Re: Re: healing vs symptom relief

[Guest guest]

Mercola says...and i've seen this from thyroid forums, and it is my own case too: I've seen several patients following a low-fat, low-protein, high-carbohydrate diet with severe health problems: obesity, candidiasis, hypothyroidism, leaky gut syndrome, anaemia and generalised fatigue. If I could go back in time, I certainly would have eaten a better diet, with meat...i was a pasta gal. I eat meat several times a week now...and could not be without it. Cindi <truepatriot@...> wrote: LOL, I knew I could count on you, Gracia, to comment on this. ;)The high TSH is surely a problem. I don't think the othersare necessarily guilty of causation.It was actually when I *increased* my dairy consumption withkefir (and

more yogurt than before) that I first startedgetting symptoms of fatigue. I didn't want to believe therewas a connection, however, and it took me a year before Idecided to follow through with my suspicions and go fullyvegan. Of course, seeing how I had added some supplements,namely L-tyrosine and ashwagandha, at the same time, I cannotsay for sure it was the only variable.What would you have me do? Add meat back to my diet?!I think not; I've been vegetarian for over ten years.

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well I am glad you aren't mad at me! I completely respect vegetarianism. I am an animal lover, currently living with eleven kit-tens, 2 cats and 2 dogs. Already this morning I have rescued a baby kitten from a tree and removed a garden snake that another dragged in the house.

I seem to need/crave protein. If you can thrive as a vegetarian then I think that is great, vegan seems a bit extreme, I have a hard time believing it's safe for the long term.

But if you are only taking 1mg iodine, why not try 50mg/day to see if it will help get TSH down? I mean treat your symptoms LOL.

Gracia

LOL, I knew I could count on you, Gracia, to comment on this. ;)The high TSH is surely a problem. I don't think the othersare necessarily guilty of causation.It was actually when I *increased* my dairy consumption withkefir (and more yogurt than before) that I first startedgetting symptoms of fatigue. I didn't want to believe therewas a connection, however, and it took me a year before Idecided to follow through with my suspicions and go fullyvegan. Of course, seeing how I had added some supplements,namely L-tyrosine and ashwagandha, at the same time, I cannotsay for sure it was the only variable.What would you have me do? Add meat back to my diet?!I think not; I've been vegetarian for over ten years.-www.zenpawn.com/vegblog>> > vegan/high TSH/calorie restriction sounds like a recipe for problems to me. > gracia

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[Guest guest]

I wouldn't let anyone dissuade you from what your body is telling you is right.

If you pay

attention to the tests, signs, incremental increases in sleep quality, fatigue,

etc. you can

determine what your body needs. ALSO Non-serum blood testing is a great way to

get some idea of

your status with vitamins, minerals and fats.

Research is the key, we are very lucky to have google and the advanced search

features. I would

look into therapeutic dosing of nutrients your body may be lacking as indicated

by testing such as

with essential fatty acids. EFA are now found to possibly alter gene expression

(maybe how

`Lorenzo's oil' worked). I also wouldn't be without magnesium glycinate

capsules and `Natural

Calm' with thyroid disease.

Remember a lot of the doctors that are being quoted here, as if they are the

final word, would NOT

endorse the megadosing of iodine. Certainly not for all thyroid conditions....

So are they right

or are they wrong? What other issues might they be mistaken with?

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/81/6/1453-a

http://news./s/nm/20060913/hl_nm/increased_deaths_dc_1

--- <truepatriot@...> wrote:

> LOL, I knew I could count on you, Gracia, to comment on this.

> The high TSH is surely a problem. I don't think the others

> are necessarily guilty of causation.

>

> It was actually when I *increased* my dairy consumption with

> kefir (and more yogurt than before) that I first started

> getting symptoms of fatigue. I didn't want to believe there

> was a connection, however, and it took me a year before I

> decided to follow through with my suspicions and go fully

> vegan. Of course, seeing how I had added some supplements,

> namely L-tyrosine and ashwagandha, at the same time, I cannot

> say for sure it was the only variable.

>

> What would you have me do? Add meat back to my diet?!

> I think not; I've been vegetarian for over ten years.

>

>

> -

> www.zenpawn.com/vegblog

>

>

>

> >

> >

> > vegan/high TSH/calorie restriction sounds like a recipe for

> problems to me.

> > gracia

>

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

>From: " Gracia " <circe@...>

> I seem to need/crave protein. If you can thrive as a vegetarian then I

>think that is great, vegan seems a bit extreme, I have a hard time

>believing it's safe for the long term.

> But if you are only taking 1mg iodine, why not try 50mg/day to see if it

>will help get TSH down? I mean treat your symptoms LOL.

At the very least, vegans should periodically have their B12 level checked,

because that's a common deficiency for which there are no good plant

sources.

Also, if they turn yellow, it's because hypos have problems converting beta

carotene to Vitamin A, and there are no plant sources of Vitamin A. Meat

has Vitamin A, plants have beta carotene.

Skipper

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[Guest guest]

>From: " " <truepatriot@...>

>Yes, I had to ask for those numbers to be collected as well.

>My T3 was at the low-end for all tests, but unlike my TSH,

>it was never outside the range. Calorie restriction has been

>shown to often lower T3 levels, but it's not supposed to raise

>the TSH figure. As it stands, we do not have another drawing

>scheduled yet, but I have a regular physical in December, so

>perhaps we'll discuss another round of lab work for next July.

Remember lab ranges are where 95.5% of the population falls. There's no

well / sick connotation to it that the doctor tries to make up. Call a lab

and ask if being " in range " means your healthy, and they'll be likely to

tell you it's not a well / sick cutoff.

By definition, only 2.25% of the population have low T3. It's very hard to

be in that 2 out of a hundred range. If it's skewed in the way TSH is, most

people are near the top of the range. (TSH is skewed so that when they

exclude hypos, most people have TSH around 1.5 and very few at the higher

end.)

Skipper

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[Guest guest]

Hello ,

Just a thought: did you consider that >calcium< in

the kefir or dairy might be related?

Abbe

--- <truepatriot@...> wrote:

>

> It was actually when I *increased* my dairy

> consumption with

> kefir (and more yogurt than before) that I first

> started

> getting symptoms of fatigue. I didn't want to

> believe there

> was a connection, however, and it took me a year

> before I

> decided to follow through with my suspicions and go

> fully

> vegan. Of course, seeing how I had added some

> supplements,

> namely L-tyrosine and ashwagandha, at the same time,

> I cannot

> say for sure it was the only variable.

>

> What would you have me do? Add meat back to my

> diet?!

> I think not; I've been vegetarian for over ten

> years.

>

>

> -

> www.zenpawn.com/vegblog

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

>From: " " <truepatriot@...>

>Well, that wasn't as painful as I thought it would be. I have,

>of course, been hinting at my diet, but have not necessarily laid it

>on the line until now. I have been in many a group where the

>To answer some of those concerns, I want to clarify that, 1) I get

>plenty of protein (at least 100g/day, as I lift weights), 2) I take

>sublingual B12 supplements,

Does this mean you've actually had your B12 levels tested? Many think the

supplements are not adequate, and the shots better for absorption. So, it

would be meaningful to have it tested if it hasn't been. Some sources say

it's inadequate if it's not over 540.

and 3) as for pre-formed vitamin A, it is

>present in my milk alternative and cereals.

I doubt the real vitamin A is harmful, but the sythetic added to a product

may be.

If the milk alternative is soy, you've probably heard the disparaging

remarks about that.

I went vegan after my

>increased milk consumption seemed correlated to my symptoms. The

>final straw was when I learned of the acceptable levels of pus in

>dairy. Ewww...

Yes, but a lot of people claim pasteurized milk isn't particularly good for

you anyway.

Pus sounds nasty, but so does an allowable insect part content for flour.

So is pesticide residue on vegetables.

>

>Anyway, it is good to see that we have some, albeit perhaps a small

>contingent, of members (, etc.) seeking non-hormonal solutions to

>their thyroid issues.

Non-hormonal answers aren't the only ones. Some simply need the hormones.

After all, if you are hypothyroid because you are low in

selenium, what chance do you have of finding that out? Very little. Don't

think science knows all the answers yet, hypothyroidism could be cause by

lack of or an excess of some unknown minerals.

So, there are a few things that might keep a hypothyroid person from needing

thyroid hormone, but I'm not sure the chances are real good.

I think there used to be more thyroid hormone in the natural diet of meat

eaters, as they used to eat more of the animal, probably including the

thyroid gland.

I've read there are some plants that have thyroid hormone in them, but I

can't name them. Science has only recently learned this.

We really have such a tiny bit of knowledge.

Good luck to those who think they can avoid hormones. Maybe they will.

Some will avoid the hormones, think they feel well, yet have the

consequences of hypothyroidism and not even know it.

OTOH, maybe they will succeed. But, that should be evidenced by their

antibodies going away, or by their TSH being around the 1.5 median TSH of

healthy people, and their T4 and T3 at acceptable levels. Then I would

believe them to have avoided the need for thyroid hormone.

Since it's a subtle disease, it can do damage without someone really

thinking they are hypothyroid. As my thyroid doc said " It seems the first

thing to go is the self critical diagnostic that tells you how bad off you

really are. "

Let's please continue to revisit this theme as

>we discover new nutritional means of addressing hypothyroidism. As

>for iodine, Gracia, you asked why only 1 mg/day instead of 50? In

>short, fear.

Fear is a good reason. What do you think more will do to you?

Note the Japanese are said to regularly eat 12.5 mg per day.

Skipper

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[Guest guest]

hmmm the pus thing sounds like Null

I have always loved raw milk--I grew up on a dairy farm on Lake Erie. When I was very sick I would crave/drink a gallon of milk a day. Now that's a lot of pus but there must be something else in there that I need.

Gracia

To answer some of those concerns, I want to clarify that, 1) I get plenty of protein (at least 100g/day, as I lift weights), 2) I take sublingual B12 supplements, and 3) as for pre-formed vitamin A, it is present in my milk alternative and cereals. Too much of this last is bad for your bones, anyway, so it is best, if you can convert beta-carotene, to get the majority that way. I went vegan after my increased milk consumption seemed correlated to my symptoms. The final straw was when I learned of the acceptable levels of pus in dairy. Ewww...Anyway, it is good to see that we have some, albeit perhaps a small contingent, of members (, etc.) seeking non-hormonal solutions to their thyroid issues. Let's please continue to revisit this theme as we discover new nutritional means of addressing hypothyroidism. As for iodine, Gracia, you asked why only 1 mg/day instead of 50? In short, fear.Thanks all for listening,-www.zenpawn.com/vegblog

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[Guest guest]

I gotta comment on that. this is SO true. I did not realize how bad off I was...emotionally, mentally, and physically...until I got unhypo and got those Free levels up high. I had things get fixed that I didn't even realize were wrong. like not being able to smell. like my whole body having too much fluid. Skipper Beers <lsb149@...> wrote: >From: "" >Well, that wasn't as painful as I thought it would be. I have,>of course, been hinting at my diet, but have not necessarily laid it>on the line until now. I have been in many a group where the>To answer some of those concerns, I want to clarify that, 1) I get>plenty of protein (at least 100g/day, as I lift weights), 2) I

take>sublingual B12 supplements,Does this mean you've actually had your B12 levels tested? Many think the supplements are not adequate, and the shots better for absorption. So, it would be meaningful to have it tested if it hasn't been. Some sources say it's inadequate if it's not over 540.and 3) as for pre-formed vitamin A, it is>present in my milk alternative and cereals.I doubt the real vitamin A is harmful, but the sythetic added to a product may be.If the milk alternative is soy, you've probably heard the disparaging remarks about that.I went vegan after my>increased milk consumption seemed correlated to my symptoms. The>final straw was when I learned of the acceptable levels of pus in>dairy. Ewww...Yes, but a lot of people claim pasteurized milk isn't particularly good for you anyway.Pus sounds nasty, but so does an allowable insect part content

for flour. So is pesticide residue on vegetables.>>Anyway, it is good to see that we have some, albeit perhaps a small>contingent, of members (, etc.) seeking non-hormonal solutions to>their thyroid issues.Non-hormonal answers aren't the only ones. Some simply need the hormones. After all, if you are hypothyroid because you are low in selenium, what chance do you have of finding that out? Very little. Don't think science knows all the answers yet, hypothyroidism could be cause by lack of or an excess of some unknown minerals.So, there are a few things that might keep a hypothyroid person from needing thyroid hormone, but I'm not sure the chances are real good.I think there used to be more thyroid hormone in the natural diet of meat eaters, as they used to eat more of the animal, probably including the thyroid gland.I've read there are some plants that have thyroid hormone in

them, but I can't name them. Science has only recently learned this.We really have such a tiny bit of knowledge.Good luck to those who think they can avoid hormones. Maybe they will. Some will avoid the hormones, think they feel well, yet have the consequences of hypothyroidism and not even know it.OTOH, maybe they will succeed. But, that should be evidenced by their antibodies going away, or by their TSH being around the 1.5 median TSH of healthy people, and their T4 and T3 at acceptable levels. Then I would believe them to have avoided the need for thyroid hormone.Since it's a subtle disease, it can do damage without someone really thinking they are hypothyroid. As my thyroid doc said "It seems the first thing to go is the self critical diagnostic that tells you how bad off you really are."Let's please continue to revisit this theme as>we discover new nutritional means of addressing

hypothyroidism. As>for iodine, Gracia, you asked why only 1 mg/day instead of 50? In>short, fear.Fear is a good reason. What do you think more will do to you?Note the Japanese are said to regularly eat 12.5 mg per day.Skipper_________________________________________________________________Check the weather nationwide with MSN Search: Try it now! http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=weather & FORM=WLMTAGIodine

[Guest guest]

,I like getting info from opposite sides of the camps.  In reading about nutrition, this is one of the things that I haven't been able to reconcile, the vegetarians vs. meat.  The data is pretty compelling regarding heart disease and other health problems improving when going on a vegetarian diet, but the info is just as compelling regarding the protein and fats that your body needs, so I've been in a quandary over this.  So my solution is to eat meat but also tons of vegetables.  I'm like Gracia, I crave the protein.  In fact I don't feel well without it, but I also crave things like salads and my house is rarely without a staple amount of carrots and apples, in fact if I run out I will have to go to the store that day to get more.  Linn    On Sep 17, 2006, at 3:58 PM, wrote:Well, that wasn't as painful as I thought it would be. I have, of course, been hinting at my diet, but have not necessarily laid it on the line until now. I have been in many a group where the Mercola/etc. crew pounces at the chance to disparage the veg[etari]an lifestyle. I am glad to see we are a happy group with folks capable of showing restraint and respect for others' paths. I also am pleased to feel the real wishes for well-being. Thank you.. 

[Guest guest]

>From: Cindi <cindi22595@...>

>I gotta comment on that. this is SO true.

> I did not realize how bad off I was...emotionally, mentally, and

>physically...until I got unhypo and got those Free levels up high.

> I had things get fixed that I didn't even realize were wrong.

> like not being able to smell.

> like my whole body having too much fluid.

My plantar fasciitis(painful foor problem also called bursitis or

policeman's heel) of 4 years went away when I went on Armour.

My wife's asthma went away.

My son started eating and growing normally again.

With Cortef the things that went away were -

frequent urination (over 10 years)

" costochondritis " (over 10 years)

" rheumatoid " in the hips.

Skipper

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[Guest guest]

>From: Linn <linnmiller@...>

>,

>

>I like getting info from opposite sides of the camps. In reading about

>nutrition, this is one of the things that I haven't been able to

>reconcile, the vegetarians vs. meat. The data is pretty compelling

>regarding heart disease and other health problems improving when going on

>a vegetarian diet, but the info is just as compelling regarding the

>protein and fats that your body needs, so I've been in a quandary over

>this. So my solution is to eat meat but also tons of vegetables. I'm

>like Gracia, I crave the protein. In fact I don't feel well without it,

>but I also crave things like salads and my house is rarely without a

>staple amount of carrots and apples, in fact if I run out I will have to

>go to the store that day to get more.

Vegetarians Shania Twain and Bob Barker both look to be in real good health.

Of course, they can also afford to eat organic vegetables of any kind they

want from anywhere in the world, and can also afford dieticians and lab

tests to make sure they have everything they need.

Skipper

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[Guest guest]

--- Skipper Beers <lsb149@...> wrote:

> Non-hormonal answers aren't the only ones. Some simply need the hormones.

> After all, if you are hypothyroid because you are low in

> selenium, what chance do you have of finding that out? Very little. Don't

> think science knows all the answers yet, hypothyroidism could be cause by

> lack of or an excess of some unknown minerals.

>

http://www.doctorsdata.com/repository.asp?id=1273

This test will show your intercellular store of selenium. Don't be so

pessimistic about reversing

even your own thyroid disease without having ever tested yourself for mineral

deficiencies (non-serum).

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Linn wrote:

>

> I like getting info from opposite sides of the camps. In reading

> about nutrition, this is one of the things that I haven't been able to

> reconcile, the vegetarians vs. meat. The data is pretty compelling

> regarding heart disease and other health problems improving when going

> on a vegetarian diet, but the info is just as compelling regarding the

> protein and fats that your body needs,

Having studied the issue for some time (and having dealt with farm

animals myself)

I think part of the answer is where the meat comes from. I get mine

straight from the farmer, and I know how it is raised. That's not always

an option, I realize, though it's easier than you think (a lot of recent

immigrants

get their meat that way, because it's how they did it in the old country

.... it's

not a matter of having money either, because it generally works out

cheaper).

Anyway, a grass fed beef cow is just not the same thing as what you

buy in the store. Grain fed beef are very, very unhealthy animals, so it

isn't surprising to me that they would make people sick when you eat them.

" Organic " beef is no guarantee, since that just means they are fed organic

food, not that they necessarily grew up in a field (although many organic

suppliers are good folks). You have to check the source, is all.

-- Heidi

>

>

[Guest guest]

well not really. Sometimes I think maybe I can lower cortef but then I find I can't go too long without it. All the hormones, all of them have given me my life back. Now I just have to work all the time to pay for them.

Gracia

I hope I'm not past rational thought yet(?). Even if I were to take hormones, I would be faced with a minor quandary: to take the animal-based stuff or Synthroid. So, I continue to experiment, and I reckon I'm not alone in this goal. Heck, even Gracia is saying she'd like to start trying to lower her hormone intake! Without further improvement, perhaps I will next test my hypothesis regarding gluten being an issue.

..

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[Guest guest]

I did not mean too much calcium. I do not *think*

calcium is related to cause of hypothryoidism.

Months back I noticed I reacted to foods with calcium

in them. I had not previously. I do not now.

There are two issues, one is a no-brainer: not enough

magnesium. I did increase my magnesium intake, for

other reasons, that might have corrected it(?)

The other issue, is related to something I read long

ago about calcium and parathyroid. I am sorry I

cannot give a source for the information, or even

elaborate. I just took note there was some connection

between calcium and parathyroid dysfunction. It

seemed this did not apply to me so I did not hold on

to url. Doing a search would probably lead to it if

you think it might be helpful to you.

Abbe

--- <truepatriot@...> wrote:

> As in too much calcium? Yes, definitely. I didn't

> know it could

> cause hypothyroid issues (can it?), but I was

> concerned about

> arterial calcification. On the other hand, with

> enough vitamin K,

> which surely a kale-eating herbivore like myself

> consumes in

> quantity, that probably wasn't really a valid

> concern. Now, I don't

> have to worry about it.

>

>

> Thanks,

> -

> www.zenpawn.com/vegblog

>

>

>

> >

> > >

> > > It was actually when I *increased* my dairy

> > > consumption with

> > > kefir (and more yogurt than before) that I first

> > > started

> > > getting symptoms of fatigue. I didn't want to

> > > believe there

> > > was a connection, however, and it took me a year

> > > before I

> > > decided to follow through with my suspicions and

> go

> > > fully

> > > vegan. Of course, seeing how I had added some

> > > supplements,

> > > namely L-tyrosine and ashwagandha, at the same

> time,

> > > I cannot

> > > say for sure it was the only variable.

>

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

>From: " Jane Rowland " <classicalwriter@...>

>That's b/c muscle meat is not really good for you, but organ meats and/or

>shellfish are imperative for good health. I have never met a healthy vegan.

I haven't either, but haven't met many. However, Shania Twain is

vegetarian. She looks perfectly healthy and quite energetic, and in good

shape. Her husband also looks lean, energetic, and healthy (in addition to

being homely. I'm assuming he's also vegetarian.)

Bob Barker, also a vegetarian with good energy and isn't he 80 something

now, and still good enough to do his show?

If these two are not uncommon for vegetarians, then I think it can't be so

bad.

>If you believe in the precept that like cures like, eating animals makes

sense (besides the fact that we are not cattle).

That's kind of the concept those people who take adrenal or thyroid

glandulars must have. It's the only reason they'd be healthy.

>Eating eyes is good for your eyes, heart for your heart, etc. This is b/c

>God is brilliant and simple: we need A for our eyes, A concentrates there,

>thus eating the eyes of another animal will provide a huge amount of A. We

>need Co Q10 for our hearts; guess where you find an obscene amount of it?

Yes. I've wondered if this is part of the reason thyroid trouble is so

common. I'm sure in the olden days we knew how to use the thyroid gland.

The Chinese allegedly made a thyroid soup for hypos before Christ.

Actually, the word hypochondriac, has something to do with an area of the

chest that commonly hurts on hypos. Then it was translated to mean somebody

who the doctors thought had a lot of imaginary illnesses, maybe because

hypos have a lot wrong with them.

>

>Muscle meat, cooked, is terribly hard to digest. Raw muscle meat is both

>unbelievably tender but digests in 20 minutes or less. It was a high hurdle

>for me at first, but once you try it, a tiny bit, then abit more, then a

>bit more, you WILL begin to crave it in a way that will surprise you. Ice

>cold NewYork Strip, sliced, with crunchy sea salt is simply heaven, I

>promise you.

I guess it might be OK to try if you can afford organic, grass fed beef of

high quality. I doubt that most supermarket meat would be healthy eaten in

that fashion. Dr. Mercola recently posted an article about how sick he got

after he ate some New Zeeland range fed mutton.

Also a good idea to take Lugol's with that, as it helps kill bad bacteria.

Actually, away from the sea, it's possible people used to get their iodine

from the thyroid gland of animals.

I recently saw a special on bears in Alaska, and they showed how the bears

would catch Salmon, go for the brains, the fat back, and the eggs and then

leave the rest for scavengers.

They used to give people raw liver for a condition, but then eventually

isolated the helfpul substance in it was Vitamin B12. I have a suspicion

not that many people with B12 deficiency eat liver on a regular basis.

Skipper

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[Guest guest]

How do you know you have never met a healthy vegan? By their appearance? Keep

in mind some may

have gone vegan in response to toxicity that they associate with eating meat. I

am not vegan but

I haven't eaten red meat since the PBB contamination of beef in Michigan 20 some

years ago; where

I grew up. Michigan now leads the nation in auto-immune diseases.

--- Jane Rowland <classicalwriter@...> wrote:

> >>I like getting info from opposite sides of the camps. In reading about

nutrition, this is one

> of the things that I haven't been able to reconcile, the vegetarians vs. meat.

>>

>

> That's b/c muscle meat is not really good for you, but organ meats and/or

shellfish are

> imperative for good health. I have never met a healthy vegan. If you believe

in the precept that

> like cures like, eating animals makes sense (besides the fact that we are not

cattle). Eating

> eyes is good for your eyes, heart for your heart, etc. This is b/c God is

brilliant and simple:

> we need A for our eyes, A concentrates there, thus eating the eyes of another

animal will

> provide a huge amount of A. We need Co Q10 for our hearts; guess where you

find an obscene

> amount of it?

>

> Muscle meat, cooked, is terribly hard to digest. Raw muscle meat is both

unbelievably tender but

> digests in 20 minutes or less. It was a high hurdle for me at first, but once

you try it, a tiny

> bit, then abit more, then a bit more, you WILL begin to crave it in a way

that will surprise

> you. Ice cold NewYork Strip, sliced, with crunchy sea salt is simply heaven, I

promise you. But

> I strongly recommend that you have a healthy colon and do not do colonics

(without re-populating

> your colon) right before eating this way. You need healthy gut bacteria; not

super-hero healthy,

> just healthy.

>

> I do not wish to argue the relative merits of vegetariansim. It is simply not

a healthy way to

> live; but if your religious about it, then by all means.

>

> Jane

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Community-wide outbreaks of “hamburger thyrotoxicosis” resulting from

inadvertent consumption of

beef contaminated with bovine thyroid gland have been previously reported.

" Further questioning into the patient’s dietary history revealed that she lived

on a farm with her

husband and that every couple of years they slaughtered a cow from their herd,

which was their

main source of meat. Inquiries to the couple’s local butcher revealed that he

was unaware of the

prohibition against gullet trimming (a procedure whereby muscles from the bovine

larynx are

harvested) and had inadvertently been contaminating edible meat with thyroid

tissue. "

http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/reprint/169/5/415.pdf#search=%22Recurrent%20hamburger%20t\

hyrotoxicosis%22

--- Skipper Beers <lsb149@...> wrote:

> >From: " Jane Rowland " <classicalwriter@...>

>

>

> >That's b/c muscle meat is not really good for you, but organ meats and/or

> >shellfish are imperative for good health. I have never met a healthy vegan.

>

> I haven't either, but haven't met many. However, Shania Twain is

> vegetarian. She looks perfectly healthy and quite energetic, and in good

> shape. Her husband also looks lean, energetic, and healthy (in addition to

> being homely. I'm assuming he's also vegetarian.)

>

> Bob Barker, also a vegetarian with good energy and isn't he 80 something

> now, and still good enough to do his show?

>

> If these two are not uncommon for vegetarians, then I think it can't be so

> bad.

>

>

> >If you believe in the precept that like cures like, eating animals makes

> sense (besides the fact that we are not cattle).

>

> That's kind of the concept those people who take adrenal or thyroid

> glandulars must have. It's the only reason they'd be healthy.

>

> >Eating eyes is good for your eyes, heart for your heart, etc. This is b/c

> >God is brilliant and simple: we need A for our eyes, A concentrates there,

> >thus eating the eyes of another animal will provide a huge amount of A. We

> >need Co Q10 for our hearts; guess where you find an obscene amount of it?

>

> Yes. I've wondered if this is part of the reason thyroid trouble is so

> common. I'm sure in the olden days we knew how to use the thyroid gland.

> The Chinese allegedly made a thyroid soup for hypos before Christ.

>

> Actually, the word hypochondriac, has something to do with an area of the

> chest that commonly hurts on hypos. Then it was translated to mean somebody

> who the doctors thought had a lot of imaginary illnesses, maybe because

> hypos have a lot wrong with them.

>

> >

> >Muscle meat, cooked, is terribly hard to digest. Raw muscle meat is both

> >unbelievably tender but digests in 20 minutes or less. It was a high hurdle

> >for me at first, but once you try it, a tiny bit, then abit more, then a

> >bit more, you WILL begin to crave it in a way that will surprise you. Ice

> >cold NewYork Strip, sliced, with crunchy sea salt is simply heaven, I

> >promise you.

>

> I guess it might be OK to try if you can afford organic, grass fed beef of

> high quality. I doubt that most supermarket meat would be healthy eaten in

> that fashion. Dr. Mercola recently posted an article about how sick he got

> after he ate some New Zeeland range fed mutton.

>

> Also a good idea to take Lugol's with that, as it helps kill bad bacteria.

> Actually, away from the sea, it's possible people used to get their iodine

> from the thyroid gland of animals.

>

> I recently saw a special on bears in Alaska, and they showed how the bears

> would catch Salmon, go for the brains, the fat back, and the eggs and then

> leave the rest for scavengers.

>

> They used to give people raw liver for a condition, but then eventually

> isolated the helfpul substance in it was Vitamin B12. I have a suspicion

> not that many people with B12 deficiency eat liver on a regular basis.

>

> Skipper

>

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__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

>From: <kennio@...>

>Community-wide outbreaks of “hamburger thyrotoxicosis” resulting from

>inadvertent consumption of

>beef contaminated with bovine thyroid gland have been previously reported.

>

> " Further questioning into the patient’s dietary history revealed that she

>lived on a farm with her

>husband and that every couple of years they slaughtered a cow from their

>herd, which was their

>main source of meat. Inquiries to the couple’s local butcher revealed that

>he was unaware of the

>prohibition against gullet trimming (a procedure whereby muscles from the

>bovine larynx are

>harvested) and had inadvertently been contaminating edible meat with

>thyroid tissue. "

Sounds like the butcher was giving people the worng dosage. Also shows if

one has their own animals they may be able to use it successfully.

Skipper

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[Guest guest]

Are they vegetarian or vegan? Those are two quite different things.

Vegetarians that eat eggs and/or dairy are getting some fat soluble

vitamins that vegans do not. I personally think that may make a big difference,

Irene

At 03:23 PM 9/19/2006, you wrote:

> >That's b/c muscle meat is not really good for you, but organ meats and/or

> >shellfish are imperative for good health. I have never met a healthy vegan.

>

>I haven't either, but haven't met many. However, Shania Twain is

>vegetarian. She looks perfectly healthy and quite energetic, and in good

>shape. Her husband also looks lean, energetic, and healthy (in addition to

>being homely. I'm assuming he's also vegetarian.)

>

>Bob Barker, also a vegetarian with good energy and isn't he 80 something

>now, and still good enough to do his show?

>

>If these two are not uncommon for vegetarians, then I think it can't be so

>bad.