the bad.

Any ideas?

Dahlia

[Guest guest]

I meant I dont know whether I'm iodine low or high & taking an iodine supplement without finding out seems nuts (they dont do the test over here in the UK) Jane Rowland <classicalwriter@...> wrote: >>Taking Iodoral tabs scares the hell out of me, as I just dont know whats going on !!>. What do you mean? What is going on, may I ask? Jane Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

[Guest guest]

Dahlia,

I'm not an expert but here is a cut and paste from the iThyroid.com

site outlining his thoughts on the likely causes of hyperthyroidism:

* Inadequate copper in the diet.

* Excessive cadmium intake such as from smoking or excessive

consumption of green leafy vegetables.

* Excessive zinc intake for the amount of copper intake. (Too high

a zinc/copper ratio)

* Excessive aluminum intake.

* Low vitamins which metabolize copper.

* Low minerals which work with copper such as iron and sulfur.

* Celiac disease or other digestive deficiencies.

* Progesterone use, including progesterone-based birth control

pills.

* High estrogen levels or estrogen replacement therapy combined with

smoking, consumption of excessive green leafy vegetables, or

inadequate copper intake.

* Estrogen mimics from environmental sources including consumption

of canned food.

* Lithium, sodium, and potassium imbalances.

Inadequate intake of protein or fat.

IF they all were true, which I have no idea, I'm not sure which

interact with iodine. Elsewhere on the site he says that copper does

(saying not to take iodine until a copper deficiency is corrected).

But maybe some of these other causes of hyperT might be a problem

with iodine as well (in other words, iodine might aggravate hyperT,

which is actually caused by other problems).

Sharon

> Posted by: " sharflin " sharflin@... sharflin

> Tue Oct 10, 2006 12:07 pm (PST)

> Or you may have nutritional deficiencies that caused you to go

hyperT

> with iodine. That is the case with me.

> Sharon

>

> Sharon,

> Are you talking about copper? Or other minerals too? I increased

all my

> mins, inc selenium, iron (very low ferritin levels), copper, etc.

etc. I

> take tons of magnesium and vitamin C, too.

>

> I am currently experimenting with Cortef to see if I can stay on

Armour

> and Iodine at the same time. So far, if I up my dose of Iodine

(Iosol),

> I become hyper on the armour, go off it and then become hypo.

Seems I

> can't live without the Armour, but Armour without Iodine makes me

feel

> hypo too. Does this make any sense to anyone?

> Dahlia

>

[Guest guest]

The mention of Progesterone supplements including

birth control pills should say this refers to

*synthetic* progesterone.

--- sharflin <sharflin@...> wrote:

> Dahlia,

>

> I'm not an expert but here is a cut and paste from

> the iThyroid.com

> site outlining his thoughts on the likely causes of

> hyperthyroidism:

>

> * Inadequate copper in the diet.

> * Excessive cadmium intake such as from smoking or

> excessive

> consumption of green leafy vegetables.

> * Excessive zinc intake for the amount of copper

> intake. (Too high

> a zinc/copper ratio)

> * Excessive aluminum intake.

> * Low vitamins which metabolize copper.

> * Low minerals which work with copper such as iron

> and sulfur.

> * Celiac disease or other digestive deficiencies.

> * Progesterone use, including progesterone-based

> birth control

> pills.

> * High estrogen levels or estrogen replacement

> therapy combined with

> smoking, consumption of excessive green leafy

> vegetables, or

> inadequate copper intake.

> * Estrogen mimics from environmental sources

> including consumption

> of canned food.

> * Lithium, sodium, and potassium imbalances.

> Inadequate intake of protein or fat.

>

> IF they all were true, which I have no idea, I'm not

> sure which

> interact with iodine. Elsewhere on the site he says

> that copper does

> (saying not to take iodine until a copper deficiency

> is corrected).

> But maybe some of these other causes of hyperT might

> be a problem

> with iodine as well (in other words, iodine might

> aggravate hyperT,

> which is actually caused by other problems).

>

> Sharon

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Posted by: "sharflin" sharflin@... sharflin

Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:42 pm (PST)

Dahlia,I'm not an expert but here is a cut and paste from the iThyroid.com site outlining his thoughts on the likely causes of hyperthyroidism:* Inadequate copper in the diet. * Excessive cadmium intake such as from smoking or excessive consumption of green leafy vegetables. * Excessive zinc intake for the amount of copper intake. (Too high a zinc/copper ratio) * Excessive aluminum intake. * Low vitamins which metabolize copper. * Low minerals which work with copper such as iron and sulfur. * Celiac disease or other digestive deficiencies. * Progesterone use, including progesterone-based birth control pills. * High estrogen levels or estrogen replacement therapy combined with smoking, consumption of excessive green leafy vegetables, or inadequate copper intake. * Estrogen mimics from environmental sources including consumption of canned food. * Lithium, sodium, and potassium imbalances. Inadequate intake of protein or fat. IF they all were true, which I have no idea, I'm not sure which interact with iodine. Elsewhere on the site he says that copper does (saying not to take iodine until a copper deficiency is corrected). But maybe some of these other causes of hyperT might be a problem with iodine as well (in other words, iodine might aggravate hyperT, which is actually caused by other problems). Sharon

Thanks Sharon for your thoughtful reply... I know you are struggling with hyperT brought on by iodine--how are you doing?

I currently am trying Lugol's at 7.5 mg + Iosol (20mg) + Armour (30mg) + Cortef (15-20mg:not sure how to dose or regulate). I am not hyper but still somewhat hypo, in fact.

Regards,

Dahlia

[Guest guest]

Hi Dahlia,

> Thanks Sharon for your thoughtful reply... I know you are

struggling with

> hyperT brought on by iodine--how are you doing?

> I currently am trying Lugol's at 7.5 mg + Iosol (20mg) + Armour

(30mg) +

> Cortef (15-20mg:not sure how to dose or regulate). I am not hyper

but

> still somewhat hypo, in fact.

I'm doing pretty good actually, thanks for asking. I did a few

supplements to stop the hyperness and stopped the iodine - I'd say I

was normal or even hypo in a week or so. So it was pretty easy to

correct the hyperness that way. I felt hypo for a few weeks but now

I feel pretty good. I tried adding copper since I tested low for

that but after a week I realized it was giving me heart palps so

I've stopped that. I'm waiting for some more comprehensive labs and

hopefully they will be normal, and I'll just try to correct what

looks like some nutritional deficiencies. In addition to copper, my

calcium was really low. So, I have started some calcium, and I'm

also adding some basic vits & minerals - I've taken so many

supplements but have neglected some of the basic vits and minerals

so I'm hoping once I focus on that for a while I can add the copper

back in, etc. Anyway, I'm taking it slow. Every once and a while I

try a kelp pill and I get hyper. I started a very small amount of

painting and that is fine so I'll continue that. My period cycle has

gone down from 28 days to 25 so I know I need more iodine but I'm

just trying to be patient and wait until I can handle it better.

I'm also on Cortef (15mg). The Natural Thyroid Hormones Adrenal

group has a lot of good info on dosing Cortef. I started out on 20mg

4x/day using Safe Uses of Cortisol approach but had to adjust due to

sleep problems.

NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/?

yguid=200302514

That's great you can take quite a bit of iodine without hyperness.

Thanks for your interesting posts!

Sharon

[Guest guest]

Thanks for that! Your thyroid/hormonal situation sounds similar to mine (cept I have the dreaded 'nodule' - and from the very informative links I've just read getting rid of them is almost impossible). I recently had my progesterone to estrogen measured (360 estrogen to 35 progesterone - sounds bad, but one is measured in picamoles, the other in nanomoles.). I did have longer periods when I was taking herbs (cant remember which one - but could have been Vitex??) Were you hypo or hyper?? I'm tempted to try the Iodoral, but everything points to my not being iodine deficient. Its a tricky call.... sharflin <sharflin@...> wrote: Hi , > Would you mind posting where you found out about shorter periods being a good indicator for iodine

supplement??? I have that too (25 days also). I had no idea it meant you need iodine?? I had to think about that for a minute! Trying to reconstruct my thinking on this over a number of months: I did have estrogen dominance as determined by saliva testing. I learned that at least for some women estrogen dominance produces shorter periods. This is a quote from researcher Skibola, "Intake of bladderwrack was associated with significant increases in menstrual cycle lengths, ranging from an increase of 5.5 to 14 days. In addition, hormone measurements ascertained for one woman revealed significant anti-estrogenic and progestagenic effects following kelp administration." http://www.iodine4health.com/body/hormones.htmSo I had short periods (23 days) when I started iodine. First some misc. estrogen dominance problems cleared up (TMJ pain, etc.), then eventually my periods lengthened to 28 days (took 6

months). Which I attributed to a reduction of estrogen dominance from taking iodine. Now that I am off of iodine about 2 months my periods have shorted to 25 days. Hope that makes sense and helps. The iodine4health.com info on hormones has a lot more info on this. Take care,SharonIodine

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

> Thanks for that! Your thyroid/hormonal situation sounds similar

to mine (cept I have the dreaded 'nodule' - and from the very

informative links I've just read getting rid of them is almost

impossible). I recently had my progesterone to estrogen measured

(360 estrogen to 35 progesterone - sounds bad, but one is measured

in picamoles, the other in nanomoles.). I did have longer periods

when I was taking herbs (cant remember which one - but could have

been Vitex??)

>

> Were you hypo or hyper?? I'm tempted to try the Iodoral, but

everything points to my not being iodine deficient. Its a tricky

call....

I was slightly hypo (37.5mcg Synthroid) before the iodine, then when

I started I think I was pretty quickly hyper but didn't realize it

until it became a real problem. I have the other problem that is

associated with trouble taking iodine - Hashimotos. I just didn't

realize it / wasn't diagnosed at the time. But not all Hashimotos

folks have trouble with iodine.

Yes, I don't know much about nodules but have heard they may make

iodine supplementing a problem. Is yours autonomous? If so, that is

the kind that seems to be the most problematic, as they don't

regulate well and can continue to make thyroid hormones with all

available iodine. If it is not autonomous, then perhaps you can use

iodine? I believe a number of people on the list have mentioned

having nodules and using iodine. I don't like to give too much

advice but if you decide to try it why not just do a little, like a

kelp tablet, to see how you react? Other people think jumping in

with 50mg Iodoral is the way to go but I lean toward the other side -

try a little and see how you feel. Or you could just " paint " some

tincture of iodine from the drugstore - in the beginning if I

painted too much I would feel nervous in minutes. That should have

caused red flags for me but I was in denial! But that said, if you

tried painting and found it to be a problem (nervousness,

palpitations) that would be good information and pretty cheap too as

you don't have to order the more expensive Iodoral to test your

tolerance to iodine.

Good luck!

Sharon