Guest guest Posted December 27, 2007 Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 Just want to let everyone know what I am finding out about my hearing test and other people hearing test wearing CI. As I wrote several months ago, I got the CI in my worse ear, which started off very poorly with no hearing and a lot of mapping to gradually work it up to the voice range after 2 1/2 month or so. I wore a hearing aid in my left ear for my entire life and had speech discrimination ranging from 25% going down recently to 5%. I could not wear a hearing aid in my right ear and had no speech discrimination. After 2 1/2 month of wearing the CI, I could hear the jumbled voices but did not understand the voice or spoken words. When the 120 channels was switched on in my AB Harmony High-Resol after 2 1/2 month, I begin to hear and distinguish voice and spoken words. In my fifth month, my last test showed that I have 50% speech discrimination with my CI in my worst ear! The audio was very pleased as it was a lot of work to go from 0% to 50% in five months. She suspected that I will gradually improved to 60% to 70% at the one- year mark. I asked her about other people with similar bi-lateral hearing aid/CI with the CI in the worse ear. She basically said that I did well as compared with some of the others. With AB Harmony, they had various range with different clients going from 0% (some) to 25% (some) to 50% (some) to 70% (few) in speech discrimnation. I asked if it made any difference if it is Cochlear or AB High Resolution with 120 channels in understanding spoken words and variety of voice levels. She said that with me and several others that AB Harmony High Resolution may have worked better -- maybe a different of 10% to 20% better speech discrimination. She also said that with Cochlear - there may be still the same mixed results. She also said some of those people had some hearing and previous speech discrimination in their worst ear so there are variety of results using Cochlear. I know of five hard of hearing friends in KC area. Two had AB Harmony High Resolution in their worst ear and they have average to good hearing and understanding voice discrimination (I forgot to ask about % of speech discrimination). Two other HH guys had AB Harmony High Resolution in their best ear and are hearing at 80% to 90% speech discrimnation. One has a Cochlear in his best ear and is hearing at 70 to 80% speech discrimnation. I have one profound deaf oral speaking friend who had the AB High Resolution Harmony and he is understanding some spoken words from mostly men and some women. I have several profound deaf friends with Cochlear who has no speech discrimination. Interesting, I have one profound deaf oral speaking friend with Med- Al CI in both ears, and he has approximately 30% speech discrimnation with both CI after 4 months! With one Med-Al CI last year -- it was less than 5% to 10% speech discrimination. Results are different for everyone for every CI brands. Leonard Hall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2007 Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 -Thank you for writing. I have the Aurial CI from AB. It will be 2 years in September. I have been wondering if the Harmony is better, would it worth my time and money to upgrade. It weems you found some benfits. It gives me something to think about. Thanks -- In , " kcdeafguy " <kcdeafguy@...> wrote: > > Just want to let everyone know what I am finding out about my hearing > test and other people hearing test wearing CI. > > As I wrote several months ago, I got the CI in my worse ear, which > started off very poorly with no hearing and a lot of mapping to > gradually work it up to the voice range after 2 1/2 month or so. I > wore a hearing aid in my left ear for my entire life and had speech > discrimination ranging from 25% going down recently to 5%. I could > not wear a hearing aid in my right ear and had no speech > discrimination. After 2 1/2 month of wearing the CI, I could hear > the jumbled voices but did not understand the voice or spoken words. > > When the 120 channels was switched on in my AB Harmony High-Resol > after 2 1/2 month, I begin to hear and distinguish voice and spoken > words. In my fifth month, my last test showed that I have 50% speech > discrimination with my CI in my worst ear! The audio was very > pleased as it was a lot of work to go from 0% to 50% in five months. > She suspected that I will gradually improved to 60% to 70% at the one- > year mark. > > I asked her about other people with similar bi-lateral hearing aid/CI > with the CI in the worse ear. She basically said that I did well as > compared with some of the others. With AB Harmony, they had various > range with different clients going from 0% (some) to 25% (some) to > 50% (some) to 70% (few) in speech discrimnation. > > I asked if it made any difference if it is Cochlear or AB High > Resolution with 120 channels in understanding spoken words and > variety of voice levels. She said that with me and several others > that AB Harmony High Resolution may have worked better -- maybe a > different of 10% to 20% better speech discrimination. > > She also said that with Cochlear - there may be still the same mixed > results. She also said some of those people had some hearing and > previous speech discrimination in their worst ear so there are > variety of results using Cochlear. > > I know of five hard of hearing friends in KC area. Two had AB > Harmony High Resolution in their worst ear and they have average to > good hearing and understanding voice discrimination (I forgot to ask > about % of speech discrimination). Two other HH guys had AB > Harmony High Resolution in their best ear and are hearing at 80% to > 90% speech discrimnation. One has a Cochlear in his best ear and is > hearing at 70 to 80% speech discrimnation. > > I have one profound deaf oral speaking friend who had the AB High > Resolution Harmony and he is understanding some spoken words from > mostly men and some women. I have several profound deaf friends with > Cochlear who has no speech discrimination. > > Interesting, I have one profound deaf oral speaking friend with Med- > Al CI in both ears, and he has approximately 30% speech discrimnation > with both CI after 4 months! With one Med-Al CI last year -- it was > less than 5% to 10% speech discrimination. > > Results are different for everyone for every CI brands. > > Leonard Hall > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2007 Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 Hi , I gained no increase in speech understanding when I paid $850 to upgrade to the Harmony. However, speech is a bit more full and pleasant to me now, as is music. Music isn't great but I hear more individual instruments now. I don't regret paying that much for the upgrade. Virg > -Thank you for writing. I have the Aurial CI from AB. It will be 2 > years in September. I have been wondering if the Harmony is better, > would it worth my time and money to upgrade. It weems you found some > benfits. It gives me something to think about. Thanks > -- In , " kcdeafguy " <kcdeafguy@...> wrote: > > > > Just want to let everyone know what I am finding out about my > hearing > > test and other people hearing test wearing CI. > > > > As I wrote several months ago, I got the CI in my worse ear, which > > started off very poorly with no hearing and a lot of mapping to > > gradually work it up to the voice range after 2 1/2 month or so. I > > wore a hearing aid in my left ear for my entire life and had speech > > discrimination ranging from 25% going down recently to 5%. I could > > not wear a hearing aid in my right ear and had no speech > > discrimination. After 2 1/2 month of wearing the CI, I could hear > > the jumbled voices but did not understand the voice or spoken > words. > > > > When the 120 channels was switched on in my AB Harmony High-Resol > > after 2 1/2 month, I begin to hear and distinguish voice and spoken > > words. In my fifth month, my last test showed that I have 50% > speech > > discrimination with my CI in my worst ear! The audio was very > > pleased as it was a lot of work to go from 0% to 50% in five > months. > > She suspected that I will gradually improved to 60% to 70% at the > one- > > year mark. > > > > I asked her about other people with similar bi-lateral hearing > aid/CI > > with the CI in the worse ear. She basically said that I did well > as > > compared with some of the others. With AB Harmony, they had > various > > range with different clients going from 0% (some) to 25% (some) to > > 50% (some) to 70% (few) in speech discrimnation. > > > > I asked if it made any difference if it is Cochlear or AB High > > Resolution with 120 channels in understanding spoken words and > > variety of voice levels. She said that with me and several others > > that AB Harmony High Resolution may have worked better -- maybe a > > different of 10% to 20% better speech discrimination. > > > > She also said that with Cochlear - there may be still the same > mixed > > results. She also said some of those people had some hearing and > > previous speech discrimination in their worst ear so there are > > variety of results using Cochlear. > > > > I know of five hard of hearing friends in KC area. Two had AB > > Harmony High Resolution in their worst ear and they have average to > > good hearing and understanding voice discrimination (I forgot to > ask > > about % of speech discrimination). Two other HH guys had AB > > Harmony High Resolution in their best ear and are hearing at 80% to > > 90% speech discrimnation. One has a Cochlear in his best ear and > is > > hearing at 70 to 80% speech discrimnation. > > > > I have one profound deaf oral speaking friend who had the AB High > > Resolution Harmony and he is understanding some spoken words from > > mostly men and some women. I have several profound deaf friends > with > > Cochlear who has no speech discrimination. > > > > Interesting, I have one profound deaf oral speaking friend with Med- > > Al CI in both ears, and he has approximately 30% speech > discrimnation > > with both CI after 4 months! With one Med-Al CI last year -- it > was > > less than 5% to 10% speech discrimination. > > > > Results are different for everyone for every CI brands. > > > > Leonard Hall > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 Thanks Virg How about cell phones. Were you able to understand any better? Thanks - > > > > > > Just want to let everyone know what I am finding out about my > > hearing > > > test and other people hearing test wearing CI. > > > > > > As I wrote several months ago, I got the CI in my worse ear, which > > > started off very poorly with no hearing and a lot of mapping to > > > gradually work it up to the voice range after 2 1/2 month or so. > I > > > wore a hearing aid in my left ear for my entire life and had > speech > > > discrimination ranging from 25% going down recently to 5%. I > could > > > not wear a hearing aid in my right ear and had no speech > > > discrimination. After 2 1/2 month of wearing the CI, I could > hear > > > the jumbled voices but did not understand the voice or spoken > > words. > > > > > > When the 120 channels was switched on in my AB Harmony High- Resol > > > after 2 1/2 month, I begin to hear and distinguish voice and > spoken > > > words. In my fifth month, my last test showed that I have 50% > > speech > > > discrimination with my CI in my worst ear! The audio was very > > > pleased as it was a lot of work to go from 0% to 50% in five > > months. > > > She suspected that I will gradually improved to 60% to 70% at the > > one- > > > year mark. > > > > > > I asked her about other people with similar bi-lateral hearing > > aid/CI > > > with the CI in the worse ear. She basically said that I did well > > as > > > compared with some of the others. With AB Harmony, they had > > various > > > range with different clients going from 0% (some) to 25% (some) to > > > 50% (some) to 70% (few) in speech discrimnation. > > > > > > I asked if it made any difference if it is Cochlear or AB High > > > Resolution with 120 channels in understanding spoken words and > > > variety of voice levels. She said that with me and several others > > > that AB Harmony High Resolution may have worked better -- maybe a > > > different of 10% to 20% better speech discrimination. > > > > > > She also said that with Cochlear - there may be still the same > > mixed > > > results. She also said some of those people had some hearing and > > > previous speech discrimination in their worst ear so there are > > > variety of results using Cochlear. > > > > > > I know of five hard of hearing friends in KC area. Two had AB > > > Harmony High Resolution in their worst ear and they have average > to > > > good hearing and understanding voice discrimination (I forgot to > > ask > > > about % of speech discrimination). Two other HH guys had AB > > > Harmony High Resolution in their best ear and are hearing at 80% > to > > > 90% speech discrimnation. One has a Cochlear in his best ear and > > is > > > hearing at 70 to 80% speech discrimnation. > > > > > > I have one profound deaf oral speaking friend who had the AB High > > > Resolution Harmony and he is understanding some spoken words from > > > mostly men and some women. I have several profound deaf friends > > with > > > Cochlear who has no speech discrimination. > > > > > > Interesting, I have one profound deaf oral speaking friend with > Med- > > > Al CI in both ears, and he has approximately 30% speech > > discrimnation > > > with both CI after 4 months! With one Med-Al CI last year -- it > > was > > > less than 5% to 10% speech discrimination. > > > > > > Results are different for everyone for every CI brands. > > > > > > Leonard Hall > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 Hi Leonard, I saw your post and wanted to tell you how happy I am reading about the progress you are making with your CI. You will continue to improve with time and that is something to look forward to. I am an AB bilateral user also. I wore a hearing aid in each ear for over 20 years until there were no more hearing aids to help me. I received my first CI 15 months ago and started with AB's Auria. After a few months I switched to Harmony and the sound was excellent. I had my second CI surgery and activated in August of this year with Harmony. This was in an ear that had no sound stimulation for over a year. I stopped wearing a hearing aid in that ear because it did not help. At activation I heard right away and voices sounded normal to me. Quite a moment and to hear with two ears was amazing. I just had hearing tests to see how I am doing. I am hearing 94% with both ears. With my newest implant I am actually hearing better than at the same 3 month evaluation compared to my first CI. My second CI surgery was in my worst ear. It was the first time I have had a hearing test and walked out of the audiologists office with a big smile. For so many years hearing tests were always discouraging because of the deterioration of my hearing. I can hear very well in a noisy restaurant or any other noisy situation. I also have a cell phone and for the first time feel " up to date " with the amazing technology available. Whatever brand someone chooses is the right one for them. All of us want each person to be successful and hear. Thanks for your post and be encouraged about what your hearing. It gets better with time and practice and takes patience. Bilateral/Harmony > > > > When the 120 channels was switched on in my AB Harmony High-Resol > after 2 1/2 month, I begin to hear and distinguish voice and spoken > words. In my fifth month, my last test showed that I have 50% speech > discrimination with my CI in my worst ear! The audio was very > pleased as it was a lot of work to go from 0% to 50% in five months. > She suspected that I will gradually improved to 60% to 70% at the one- > year mark. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 Sorry, . I've never used a cell phone. I went so long without using a phone I actually seem to be afraid of it. I have a CapTel phone but I only use it when I just really need to. It doesn't have very good audio but at least I can be sure of " hearing " correctly via the captions. I suppose I need to force myself to practice with a " good " phone. Maybe I will but I don't feel much inclination to do that yet. Virg > Thanks Virg > > How about cell phones. Were you able to understand any better? > > Thanks - > > > > > > > > > > Just want to let everyone know what I am finding out about my > > > hearing > > > > test and other people hearing test wearing CI. > > > > > > > > As I wrote several months ago, I got the CI in my worse ear, > which > > > > started off very poorly with no hearing and a lot of mapping to > > > > gradually work it up to the voice range after 2 1/2 month or so. > > I > > > > wore a hearing aid in my left ear for my entire life and had > > speech > > > > discrimination ranging from 25% going down recently to 5%. I > > could > > > > not wear a hearing aid in my right ear and had no speech > > > > discrimination. After 2 1/2 month of wearing the CI, I could > > hear > > > > the jumbled voices but did not understand the voice or spoken > > > words. > > > > > > > > When the 120 channels was switched on in my AB Harmony High- > Resol > > > > after 2 1/2 month, I begin to hear and distinguish voice and > > spoken > > > > words. In my fifth month, my last test showed that I have 50% > > > speech > > > > discrimination with my CI in my worst ear! The audio was very > > > > pleased as it was a lot of work to go from 0% to 50% in five > > > months. > > > > She suspected that I will gradually improved to 60% to 70% at > the > > > one- > > > > year mark. > > > > > > > > I asked her about other people with similar bi-lateral hearing > > > aid/CI > > > > with the CI in the worse ear. She basically said that I did > well > > > as > > > > compared with some of the others. With AB Harmony, they had > > > various > > > > range with different clients going from 0% (some) to 25% (some) > to > > > > 50% (some) to 70% (few) in speech discrimnation. > > > > > > > > I asked if it made any difference if it is Cochlear or AB High > > > > Resolution with 120 channels in understanding spoken words and > > > > variety of voice levels. She said that with me and several > others > > > > that AB Harmony High Resolution may have worked better -- maybe > a > > > > different of 10% to 20% better speech discrimination. > > > > > > > > She also said that with Cochlear - there may be still the same > > > mixed > > > > results. She also said some of those people had some hearing > and > > > > previous speech discrimination in their worst ear so there are > > > > variety of results using Cochlear. > > > > > > > > I know of five hard of hearing friends in KC area. Two had AB > > > > Harmony High Resolution in their worst ear and they have average > > to > > > > good hearing and understanding voice discrimination (I forgot to > > > ask > > > > about % of speech discrimination). Two other HH guys had AB > > > > Harmony High Resolution in their best ear and are hearing at 80% > > to > > > > 90% speech discrimnation. One has a Cochlear in his best ear > and > > > is > > > > hearing at 70 to 80% speech discrimnation. > > > > > > > > I have one profound deaf oral speaking friend who had the AB > High > > > > Resolution Harmony and he is understanding some spoken words > from > > > > mostly men and some women. I have several profound deaf friends > > > with > > > > Cochlear who has no speech discrimination. > > > > > > > > Interesting, I have one profound deaf oral speaking friend with > > Med- > > > > Al CI in both ears, and he has approximately 30% speech > > > discrimnation > > > > with both CI after 4 months! With one Med-Al CI last year -- it > > > was > > > > less than 5% to 10% speech discrimination. > > > > > > > > Results are different for everyone for every CI brands. > > > > > > > > Leonard Hall > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 > I just had hearing tests to see how I am doing. I am hearing 94% with > both ears. With my newest implant I am actually hearing better than > at the same 3 month evaluation compared to my first CI. Wow, that's great progress! Can I ask what test the 94% was for? Was that open set single words with no lip reading? Or was it sentences? I see a lot of percentages thrown around and I'm never quite sure what they are percentages *of*. Thanks! -tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 Actually, Leonard, Results vary from individual to individual with the SAME cochlear implant brand as well. That's why it's important NOT to compare yourself with others. Because if you've never heard anything, then 25% discrimination is huge. If you have had hearing all your life and lost it suddenly, then 25% is not what you are looking for. This is the type of posting that causes brand wars. We all know that all 3 implant types work. What works for you may not be what works for someone else, or what is convenient for someone else to use. So bear in mind that you could have had the same results with a different implant. No way to know, because once you got what you have, then that was the only one to use. If you understand my meaning. But everyone varies with implants, even people who are bilateral often hear better in one ear than the other. So comparisons by brand are a waste of time. She also said that with Cochlear - there may be still the same mixed results. She also said some of those people had some hearing and previous speech discrimination in their worst ear so there are variety of results using Cochlear. I know of five hard of hearing friends in KC area. Two had AB Harmony High Resolution in their worst ear and they have average to good hearing and understanding voice discrimination (I forgot to ask about % of speech discrimination). Two other HH guys had AB Harmony High Resolution in their best ear and are hearing at 80% to 90% speech discrimnation. One has a Cochlear in his best ear and is hearing at 70 to 80% speech discrimnation. I have one profound deaf oral speaking friend who had the AB High Resolution Harmony and he is understanding some spoken words from mostly men and some women. I have several profound deaf friends with Cochlear who has no speech discrimination. Interesting, I have one profound deaf oral speaking friend with Med- Al CI in both ears, and he has approximately 30% speech discrimnation with both CI after 4 months! With one Med-Al CI last year -- it was less than 5% to 10% speech discrimination. Results are different for everyone for every CI brands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 Virg, I would encourage you try a phone call with someone familiar with your hearing situation. I felt the same way, the phone really scared me. But I dove in and now feel very comfortable on the phone. I use a neck loop on my home phone and a hatis headset for my cell phone. I received the neck loop from the phone company as a loaner and didn't have to purchase it. I, too, used a CapTel phone previously and still have it, just in case! So far I've only used it one time since being turned on in Oct.'07. While I still sometimes get a little nervous to use the phone with strangers, I figure that I shouldn't deprive myself of this wonderful gift I've been give, so I just go for it! Nina Re: Re: 5th Month Test on AB in worst ear and other people > Sorry, . I've never used a cell phone. I went so long without > using a phone I actually seem to be afraid of it. I have a CapTel > phone but I only use it when I just really need to. It doesn't have > very good audio but at least I can be sure of " hearing " correctly via > the captions. > > I suppose I need to force myself to practice with a " good " phone. > Maybe I will but I don't feel much inclination to do that yet. > > Virg > >> Thanks Virg >> >> How about cell phones. Were you able to understand any better? >> >> Thanks - >> >> >> > > > >> > > > Just want to let everyone know what I am finding out about my >> > > hearing >> > > > test and other people hearing test wearing CI. >> > > > >> > > > As I wrote several months ago, I got the CI in my worse ear, >> which >> > > > started off very poorly with no hearing and a lot of mapping > to >> > > > gradually work it up to the voice range after 2 1/2 month or > so. >> > I >> > > > wore a hearing aid in my left ear for my entire life and had >> > speech >> > > > discrimination ranging from 25% going down recently to 5%. I >> > could >> > > > not wear a hearing aid in my right ear and had no speech >> > > > discrimination. After 2 1/2 month of wearing the CI, I could >> > hear >> > > > the jumbled voices but did not understand the voice or spoken >> > > words. >> > > > >> > > > When the 120 channels was switched on in my AB Harmony High- >> Resol >> > > > after 2 1/2 month, I begin to hear and distinguish voice and >> > spoken >> > > > words. In my fifth month, my last test showed that I have 50% >> > > speech >> > > > discrimination with my CI in my worst ear! The audio was > very >> > > > pleased as it was a lot of work to go from 0% to 50% in five >> > > months. >> > > > She suspected that I will gradually improved to 60% to 70% at >> the >> > > one- >> > > > year mark. >> > > > >> > > > I asked her about other people with similar bi-lateral hearing >> > > aid/CI >> > > > with the CI in the worse ear. She basically said that I did >> well >> > > as >> > > > compared with some of the others. With AB Harmony, they had >> > > various >> > > > range with different clients going from 0% (some) to 25% > (some) >> to >> > > > 50% (some) to 70% (few) in speech discrimnation. >> > > > >> > > > I asked if it made any difference if it is Cochlear or AB High >> > > > Resolution with 120 channels in understanding spoken words and >> > > > variety of voice levels. She said that with me and several >> others >> > > > that AB Harmony High Resolution may have worked better -- > maybe >> a >> > > > different of 10% to 20% better speech discrimination. >> > > > >> > > > She also said that with Cochlear - there may be still the same >> > > mixed >> > > > results. She also said some of those people had some hearing >> and >> > > > previous speech discrimination in their worst ear so there are >> > > > variety of results using Cochlear. >> > > > >> > > > I know of five hard of hearing friends in KC area. Two had AB >> > > > Harmony High Resolution in their worst ear and they have > average >> > to >> > > > good hearing and understanding voice discrimination (I forgot > to >> > > ask >> > > > about % of speech discrimination). Two other HH guys had AB >> > > > Harmony High Resolution in their best ear and are hearing at > 80% >> > to >> > > > 90% speech discrimnation. One has a Cochlear in his best ear >> and >> > > is >> > > > hearing at 70 to 80% speech discrimnation. >> > > > >> > > > I have one profound deaf oral speaking friend who had the AB >> High >> > > > Resolution Harmony and he is understanding some spoken words >> from >> > > > mostly men and some women. I have several profound deaf > friends >> > > with >> > > > Cochlear who has no speech discrimination. >> > > > >> > > > Interesting, I have one profound deaf oral speaking friend > with >> > Med- >> > > > Al CI in both ears, and he has approximately 30% speech >> > > discrimnation >> > > > with both CI after 4 months! With one Med-Al CI last year -- > it >> > > was >> > > > less than 5% to 10% speech discrimination. >> > > > >> > > > Results are different for everyone for every CI brands. >> > > > >> > > > Leonard Hall >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 -Hi Tom, The testing was " in the booth " not looking at anything but the wall and hearing with my CI's. No lip reading or facial expressions to look at. I actually got all the single words said. When it came to the long sentences that were to be repeated I was able to repeat them except for one long sentence that was something like, " The girl decided to paint and chose to paint the white wall. " The words " white wall " I missed and perhaps that was because I was trying to hear and also make sense of the sentence....somehow I was thinking she would be painting something else! ha What was so encouraging for me was that I hear so much better with bilateral hearing....there is no doubt about that after the testing. Both my ears tested the same prior to getting my first CI so it was a toss up which ear to pick for surgery. > > Wow, that's great progress! Can I ask what test the 94% was for? > Was that open set single words with no lip reading? Or was it sentences? > > I see a lot of percentages thrown around and I'm never quite sure > what they are percentages *of*. > > Thanks! > > -tom > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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