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Re: Re: electrode depth

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That comes as a surprise to me. I'm not contradicting it because I don't

really know but I had been under the impression that the reason for low

frequency loss with an implant (I don't hear much below 200 HZ now) was that

the electrodes can't reach the lowest frequency hair cells and that they

were the deep ones.

Virg

The Med-el Opus 2 has 12 electrodes that extend the entire length deeply

into the cochlea..In natural hearing the deeper the hair cells the higher

pitch the noises that are sensed.

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I have low frequency loss, and it was explained to me (a while back) that the

reason I wouldn't benefit from one of the hybrid implants, is that my loss is in

the deep part of the cochlea. My hearing loss follows a different pattern than

most... High frequencies are at the outside, middle, then lows are in the inner

part.

From: Virg <jvtomlin@...>

Subject: Re: Re: electrode depth

Date: Monday, February 15, 2010, 10:13 PM

 

That comes as a surprise to me. I'm not contradicting it because I don't

really know but I had been under the impression that the reason for low

frequency loss with an implant (I don't hear much below 200 HZ now) was that

the electrodes can't reach the lowest frequency hair cells and that they

were the deep ones.

Virg

The Med-el Opus 2 has 12 electrodes that extend the entire length deeply

into the cochlea..In natural hearing the deeper the hair cells the higher

pitch the noises that are sensed.

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Med -el def goes the entire lenth of the cochlea .It has not been proven that it

helps more then other implant manufacturers but to me it makes sense and i do

hear high frequencies, low frequencies and middle frequencies. I am not an

expert so best to talk to your audiologist.

________________________________

From: Virg <jvtomlin@...>

Sent: Mon, February 15, 2010 5:13:06 PM

Subject: Re: Re: electrode depth

 

That comes as a surprise to me. I'm not contradicting it because I don't

really know but I had been under the impression that the reason for low

frequency loss with an implant (I don't hear much below 200 HZ now) was that

the electrodes can't reach the lowest frequency hair cells and that they

were the deep ones.

Virg

The Med-el Opus 2 has 12 electrodes that extend the entire length deeply

into the cochlea..In natural hearing the deeper the hair cells the higher

pitch the noises that are sensed.

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An audiogram would prove this, have you had one done?

Quote of the nanosecond. . .

Dogs love their friends and bite their enemies, quite unlike people, who are

incapable of pure love and always have to mix love and hate.

-- Sigmund Freud

& Dreamer Doll ke7nwn

E-mail-

rclark0276@...

Home Page-

http://webpages.charter.net/dog_guide/

Re: Re: electrode depth

Â

That comes as a surprise to me. I'm not contradicting it because I don't

really know but I had been under the impression that the reason for low

frequency loss with an implant (I don't hear much below 200 HZ now) was that

the electrodes can't reach the lowest frequency hair cells and that they

were the deep ones.

Virg

The Med-el Opus 2 has 12 electrodes that extend the entire length deeply

into the cochlea..In natural hearing the deeper the hair cells the higher

pitch the noises that are sensed.

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The short excerpt below from the link below seems to say that the low

frequencies are detected at the inner end of the cochlea. Virg

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080425151819.htm

" As a result, the sensory cells near the outer end of the cochlea detect

high-pitched sounds, like the notes of a piccolo, while those at the inner

end of the spiral detect lower-frequency sounds, like the booming of a bass

drum. "

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I have had 2 audiograms since my implant in Nov . I do not recall the exact

levels as i am not at home now and my results are there. My last tests were done

in early January and my implant was activated in early Dec. The audiologist was

surprised at how well I am doing at all frequencies . My hearing has def

improved since Jan. I am due to go back next month for another mapping and

hearing test.  However, I do not know what this would " prove " ..that  I can

hear at all frequencies. ?  Perhaps a person with another implant can also hear

at that level..there may be other factors involved. I believe to

" prove "   would require a number of cochlear implant users comparing and

contrasting the frequency level of various devices and  various electrode

depth. Unfortunately I am not aware of any scientific research  " proving " this.

I can only report what I have experienced and the conclusions I have drawn

from personal experience

________________________________

From: <rclark0276@...>

Sent: Mon, February 15, 2010 6:25:12 PM

Subject: Re: Re: electrode depth

 

An audiogram would prove this, have you had one done?

Quote of the nanosecond. . .

Dogs love their friends and bite their enemies, quite unlike people, who are

incapable of pure love and always have to mix love and hate.

-- Sigmund Freud

& Dreamer Doll ke7nwn

E-mail-

rclark0276charter (DOT) net

Home Page-

http://webpages. charter.net/ dog_guide/

Re: Re: electrode depth

Â

That comes as a surprise to me. I'm not contradicting it because I don't

really know but I had been under the impression that the reason for low

frequency loss with an implant (I don't hear much below 200 HZ now) was that

the electrodes can't reach the lowest frequency hair cells and that they

were the deep ones.

Virg

The Med-el Opus 2 has 12 electrodes that extend the entire length deeply

into the cochlea..In natural hearing the deeper the hair cells the higher

pitch the noises that are sensed.

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Oops I reversed it..Thanks Virg..

________________________________

From: Virg <jvtomlin@...>

Sent: Mon, February 15, 2010 7:27:09 PM

Subject: Re: Re: electrode depth

 

The short excerpt below from the link below seems to say that the low

frequencies are detected at the inner end of the cochlea. Virg

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080425151819.htm

" As a result, the sensory cells near the outer end of the cochlea detect

high-pitched sounds, like the notes of a piccolo, while those at the inner

end of the spiral detect lower-frequency sounds, like the booming of a bass

drum. "

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I have heard your last statement as well..

I don't know if this is accurate, but it was my understanding that an advantage

to Med El's long array is not so much that it goes deeper, but that the

individual electrode pairs are spaced more widely apart than in other implant

arrays, so there is not cross-stimulation of adjacent areas.

I believe my audiologist mentioned that to me as well but I am not positive of

the source. Once again we need user studies across all the implant technologies.

________________________________

From: lidagreg <lydia.gregoret@...>

Sent: Mon, February 15, 2010 8:08:40 PM

Subject: Re: electrode depth

 

Right. The cochlea is arranged " tonotopically " with the innermost region (inside

the coil) responding to the lowest pitches and the outermost regions (where the

" snail's " body would come out) responding to the highest pitches.

But if you don't have any sensory cells at all, and you are relying on a

cochlear implant to hear everything, I think you will only hear what the CI

delivers. If the CI is programmed to deliver only frequencies greater than 125

Hz (or 200 Hz or 250 Hz), you won't hear any pure tones lower, irrespective of

the location of the spot that is stimulated on the cochlea by the electrode

representing the lowest frequencies. (One could, in theory, map the lowest

pitches to a high frequency region of the cochlea, and still hear/perceive them

if that region was electrically stimulated. Would it sound low or high, though?

Who knows.)

I don't know if this is accurate, but it was my understanding that an advantage

to Med El's long array is not so much that it goes deeper, but that the

individual electrode pairs are spaced more widely apart than in other implant

arrays, so there is not cross-stimulation of adjacent areas.

Lydia

Mom of , age 13, bilateral Nucleus-24 internal CIs and Freedom processors

>

> The short excerpt below from the link below seems to say that the low

> frequencies are detected at the inner end of the cochlea. Virg

>

> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080425151819.htm

>

> " As a result, the sensory cells near the outer end of the cochlea detect

> high-pitched sounds, like the notes of a piccolo, while those at the inner

> end of the spiral detect lower-frequency sounds, like the booming of a bass

> drum. "

>

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An audiogram would only prove to you what your range is now with the

implant. No doubt most CI users would see similar results. Also that most

if not all would be able to hear down to like 20dB.

Quote of the nanosecond. . .

Borrow money from pessimists -- they don't expect it back.

--

& Dreamer Doll ke7nwn

E-mail-

rclark0276@...

Home Page-

http://webpages.charter.net/dog_guide/

Re: Re: electrode depth

Ã,

That comes as a surprise to me. I'm not contradicting it because I don't

really know but I had been under the impression that the reason for low

frequency loss with an implant (I don't hear much below 200 HZ now) was that

the electrodes can't reach the lowest frequency hair cells and that they

were the deep ones.

Virg

The Med-el Opus 2 has 12 electrodes that extend the entire length deeply

into the cochlea..In natural hearing the deeper the hair cells the higher

pitch the noises that are sensed.

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Virg, you are correct, the lower frequency cells are at the apex, or deeper

in the cochlea.

On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 5:13 PM, Virg <jvtomlin@...> wrote:

>

>

> That comes as a surprise to me. I'm not contradicting it because I don't

> really know but I had been under the impression that the reason for low

> frequency loss with an implant (I don't hear much below 200 HZ now) was

> that

> the electrodes can't reach the lowest frequency hair cells and that they

> were the deep ones.

>

> Virg

>

> The Med-el Opus 2 has 12 electrodes that extend the entire length deeply

> into the cochlea..In natural hearing the deeper the hair cells the higher

> pitch the noises that are sensed.

>

>

>

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FWIW, when I had an audiogram done on my CI ear, I was hearing sounds from 250

Hz to 6000 Hz at 20-25 dB.  I was totally deaf to sounds above 1500 Hz prior

to surgery, and had severe to profound hearing loss from 250 Hz to 1500 Hz. 

I have the Cochlear Americas Nucleus Freedom CI system.

It is my understanding that a typical audiogram will only test for sounds

between 250 Hz and 8000 Hz.

 

________________________________

From: Regina Marulli <rmarulli@...>

Sent: Mon, February 15, 2010 7:27:41 PM

Subject: Re: Re: electrode depth

 

I have had 2 audiograms since my implant in Nov . I do not recall the exact

levels as i am not at home now and my results are there. My last tests were done

in early January and my implant was activated in early Dec. The audiologist was

surprised at how well I am doing at all frequencies . My hearing has def

improved since Jan. I am due to go back next month for another mapping and

hearing test.  However, I do not know what this would " prove " ..that  I can

hear at all frequencies. ?  Perhaps a person with another implant can also hear

at that level..there may be other factors involved. I believe to

" prove "   would require a number of cochlear implant users comparing and

contrasting the frequency level of various devices and  various electrode

depth. Unfortunately I am not aware of any scientific research  " proving " this.

I can only report what I have experienced and the conclusions I have drawn

from personal experience

____________ _________ _________ __

From: <rclark0276charter (DOT) net>

groups (DOT) com

Sent: Mon, February 15, 2010 6:25:12 PM

Subject: Re: Re: electrode depth

 

An audiogram would prove this, have you had one done?

Quote of the nanosecond. . .

Dogs love their friends and bite their enemies, quite unlike people, who are

incapable of pure love and always have to mix love and hate.

-- Sigmund Freud

& Dreamer Doll ke7nwn

E-mail-

rclark0276charter (DOT) net

Home Page-

http://webpages. charter.net/ dog_guide/

Re: Re: electrode depth

Â

That comes as a surprise to me. I'm not contradicting it because I don't

really know but I had been under the impression that the reason for low

frequency loss with an implant (I don't hear much below 200 HZ now) was that

the electrodes can't reach the lowest frequency hair cells and that they

were the deep ones.

Virg

The Med-el Opus 2 has 12 electrodes that extend the entire length deeply

into the cochlea..In natural hearing the deeper the hair cells the higher

pitch the noises that are sensed.

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